CAP Buff 5 - Part 2 - Kitsunoh Buff Discussion

[dex]

WIP

+18 Spe
+20 HP
+8 Atk
+Regenerator
-Iron Fist

probably more complicated than only giving it a shiny new ability or stat boost.

Ok but what about both tho

Speed for +1 Dragonite, HP for Landorus-T Earthquake, and Attack to OHKO Iron Boulder after rocks. Regenerator gives Kitsunoh the niche it so desperately desires while playing on some its good qualities. Kitsunoh has a great typing and a wide, wide movepool. Regenerator frees Kitsunoh to run any number of support/coverage moves, as Tornadus-T has done in the past. This allows for Kitsunoh to become the ultimate utility tool, spamming Knock Off and U-turn, Strength Sap and Will-O-Wisp, Shadow Strike and its coverage moves to simply force progress onto the opponent. This buff is also targeted at letting Kitsunoh use any number of items with great success. Boots become solid on it, as they are with many regen users, but so too does Cloak, Assault Vest, Helmet, and others. I do believe that this buff package the best way to differentiate it from its competition, and I think Kitsunoh, flatly, needs the help.

 

[SDK03]

Stat Buffs:
+15 Spe
+10 Def
+10 SpD
- 20 SpA
Ability Buffs:
+ Tough Claws
- Iron Fist
Movepool Buffs:
+ Encore
+ Bulk Up
+ Drain Punch

Kitsunoh’s typing and massive (but also useful, not just filler) movepool are already give Kitsunoh a good base to work off of when thinking of buffs, but the parts that stand out to me the most are how it has options like Close Combat and Low Kick that allow it to threaten the 4 major Dark types of OU/CAP (Kingambit, Samurott-H, Ting-Lu and Darkrai) more than Dragapult or Gholdengo currently do. It also carries Strength Sap and Defog as other unique traits in its kit.

This buff package I put together helps to remedy the major issues with Kitsunoh in its middling statline and meh ability selection. Statwise, 125 Speed helps it to outspeed Cresceidon and speed-tie Darkrai and Weavile while handily outspeeding all of the other <=120 attackers such as Ogerpon, Iron Valiant and Serperior. +10 to both defensive stats gives it that little bit of extra bulk it needs to keep itself alive longer throughout battles. -20 SpA to balance the BST out and because it really has no use for its Special Attack stat anyways. Ability-wise, Tough Claws gives Kitsunoh the extra oomph it needs on its contact moves (mainly Close Combat, Shadow Strike, Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch and its other coverage) to secure KOs and 2HKOs on the numerous Darks of the tier and to cleanly revenge-kill Ogerpon/Non-Booster Valiant nicely. For its movepool, Encore gives it an effective way to stifle Sucker Punch / Thunderclap spammers along with fatter teams it can’t just outright break, Bulk Up serves as a boosting option that gives Kitsunoh the unique quality of being a possible wincon against slower teams and Drain Punch allows it to stay on the field for longer while synchronizing well with Bulk Up.

 

[Brigtel]

Final Submission #1

+3 HP
+7 Atk
+7 Spe
+Levitate
-Poltergeist

I agree with Spoo's post about Kitsunoh needing a strong vision for success, something that enables it to be good on a more fundamental level, and to me levitate+stat buffs is the way to go. I think that a powerful defensive ability that changes how kitsunoh is able to be used defensively is the best way to enable Kitsunoh's ability to spam utility moves.

Kitsunoh's typing is in theory really good, but unlike gholdengo it cannot use it in the same way as a fast, less bulky, less threatening pokemon. Levitate allows it to do in gen 9 what it always has done: utilize its unique immunities and resistances as an opportunity to come in on more predictable moves, rather than pure bulk, and apply pressure from there using speed and utility. There are obvious examples like coming in on Landorus, Equilibra, Gliscor, ect... Flying immunity + Ghost/Steel typing is nothing new, as we have seen with Balloon Gholdengo (and Aegislash), but Kitsunoh will be uniquely consistent with it. Unique immunities will differentiate it from Dragapult, focusing on Speed and access to more immediate utility like Will o Wisp, Knock Off and Strength Sap will differentiate it from Gholdengo.

The speed allows it to barely outspeed Iron Valliant, as well as Serperior, while leaving it vulnerable to the fast dark types like Roaring Moon, Meowscarada, ect... as well as Cinderace, who seems like a very effective answer. More importantly this means Kit no longer has to speed tie with other base 110 speeds, Ogerpon comes to mind.
+7 Attack isn't to hit a particular benchmark, but more to allow kitsunoh to be more flexible with its EVs and not have to go full attack to hope to deal any damage with its offensive moves from 103 attack.
Taking into account Brambane's suggestion, I do think some small amount of additional bulk could be helpful since Kitsunoh might not always run an offensive move for consistent damage, but it should stay limited. +3HP Seems like a reasonable benchmark, allowing max HP Kitsunoh to never be 2HKOed by 0 attack Zamazenta's Crunch, and overall still allowing Kitsunoh flexibility with EVs while slightly increasing bulk to further enable its utility spam.

Poltergeist is a really awkward move and difficult to balance around. Any offensive boost we might want to give to Kitsunoh would force us to worry about it suddenly using Tera Ghost to KO everything. I think if we're significantly buffing attack, it should go.

Levitate does free up the item slot a lot! Leftovers is the obvious choice, but Covert Cloak would also become way more consistent, maybe even Rocky Helmet or resist berries could make an appearance.
While this buff might be on the strong side, especially considering how good Strength Sap is in the interactions that Levitate enables, it is probably better to aim for a higher power level, especially since it could be rebalanced in review if it turns out too strong. Kitsunoh still suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome and low offensive power, so I think it will be alright.

Example Sets

Kitsunoh @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 140 HP / 116 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Strike
- Close Combat
- Will-o-Wisp
- Defog

Kitsunoh @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Night Shade
- Will-o-Wisp
- Strength Sap
- U-turn

 

[Scepticskep]

WIP

+ 16 Spe
+ 20 HP
+ Encore
+ Perish Body
- Iron Fist

The main vision of this change is to turn Kitsunoh into a significant disruptive force that prioritizes shutting down the opponent's offensive pressure and providing opportunities for allies to switch in. 16 Speed allows it to outspeed Cresceidon, Darkrai, and Weavile without scarf which allows it to switch in and U-Turn/Encore/other utility without reliance on Scarf. 20 HP provides it with a better defensive profile to against threats like Gholdengo and Pult or the various Ground types prevalent in the meta. Encore is possibly the best move Kitsunoh could receive to fit this disruptive pressure, and not just because of its ass. Encore would shine with this buff to Kitsunoh's speed and Kitsunoh's great defensive typing, allowing it to take advantage of its immunities by locking opponents into non-damaging attacks or set-up moves, which would likely force a switch out from the opponent. Once an opponent is encored, Kitsunoh will have an opportunity to clear hazards, wittle opponents down, or scare them out with Shadow Strike.

Perish Body is the most significant change I'll suggest so I'll give it its own paragraph. Perish Body is a very unique ability that was never run due to Cursola's pitiful defense. With a buff to Kitsunoh's HP and an already higher Def stat than Cursola, Kitsunoh can take advantage of this very disruptive ability. Once an opponent makes contact with Kitsunoh, including with the highly spammable Knock Off, the opponent is either forced to switch out or give up their offensive pressure. If it lives, it can easily U-turn out to forgo the Perish Count. Threats like Roaring Moon, Kingambit, and Tusk are forced into using Dark/Ground contact moves due to Kitsunoh's immunities, and the Perish Count will be placed even if Kitsunoh dies, relieving the offensive pressure on Kitsunoh's allies post-mortem. Kitsunoh has run Perish Song before, and this ability change will provide Kitsunoh with the same utility without wasting a turn.

Perish Body solves multiple problems for Kitsunoh: It allows it to punish Knock Off spam, gives it a strong defensive utility without turning it into a physical wall, and disrupts opponents in a way unique to itself. In combination with Encore and a buff to its Speed, Kitsunoh becomes a disruptive scout that forces switches and provides opportunities for the rest of the team.

 

[Steam Buns]

Final Sub 1

+10 Speed
+10 Attack
+Intimidate

edited this first wip into a diff idea since my other one is the same.

As this process has gone on I've started to like intimidate more and more to the point that I like it almost as much as tough claws because it really just works. will try to add onto this more later but just wanted to get it out there first.

 

[Taka]

i have spent many tireless nights discussing this topic with individuals heavily involved in CAP such as spoo D2TheW sealoo seth Earthflax and here are my suggestions.

Suggestion 1:

Stat Change:
+16 Spe
+20 HP
Movepool Buff:
+ Toxic
Ability Buff:
+Corrosion
- Iron Fist

Set:
Kitsunoh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Corrosion
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Strike
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Strength Sap / Defog / Knock Off


Speed for Weavile and Darkrai, gives it the unique role as a breaker through Knock Turn Toxic sets, still acting as a scout with access to Strength Sap. Bulk gives it more chances to spread toxic / hard switch in -> strength sap on neutral hits like Ogerpon / Caribolt while being able to take on breakers like Miasmaw / Rilla much better.

Suggestion 2:

Stat Change:
+7 Spe
-5 Atk
-15 SpD
Ability Buff:
+ Fluffy
- Iron Fist

Set:
Kitsunoh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Strike
- U-turn
- Roar / Defog
- Strength Sap / Defog / Knock Off


Outspeeds Iron Valiant, and still cannot check all physical attackers (like Hemo / booster SD mons / NGas mons like Miasmaw / faster mons and darks), but can pivot into stuff like Gliscor + Tusk and sap on them or Roar them out.

Suggestion 3:

Stat Change:
+21 HP
+20 Def
+1 Spe
Ability Buff:
+ Stamina
- Iron Fist
Movepool Buff:
+ Body Press


Set:
Kitsunoh @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Strike
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Strength Sap

Outspeeds base 110s like Ogerpon / Moth, effectively has no ability outside of 3rd stab in steel moves to act like old Kitsunoh, can perform pivot BPress sets or Iron Press sets now.

Suggestion 4:

Stat Change:
+17 Atk
-5 Def
-5 SpD
+12 Spe
Ability Buff:
+ Serene Grace
Movepool Buff:
- Poltergeist

Set:
Kitsunoh @ Choice Band
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Strike
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Close Combat

Just has access to 100% Def drop Shadow Strike + Jirachi style Iron Head as a minor buff. Slower than crescei / darkrai / weav. acts as a breaker that ignores venomicon stamina boosts.


Suggestion 5:

Stat Change:
+40 HP
+12 Spe
Movepool Buff:
- Parting Shot

Set:
Kitsunoh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Frisk
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Strike
- Parting Shot
- Wish
- Protect

wish passer w pshot high HP

 

[earthflax]

get a job man holy moly

 

[MC Squared]

Suggestion 3:

Typing Change:
Ghost / Fighting
Stat Change:
+21 HP
+20 Def
+1 Spe
Ability Buff:
+ Steelworker
- Iron Fist
Movepool Buff:
+ Body Press

Suggestion 5:

Typing Change:
Ghost / Fighting
Ability Buff:
+ Simple
- Iron Fist
Movepool Buff:
+ Power-Up Punch
- Hone Claws
- Meteor Mash
- Iron Defense
- Curse

Power-Up Punch acting as "pseudo" SD stab attack. Nothing else changed but mon is stronger overall.

Ability Buff:
+ 9 Nine Lives (immune to all attacks on switch in, does nothing otherwise).

There's some glaring issues with some of your suggestions, such as:

• Custom abilities are not allowed
• Power-Up Punch is a scrapped move in Gen 9
• Typing changes are not allowed

 

[quziel]

Final Sub 1

+35 Speed
- 5 SpA
+Magician
-Iron Fist

Let me lay out my vision here. You are Kitsunoh, a Steel/Ghost type. You equip the wonderful item known as Air Balloon letting you now swap into Pokemon such as Equilibra with relatively low risk. You eventually get hit by a Doom Desire, which pops your Air Balloon leaving you itemless, destitute, and mocked by fellow CAPs such as Venomicon, who still is holding their Heavy-Duty Boots. You then click the move U-turn, and Magician activates, stealing their Boots, letting you walk away with a fresh new pair of Timbs, while they are sadly shoeless, standing in the rain with only socks on. This is my vision, and this is why I think giving Kitsunoh Magician instead of Iron Fist makes sense.

However Magician is not enough to make Kitsunoh viable. There must be additional ingredients within the pot that we are making our CAP soup in.A second change is 35 speed, ensuring that you can outrun Dragapult, Darkrai, Weavile, and some other slower mons that are surely less cool and therefore not worth mentioning.

Here is a sample set:
Kitsunoh @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Strike
- U-turn / Super Fang
- Will-O-Wisp / Strength Sap
- Defog / Strength Sap

 

[Da Pizza Man]

WIP

+ Rage Fist
+ 8 HP
+ 8 Attack
+ 1 Speed
- Strength Sap
- Pain Split
- Wish

 

[Brambane]

WIP

+25 HP
+9 Attack
+16 Speed
+Trace
-Poltergeist

126 is a strong Speed benchmark in this metagame, especially since Stratagem has been trending downwards. The extra HP makes a lot of sense for disrupting Zamazenta's gameplan. Trace is very niche but impactful when it activates, and actually really fits Kitsunoh's scouting motif, but it is a situational ability by design. A lot of games Trace is going to be less impactful, which is why the +9 Attack feels especially relevant for this ability. In games where Trace doesn't have great targets, Kitsunoh is going to need more power in its attacks to pressure the opponent and force switches beyond just its utility moves. For example, considering Shadow Strike's Defense drop chance, the new invested 112 Attack has a much more favorable chance to 2HKO Chuggalong and Earthquake will straight up deny Clangorous Soul with a minimum roll of 74%. I could see an attacker set doing well, albeit difficult to fit both recovery, status, and U-turn.

W.I.P

+ 17 Atk
+10 Spe
+ 10 HP
+ 5 Def
+ 10 SpDef
+ Encore
+ Infiltrator

Rather than hitting a superior Speed benchmark, focuses on stronger all around stat buffs. Infiltrator is extremely niche, which is why I am okay with the stat increase on this package going for a bit of everything. Encore is a notable addition that is notoriously powerful this generation, considering Kitsunoh's immunities (Toxic, Body Press, Circle Throw, Rapid Spin, Sludge Bomb, Thunder Wave with Limber, Air Balloon synergy) I could see it really putting pressure on common Pokemon with it. While Poltergeist is used in the calc, Shadow Strike -> Close Combat has a strong chance to take out Equilibra and Encore pressures defensive Pokemon trying to stall out the damage with recovery loops while their Defense gets dropped. I think the Speed tier may leave Kitsunoh vulnerable in the builder to a lot of threats that something like Dragapult can skirt around and this set really can't fit all the moves it wants, so I need to think a lot about this buff group.

WIP

+18 Spe
+20 HP
+8 Atk
+Regenerator
-Iron Fist

Regenerator fixes one of Kitsunoh's biggest issues; you don't have moveslots to really fit recovery. Strength Sap and Wish are good moves but this isn't Arghonaut who has the perfect four moves. Kitsunoh has a lot of gaps it needs to fill with moves and Regenerator alleviates that. 128 is great Speed, the HP boost creates more opportunities to switch in. I will have to run some calcs, but I think this buff package could look for even more Attack or a boost to its defenses. While Regenerator is a massive boon, there are plenty of Regenerator Pokemon that don't get used because they are either outclassed or not bulky/strong enough to keep up in the standard format. I could see a greater stat boost for this package.

Stat Buffs:
+15 Spe
+10 Def
+10 SpD
- 20 SpA
Ability Buffs:
+ Tough Claws
- Iron Fist
Movepool Buffs:
+ Encore
+ Bulk Up
+ Drain Punch

I don't think set-up sweeper is in Kitsunoh's wheelhouse, so I would cut out Bulk Up and Drain Punch. The rest of the package seems fine. 125 Speed is one ahead of Cresceidon, relevant since that is one of the Pokemon you want to Encore, especially if you catch Thunder Wave with the Limber set. Tough Claws is one of the larger power boosts you can give Kitsunoh, packing more power than even a 120 Attack buff. As such, this change really is more bulk, more Speed, Encore, and more power at the cost of an additional switch-in opportunity and move to Encore.

WIP

+10 Atk
+7 Spe
+Levitate
-Poltergeist

Levitate opens up your item slot a LOT; you don't need Balloon or Boots, which is massive improvement. Also makes Kitsunoh an actually useable defensive answer to non-Knock Off Gliscor, which is a massive niche. It can Defog Spikes away, pressure it with Shadow Strike defense drops, etc. It is also a good answer to Equilibra. The smaller stat change on this package is well-balanced with the power of this ability, but I wonder if you want +10 Attack or more HP/defense? Kitsunoh already gets Night Shade for consistent damage, perhaps with the defensive prowess on Levitate you lean in more on just compressing damage into that single moveslot to fit more utility.

WIP

+ 16 Spe
+ 20 HP
+ Encore
+ Perish Body
- Iron Fist

Imo the most cracked of the Encore packages so far, 126 Speed, large HP boost, and the wildly unexplored space of Perish Body. Limber + Encore is cool when you outspeed Cresceidon. Perish Body is such uncharted territory, I am going to have to really think about it. As it stands, the stat increase plus Encore is a good buff.

WIP

+10 Speed
+10 Attack
+ Tough Claws

This Kitsunoh hits you harder. How hard? Well, if you go for Spell Tag, you have a chance to 2HKO Libra with Shadow Strike without the Defense drop. This makes Shadow Strike extremely clickable in most scenarios. This package redirects Kitsunoh into a more all-out attacking roll, that maybe can fit in one utility to take advantage of its ability to pressure the opponent with immediate damage.

i have spent many tireless nights

I ask you pick one and focus on that for now. My suggestion would be Serene Grace, since that is some gnarly shit.

WIP

+20 Speed
+7 Defense
+Magician
-Iron Fist

Honestly could use a lot more stats, either Attack or even way more Speed. Magician is cool and makes it so maybe you don't need Knock Off as much, but its not a tremendously strong ability and your stat increase could be more generous. I think the faster your U-turn, the stronger your Magician to force switch or get your item snatched.

WIP

+Rage Fist
+8 HP
+8 Attack
+1 Speed

If you -Strength Sap and -Wish, I will actually consider this. Rage Fist is cool, but getting caught in a Strength Sap cycle versus a Rage Fist user sounds like watching a bicycle run over ducklings and a similar situation with Wish. The idea of a non-boosting Rage Fist user is novel. Considering this would actually use Iron Fist, I am unsure if the Attack boost is needed here?

 

[StarFalcon555]

WIP

+No Guard
-Iron Fist
+17 Spe
+10 Atk

The goal of this package is simple - make Poltergeist into an extremely spammable move by making it unable to miss. Speed tier creeps Cinderace, Darkrai, and Weavile.

 

[CharSiuEmboar]

WIP
+Opportunist
-Iron Fist
+Tidy Up
+Parting Shot
+Comeuppance
-10 Def
+35 SpD
+33 Speed

This may be too significant a departure, and +58 BST is a big ask - but thought I'd test the waters.

The stat boost are intended to bring it to more of a niche against the power creep the Drag and Equilibra brought, but removes the reliance on Scarf to keep up. 143 Speed beats Pult, allowing 1HKO. No longer can Pult just switch in and force Kit out, and.. SpD boost (paid for in part by the defense drop) lets it guaranteed survive Earth Power AFTER 1 layer of spikes with 4evs in HP. Comeuppance will deal 1.5x damage recieved back to Equi on it's next turn; that's 330 to 395 damage to Equi, around 80-97% of Equi leaving it in very dangerous territory if it has taken some damage.

Knock Off becomes useful for its item removal, Parting Shot means your team can come in more safely, again encouraging more switching from the opponent.

 

[earthflax]

if the user acts before it is hit by an opponent's damaging move, Comeuppance will fail.

An already incredible stat buff combined with a an ability that denies many common setup sweepers (in tandem with speed tier) as well as a Dragon Dance+Defog of your own is far too much and also does nothing to solve its problems in its role in my opinion.

 

[MC Squared]

WIP
+Opportunist
-Iron Fist
+Tidy Up
+Parting Shot
+Comeuppance
-10 Def
+35 SpD
+33 Speed

This may be too significant a departure, and +58 BST is a big ask - but thought I'd test the waters.

The stat boost are intended to bring it to more of a niche against the power creep the Drag and Equilibra brought, but removes the reliance on Scarf to keep up. 143 Speed beats Pult, allowing 1HKO. No longer can Pult just switch in and force Kit out, and.. SpD boost (paid for in part by the defense drop) lets it guaranteed survive Earth Power AFTER 1 layer of spikes with 4evs in HP. Comeuppance will deal 1.5x damage recieved back to Equi on it's next turn; that's 330 to 395 damage to Equi, around 80-97% of Equi leaving it in very dangerous territory if it has taken some damage.

Knock Off becomes useful for its item removal, Parting Shot means your team can come in more safely, again encouraging more switching from the opponent.

This buff package is next level crack

 

[Gekokeso]

WIP

+Bulletproof
-Iron Fist
+20 HP
+17 Spe
+Encore

Similar to a package proposed above. With bulletproof, Kit gains a niche over its ghost type competition by being an option to help against not only other ghosts like Dragapult or Gholdengo (hex sets can be an issue, but bulk allows it to come in on good turns and force a switch, as it lives hex from full hp on both mons), but also as a hard counter to Cinderace that can use it to gain momentum. Speed outspeed common benchmarks mentioned above such as Weavile or Darkrai.

 

[Brambane]

There have been excellent suggestions thus far. I have three updates.

1. I plan on having the preliminary slate on Monday around 12:00 PM EST. This will include buff packages that I will put on the final slate, and those I would slate with minor adjustment. Expect a final slate to be ready for voting on Tuesday or Wednesday. If there are no Buff Packages I consider worthy of being slated, I will make an announcement and extend our process. (currently there are submissions I feel okay slating, so I don't see it being an issue but thought I would establish it now.)

2. I will allow up to two final submissions from each user. These can either be in the same post or separate. You cannot submit two identical Buff Packages, but they can be otherwise as similar or different to each other as you wish. I will not slate two packages that are closely similar, but would be willing to slate two from the same user if they are notably different but both viable.

3. For the weekend, I will let y'all cook. I will be allowing normally restricted and banned abilities, as well as usual restricted signature moves, that are not tied to a specific Pokemon's form. What this means:

• Form Change and unTrace-able abilities are still not allowed, i.e. Gulp Missile, Disguise, Illusion, Quark Drive, etc.
  • See: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/abilities/trace/
• Legendary abilities are allowed, i.e. Turboblaze, Toxic Chain, Hadron Engine
• All moves useable and learnable in SV by at least one Pokemon and that can be copied by Mimic are allowed, i.e. Gigaton Hammer, Doodle
  • See: https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/moves/mimic/ for moves that are not allowed

HOWEVER, these moves and abilities are restricted for a reason! Any Buff Package that includes one or more of the normally restricted abilities or moves will have a higher degree of scrutiny used against them and require a greater deal of positive support from the community to be slated. There will be internal discussion regarding the slating of these abilities and moves. The reason I am doing this is partially a thought experiment, partially as a fun bonus for the community, and partially to continue our commitment to pursuing purely competitive changes with less regard for the flavor of a "signature move or ability" aka "X Factor" as they are being called more these days.

Keep in mind I am still looking for balanced submissions, so your Supreme Overlord + Last Respects buff package will not be getting slated, don't even try it, you know who you are and I am talking to YOU.

I look forward to see what everyone cooks up for two submissions, but keep it reasonable folks. Have fun!

 

[earthflax]

WIP 2

+12 Atk
-1 Speed
+Gigaton Hammer
-Poltergeist

A bit radical maybe, but Brambane told us to go insane so let's push it. The submission is pretty self-explanatory honestly. Kitsunoh trades one very strong, spammable potentially overbearing STAB move for a stronger, less spammable and probably just as potentially overbearing STAB move. Because of Gigaton Hammer's devastating base power, there is no need for a Speed buff, nor an ability change. The Attack buff is meant to accentuate Kit's role as an offensive pivot (as Kit's defensive counterplay is very sturdy, this buff does not push it over the edge offensively.) The 1-point Speed nerf allows Ogerpon-W and other base 110s to get the jump on Kit while speed-tying Walking Wake and still outspeeding unboosted Chuggalong. Gigaton Hammer's drawback combined with Kitsunoh's inherent flaws means that this buff would reward smart play on both sides of the equation. With this tool Kitsunoh can take a more offensive route, potentially opting to utilize its own utility. There is still obvious offensive and defensive counterplay such as Weavile, Darkrai, Dragapult, Equilibra, Arghonaut, Kingambit, Ting-Lu, and, obviously, Tera stuff such as Tera Water Garganacl.

set

Kitsunoh @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Covert Cloak
Ability: Limber
Tera Type: Water / Steel / Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gigaton Hammer
- Shadow Strike
- U-turn / Protect
- Strength Sap / Wish / Will-O-Wisp

 

[spoo]

Opportunist is really cool, maybe even bordering on unhealthy honestly (not necessarily broken, just kinda invalidating for certain setup stuff), but I enjoy it a lot in theory. Would be nice to see an Opportunist buff package subbed that isn’t wildly overtuned. I like the Magician idea a lot too but I think it needs more juice. The Regen/Levitate buffs will almost surely work, but they do feel a little boring to me. Immunity abilities, Regenerator, and Magic Guard had to be banned from normal discussion in CAP processes because they’ll just always be good and are rather uninteresting as a result. Regen is Regen and a Steel/Ghost with Levitate is just so ridiculously strong as a defensive profile to the point where I’m not sure if I want to deal with the meta ramifications or optics of it. I kind of prefer Fluffy as something that leans into Kitsunoh’s defensive utility in a little more unique way, though the current Fluffy package might need slightly more stats.

Not sure yet if I’ll be voting for anything with legendary sigs. These options are highly restricted during main processes, only really coming into play when a concept itself calls for their use or when deemed absolutely necessary for a project’s success. For this buff, they really don’t meet that bar; as seen in this thread already, there are plenty of good packages that can effectively buff Kitsunoh without treading into legendary signature territory. Even just regular sigs like Gigaton Hammer, Doodle etc are still a bit sketchy to me. It’ll be fun to see what kinds of creative packages are proposed, but I don’t think Kitsunoh is in such a dire state that we need to dip into these tools.

Also keep in mind that these buff processes are intended to hit somewhere around the B/B- mark in terms of viability. Or, to not rely on vague VR rankings, these processes should walk the line between a viable end product and minimizing impact on the metagame. Buff processes do more harm than good when they heavily disrupt the tier, especially considering that a new CAP process is right around the corner, and that our metagame is more developed than it’s been in the past year thanks to CAPPL. Some of these packages definitely feel a bit too impactful, although it’s hard to accurately gauge sometimes and I’m not the one making the final decisions anyways.

 

[Samirsin]

WIP
+Shadow Shield
-Iron Fist
+16 Speed
+18 Attack
+Disable
-Poltergeist

The main addition, Shadow Shield, allows Kitsunoh to have a niche in the CAP metagame, while also being really good flavor.
Speed is to outspeed Darkrai by 1 point. Attack is so that Kitsunoh always OHKOs 0 HP 0 Def Dragapult with Shadow Strike at 252 Attack EVs and a Jolly Nature.
This allows for various plays, either defog, disable or strength sap at least once. Without Poltergeist it loses offensive power, so it can focus more on the support niche and has to rely on Shadow Strike for power.
Multiscale helps with CAP's mission of exploring OU, in this case, by having a damage reduction Pokémon.
I'm open to suggestions and comments.

252 Atk KitsunohShadow Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 318-374 (100.3 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs DragapultShadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Kitsunoh: 195-231 (64.7 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sample sets:
Shadow Shield
Kitsunoh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shadow Shield
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Strength Sap
- Defog
- Shadow Strike
- Knock Off

It's like Rapid Spin Terapagos (Tera Shell Rapid Spin) but with a niche of typing and recovery. Can even work like a semi check with Shadow Shield.


Frisk + Disable
Kitsunoh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Frisk
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Protect
- Strength Sap
- Disable

You frisk to immediately scout their item, and if they are choice, you disable. If you are faster, you protect and next turn disable. If you force the switch, you can knock off the switch in. Can easily swap the moves to include Shadow Strike for example.

 

[Imw0rstadP0keM0n]

Final 1

+ Perish Body (replacing Iron Fist)
+ Fluffy (replacing Frisk)
+ 5 speed
+ 10 HP
+ 20 Def
+ Mean Look
- Poltergeist

I really like the Perish Body concept above and wanted to give an alternative take on it. With 115 speed you outspeed the Ogerpons, Iron Moth, but don't outspeed Iron Valiant. Rather, I'd way more heavily into specifically physical bulk, with 90/105/80 bulk being slightly above average while not sacrificing speed or offensive capabilities. Spreading status such as Will-O-Wisp, Tricking, pivoting, etc all become much easier when you no longer have below average bulk.

I want to highlight an idea of counterplay between Perish Body and Fluffy. Without Fluffy for example, Jolly Great Tusk does this with Knock Off against 0 bulk invest Kitsunoh.

No Fluffy Kitsunoh vs. Knock

252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 204-242 (63.5 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Fluffy, this is much more favorable for Kitsunoh, maybe allowing a critical burn or pivot into something more threatening.

Fluffy Kitsunoh vs. Knock

252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fluffy Gholdengo: 102-121 (31.7 - 37.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 3HKO

Fluffy is obviously great for physically walling attackers but obviously has its' fair share of weaknesses, for example--

kitsunoh dies

Earthquake
252 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 318-374 (99 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Fire type coverage (even physical)
252 Atk Great Tusk Temper Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fluffy Gholdengo: 158-188 (49.2 - 58.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO. If Great Tusk failed a rapid spin, this would one-shot 95% of the time.

Now obviously the calcs are a little different with full bulk invest + fluffy, but Kitsunoh loses a lot of threat by doing so, and may not neccessarily outspeed pokemon like Jolly Great Tusk or even Full Speed invest Heatran.

The switch between Fluffy and Perish Body either allows Kitsunoh to play far more freely around enemy physical attackers/sweepers (particularly knock off spam), or to completely disrupt enemy gameplans by swapping in on physical hits to prevent setup sweeps with Perish Song.

Perish Body in particular has great synergy with Shadow Strike, as when you force a switch out, you may force an awkward situation where you cause a defense drop on a fresh switch-in.

I think Mean Look (or a similar blocking move, such as Fire Spin) would be a great addition (though the attacking variations might be a little bit overbearing with Perish Body). I'd like to remove Poltergeist to hit Kitsunohs' lethality a bit. With vastly improved physical bulk, and Shadow Strike being an important part of Kitsunohs' kit, Poltergiest at best wouldn't be considered and at worst, would be a bit too strong for something that can easily live Knocks to be able to utilize.

 

[lezzy cuttlefish]

Final Submission

+25 special defense
+14 speed
+Purifying Salt
-Iron Fist

It's been pointed out that Kit's primary issues are typing nerfs, and competition from pokemon that are both very common and very good. So why don't we revise that nerf and counter those pokemon in one fell swoop? With purifying salt and these defense buffs this sp. def buff, it becomes pretty easy for Kit to switch in on the tier's ghost types. Timid gholdengo's shadowball is a 3hko before boosts, and a 2hko after.

As long as we run 252 hp EVs and lefties, even Kit's current def stat lets it survive rev one-two punching with poltergeist into shadow sneak; it can't kill us before we get to strength sap it, and its situation only worsens if it tries to bulk up instead.
Neither boots dragapult nor status dragapult can touch us either. Specs pult can nail us with flamethrower, but I think that's fine.

Purifying salt also makes us immune to status, of course. Ghold can't make progress against us via thunderwave, and pult can't cripple our shadow strike with wisp. Our u-turn also becomes incredibly safe! Heatran can't threaten to burn us with flame body, and zapdos can't threaten to paralyze us with static. +4 speed +14 speed is meant to support the buffs to u-turn; we get to outspeed and click SE u-turn on serperior, ogerpon, the latis, meowscarada, and greninja. There are a handful of other relevant pokemon we'd outspeed at 124, as well - but intentionally not positive nature darkrai and weavile.

tldr: with this package kitsunoh becomes a ghost type that beats ghosts, a defogger that gholdengo can't kill or paralyze, and a very safe physical pivot option.

 

[viol and bass]

Final Submission

-Iron Fist
-Strength Sap
+Unaware
+Encore
-18 HP
+25 Atk
+21 Spe

New statline: 62 HP / 128 Atk / 85 Def / 55 SpAtk / 80 SpDef / 131 Spe

The idea behind this buff is to make Kitsunoh into an offensive Unaware user. Unaware is typically an ability favored for its defensive merits, but it has some really nice offensive utility in that it ignores opponents' Defense boosts. This allows you to do some interesting things in this metagame such as hitting Venomicon, Zamazenta, etc. as if they were unboosted, which is a really significant niche for a physical attacker.

Strength Sap is removed because it's both quite annoying and quite awkward with Unaware since attack drops are ignored. Poltergeist is the move of choice for this build, because with Shadow Strike the defense drops you inflict would be ignored. I believe this set runs Earthquake as coverage to hit mons like Iron Moth, boosted Chuggalong, and anything with a popped balloon that could shrug off a Poltergeist. Encore just makes a lot of sense on Kitsunoh for reasons Brambane describes (Kit's plentiful immunities for example), and it feels nice on offensive mons.

The bulk cut is there to prevent this mon from being used in a primarily defensive manner by investing in bulk to tank hits from boosted mons like any other Unaware user. The increased attack and speed encourage offensive sets and grant Kitsunoh a niche as a physical attacker that can break through defense-boosting mons. The stat buffs look pretty significant, but I think it's warranted here. Running calcs with choice band for example is scary, but banded Poltergeist is so awkward this gen that I believe the threat of that set is mitigated. Additionally when the competition is mons like Gholdengo and Pult, it's clear that Kitsunoh needs a significant boost.

The speed is for Stratagem. It's immune to Polt / EQ if it has used its power herb, so being able to hit it before that happens is kind of nice.

Calcs

252 Atk Kitsunoh Poltergeist vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 144-169 (40.9 - 48%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Kitsunoh Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 260-308 (73.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Kitsunoh Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 144+ Def Venomicon: 129-153 (34.5 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Kitsunoh Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 184-218 (53.9 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Unaware Kitsunoh Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 145-172 (37.3 - 44.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Kitsunoh Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raging Bolt: 234-276 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Kitsunoh Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hemogoblin: 244-288 (76 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Kitsunoh Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Kitsunoh U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 166-196 (59 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Kitsunoh Poltergeist vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 141-166 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Chuggalong Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kitsunoh: 224-264 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Hemogoblin Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kitsunoh: 80-95 (30 - 35.7%) -- 34% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kitsunoh: 156-184 (58.6 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Hemogoblin Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kitsunoh: 80-95 (30 - 35.7%) -- 34% chance to 3HKO

Example Set

Kitsunoh @ Air Balloon
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poltergeist
- Earthquake
- Encore / U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp / Defog

Balloon is kinda neat on Kitsunoh because for example Great Tusk can't spin on you to break your balloon and then outspeed the following turn. It gives you an additional immunity to encore opponents into and you're also very resistant to hazards while it's active.

 

[Imw0rstadP0keM0n]

+Unaware

I'd take issue with this only because you completely neuter Shadow Strike, since you'll be ignoring the enemies defense *drops* as well.

 

[SDK03]

Buff Package V2

Stat Changes:
+20 Atk +10 Atk
+5 Def
+5 SpD
+15 Spe
-25 SpA -15 SpA

Ability Changes:
+Magic Bounce (-Iron Fist)

Movepool Changes:
+Encore (honestly this is too much on a fast Magic Bounce Pokémon, so scrap that addition)

Sample Sets:
Kitsunoh @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Covert Cloak
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Fairy
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 56 HP / 200 Atk / 252 Spe (or 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe)
- Strength Sap
- Knock Off
- Shadow Strike
- U-Turn / Will-O-Wisp / Defog / Close Combat

Going the opposite of my original prompt in giving Kitsunoh higher raw offensive power, I decided to go all-in on turning it into a potent utility pivot that punishes hazard-stack strats and slower teams. Magic Bounce punishes teams too reliant on hazard-spam or status-spam with Encore taking away momentum from common abusers. Helps that it makes it a nice Status absorber because it does not like taking Will-O-Wisps or Thunder Waves at all without an ability for blocking those. 20+ 10+ Attack allows for Kit to do a little bit better damage (allowing it to OHKO Kingambit with Close Combat or Low Kick when using more offensive movesets), the extra bulk gives it an improved defensive presence and 125 Speed allows it to outrun Cresceidon and Meowscarada while only speed-tying with Weavile and Darkrai to prevent it from being too much.

252 Atk (113 Atk Stat) Kitsunoh Close Combat vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 408-480 (103.5 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Quick edit, but I thought I’d remove some of the bulk (+5 in both Defenses instead of +10) since Magic Bounce is a very strong ability.

And for another edit, I’m removing Encore from the buff package since Encore on a fast Magic Bounce pivot sounds pretty ridiculous after thinking about it a little bit.

And for a final edit by Brambane’s suggestions on making this package less overtuned, I’ve decided to just abandon the bulk increase and lower the Atk increase (by just making it enough to OHKO Bulky Kingambit with Close Combat using full investment).