...If I have to deconstruct the joke, it'd just defeat the punchline.
But yeah, Kyurem suspect next week? I'll see y'all then I suppose.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
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...If I have to deconstruct the joke, it'd just defeat the punchline.
But yeah, Kyurem suspect next week? I'll see y'all then I suppose.
perhaps it’s simply a bad joke then!
No comment on any suspect plans right now. When I know, you guys will know immediately thereafter.
I disagree with you, although it absolutely needs to go now, it was barely banned in gen 8 so there was plenty of reason to test it, and at first people thought sub was bad since it lost roost (which we now know is not the case)
honestly, if it barely dodged the banhammer pre-subtect it would absolutely get banned this time. I'm pretty confident atleast 20% of the people that voted do not ban last time are competent enough to realize a mon that fishes for freezes isn't exactly healthy
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there's also the fact that the main obstacle to its ban at the time was people arguing that kyurem was "necessary" to deal with rain… which vanished as a playstyle when we banned archaludon immediately afterward. and the fact that volcarona no longer exists and that was one of the things that could pretend to be a kyurem check. and the fact that gouging fire is banned so that's one less mon that can deter kyurem from coming in. kyurem was broken during the first suspect and every tiering action and meta development since then has made it less healthy. it's played us all for absolute fools this whole time and we need to kill it with hammers
Maybe due to kyurem and new ways its targets to counter can hit back (I.E. Tera-Grass Iron Moth due to heatran having low usage)
If Kyurem goes it definitely will get a lot better, it might even be broken then but that is in the distant future and depends on if Kyurem gets booted this time. I could see Waterpon spiraling out of control once Kyurem is removed, but enough talking about hypothetical futures, let's just focus on the current broken at hand
I don't believe Ogerpon-Wellspring will get THAT much better with Kyurem gone since Kyurem is slower and gets smited by Play Rough. Raging Bolt can do mostly the same thing by threatening a powerful Thunderbolt/Thunderclap even if it doesn't OHKO like Freeze-Dry does, and Raging Bolt also happens to be a lot more splashable than Kyurem is.
I don't think that waterpon will be the queen of the tier once Kyurem leaves (the new monarch will probably be Raging Bolt, which is neutral to her since she can Encore / Play Rough but she can't truly switch in) but she will definetly get stronger
Waterpon is definitely not an overt issue to the tier. It's good but no better than bolt or zam or especially gambit
If it's any food for thought - the highest ranking on the VR doesn't always equate to being in suspect crosshairs. Gothitelle in early ORAS was B+ when Shadow Tag got put up for suspect, I don't recall (correct me if I'm wrong) Gfire being in either designation of S rank before it's ban (?), and I remember back in SM voting Zygarde for S rank, getting shot down and banned shortly after - and then it was suspected and banned sometime in mid 2018 (USUM period). That's what is going to make a post Kyurem suspect guess harder to make (and that's assuming we even need one).
Also I know this isn't the place to say this, but... can these forums stay up for two goddamn seconds? I get you're probably migrating infrastructure, but Jesus...
Also I know this isn't the place to say this, but... can these forums stay up for two goddamn seconds? I get you're probably migrating infrastructure, but Jesus...
Correct. It was both A and A+ at different points
>Me getting complemented by Finch for getting a post 'correct' for once (it was mostly a random guess):
In all seriousness, I find suspect choices like this profusely interesting – as it implies that contenders for S tier do not designate their viability to any one specific playstyle (I'd wager this was another reason I was shot down on that Zygarde nom way back when?). I mean yeah, Zygarde in USUM/SS and the recent 'uncounterable' Gfire (I put that in quotation marks because there was stuff like Dondozo and Tickle Alomomola that could soft wall it) weren't things you were going to see on Stall (although I'd wager some madlad would have been able to make it work), but that beggars the question how many playstyles a mon would have to be viable on in order to be there (Gambit and Zama being at the top of the current list implies to me Balance, BO and HO all having some kind of place to eat at. Even Great Tusk makes use of those first two, albeit to a slightly lesser extent).
I suppose a slightly more microcosmic example would be ORAS Mega Sableye, to wit I'm not surprised there were 'anti-Stall conspiracies' levied at the council because, as dumb as my own posts on the matter were (and I will probably regret them for the rest of my days), I think we can all collectively agree that the timing of that latter suspect... was kinda braindead, especially with the post-"relevance" ORAS meta banning Arena Trap anyway (again, if I'm not mistaken? I think it was FSG that bought it up). Point being, MSab was stall only (and maybe Semi-Stall when you consider the time Hoopa-U was giving the tier whiplash that made Mira's rough roads do the default dance at it's grave), whereas AT allowed Duggy to function on a multitude of playstyles as a 'pick and choose your MUs' mon. Neither were in those S tiers to my knowledge.
I… didn’t really have a point to make here, I just found all that interesting. Although on that note… what does Semi-Stall look like in Gen 9? I should probably try to build one at some point.
I agree with you. I just think DLC2 has been sort of an unruly tier in a gen defined by boardline maybe/maybe not broken pokemon. Kyurem and Darkrai, along with the new mons from this gen sent it over the edge imo and limited slower playstyles for quite a bit. I know the council doesn’t tier with mid level players in mind (and they shouldn’t) but I think this gen in general it made it very difficult for people who weren’t already good to improve. Allowing mons that over half of the voter base would say are broken but can’t quite get a supermajority made that worse.
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Semi stall currently mainly houses 4 stall mons coupled with Kyurem and Cinderace. Would be interested in seeing it other variations
Lot of tera blast in that video. I agree kyurem is the most annoying to fight right now and would be ok with a ban. But would volcarona and no stored power magearna make it less annoying? Maybe not. But I'd still prefer we try to axe tera blast first. I don't know if it would work but it's a concept of a plan. :)
I'd wager a dual suspect of Kyurem & Tera Blast (see ORAS suspect of MSab and STag) is completely out of the question?
Also peepeepoopoo722 I'm guessing you were the madlad who suggested looking into Stored Power on the survey? Because I thought that was in the context of Espathra and not Magearna (still, massive hats of to you if you were the one to suggest the move getting looked into).
Also peepeepoopoo722 I'm guessing you were the madlad who suggested looking into Stored Power on the survey? Because I thought that was in the context of Espathra and not Magearna (still, massive hats of to you if you were the one to suggest the move getting looked into).
genuinely curious, what makes a stored powerless
ok to drop? it has no reason to run sp since its non stab and psychic isn't very good coverage, it'd rather just run dual stab with cm/shift gear. cm isn't even required since it can just come in on smth low health, and either kill it and get the soul-heart boost, or click shift gear and use its decent bulk, great typing, and good spatk, to overwhelm whatever tried to switchin.also, ive never understood, how is
balanced without tblast? sure it loses some coverage, but its still clicking the tera button in order to get 1-2 quiver dances for free, and end the game asap, with it legit just being better at stealing a game than 
. liking a mon shouldn't be used as a reason to let it back in the tier. also, its not like tera blast is smth that every mon runs for coverage, it typically is very low, often straight up not appearing on the usage stats for a mon, or whenever it does appear, it stays around 9-25% usage, it only gets higher on 
at 34%, and 
at 69% (nice).
I just met a Kyurem that went Dragon Dance, Icicle Spear, Tera Blast fairy and I still had no idea whether it was max SpA Freeze Dry or max Attack Outrage/Scale Shot. This thing really does have some set diversity huh.
Dragon Dance with SpA EVs lets you switch your Tera Blast from special to physical right? I never realised if that's the case.
Dragon Dance with SpA EVs lets you switch your Tera Blast from special to physical right? I never realised if that's the case.
Great defensive typing combined with tera made boosts stupid easy and stored power was the scariest set of Magearna to face. Without stored power it is an A mon that can add a lot to the tier defensively- great, but not likely broken. I don't want to harp on this- it has been covered for a few months and I know we don't want to derail the thread too much when there are off topic jokes to be made constantly instead.genuinely curious, what makes a stored powerless
also, ive never understood, how is
Heatran for one walls Volcarona without Tera Blast- and will greatly assist other mons- takes away a great deal from 'match up moth'
I don't 'like' volcarona- but I do believe in the necessity to reevaluate our philosophy and consider the ecosystem rather than -problem now-. This is a growing sentiment that I'm not alone in. Lurk more if this is your first time seeing these ideas. Tera Blast has broken a few and assisted in breaking others- but the unpredictability and match up fishing is generally consisered not competitive. It has ranked medium on the survey just behind Kyurem itself. It may then rank below Woger when Kyurem is banned and we may never look at Tera Blast as it continues down the line. I think the time is ripe, personally. But I'm no one and I hope more prominent members continue to speak up.
Thanks
Tera blast is definitely not healthy but I think Kyurem should be dealt with first as it is definitely a huge issue. But after that dealing with tera blast is fine by me.
Yeah it is probably the only mon worth a retest at the moment, also banded rillaboom actually kind of deals with palafin too, and with increased counterplay I see a chance that it could be fine. But I think we have bigger things to take care of right now.
palafin was one of the first things banned in a meta with a massively higher power level than this one, and at the time there were only like two sets for it. i guarantee that if it ever gets unbanned more sets will be discovered that will break it even further. it has the kind of power and bulk that you can just slap any defensive tera on it and sit there outdamaging whatever the so-called checks are. wanna beat both bolt and waterpon and also rillaboom while you're at it? go for tera grass, and maybe even slot on tblast for mola and dozo. speaking of mola, are we ready for palafin with wish support so you can't even wear it down? are we ready for palafin in the sleep moves clause meta where amoonguss, one of the closest things it had to a defensive check, is no longer viable? are we ready for palafin with an actually good webs setter? and considering any theoretical palafin test would likely be taking place well after other tiering action, are we ready for the potential of palafin in a meta without kyurem? without waterpon, even, if the meta progresses in such a way? why the hell did they remove the spooky theme? these are the kinds of questions we have to be asking ourselves
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