My paranoia must be tuned up too high cause all the commentary and signs said she smoked him. I’m glad to be wrong
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Serious The Politics Thread
- Thread starter Oglemi
- Start date
- Status
I assume these celebrity endorsements don't matter. IIRC, Mark Hamill endorsed Harris / Biden in the past too and no one batted an eye.
Social media does make it difficult to gauge how popular anything Biden / Harris related is though. Anything Biden / Harris related gets mass disliked, with a bunch of comments talking about how Republicans / Trump would manage the issue better. Just watch any of the new videos talking about, idk, the economy, and read the comments and you'll see what I mean. Only reason I mention this is because one of the videos where Mark Hamill was talking at the white house had an extremely angry comments section grilling him.
Hi! Someone who would be directly effected by Project 2025 (trans, disabled) here, tbh the second half of the debate was really fucking cringe for Harris. I'm currently on month 9 of waiting for the social security system to help me after they took my application, and I'm in a solidly blue state.
Things like her stance on healthcare directly going against things like Sanders said made me say "Go fuck yourself" as someone who has battled for months to get treatment.
Yes, Trump Bad, but things are already pretty bad for almost all the groups targeted by P2025 and Kamala clearly doesn't really have policy positions or a real clear vision besides shit I don't like, frankly.
I still think you should vote for Kamala but I also believe that politicians should work their fucking ass off for the vote by actually having good policy, and despite Kamala claiming Trump "would rather run on fixing things rather than policy", literally nothing Kamala mentioned felt actually progressive despite her vaguely gesturing to going forward every other paragraph.
It is more than fair to want policy. However, you my friend are in the extreme minority of highly engaged American voters. The broader electorate doesn’t give a single damn about policy. Convicted felon Trump after 10 years still doesn’t have a single policy and he spent 4 of those years as President. Hillary Clinton had policy dissertations all throughout her campaign 2016. Bernie Samders in his presidential campaigns was good on policy. Neither of them won…. Policy don’t matter. Human political brain is just isn’t wired for it.
obviously dick cheney = bad
pointing out an endorsement from dick cheney is basically just intended to illustrate to low information independents/moderates, well hey if republicans endorsing a democrat, trump must really actually be that crazy. to some extent it may also play well with moderate old-school republicans who maybe actually liked bush and cheney, but truthfully the majority of that group was likely already team kamala before the endorsement, and has been never trump for the last decade. it's more likely to maybe better convince them to show up to vote or to vote for kamala rather than a throw away write in or something. that crowd wasn't really voting for trump though.
pointing out an endorsement from dick cheney is basically just intended to illustrate to low information independents/moderates, well hey if republicans endorsing a democrat, trump must really actually be that crazy. to some extent it may also play well with moderate old-school republicans who maybe actually liked bush and cheney, but truthfully the majority of that group was likely already team kamala before the endorsement, and has been never trump for the last decade. it's more likely to maybe better convince them to show up to vote or to vote for kamala rather than a throw away write in or something. that crowd wasn't really voting for trump though.
I must imagine that her fandom already skews pretty blue, but I guess it's nice.
no one has ever won a debate by responding to "you say a lot weird stuff at your rallies" with the counterpoint "they're eating pets in Ohio"
I don't really care about american voters, I'm more concerned on what it means for dick to be interested in endorsing harris, what it might imply about her policies (esp international ones which already have been dogshit) and how comfortable right wing dems are
Underestimate the Swifties at your own peril. They’ve learned football at an alarming rate.
I think this endorsement has more to do with Trump calling for televised military tribunals to investigate his daughter than anything to do with Kamala’s policies.
I feel like adjective is right tho that most swifties are already blue voters. maybe shes one of those tradwife favorites though, idk i dont keep track anymore...
and i forgot his beef with liz cheney lmfao. idk its still a bit worrying to me, the difference between lambasting trump vs approving of kamala. I don't think he'd do that to spite trumps tribunal desire if supporting kamala wasnt also a position that he agreed with in some way, would be too radical of a jump otherwise imo
If I'm taking Cheney for his word, it all ultimately comes down to the threat to democracy, January 6th type stuff.
If I'm being more cynical, old school republicans in the vein of Dick Cheney have pretty much two core beliefs:
1) low taxes and regulations etc, everything to do with "rugged individualism"
and
2) American national security, which in their particular view generally requires global supremacy and maintenance of the "rules based order"
there is only so far you can stray on issue 2 (re: NATO and Putin, re: ineffective policy on China) and still get their endorsement, especially if they are banking on the fact that a president has a lot more direct influence on issue 2 than issue 1, since issue 1 generally requires a unified congress. I assure you Cheney isn't voting for democrats down the whole ballot, just at the top and he'd prefer a red congress that prevents her from enacting anything else she wants to get done, but that he'd feel better about her handling of foreign policy than Trump kowtowing to dictators. He doesn't like Democrats' foreign policy either to be clear. Just more than Trump's.
If I'm being more cynical, old school republicans in the vein of Dick Cheney have pretty much two core beliefs:
1) low taxes and regulations etc, everything to do with "rugged individualism"
and
2) American national security, which in their particular view generally requires global supremacy and maintenance of the "rules based order"
there is only so far you can stray on issue 2 (re: NATO and Putin, re: ineffective policy on China) and still get their endorsement, especially if they are banking on the fact that a president has a lot more direct influence on issue 2 than issue 1, since issue 1 generally requires a unified congress. I assure you Cheney isn't voting for democrats down the whole ballot, just at the top and he'd prefer a red congress that prevents her from enacting anything else she wants to get done, but that he'd feel better about her handling of foreign policy than Trump kowtowing to dictators. He doesn't like Democrats' foreign policy either to be clear. Just more than Trump's.
Turnout and getting voters registered helps, even in ideologically homogeneous voter demos!
these (minus the last which is j wildly fantastical, the us imperialist army is never going to engage in military interventions against one of its key allies that is carrying out amerikkka's own imperial interests) are really the only thing that 'random' people in euro-amerika, myself included, 'should' be taking any space to speak to: demanding end all aid to the zionist entity, and 'solidarity' tactics such as (but not limited to) bds, oriented toward easing the conditions within which palestinians fight for their liberation.
what you or i or anyone in euroamerika who is not impacted "thinks about hamas" or any of the other white-humanist moralizing youve engaged in is thoroughly meaningless, we do not have enough either direct or indirect knowledge of material conditions in palestine to be taking positions on what any palestinian group "should" or "shouldnt" be doing, nor do we have any influence on such (thank the lord). "condemning hamas" is extremely orientalist/chauvinistic and generally embarassing af. "the blind alley that is Europe" to use cesaire's wording, which is directly responsible for 80 years of palestinian genocide, and its ideologies have nothing whatsoever to contribute to the palestinian liberation struggle. our responsibility in the imperial core is to fight to tear down the fascist societies we live in, and it is soooo ridiculous to suggest that people in the colonized world need to be adopting the euro-amerikan white-humanist "system of morality" that has been so devastating to everything it has touched.
'civilian' is a concept of international law, international law is an invention of euro-amerikan humanism as it has tried to position itself as a benevolent ideology since wwii, within which "fighting antisemitism" and other "civilizing" humanist campaigns have been used as trojan horses for imperialist violence; international law also is really nonexistent materially, as we see with the fact that the various ICJ decisions that the zionist entity is committing genocide do nothing beyond whatever discourse they generate. so it is perfectly valid for people to react to it along the lines of 'yea civilian is a meaningless designation for me'.
i want to add that while meaningless moralizing about hamas is not worth engaging with, defending in general the right of the oppressed to fight for liberation by any means necessary is worth something imo, not because palestinian resistance needs validation from white euro-amerika which it certainly does not; but because we face similar propoganda in local struggles when it comes to eg the massive state violence against 'blm' protesters within the so-called us (and especially in retaliation for the burning of the third precinct in minneapolis), and because of what we need to learn from palestinians struggling for liberation, including those whom white euro-amerika has the audacity to label as antisemitic. for example:
"Throughout much of the white euro-american left in general and the self-described ‘anti-fascist’ movement in particular, we hear quips like “if there’s a nazi at a table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 nazis” and “anytime, anyplace, punch a nazi in the face.” Then, a Jewish person sits at the table and white euro-american anti-fascists are forced to choose between philosemitism and anti-fascism. The white euro-american anti-fascists make their choice. Suddenly we should make distinctions about those at the table or should pay special attention to their sensitivities. Suddenly there’s a wrong time and a wrong place. Suddenly we must hold our fist, we must carefully choose our words. Suddenly a nazi is not a nazi."
"Though constantly accused of antisemitism, the anti-zionist resistance doesn’t have the luxury of being philosemitic. While the zionists, the fascists, the anti/philosemites and much of the white euro-american left differentiate between Jew and non-Jew, the anti-zionist resistance only differentiates between nazi and non-nazi."
if those of us within the imperial core are serious about struggling against fascism then we need to acknowledge that it oozes through every corner of 'our' society, "that there are hitlers everywhere and there’s hardly a single table in white euro-america without a nazi." the hegemonic both sides-ing of the palestinian liberation struggle occurs within a broader whitewashing of euro-amerikan fascism, that us imperialist genocides in palestine yemen iraq afghanistan as well as euro-amerikan 'internal' genocides against black and indigenous peoples are an aberration rather than the core political economy around which our societ(ies) revolve.
(https://emcohen.medium.com/the-only-way-out-is-through-e9f209d05338)
rather than the absurd presumption that white euro-amerikan 'antifascists' have some relevant "moral judgment" or anything else to contribute to the palestinian struggle, it is white euro-amerikan 'antifascists' who are thoroughly failing in our own tasks and it is we who must learn from them. we cannot give exemptions to certain fascists because they happen to be jewish or from any other group, or for whatever other reason trigger some sort of humanist response questioning whether a particular fascist or set of fascists 'should' be treated differently; for example, when here in los angeles protests of an event selling illegal settlement land was lambasted as anti semitic bc it was hosted by a synagogue, and much of the 'white anti fascist' response was tepid and equivocating at least initially. fascism has a strong presence in white euro-amerikan jewish communities, not because we have some particular inclination but because fascism has a strong presence in all of white euro-amerika and we are not somehow magically shielded from that just bc we are jewish. trying to make anti-fascism compatible with white humanism is not productive and neither is tiptoeing around the fact that fascist movements do include some people with whom 'we' share one or more 'identities'.
"Throughout much of the white euro-american left in general and the self-described ‘anti-fascist’ movement in particular, we hear quips like “if there’s a nazi at a table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 nazis” and “anytime, anyplace, punch a nazi in the face.” Then, a Jewish person sits at the table and white euro-american anti-fascists are forced to choose between philosemitism and anti-fascism. The white euro-american anti-fascists make their choice. Suddenly we should make distinctions about those at the table or should pay special attention to their sensitivities. Suddenly there’s a wrong time and a wrong place. Suddenly we must hold our fist, we must carefully choose our words. Suddenly a nazi is not a nazi."
"Though constantly accused of antisemitism, the anti-zionist resistance doesn’t have the luxury of being philosemitic. While the zionists, the fascists, the anti/philosemites and much of the white euro-american left differentiate between Jew and non-Jew, the anti-zionist resistance only differentiates between nazi and non-nazi."
if those of us within the imperial core are serious about struggling against fascism then we need to acknowledge that it oozes through every corner of 'our' society, "that there are hitlers everywhere and there’s hardly a single table in white euro-america without a nazi." the hegemonic both sides-ing of the palestinian liberation struggle occurs within a broader whitewashing of euro-amerikan fascism, that us imperialist genocides in palestine yemen iraq afghanistan as well as euro-amerikan 'internal' genocides against black and indigenous peoples are an aberration rather than the core political economy around which our societ(ies) revolve.
(https://emcohen.medium.com/the-only-way-out-is-through-e9f209d05338)
rather than the absurd presumption that white euro-amerikan 'antifascists' have some relevant "moral judgment" or anything else to contribute to the palestinian struggle, it is white euro-amerikan 'antifascists' who are thoroughly failing in our own tasks and it is we who must learn from them. we cannot give exemptions to certain fascists because they happen to be jewish or from any other group, or for whatever other reason trigger some sort of humanist response questioning whether a particular fascist or set of fascists 'should' be treated differently; for example, when here in los angeles protests of an event selling illegal settlement land was lambasted as anti semitic bc it was hosted by a synagogue, and much of the 'white anti fascist' response was tepid and equivocating at least initially. fascism has a strong presence in white euro-amerikan jewish communities, not because we have some particular inclination but because fascism has a strong presence in all of white euro-amerika and we are not somehow magically shielded from that just bc we are jewish. trying to make anti-fascism compatible with white humanism is not productive and neither is tiptoeing around the fact that fascist movements do include some people with whom 'we' share one or more 'identities'.
I haven't been keeping track of the US presidential race, how's Kamala doing compared to Biden?
Have you seen how many trump ads have been popping up lately? Trump is desperate.
Also, one of the pro trump ads listed a bunch of things Kamala harris was doing "wrong" but literally every single one made me support her more.
Also, one of the pro trump ads listed a bunch of things Kamala harris was doing "wrong" but literally every single one made me support her more.
I haven't been keeping track of the US presidential race, how's Kamala doing compared to Biden?
New to this thread and not living in U.S but interested in the major political events like the rallying/campaigns. So far as a bystander, it feels like, very popular democrat women running for president but will worryingly go into the fate of Hillary Clinton. Maybe. But so far I think as for lesser evils, Kamala is the way to go.
Cheney's endorsement and her promise to ensure that the US has the strongest, most lethal fighting force in the world points that she would be more of an interventionist which as a Latin American is worrying since very few US interventions in the region were beneficial to us.
Undoubtedly Harris lines up better than Trump.
A dead horse lines up better than Trump though. It's a very, very, very very, very low bar to come out looking worse than Trump.
Which, of course, Biden succeeded through being too old and inept.
I've now watched the "debate" and cannot grasp how some Americans see this man as being good for America. He has no good sides, no real opinions other than pseudo science, religious mumbo jumbo and just an insane amount of warmongering words and threats.
Oh, I forgot to mention constant lies, constant mumbling, rambling, and a whole load of what can only be described as faecal dribble.
So not so much a debate, as a highly educated woman arguing with an obvious idiot.
A dead horse lines up better than Trump though. It's a very, very, very very, very low bar to come out looking worse than Trump.
Which, of course, Biden succeeded through being too old and inept.
I've now watched the "debate" and cannot grasp how some Americans see this man as being good for America. He has no good sides, no real opinions other than pseudo science, religious mumbo jumbo and just an insane amount of warmongering words and threats.
Oh, I forgot to mention constant lies, constant mumbling, rambling, and a whole load of what can only be described as faecal dribble.
So not so much a debate, as a highly educated woman arguing with an obvious idiot.
Not a lot to disagree with here, I think it is now obvious to the whole world that this is a genocide (including the general public in the west, if not their political leaders - or maybe they are aware and want this to happen).
Israel is the problem, Israel needs reigning in by the USA. The USA right now is being lobbied heavily by the pro Israel lobby - don't take my word for it, it is actually happening - https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-and-congress - therefore the USA needs to either break free from the lobbying (generally, not just pro Israel lobbying) or the USA needs international pressure to stop it from supporting Israel in this genocide.
None of which is going to happen right now with the circus maximus, the election in the USA, ongoing.
Last edited:
Trump’s language this cycle is increasingly far-right coded, way more than in 2016. In 2016 he spoke in a very plain way that resonated with people, especially compared to the Obama/Warren wonky strategy. Now he’s the “victim” of a truth social echo chamber of his own design.
Kamala sounded so much more normal and understandable than Trump to medium to low information voters. If you follow politics closely the rightward trajectory of Trump’s rhetoric is a steady path from 2016 to now. For people who tune in every 4 years, it’s a rather jarring shift.
Cheney views trump as a threat to the deep state. Kamala is not. Right to Trumps point during the debate, he fired long serving bueocratics as opposed to the Biden administration not holding anyone responsible for the Afghanistan withdrawal as an example
Georgia resident here. You would not believe the amount of junk mail we’re getting for trump here. I have received this exact same flier like 4 times already.
I just want to check on my mail to see if my TCGplayer Pokémon cards are here yet dude. Why do I have to I have to see this rancid shit every time.
Campaign wise Harris is running the best Democratic campaign I’ve ever seen. Everything has been as good as one could expect; even down to the VP pick (Walz is S tier). The Harris campaign is a 100% upgrade from the Biden campaign.I haven't been keeping track of the US presidential race, how's Kamala doing compared to Biden?
However, I am of mindset that campaigns do not matter in US presidential elections. The election is a referendum on the incumbent administration. Let’s recap:
2000: (Gore really won) referendum on Bill Clinton’s success
2004: Bush re-elected - rally around the flag / Iraq War
2008: Referendum on Bush recession
2012: Obama re-elected, successful 1st term
2016: Trump elected (Obama’s second term was disastrous and nothing got accomplished)
2020: Biden elected (Trump lol)
2024: ???? (Biden had a successful 1st term)
- Status