Serious The Politics Thread

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You point it out incessantly when people try to discuss all the ways that democrats enable the problems, too. Literally zero people here besides that one trump supporter who barely posts think republicans are good, but you keep going back to “well republicans are worse” whenever someone levels any criticism at dems.
 
I don't really like the two party system, but in terms of which one I am closest to, I think I am closer to a Republican. But I doubt there will ever be a single Republican candidate I will ever root for, because they are all cartoonishly evil. The Republican party itself runs deep with conservatism, to the point where most people assume that if you are a Republican, you are automatically a minority kicking psychopath, because that's all anyone representing it is. I long for the day "my party" is completely dismantled. Even if you don't agree with all the democrats policies, it's time to cut your losses and abandon the sinking ship, because the captain is a bigoted moron who steered us straight into the rocks.
 
I don't really like the two party system, but in terms of which one I am closest to, I think I am closer to a Republican. But I doubt there will ever be a single Republican candidate I will ever root for, because they are all cartoonishly evil. The Republican party itself runs deep with conservatism, to the point where most people assume that if you are a Republican, you are automatically a minority kicking psychopath, because that's all anyone representing it is. I long for the day "my party" is completely dismantled. Even if you don't agree with all the democrats policies, it's time to cut your losses and abandon the sinking ship, because the captain is a bigoted moron who steered us straight into the rocks.

If we can sink the Republicans we can grow out the Democrats and eventually split it into Progressive and Liberal parties, this time educating the American public that Liberal actually properly means center right. I'd be more than fine if our politics was centered around a party of Manchins vs a Party of Bernies.
 
If we can sink the Republicans we can grow out the Democrats and eventually split it into Progressive and Liberal parties, this time educating the American public that Liberal actually properly means center right. I'd be more than fine if our politics was centered around a party of Manchins vs a Party of Bernies.
"educating" and "American" don't go together
 
You point it out incessantly when people try to discuss all the ways that democrats enable the problems, too. Literally zero people here besides that one trump supporter who barely posts think republicans are good, but you keep going back to “well republicans are worse” whenever someone levels any criticism at dems.
It is brought up when someone for example blames the current administration for inflation. If this is the well-read left-leaning discussion then I would think we know that inflation has been a global problem caused by supply shortages during the pandemic. Yet again, these are people on the left blaming the Democrats for it. Why am I not supposed to point out the cause?
But I’m sure you actually understand what they’re saying despite the snark and without the above comments— that on the left we believe that these market dynamics suggest strongly that many essential goods should be decommodified; like policing, firefighting, Elementary school already are, or what Medicare for All would do to Healthcare.
Yes I agree. It just on housing I believe we all have a right to affordable housing but that doesn’t necessarily mean right to a family dwelling in NYC / LA / Bay Area / DC / Miami, etc.
 
Yes I agree. It just on housing I believe we all have a right to affordable housing but that doesn’t necessarily mean right to a family dwelling in NYC / LA / Bay Area / DC / Miami, etc.
When it comes to de-commodification, we can do full universal or we can do public option. I don't think there'd be as much angst in society or as much crazy demand in the full home market if guaranteed comfortable and accessible apartment units were a universally available public option guaranteed for all. Only some would buy homes, and it would be much more affordable for them to do so if we take out a ton of the demand in the system-- the luxury of houses stays commodified but the necessity of housing is decommodified. You leave behind a market with an elastic demand curve, and a better society.

And of course we would want to have more of that guaranteed housing near our major economic centers where we can put the labor to work. Companies like Google pay do much to keep their workers at the office longer— of course it’s better for productivity if we can cut down commutes.

Same as, in Japan their Universal Healthcare only covers 70% of the tab, and there is a private insurance market-- but cost of supplemental private insurance and the 30% to the consumers/citizens is puny because the government already used monopoly negotiation power to hammer prices down. Meanwhile they have shorter weight times, longer life expediencies, and universal direct access to specialists.

A mixed system can work well with a universally available and effective nationalized portion.
 
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I don't really like the two party system, but in terms of which one I am closest to, I think I am closer to a Republican. But I doubt there will ever be a single Republican candidate I will ever root for, because they are all cartoonishly evil. The Republican party itself runs deep with conservatism, to the point where most people assume that if you are a Republican, you are automatically a minority kicking psychopath, because that's all anyone representing it is. I long for the day "my party" is completely dismantled. Even if you don't agree with all the democrats policies, it's time to cut your losses and abandon the sinking ship, because the captain is a bigoted moron who steered us straight into the rocks.
So, let me get this straight...
You describe the republican party as:
- Generally terrible politicians
- Generally terrible or massively under/misinformed voter base who they almost exclusively try to appeal to
- Upholding an ideology you do not believe in

And yet you're comfortable saying you'd associate with them? Even by comparison? You don't have to choose to like either party more, you can just say their evils are uncomparable and/or similar (though, personally, i think democrats are a far lesser evil if i was forced to choose, but i would never say our interests align) in nature and move on...
I don't understand why you'd call them "your party" when you don't have any common ground. Although you may agree with its foundations, isn't a party defined at a point in time by the politicians it has and their policies? Feels weird to say it's not something along those lines

Finally,
"(...) it's time to cut your [republicans'] losses and abandon the sinking ship, because the captain is a bigoted moron who steered us straight into the rocks."
would you suggest that the past republican candidates were also not leading america into the same iceberg, albeit at a slower pace?

So then the question arises,
(...) most people assume that if you are a Republican, you are automatically a minority kicking psychopath."
Then what else is there to call yourself a republican for, if not everything the party stands for? Not meaning to strawman, but is it just for the sake of "i am not a democrat"? I really do not understand, unless you mean you agree with their pre-2016 economical policies which to be frank are not all that different in intent from now
 
So, let me get this straight...
You describe the republican party as:
- Generally terrible politicians
- Generally terrible or massively under/misinformed voter base who they almost exclusively try to appeal to
- Upholding an ideology you do not believe in

And yet you're comfortable saying you'd associate with them? Even by comparison? You don't have to choose to like either party more, you can just say their evils are uncomparable and/or similar (though, personally, i think democrats are a far lesser evil if i was forced to choose, but i would never say our interests align) in nature and move on...
I don't understand why you'd call them "your party" when you don't have any common ground. Although you may agree with its foundations, isn't a party defined at a point in time by the politicians it has and their policies? Feels weird to say it's not something along those lines

Finally,

would you suggest that the past republican candidates were also not leading america into the same iceberg, albeit at a slower pace?

So then the question arises,

Then what else is there to call yourself a republican for, if not everything the party stands for? Not meaning to strawman, but is it just for the sake of "i am not a democrat"? I really do not understand, unless you mean you agree with their pre-2016 economical policies which to be frank are not all that different in intent from now
I don't consider myself either party, because I hate the two party system in general, but the main principles of the Republican Party align with my beliefs more than those of the democrats. In that sense, I am more Republican than Democrat. But I recognize that the Republican party I tolerate is long dead, with its corpse being paraded around by bigots who care not for what the party is supposed to stand for.
 
You don’t have to align with parties. You can align with your own ideals and vote accordingly. For presidential elections this will almost always mean vote democrat for reasonable people. Other local elections/referendums are more split. Believe it or not, not all issues on the ballots are partisan. Just vote for what you think is correct
 
Source? Citation?

(At least one that isn’t entirely paywalled, and not apparently related to your “experts are always wrong” line of thinking)
https://time.com/6222645/us-recession-forecast/

The saying is an old quote by Paul Samuelson (“economists have predicted 9 out of the last 5 recessions”). There are always recession indicators flashing, inverted yield curves, the Sahm rule, weakness in employment metrics and some economic sectors etc if you look hard enough. And each recession is a different beast, with different causes. You can really only call a recession in hindsight.

Since 2020 the US economy survived multiple large interest rate hikes to pre-2008 levels. That was supposed to cause a recession. There was a plausible liquidity crisis in early 2023. That was supposed to cause a recession. Experts in economics are not always wrong about most economic subjects; folks publicly predicting are recessions are almost always wrong.
 
I don't consider myself either party, because I hate the two party system in general, but the main principles of the Republican Party align with my beliefs more than those of the democrats. In that sense, I am more Republican than Democrat. But I recognize that the Republican party I tolerate is long dead, with its corpse being paraded around by bigots who care not for what the party is supposed to stand for.
This is a non answer to the post prior, though. It ended by saying, even if you claim to support solely pre 2016 policy positions, they were in intent exactly as racist and fascist as they are now, but only disguised themselves marginally better to centrists by saying immigrants "stole our jobs" rather than "are coming into our communities and stealing and eating your pets."

The only functional difference between pre and post Trump Republicanism is the mask off levels of racism and open dickriding for the rich
 
This is a non answer to the post prior, though. It ended by saying, even if you claim to support solely pre 2016 policy positions, they were in intent exactly as racist and fascist as they are now, but only disguised themselves marginally better to centrists by saying immigrants "stole our jobs" rather than "are coming into our communities and stealing and eating your pets."

The only functional difference between pre and post Trump Republicanism is the mask off levels of racism and open dickriding for the rich
yeah, no this didn't start with trump, he just escalated it.
 
Which principles?
Mainly the economic policies.

What I think you are actually saying is "what are your abortion opinions" and buddy, I am not stepping on that landmine. No matter what I say, someone will try to kill me for it. One side is calling the other misogynists, the other is calling the other baby killers, and you think people wont fight each other over it? Yeah, hard pass.
 
What I think you are actually saying is "what are your abortion opinions"

No, I was trying to figure out which conservative principles you subscribe to after acknowledging that you don't agree with the ideology or general direction of the GOP, as at face value those two statements appear to contradict each other.

Do you want to talk about some of the conservative economic policies you support?
 
The problem with housing has nothing to do with actual numbers of houses and is fully to do with capitalism.
I think it's very funny how like 6 people liked the "the housing market is the problem" but no one liked this. I think it's a good reminder to myself that we don't really talk much about economics in this thread, and "Leftist" in this thread is basically just read through social terms.

Shit, that's probably why the "liberals are left wing" thing had literally any weight.

Anywho, I am a socialist.

It's fucking funny to acknowledge the housing crisis but not see capitalism of the issue, like we don't live in a world where an economic system that requires exploitation and encourages exploitation of humans will exploit humans through housing.

The commodification of housing is honestly very funny. It's also gross. It is one of the most basic requirements of survival, it is literally protection from the elements. But it's a requirement for our system because capitalism requires people to be threatened with death in order to make underpaid, poor workers feel like they don't have a choice. Because they don't.

If you believe in capitalism, you are the problem with housing.
 
I think it's very funny how like 6 people liked the "the housing market is the problem" but no one liked this. I think it's a good reminder to myself that we don't really talk much about economics in this thread, and "Leftist" in this thread is basically just read through social terms.

I didn't even see your second post to be honest, and honestly like I've said before I see no value in interrogating which posts are and aren't being liked. You're reading tea leaves at this point, sometimes people like posts because they're funny or out of some weird contrarian need to signal boost ideas that are getting "dogpiled" (even if for good reason...) even if they ostensibly don't agree with them, sometimes people don't like posts because they simply didn't see them, or their neurons didn't fire in such a pattern to compel them to press the internet point button. It means nothing and nothing can reliably be inferred from it.
 
I’ve been fairly grumpy and angry about what’s happening in Palestine by Israel on Palestine for a year at this point. Now we have Linda Greenfield-Thomas, the US ambassador to the UN, popping up to say this:

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...mount-of-focus-on-israel-in-un-says-us-envoy/

The US Permanent Representative to the United Nations, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, accused the UN of “inordinately over-focus” on Israel, which has killed more than 41,100 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip since 7 October, saying that “there is an unfair amount of focus on Israel”, Anadolu Agency reports.

“I think that we have an Israel problem in the UN. And there is an inordinately over-focus on Israel – even before Gaza – in the UN. It’s something that we have raised on a regular basis,” said Thomas-Greenfield during an event at the Council on Foreign Relations late Thursday.

“There is no other country in the world that has a monthly meeting on the (Security) Council’s agenda going back decades,” the US envoy said, describing the “unfair amount of focus on Israel in the UN” as “problematic”.

Asked about recognising the Palestinian State, Thomas-Greenfield gave an evasive response as she claimed that “a state has certain responsibilities for its people, and I do not believe the Palestinians, as they exist right now, have all of the elements to give it statehood.

Like - my god, how insensitive and infuriating. The reason Israel is on there repeatedly is repeated human rights violations, death and destruction where the Palestinians are concerned. Everyone is focused on it because it far outstrips any societal norms.

Take the death toll, Whether you think it’s 41,000 or “because humus” half that at 20,000, the death toll of civilians but specifically children is too high and is almost the same as Ukraine Russia, which has been going on for a year and a half more than that.

I won’t go back through the long list of war crimes Israel has committed, just go back through my posts if you really need, but there’s so much f ing evidence at this point that we need a more than monthly meeting to discuss them on Israel, quite frankly.

Over focus on Israel - is she blind to the crimes?

A lot of folks online are asking how, with her specific heritage coming from slavery (something she and I share, my maternal grandmother only a couple of generations out of a plantation in Grenada) she can see what is happening in Israel and be like this. My response to that - I just don’t know. I am stunned at her line of defence of Israel, which includes by the way, being the one to physically veto UN Resolutions repeatedly in the last 11 months (it would be unfair to place her at the heart of that, but it is true she represented it).

I am honestly just appalled at the way the USA runs defence for Israel on unforgivable acts. Truly monstrous.
 
I didn't even see your second post to be honest, and honestly like I've said before I see no value in interrogating which posts are and aren't being liked. You're reading tea leaves at this point, sometimes people like posts because they're funny or out of some weird contrarian need to signal boost ideas that are getting "dogpiled" (even if for good reason...) even if they ostensibly don't agree with them, sometimes people don't like posts because they simply didn't see them, or their neurons didn't fire in such a pattern to compel them to press the internet point button. It means nothing and nothing can reliably be inferred from it.
Fair enough. I don't actually care much about likes or anything, though I do tend to notice who likes certain types of posts in the thread a lot. The only reason I really noticed is because I saw the two posts next to each other while reading through and saw that, and thought about why.

My interpretation of people not seeing my point in the follow-up is not logical, you're right. It's not like I like every post I've agreed with either, let alone do I read every post. To be honest, it's midnight, and I'm being stupid.

If people interpret my character negatively over me writing that post, that probably makes sense lol, it wasn't thought-out well, and looking at the reactions to a post probably seems vain.

I won't delete the post because I do think it's good to bring up the morals involved in housing as economics, regardless. I haven't read too intently today because of other stuff going on, but I didn't see much about the actual morality of housing under capitalism. Still gonna go to bed though.
 
my prior post got deleted with no explanation and i still have no clue what we're actually allowed to talk about here and what we aren't given that any attempt to discuss the actual space we are in gets deleted while people admitting they're low-effort trolling or just gargling trump's balls goes by unchallenged

unban juoean or close this farcical thread
 
my prior post got deleted with no explanation and i still have no clue what we're actually allowed to talk about here and what we aren't given that any attempt to discuss the actual space we are in gets deleted while people admitting they're low-effort trolling or just gargling trump's balls goes by unchallenged

unban juoean or close this farcical thread
I'm playing a little catchup here so I apologize; a message should have been sent to juoean last night when the trigger was pulled that's our fault; juoean made it abundantly clear, even after our prior interaction and DM, that they have next to no interest in discussing anything that isn't internal Smogon politics and white knighting for you, and chose to continue to instigate that the only thing worth talking about is how the Smogon mods' abuse of power is somehow ruining everyone's enjoyment of this site and community. This isn't what the thread is for, that much should be obvious to anyone with a brain cell. Why would we allow people to "discuss" this sort of thing on here? This isn't a community tribunal where mods from across the site need to continually defend their actions, especially from a cabal of users that seem perpetually unsatisfied with any response given anyway. The appeals forum is available for this kind of thing.

Like, myself and awyp are almost entirely unaffiliated and unfamiliar with the prior goings-on with you and other users in this thread, yet we've been met with almost nothing but extreme hostility from users in and out of this thread simply for the crime of existing in a space where tensions run high and trying to provide an area where discussions and venting about IRL events are impacting us as a community in a real way. We're both fairly casual users of this thread and forum and are moderating it out of a desire to keep the forum growing and myself am looking for dedicated users to take my place and I can continue to enjoy my retirement of over a decade of being in this community and caring about the users that use it. I personally have no desire nor interest in dealing with someone that has a giant chip on their shoulder and solely wants to talk about how something from a year ago was apparently so detrimental that they literally cannot move on with their life but to continually bring it up at every opportunity and to insinuate that I personally am at fault for a thousand years of pain and anguish that it wrought.

I don't know what other response I can truly give other than this and to say to please how about everyone move on and instead use this thread to talk about politics and if your only goal is to come in here and shit on other users to maybe reconsider and instead just fucking close the thread and go play pokemon instead
 
The things that are done in this space are themselves political and if you want to be immune to critique for your direction of power and the power relations in this thread then step down from moderating and enjoy your retirement. The personal is political, too, and as several other people have pointed out, that includes who gets moderated and how and when and how intensely. My first interaction in this thread was writing a rather long 3-paragraph post, and because I used the word "insufferable" about someone's opinion one time you deleted a third of it and threatened me with a ban from the thread if I did anything else you deemed problematic. Meanwhile, boo constantly attacked others for months getting only warnings and warnings and finally an infract here and there, MrHands outright admits she's trolling and not having a good faith discussion, and that one feraligatr trump guy is a blatant one-liner troll. It's very obvious that the moderation comes down harder on genuine radical left-wing politics that don't fall neatly into milquetoast liberalism - are you so thin-skinned you can't handle juoean being critical of the moderation structure at all when everything she's been saying is well-informed and well-argued? My assumption about you from your limited posting and when you choose to step in is that you skew liberal (decidedly not far-left but also obviously not a fascist) - aren't you people all about "marketplace of ideas" and "debate" and whatever? That seems to be your ideal of what this thread is, and despite her distaste for it she did the exact thing that you ostensibly want this thread to be about, except she was also critical of the way moderation on this site is structured and the uneven and heavy-handed use of it in this thread and other threads (including the other politics thread and various other spaces).

Please tell me where the "tribunal" and "cabal" are, by the way, I'm genuinely curious. You've been met with hostility toward your actions, not you personally - I could not give less of a fuck about you in either direction, personally, and every time I've seen awyp post has been fine, so idk why they're being dragged into this. People are saying your actions are misguided or wrong and asking for a different action. If that's so awful and untenable, you better close the thread, because I have bad news for you about what is going to happen in a thread that is explicitly about politics every single time you say or do anything, ever, regardless of where it's aimed at. I don't know any simpler or more direct way to state the problem people have than this: the moderation is unevenly applied, stifles good discussion any time there's a hint of passion or emotion behind it, lets people who are more aligned with mainstream western politics (neoliberal politics) have far more leeway, and has a fantasy ideal of what a "politics thread" should be that has no real-world applicability and somehow expects us to disentangle very real -isms people experience everywhere, including on this site and in this thread, from the theoretical politics you want to "allow" us to discuss. juoean repeatedly pointed to actual real experiences that happened to real people while using this site and you're essentially dismissing them as not worth discussing. I find the use of the word "tribunal" especially interesting when she was talking about the processes and contexts - as far as I recall, there was no point that she was calling for your resignation or whatever else you mean to imply with that word choice, she was simply pointing out the actions of moderation in a system that facilitates moderation being applied in this way.

Smogon's a big site and nobody has any illusions about the fact that it has to maintain some degree of "neutrality" (it's a facade, but whatever) and being a space where "politics" don't exist outside of a dedicated thread, so then you have to define politics as being stuff like elections and world leaders and specific big social issues, so then this thread becomes a bunch of circlejerk discussion about federal policy and elections and whatever while we pretend that politics is all up there, over our heads, and not a part of everyday life and every single interaction that happens between people. If juoean wasn't banned she could probably come up with some better and more directly applicable idea in all this text I just dumped that probably will be dissected without actually getting at what I'm trying to say, but my TLDR is that her contributions were good, criticisms of structures on Smogon are fine, actually, including right here, and if you disagree with that then your thread is just a sports thread but for politics, where people argue about who's going to win and by what amount and far-off things that none of us have any tangible influence on. Critiquing what is actually done on this site is an opportunity for the site and the people on it to be better, and how we interact with others radiates outwards and impacts still more people. The way all this was handled is starkly negative and I can feel that impact in how I respond to you, but I'm going to try to change that tone at the end of this. Do you really not want things to be better than that? I'd like them to be better than that instead of maintaining some illusory civility and distance from the subjects at hand. I would actually like things to improve in one little space I'm in instead of 100% of attention having to go toward bemoaning world leaders and genocides and fighting off fascist apologia, and I hope we could actually make that part of the space.
 
MrHands outright admits she's trolling and not having a good faith discussion

Uhh, what. I never said that. I said the average poster here is unwilling to discuss anything outside of their leftist safe space views so attempting to have any real discussion outside of far left is relatively pointless.

In fact if you're so genuinely upset by a small Pokémon forum politics thread that you have to angrily wall of text calling out users who aren't even involved in your rant I suggest you take a break and go do something else. Nothing anyone posts here matters. Relax.
 
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