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- Thread starter Yung Dramps
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"PC gaming isn't a competitor to console gaming" is a take that has been dumb for half a decade and the fact console manufacturers seem to be buying into that concept with cross platform is gonna eat them in the ass
its kinda funny seeing people use the wikipedia definition of "PS5 exclusive" to say it has no games when people used to shit on them for not porting games to PC. see people's reactions of thinking the PS5 is almost pointless without them. underbaked console, they say!
it's because PC gaming is straight up becoming very popular. gen z watched youtubers growing up, youtubers on gaming PCs that showed things that can only be done on PC, they're grown up and now they're seeing increased PS+ prices and xbox putting everything on PC and Steam deals, etc. etc. etc. the actually uninformed "I'm just buying whatever I see an ad for" type consumer for tech is seeing not ads, but almost every mainstream outlet for gaming using a gaming PC
prebuilts, steam decks, the increase in resources to know how to put the parts together. PC gaming will continue to get more popular and as the console makers keep porting their games to PC, despite the actual number of players growing, I think the number of PS6 buyers will shrink.
there is a reason that every half year there's a report that "x game is the highest record players on Steam Charts ever!" or something similar.
its kinda funny seeing people use the wikipedia definition of "PS5 exclusive" to say it has no games when people used to shit on them for not porting games to PC. see people's reactions of thinking the PS5 is almost pointless without them. underbaked console, they say!
it's because PC gaming is straight up becoming very popular. gen z watched youtubers growing up, youtubers on gaming PCs that showed things that can only be done on PC, they're grown up and now they're seeing increased PS+ prices and xbox putting everything on PC and Steam deals, etc. etc. etc. the actually uninformed "I'm just buying whatever I see an ad for" type consumer for tech is seeing not ads, but almost every mainstream outlet for gaming using a gaming PC
prebuilts, steam decks, the increase in resources to know how to put the parts together. PC gaming will continue to get more popular and as the console makers keep porting their games to PC, despite the actual number of players growing, I think the number of PS6 buyers will shrink.
there is a reason that every half year there's a report that "x game is the highest record players on Steam Charts ever!" or something similar.
It's going to what now?
I broadly agree with your post, though I have a different perspective on the issue. Consoles absolutely cannot compete with PC gaming in terms of specs or broad utility, and I think that console manufacturers have recognized this for a while because they're all offering alternative reasons to buy their paperweights. Microsoft is trying to compete with value using the Game Pass; Sony is trying to compete with exclusivity by holding games hostage on their systems (I'm convinced that they're not porting Bloodborne because they want a remaster/remake of it to be the headline exclusive for the PS6); and Nintendo is trying to avoid more direct competition by developing their big system sellers in-house and deploying unique technology. Cross-platform may give consumers one less reason to buy a console where games themselves are concerned, but Microsoft also stands to benefit from a rise in PC gaming (I'm typing this on a computer that has Windows!), which is probably why they've historically been more receptive to the idea than Sony has.
Sure, for Xbox.
This isn't true. Game Pass is a front, look at the leaked FTC plans and realize that Game Pass is basically Xbox's own Cloud service. The actual plan is extremely Microsoft: Try to monopolize cloud gaming. You can already play most Game Pass titles via cloud streaming on your phone, and even on the actual consoles Microsoft will prompt you to try games using cloud rather than install. The consoles are just here because they have to be- to keep the brand relevant.
This is the thing. It isn't. Almost all of its PS5 titles are on PC, or are leaked to be coming to PC. A year of exclusivity doesn't matter, PC gamers have already wised up and it doesn't matter. Horizon Forbidden West? PC. Helldivers 2? PC on launch day! God of War Ragnarok? PC. Miles Morales? PC. The Last of Us Part 1? On PC. Ghost of Tsushima? On PC. Rift Apart? On PC.
Spiderman 2 will absolutely be on PC soon enough. Final Fantasy 16 and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth were only timed exclusives. Astro Bot is probably the only PS5 game I can think of that is not likely to be ported to PC. They are absolutely double dipping enough on their games to where PC gamers have almost no reason to get a PS5.
This is going to continue, with things such as the Playstation Network being ported to work on PC games.
I was never talking about Nintendo. The handheld format and going full exclusive does them well.
Xbox doing this makes sense because Xbox is, all things considered, a failing brand that never lived up to Microsoft's expectations, and hasn't for decades. Really, I'm mostly talking about Sony because they actually have something to lose as the console manufacturer developing a more traditional console series while still following suit.
Yeah I think traditional videogame consoles are in the opening rounds of a death spiral. You want a lower price point and convenience? Buy a handheld/hybrid. Got money to spend and want the best specs? Get a gaming PC. Stuff like the PS5 comes off more and more as the awkward middle ground.
Miraidon deserves rising voltage, and there is no need to nerf the bikes in gen 10. Zama needs boosting moves like bulk up and swords dance just like Zacian, and they need to have their nerfs reversed. Gf should introduce more minmaxed mons like sneasler next gen, wasted stats hurt my soul. Ogerpon needs close combat, tho low kick might already be enough. Rayquaza deserves + 20 speed + 10 defenses and -40 spa, never uses them anyways. Groudon should swap special attack with special defense, wont matter much in base forme but Primal forme would lose mixed attacking power. Also give it morning sun because it just fits and needs something like that in this power crept meta. Kyogre deserves scald and recover. Oh and give miraidon nasty plot pls so it fits koraidon.
Ill be back for more later.
Ill be back for more later.
The hell?? Kyogre doesn't know scald???
Everything I agree with, we also need DD on Chomp cause its criminal it hasn't gotten it but Aerodactyl has, I think GF obviously hates it, they've cucked us with Scale Shot chomp and we need buffs for mons like shiftry and ludicolo, its unacceptable to give mons 3 stage evolution and yet their BST is nothing close to 500
The reason Miraidon doesn't get Nasty Plot is because Nasty Plot on fast Pokemon with good enough Special Attack is probably the least amount of traits needed to be pretty broken.
Special attackers are way harder to check outside of the blobs like Blissey, which isn't even applicable to the main competitive format, VGC. Swords Dance may be +2, but in a format with Intimidate everywhere, Burn existing, and other abilities that punish Physical moves it's inherently easier to check than Special Attacks which have essentially nothing.
Special attackers are way harder to check outside of the blobs like Blissey, which isn't even applicable to the main competitive format, VGC. Swords Dance may be +2, but in a format with Intimidate everywhere, Burn existing, and other abilities that punish Physical moves it's inherently easier to check than Special Attacks which have essentially nothing.
they should have made burn weaken attack and defense both by 25% and then regular poison weaken special attack by 50% (badly poison forgoes the spatk debuff in exchange for the massive DoT)
This change will do absolutely nothing as Miraidon is rarely on the field for more than 5 turns.
Do you actually think they're going to? For every VGC metagame they're a part of, they're kept in check because you can almost always have a Fairy type on the field. Game Freak famously doesn't care about singles.
Zama will get very little use out of swords dance as it's gameplan is using Iron Defense to become an incredibly strong physical wall that can hit decently hard, and only needs coverage.
We already got plenty of them this gen. We have mons like Flutter Mane, Sneasler, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, and Iron Bundle, and the reason you think there aren't a lot of minmaxed mons is because they all get banned from OU for being too good.
95 Speed is enough for an ubers-legal metagame because it clears the base 90 benchmark where most other legendaries sit at. At 115 speed, It'll just become another fast physical sweeper, for which there are better options, not even mentioning the fact that the best physical dragon attack that Rayquaza has is dragon claw, and it's reliant on its 150 SpA to be able to do any damage with its dragon STAB.
Groudon is already bulky enough, and it gets its lack of survivability from its plethora of weaknesses, NOT its defensive stats. Also, Groudon only uses its SpA stat to get usage out of the fire type that is otherwise a detriment.
Miraidon hits hard enough with electric terrain+hadron engine and a 100% accurate 100bp electric stab. If you *really* need to hit harder, you can slap choice specs on it.
pigbeef had a hot take (and ant responded to it), but stuff like 'give garchomp dd' and 'give poison spa drop' is the mainstream point of view of 'buff the stuff that is relatively worse than expectation and buff the stuff i like'. this is just becoming normal theorymon. at any rate, i don't think a theorymon discussion will be productive if nobody establishes what 'need' and 'deserve' mean, if nobody establishes what we expect of pokemon and what they should be mechanically - that is often the real bone of contention here and currently unaddressed.
even though pigbeef's take is hotter, i agree with them on rising voltage miraidon. (i don't know how miraidon being on the field for few turns is relevant here, it doesnt need to wait for hadron to expire to make rising voltage good, in fact it wants the opposite) by the standards of this environment, im a hardass when it comes to balancing, but i let that go when it comes to mascot legendaries. they're the wild silly haha broken guys, and i don't think game freak has any responsibility to keep them balanced. i guess that's my hot take to chip in? miraidon is fine to be broken and voltage is logical + fun synergy for it, sure. these mascot mons are restricted in official formats and generally kept out of most standard singles matches, either by gentleman's agreement or smogon-type restrictions, so they don't pose a problem for 99% of battlers. this mentality is obviously less pleasant for tiers like ubers and anything goes (my former tier), but, as the saying goes, every change breaks somebody's workflow (thanks xkcd). we can't ask game freak to balance around every hypothetical fanfic metagame we can dream about - these metas just aren't that important in the general pokemon picture and gamefreak has better stuff to do than balance them. gf oughta be reasonable for metagames they expect great numbers of people to play, but when we're operating outside the norm that they (theoretically) balance for, we should take what we get and find whatever is most fun with those pieces, whatever it ends up being.
e: lol at 'the poisoner did their job badly'
even though pigbeef's take is hotter, i agree with them on rising voltage miraidon. (i don't know how miraidon being on the field for few turns is relevant here, it doesnt need to wait for hadron to expire to make rising voltage good, in fact it wants the opposite) by the standards of this environment, im a hardass when it comes to balancing, but i let that go when it comes to mascot legendaries. they're the wild silly haha broken guys, and i don't think game freak has any responsibility to keep them balanced. i guess that's my hot take to chip in? miraidon is fine to be broken and voltage is logical + fun synergy for it, sure. these mascot mons are restricted in official formats and generally kept out of most standard singles matches, either by gentleman's agreement or smogon-type restrictions, so they don't pose a problem for 99% of battlers. this mentality is obviously less pleasant for tiers like ubers and anything goes (my former tier), but, as the saying goes, every change breaks somebody's workflow (thanks xkcd). we can't ask game freak to balance around every hypothetical fanfic metagame we can dream about - these metas just aren't that important in the general pokemon picture and gamefreak has better stuff to do than balance them. gf oughta be reasonable for metagames they expect great numbers of people to play, but when we're operating outside the norm that they (theoretically) balance for, we should take what we get and find whatever is most fun with those pieces, whatever it ends up being.
e: lol at 'the poisoner did their job badly'
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It's worth noting that regular poison isn't strictly worse than toxic poison, since its higher base damage means it takes 4 turns of the target not switching for toxic to begin to outpace it (some aggressive hazard stack teams will deliberately only apply one layer of toxic spikes for this reason). Any significant buff to regular poison without also buffing toxic poison would probably mean the latter is completely outclassed. So unless you're interested in making "badly poisoned" mean that the poisoner did their job badly, I'd either buff both or neither.
how tiers like natdex ou talk about tera is literally just a big part of why we banned dynamax, but actually happening on a less urgent scale
the idea that "ban gyarados and 3 more max airstream mons pop up" was compelling then, and "ban three mons that are broken by tera and 3 more mons abusing adaptability will pop up" is also true
sv ou can mostly get away with it to an extent because of the smaller dex, and solo gimmick, but even there it is the root of the tier's problems
more than that tho, while sv is obviously power crept, its also power crept in cringe ways with annoying abilities. monotype is some of the most fun ive had in gen 9 bc even with shit like flutter mane at least tera, kingambit and booster energy are gone, allowing me to play the game without a comeback mechanic breathing down my neck
the idea that "ban gyarados and 3 more max airstream mons pop up" was compelling then, and "ban three mons that are broken by tera and 3 more mons abusing adaptability will pop up" is also true
sv ou can mostly get away with it to an extent because of the smaller dex, and solo gimmick, but even there it is the root of the tier's problems
more than that tho, while sv is obviously power crept, its also power crept in cringe ways with annoying abilities. monotype is some of the most fun ive had in gen 9 bc even with shit like flutter mane at least tera, kingambit and booster energy are gone, allowing me to play the game without a comeback mechanic breathing down my neck
The fire type isn’t a detriment to groudon, in fact it helps way more than it harms, with the wisp immunity and the resistance and immunity to sacred fire burns. Rayquaza generally doesn’t run dragon stab in modern gens. Also most legendaries in the current Ubers gen are at a higher level, such as 130 (eternatus) 120 (arceus formes) 135 (bikes and cheem pao and flutter) and more. The only truly good base 90 in this gen of Ubers is kyogre.
I’ve played enough Ubers and AG to know better.
Zama gets to abuse way more moves than just bp if it gets sd.
Groudon can also run fire punch, heat crash as fire stab. Desolate land just makes it immune to water, remember.
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I'm biased toward the Wii U/3DS era due to its personal significance for me, but I can't bring myself to dislike this take.
The switch was great, ngl.
Maybe but they made mistakes of discontinuing the virtual console and making people pay to play online. That alone makes the Wii/WiiU and 3ds generations better.
The Wii has like 10 good exclusive games
The PS3 has like 5
Xbox 360 has like 10
Third party was at its weakest
AA fucking completely died out, if the studio was not Activision it died
Most of the games homogenized into multiplayer shooters
Nah, this is not only not the best generation in gaming, it is the worst generation in gaming since the industry became a real thing. This was the death of variety, the death of tens of thousands of jobs, the beginning of DLC and MTX, the death of anything but multiplayer shooters. This was Bomberman:
This is like the most Nintendo fan take ever. And tbh, the Wii is one of their worst gens for exclusives straight up. I can name so many more good and important games from other Nintendo consoles. This was the beginning of the boring era of Nintendo.
Had a lot more than 10 good exclusive games but whatever. DLC in nintendo games didn't really kick off until the current generation.
you realize there are more parts of a console generation than nintendo right
consider: mario and sonic go to the olympics
I do that's why I said the Wii/Wii U generation which includes all the other consoles around during those generations. I just didn't think to type them because i thought that people would understand. Guess I was wrong.
I have to agree, I think the Wii, 360, PS3 era of gaming was pretty terrible. That was the era when DLC started to become a thing, it was also when just about every game had to have photo realistic humans as the main characters (back then it was novel), which is not only boring to look at, it also takes way longer and is more expensive, so naturally that drives up the cost of the games and consoles in turn. Sonic 06 proved to the world that people will buy a completely unfinished, unpolished shitshow even in the internet age. The Wii was basically a slightly more powerful Gamecube with motion controls, which Microsoft and Sony would (badly) copy. Yeah I've got no love for that era. Think of all the modern gaming trends you hate, most of them started right there.
My personal favourite era of gaming was the PS2 era. Games were much more varied in art style and genre (we weren't up to our eyes in FPSs), and while there were a fair few turkeys, patches weren't a thing so most games were actually finished when they launched.
My personal favourite era of gaming was the PS2 era. Games were much more varied in art style and genre (we weren't up to our eyes in FPSs), and while there were a fair few turkeys, patches weren't a thing so most games were actually finished when they launched.
While we're on the subject of consoles, I'll put my best foot forward and say the 3DS is the greatest video game console to ever exist, and you cannot change my mind. Yes, even greater than the Switch, the PS2, or any other system you might be thinking of.
I chock that up mostly to the library of games available - the Alolan Pokemon games being the main selling point for me (and for favourite game of all time is in the three-way tie between it and Xenoblade(s) 1 and 3 for me), as well as other series like Fire Emblem and (to a lesser extent) SMT (I think base IV and SJR are kinda mid, but I won't take it away from you if you enjoy those games - also IV Apoc' is underrated af and I'll stand by that). I also have to give my undying respect to the 3ds modding scene, and Pretendo for it's efforts to keep the post-shutdown servers alive (I've been balls deep into it for about the past year or so, and even I'm pleasantly surprised how easy it is (and yes, I'm well aware of the memes)).
As for our current generation... I'll concede it could be better. Sony and Microsoft can't stop finding ways to be complete fucking dumbasses, and I think even the big N is starting to fatigue a little (not that their community issues haven't pre-dated that to some extent, what with the DMCA hammer they have making everyone look like a nail). If I had to be impartial:
- The Switch having access to all three Xenoblade games is well worth the price of admission alone IMO. If you're a Fire Emblem fan, chances are you're also eating well. Current generations of Pokemon have made me realise the love-hate relationship I have with the series in general.
- If you have a PS4, Scarlet Nexus is absolute Kino, and I cannot recommend it enough. Slick H&S gameplay, looks graphically good without Unreal jerking itself off, great character line-up, a story that has frankly aged like fine wine IMO (despite some slightly questionable pacing decisions), and whoever decided to hire The Oral Cigarettes for the OP and OST deserves 17 raises in rapid fucking succession. Persona fans were also eating for a while, but with P5R now going cross-platform, I can't really credit the PS4 for that.
- lmao wtf Xbox.
Although if I'm going to post more than a room-temperature take here, I'll say that if the state of modern gaming dies tomorrow, I don't think we'd be missing out on much. I don't say that in a 'I hate gaming' kind of way (perish the thought!), I say that because there are so many obscure yet great titles on older hardware archived for eternity, that we could honestly last the next 50 years retracing our steps alone. Be honest with yourselves: how big are your backlog(s) on stuff with back-dated discrepancies between then and now? I should know, mine is huge.
I chock that up mostly to the library of games available - the Alolan Pokemon games being the main selling point for me (and for favourite game of all time is in the three-way tie between it and Xenoblade(s) 1 and 3 for me), as well as other series like Fire Emblem and (to a lesser extent) SMT (I think base IV and SJR are kinda mid, but I won't take it away from you if you enjoy those games - also IV Apoc' is underrated af and I'll stand by that). I also have to give my undying respect to the 3ds modding scene, and Pretendo for it's efforts to keep the post-shutdown servers alive (I've been balls deep into it for about the past year or so, and even I'm pleasantly surprised how easy it is (and yes, I'm well aware of the memes)).
As for our current generation... I'll concede it could be better. Sony and Microsoft can't stop finding ways to be complete fucking dumbasses, and I think even the big N is starting to fatigue a little (not that their community issues haven't pre-dated that to some extent, what with the DMCA hammer they have making everyone look like a nail). If I had to be impartial:
- The Switch having access to all three Xenoblade games is well worth the price of admission alone IMO. If you're a Fire Emblem fan, chances are you're also eating well. Current generations of Pokemon have made me realise the love-hate relationship I have with the series in general.
- If you have a PS4, Scarlet Nexus is absolute Kino, and I cannot recommend it enough. Slick H&S gameplay, looks graphically good without Unreal jerking itself off, great character line-up, a story that has frankly aged like fine wine IMO (despite some slightly questionable pacing decisions), and whoever decided to hire The Oral Cigarettes for the OP and OST deserves 17 raises in rapid fucking succession. Persona fans were also eating for a while, but with P5R now going cross-platform, I can't really credit the PS4 for that.
- lmao wtf Xbox.
Although if I'm going to post more than a room-temperature take here, I'll say that if the state of modern gaming dies tomorrow, I don't think we'd be missing out on much. I don't say that in a 'I hate gaming' kind of way (perish the thought!), I say that because there are so many obscure yet great titles on older hardware archived for eternity, that we could honestly last the next 50 years retracing our steps alone. Be honest with yourselves: how big are your backlog(s) on stuff with back-dated discrepancies between then and now? I should know, mine is huge.
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