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Good faith discussions are possible if people are willing to provide proper citations and actually address points in a thoughtful way, without resorting to personal attacks (and yes, I have been guilty of that too out of frustration, I will do my best to step back and think more).
No, please don’t. This thread has been a lifeline for me. I have been able to speak with like minded and those not so like minded and learn lots of things outside of my own sphere.
If that becomes the main point of the thread - being able to step outside of our respective comfort zones and try and see clearly how others think, then it is something that can improve Smogon and its communities.
I welcome the debates, the arguing, I just get incensed by the lack of citations. But not everyone is academic/applies academic rigour (and maybe we shouldn’t exempt them from taking part from not doing so, either.
Perhaps we could just have a bit of a tweak of what is acceptable and what’s not, to allow everyone to post in the best faith they can?
And if I may be so bold - on the subject of Palestine (it is not just Gaza any longer) noting a couple of Palestinian Pokemon fans among us, and I know we have Israeli ones here too. We need to be mindful about their collective mental health and do our best to be factual and careful in our wording.
That should not stop us from all wanting a peaceful solution in the middle east.
So a vote and a plea from me - please keep this thread open. It is needed and it is keeping me and others like me, sane, through discussion and openness.
Alright, all this shit has given me a migraine, but I will give this a good faith attempt.
The discussion juoean was opening was not "Oglemi did a bad thing" or "X moderator on Y subforum did a bad thing." Those are political, but I won't delve into it because it's not relevant to the point. The point that juoean was addressing is how this site is structured, including things like the way the hierarchy is designed, the way infractions are designed, who is given power and why, when and why people are stripped of power (something you directly weaponized in a snide comment at me), and how the power is used. All of these are very, very directly political, and they are reflections of how politics operate in the world around you. Do you think the structures on this site arose in a vacuum, springing fully-formed from the mind of chaos or something? They're a reflection of the world around us, past and present, and they can be changed in a way that aligns with a better future.
Again, the point isn't a specific action, it's the structures that enable and encourage these actions, but even putting that aside, people can and do call out ignorance all the time and cause people to reevaluate. I've pointed out ableist/body shaming rhetoric in this thread by people multiple times and caused them to reevaluate, it doesn't have to be just about punishing people till they stop doing the bad thing.
No clue what doxxing refers to here, talking about something problematic someone did isn't doxxing, but again, it's not about specific people, it's about systems. What several people are complaining of now isn't "why is X user not banned?" It's "why are users espousing XYZ views allowed to troll, drop one-liners, and play with rhetoric without engaging while users with ABC views are constantly being deleted and threatened with bans?" The answer to that question in our minds, believe it or not, is not "Oglemi is an evil fascist," it's "the structures and norms of Smogon take heavy influence from the world at large and create heavy pressure toward normalizing neoliberal rhetoric with some (but not too much) social progressivism. The structures of the world at large normalize these positions as reasonable, emotionless/logical, and good while painting views outside of this as extreme, unreasonable, emotionally-charged (which we are taught makes them invalid), and often violent (which again, we are taught inherently makes them bad), and almost anybody in your position is going to default to upholding the norm."
What would be the problem with dealing with something that affects the site and organizing people to create change on it? The site has affected me in quite a number of ways that are extremely politically-charged, like that time I got demodded in October for expressing that Palestinians have the right to violently resist genocide. At the time I said it, this was treated as an incredibly extreme view and the way the site operated at that time had me get backdoored out of of my mod position in ways I don't care to go into here, which was directly an act of racism that would have never happened to a white person. In the year since, people have come around and this is no longer a severely controversial opinion to have. These things matter to people's health and well-being and whether they feel safe or welcome in spaces like this. The fact that the tides of opinion on this issue changed is a big part of the reason I didn't leave this site after that sequence of events and my treatment here (alongside a plethora of difficult life events outside here) led me to a suicide attempt.
I copied a line from the last quote here too because I think I'm seeing where the miscommunication is. We're conflating Smogon-related stuff with drama because it's being viewed as being about individuals, not systems. The thing is, what's a clear distinction to you is not for people who are marginalized in multiple ways. Politics is not just the big national stuff or the big "ism" topics - we are playing out a political struggle right now in this conversation, you and I and anyone else involved. There is nothing about this that is drama to me, it's power relations playing out in a pretty direct way when two trans women with zero power on this site get silently banned and their posts deleted because their opinions are too far outside the acceptable status quo. In juoean's case, I know you think it's about being off-topic, but it isn't; her critique of what is happening is very much grounded in her far-left political stances that she has taken in this thread previously and are fully logically consistent, they're just a direct application of the big broad political beliefs she has on a microcosmic scale like this site. She's the only other person posting in this thread that I actually know beyond a surface level so I feel a bit more confident to speak to her intent/reasoning (still may be off on some things), and the idea of her seeking drama is patently absurd - she is critiquing a structure and could not give less of a shit about what the people in it personally think or what their individual morals are.
I understand that you're very thoroughly embedded in the system of politics happening on Smogon given how long you've been here, but surely you see how there's nothing new under the sun here and all of the politics that happen here reflect reality outside of this site, right? I brought up what happened to me in October as a pretty direct mirror (on a miniature scale) of what happens to those who say anything supportive of Palestine online or offline in other spaces, but it's not just that. Being a woman online fucking sucks, a trans woman even more so - chasers and weird men messaging you to ask "r u a girl???" exist in this space just as much as others. Being an Arab and Palestinian online sucks, because now I'm representing all of my people whenever I say anything and I'm hyperscrutinized on everything I say for potential antisemitism, I'm subject to racist comments and assumptions, and if people agree with me half the time it's just because of my identity and not because of what I'm saying. Being queer online sucks, because I get fetishized and god forbid I ever make a joke about something to do with my identity without cishet men being gross about it, and again I'm expected to represent all trans people and to be okay with invasive questions about my genitalia, HRT, and whatever else. These things play out on Smogon, too, and just reporting every person who does it is not a solution, and talking about it in spaces like this helps well-meaning but ignorant people learn and grow. Despite what a shitshow this thread is, I am sure at least one person out there has learned something new and useful from reading some of the excellent posts here by people like Martin or juoean or lilyhollow (who is still getting unfairly maligned and should also be allowed to post again, though I'm sure saying that will do me no favors). The pattern of behavior here of banning or threatening to ban people then flat out saying untrue things about them and misrepresenting them, even when evidence exists to the contrary, does not make me feel safe, it feels like a replication of the kind of violence and censorship I get in the offline world, and that's worth talking about and very directly political.
There was no victim complex behind it at all. I simply said that I can't leave my personal stuff behind at the door as "not political" or "not relevant to how this space functions" - I mean, you can go back a few pages and see people discussing my identity as essentially a basis for whether or not my feelings and ideas are valid, and I wasn't the one to bring it up. I'm still extremely confused why your response was "back in my day I fought for the rights of women and gays" - I truly do not understand what that has to do with me saying "I cannot check my identities and life experience at the door" and quite honestly being confused that you apparently can. I have no clue what any of your identities are, but the fact that you do see them as separable from your politics does say something - I have never at any point in my life been able to conceptualize them as separate entities. 9/11 happened when I was 5 years old, and since then the personal has been political for me.
As mentioned, juoean's the only person here I actually know or interact with at all, and that's mostly because we both play RBY. We never coordinated a single thing in here, actually, because believe it or not this place doesn't live rent free in my head - the closest thing to coordination was me asking her about the DMs because I was curious how it actually went down. I've talked to lilyhollow about three times total, with only one of those conversations even happening after this thread was made, and everyone else in this thread just about never. I would prefer to not think about this thread at all so long as it continues existing under these specific rules and norms, and I would have continued avoiding this thread like the plague if not for the blatant fascist apologia that was happening and the continued removal of people who combatted such apologia.
Frankly, I don't think you can say I have a victim complex if you say such conspiratorial things.
Did you read the rest of what she said? I get that she can be hard to parse and I have 2.5 years of learning to parse her communication since we're both active in RBY, but it's really clear that she agreed that that specific instance maybe was not the time and place but continued to ask clarifying questions on why something that is explicitly political is not allowed in the politics space. The stance I've gleaned from your last post is that Smogon stuff either isn't really politics or isn't the kind of politics you want in this thread, but I'm continuing to not understand which of those it actually is, why that is, or how you think people are meant to separate the personal from the political and the macrocosmic from the microcosmic. She basically wrote multiple pages delineating her thinking and trying to understand how you draw your lines with such murky terms as "political," ended on a note of "I don't get your overall thinking but I can understand if this one instance was out of place," got no response, and got quietly kicked out of the thread when she brought something up that she very much thought was the correct time and place and very well articulated. From what I'm aware of, lilyhollow also got booted with no warning from what was, as I recall, basically a retroactive rule change, similarly with no warning nor even being informed that she was banned. This was not the case for boo, who I remember got put on ICBB after like the 15th time he attacked someone, who got warned multiple times publicly, and who I'd bet any amount of money got multiple DM conversations before getting banned (and if he did, good, you should be able to communicate why you are banning someone).
Anyway, returning to juoean, characterizing her as "expressing no interest" in using the thread other than talking about moderation or "white knighting" me (lol) then saying here that she "seemed agreeable" are directly contradictory statements, so which is it? Did she express to you that she has zero interest in participating, or did you just quickly scan over what she said, fail to parse it, assume she said "oops I fucked up I will never talk about Smogon in the politics thread again," then ban her when she talked about it again? Speaking of juoean not participating in the thread except to talk about moderation, which is the claim you made in response to me, what are these posts linked below? She's literally one of the best contributors to this thread by a mile, even if you just isolate it down to grand-scale real-world politics!
lmao i did not intend to start a discussion of int'l polls about us favorability, did not even know these existed. even polls taken within the us are highly questionable as has been discussed repeatedly in this thread and thats in a "rich country" with comparatively very high rates of internet and phone access, cant even imagine what methodology is being used here, but i rly dont have the interest to investigate the details of these poll(s) to be able to get into this.
[my comment was j from the pov of sporadic, not-representative and also somewhat out of date indirect knowledge from...
Biden pulled out solely because he was too old. That’s it. Attributing it to anything else is wishcasting at best.
You can keep your personal opinions on a president in whatever regard you want. But 10 years from now, the “Genocide Joe” moniker will be actively remembered as defining Biden by maybe 2% of Americans. This is a conflict on the other side of the world, that US troops are not involved in.
Are you trying to realistically forecast how Biden will be remembered by the population at large, or how you personally think he should be remembered? Those are two very different...
41,000 Palestinians dead, that we know of, 2.3 million displaced, over 75,000 tons of American bombs dropped on an almost completely unarmed population, more than was used in the H bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.
No, he’s going down in history as Genocide Joe, who only pulled out of the race when it became apparent he was going to lose.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but some presidents are indeed worse than others when it comes to foreign policy.
i want to add that while meaningless moralizing about hamas is not worth engaging with, defending in general the right of the oppressed to fight for liberation by any means necessary is worth something imo, not because palestinian resistance needs validation from white euro-amerika which it certainly does not; but because we face similar propoganda in local struggles when it comes to eg the massive state violence against 'blm' protesters within the so-called us (and especially in retaliation for the burning of the third precinct in minneapolis), and because of what we need to learn from...
No, I would rather see demilitarization in the area rather than escalation. Here's my solution: cut all military aid to Israel and sanction them heavily, provide humanitarian aid to Gaza, urge the removal of Netanyahu and his cabinet from power, and potentially station troops in Gaza to repel any further Israeli attacks.
these (minus the last which is j wildly fantastical, the us imperialist army is never going to engage in military interventions against one of its key allies that is carrying out amerikkka's own imperial interests) are really the only thing that 'random' people...
most politicians behavior doesnt have anything to do with their 'hearts and minds'. prior to this year none of "the squad" other than ilhan omar did a single thing to oppose the billions in annual military aid to the zionist entity.
rn politicians across the democratic party are facing more scrutiny over their support for palestinian genocide and that includes "the squad". the 30+ no votes on $26 billion aid to the zionist entity is a lot more than the either 0 or 1 vote on every prior military aid, but other aspects like the adoption of the IHRA definition, or propaganda statements eg on...
Problem is the Democratic Party is the only (barely) functional party in the United States. Thus, the ideological spectrum is broad. There are plenty of right-wing conservative Democrats on one side, progressive Democrats on the other side, and everything else in between. Not all the Democrats attended or embraced Netanyahu (there are a lot that fucking hate him) so it is not accurate to paint the entire party as such. There is also the dynamic of Arabic, Muslim, and/or Palestinian Americans often supporting the same party as Jewish Americans. Really just because in 2024 the...
i think this statistical extrapolation stuff is pretty silly but gusanos are absolutely not comparable to migration to arizona. cubans coming to the so called US during the revolution, sometimes literally escorted by the us military, was primarily wealthier cubans who were afraid of the economic changes of the revolution and what might happen to their $$$. obviously, people who supported the bay of pigs and detested the revolution were coming with particular political orientations that are much more likely to go Republican (even if both parties were strongly anti-castro but policies like...
Apparently there were reports of criminal activity and violence within the protests, at least according to both the US Park Police and US Capitol Police. I'm not sure about the level of truthfulness with these reports, considering protestors claiming the protests were "no threat to police", and I believe that the Democratic response to these protests compared to the BLM protests shows a clear double standard, but if the protests were truly violent then they should be condemned.
I initially balked at this, and an (admittedly brief) investigation leads me to conclude that you've worded this exceedingly poorly. Kropotkin's writings don't seem to dispute the idea that natural selection is the driving force behind evolution; rather, he posits that natural selection favors those organisms that cooperate with each other to endure nature, rather than those organisms that compete with each other for resources. He still rebuts Darwinism in the sense that he disputes the idea of ruthless competition as the driving force behind natural selection, but his ideas seem...
the post about "north korea does not cause as much harm as us imperialism" has nothing to do with western-humanist conceptions of "good and evil" that boo's response immediately assumes/adopts. rather, the point is that north korea materially does not have the power on a global scale to be able to even come close to the level of harm that US imperialism enacts.
similarly when i previously posted about US imperialism being responsible for tens of millions of murders in every decade since 1940 and it thus being responsible for the quantitatively greatest level of violence of any single...
I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is inthiselection. However, I will reconsider my party affiliation after November if they push out Biden. Why the hell am I participating in the party primaries if donors can just override my vote?
i find this post / group of posts very curious, yes obviously the donors often take priority over the voters that is how bourgeois electoral politics operates. ofc nothing is 100% of the time but in the main politicians make promises during campaigns and then break them after they get elected. (as you actually brought up...
oh either 8/10 or 9/10 then. again from a statistical point of view, u have to factor that the predictiveness can only be evaluated starting in 2010 when it got media attention, as the only reason it received media attention was its accuracy for the prior 6 elections. if you generate a thousand political models, and u only evaluate them on a binary...
RaikouLover
A fair point, but there has to be a better way to control the growth the FDA, since Congress has pretty much said, “do what you deem necessary.” Voters don’t have much control over the FDA, although if they did I guess it would become politically charged. The FDA needs more accountability with its spending though. I’m not an expert so I don’t really know the best solution.
There are products / companies that exist due to the fact they’re a healthy alternative to whatever is the big company like Hello Fresh and Whole Foods. They’re often more...
~ theres nothing democratic about the party conventions and the pre-selection of candidates or in this case one single candidate bc there was no one else in the primary other than that dean phillips guy for 2 minutes (who has no substantive political differences from biden)
politicians know that they depend on being in the Party's good graces for their own reelections in the future. of course sometimes the party fucks them over anyway eg if it doesnt like their politics sending and aggressively campaigning for a challenger to unseat their own incumbent such as the westchester county seat...
No, it would not be unofficial. The Constitution does not have to explicitly give the executive branch such power. The President now has absolute immunity from criminal prosecution. If the President has Citizen A or journalist B murdered, there is no legal recourse. They are cloaked in the veil of immunity by simply declaring such act "official."
The Supreme Court punted on deciding official vs. unofficial until after the election, because who wins will ultimately decide if specifics will need to be made.
but since other ppl reacted too if this really requires further explanation then i guess i should respond
the post i wrote was already long af, i was not and am not going to spend paragraphs on a detailed analysis of the history of student loan policies over the past four years. one thing worth mentioning that has not been in either post above is biden's decision to declare the end to the pandemic, which ofc primarily was done in order to allow landlords to raise rents and carry out evictions but also had the consequence of resuming student loan collection.
mr hands says she didnt even...
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-politics-thread.3743029/page-16#post-10168496 - a prior time that you took personal offense to her criticism while she was very patient with you in explaining it's not a personal attack and how your actions can cause harm (literally all of her critiques were and still are useful, accurate, and helpful if you want to improve your moderation and this thread, but none of them have been implemented/taken into consideration)
~ maybe i missed smthg but i didnt see raikoulover trying to shame anyone for not voting or planning not to vote or suggest that voter shaming was something anyone should be doing. ofc voter shaming is a phenomenon that happens, but not every person who believes in voting for shitty dems is responsible for or supports that. "just as" none of us are responsible for violence committed by PSL bc we said genocide joe.
~ if you really want to take a "mathematical logic" approach, the 'its simple logic to always vote for the slightly less bad person' argument would only be applicable in a...
It's not a question of incapability, it's a matter of desire. There's no shortage of people who pretend to be outraged by the actions of fascists but either pass the buck or sabotage the fight for their own satisfaction. Activists and community leaders are disregarded in favour of video game streamers, podcasters, and glorified Abercrombie & Fitch floor staff. The right-wing murdered millions of people during COVID and literally no one was willing to call it a genocide unless they could adopt their preferred framing. Hell, we couldn't even call out the literal plot by conservative...
This is like, maybe a third of her non-deleted posts, btw, it's not like I'm just posting everything she's ever said here. It honestly seems like you just have such a chip on your shoulder about criticism that you've retroactively ascribed her like, 100 other posts in this thread as being critical of you when the reality is like 5 have been critical of moderation and exactly zero have been personal attacks on you, just like how you got really really incensed by my post that started this conversation topic and started personally attacking me and repeatedly insisting I have a personal issue with you and awyp when I don't even know who you are and haven't talked about awyp once except to respond to you randomly saying I have an issue with them.
But when the issue is with how this thread is being moderated, this dynamic heavily disadvantages regular users. As the despots of this thread, there's nothing stopping you two from simply ignoring or dismissing any complaints brought to you privately. If the complainant decides to escalate to a higher mod in response, those people are likely to take your side without thoroughly considering the issue. Discussing grievances in here at least makes it reasonably likely that those grievances will be seen before they are deleted, which can motivate a greater push for change. Case in point, we're having this conversation right now because you banned juoean from the thread for using it to express issues with moderation that, all things considered, I thought were pretty measured and even-handed.
That segues nicely into my next point: People are going to be more reluctant to bring issues to you in a private manner when the standards for ban-worthy conduct are so opaque and seemingly inconsistent. When some people are allowed to skate on thin ice for dozens of inflammatory posts while others are launched into the sun for comparatively minor violations of decorum (or even simply for the crime of complaining too much), users are going to lose faith in your ability to privately hash out moderation disagreements in a civil manner because the way that the thread is moderated seems to depend so much on your whims and who you find personally irritating. You might think of yourself as a reasonable person who is more than capable of receiving criticism through the appropriate channels, but users aren't going to take you up on that if your actions as moderator create a different impression.
Fair points to both. I agree with your responses and all I can say is we'll look into restructuring the thread.
I don't have the time today to reply in full but overall I do agree with Sab's point about where the disconnect is occurring. I can give a better response but it only ultimately boils down to that Cong is the off topic forum, and talking about the systems of Smogon is squarely in the camp of on-topic, because while overall it deals with systems it also emphatically deals with people directly, if that makes sense. Unless we're simply talking about doing so in the abstract, which I don't see as possible but it's also not the way we were interpreting that desire because honestly, when posts are peppered with "I guess we can't talk about the mods or we get banned" kind of lines that makes posts feel overall sardonic and not worth engaging (to me).
Lillyhollow was banned for propagandizing, I don't see them coming back. We'll reconsider juoean's ban because I agree that they tended to make good or at least interesting posts.
Glad we hashed that out. I know this may come off disingenuous or "sure sure we'll think about it" but it's the best I can give right now, if the thread doesn't just get closed
Can we not discuss the upcoming consequential US election?
Trump is raging against Taylor Swift.
The Florida Republican Party is freaking out as polls tighten.
Judge Merchan delayed sentencing until after the election (indicating likely prison time)
What I think you are actually saying is "what are your abortion opinions" and buddy, I am not stepping on that landmine. No matter what I say, someone will try to kill me for it. One side is calling the other misogynists, the other is calling the other baby killers, and you think people wont fight each other over it? Yeah, hard pass.
Can we not discuss the upcoming consequential US election?
Trump is raging against Taylor Swift.
The Florida Republican Party is freaking out as polls tighten.
Judge Merchan delayed sentencing until after the election (indicating likely prison time)
I enjoy your posts and appreciate discussing conservative opinions. Otherwise this thread is just a left-wing echo chamber.
What economic policies do you favor? Do you have any suggestions for how the Republican Party can be either rescued or remade?
Republicans will not lose Florida in any state election any time soon unless the demographics change wildly.
On another note, I was bummed to find out that the only democratic policy that’s been announced that I liked ($25,000) to new homebuyers is only if your parents and their grandparents did not have homes… oh well.
On the other hand, Trump saying no taxes on overtime is a huge thumbs up from me.
Oh hey someone tried to shoot Trump again. Edit: Okay it seems weirdly hard to see if there were just shots/a gun nearby? Dude is in custody whatever the case.
I'd post a link but look online anywhere and it's marginally more amusing like this
Florida is one of the most non-white states in the country and has the second highest population of college students. Which demographics need to change?
Florida has been a battleground state in modern times. Obama won twice and Clinton narrowly lost. The state chair, Nikki Fried, won as a Democrat statewide in 2018. Rick Scott, who is running for Senate re-election only won by 10,000 votes in 2018. You’re talking like Florida is Alabama. Far from it…
Florida is one of the most non-white states in the country and has the second highest population of college students. Which demographics need to change?
Florida has been a battleground state in modern times. Obama won twice and Clinton narrowly lost. The state chair, Nikki Fried, won as a Democrat statewide in 2018. Rick Scott, who is running for Senate re-election only won by 10,000 votes in 2018. You’re talking like Florida is Alabama. Far from it…
I think you are inaccurately grouping hispanics in this sense. The hispanic population in Florida is significantly more Republican than in any other state. They have actually gotten more republican in recent years than they used to be. The college student demographic is fair but as you yourself previously stated young people just don't vote at the same rates as we'd like them to vote. I wouldn't say that Florida is no longer a swing state, but it will almost assuredly be red and I don't see any reason that's changing for this election cycle - maybe sometime in the future.
If you want more blue and swing states, you need to focus on the gerrymandering redlining issue instead of voter campaigns, really. Right now you're climbing an incredible tall mountain to get enough voters to have a shot of a swing state, and that's because of gerrymandering. Funny then how dems kinda don't give a shit about it. It's not like there's that much "bluelining" they benefit from for it to stay the status quo in principle
If you want more blue and swing states, you need to focus on the gentrification redlining issue instead of voter campaigns, really. Right now you're climbing an incredible tall mountain to get enough voters to have a shot of a swing state, and that's because of gentrification. Funny then how dems kinda don't give a shit about it. It's not like there's that much "bluelining" they benefit from for it to stay the status quo in principle
I was confused for a moment. To that end, at least depending on state it would seem Dems VERY much do care about it. I pretty frequently see Dems genuinely fighting as the underdog in terms of dealing with states like Georgia which are going all in on election interference or states like NY where the redistricting probably cost us the House in 2022 (that said, I don't know how representative the Dem NY map was before, but it is far, far more competitive for Republicans now solely due to redistricting and Dems are pissed.
I genuinely think most people just don't know what gerrymandering is so it never extends beyond progressives shouting about it but those progressives are already basically pointed to as communists by the media and right wing. Personally, I think more people need to see the Onix District in Texas from 2013 to 2023 and they'd just get it, intuitively.
I think you are inaccurately grouping hispanics in this sense. The hispanic population in Florida is significantly more Republican than in any other state. They have actually gotten more republican in recent years than they used to be. The college student demographic is fair but as you yourself previously stated young people just don't vote at the same rates as we'd like them to vote. I wouldn't say that Florida is no longer a swing state, but it will almost assuredly be red and I don't see any reason that's changing for this election cycle - maybe sometime in the future.
Hispanics in general in the U.S. trend a lot further to the right than I think a lot of democrats want to believe. A lot of my extended family is very conservative and very vocally against "illegal" immigration (AKA asylum seeking). I know for a fact that some of them came over illegally themselves and lived for several years as undocumented workers, but they were the "good ones" just trying to make an honest living in the land of opportunity and the people coming over now are apparently all criminals sent by the cartels or something.
I think you are inaccurately grouping hispanics in this sense. The hispanic population in Florida is significantly more Republican than in any other state. They have actually gotten more republican in recent years than they used to be. The college student demographic is fair but as you yourself previously stated young people just don't vote at the same rates as we'd like them to vote. I wouldn't say that Florida is no longer a swing state, but it will almost assuredly be red and I don't see any reason that's changing for this election cycle - maybe sometime in the future.
Florida Latinos still vote blue overall, albeit at a smaller margin than Latinos in other states. This fact about Florida Latinos being Republican is both false and overstated.
If you want more blue and swing states, you need to focus on the gerrymandering redlining issue instead of voter campaigns, really. Right now you're climbing an incredible tall mountain to get enough voters to have a shot of a swing state, and that's because of gerrymandering. Funny then how dems kinda don't give a shit about it. It's not like there's that much "bluelining" they benefit from for it to stay the status quo in principle
Gerrymandering has nothing to do with statewide races and presidential elections. Georgia is completely dominated by Republicans at the state level , yet has two Democratic Senators and is about to vote blue again for the second consecutive POTUS election.
Dems do care about gerrymandering, so not sure why you are spreading misinformation. Every state that has achieved a Dem trifecta has either moved district drawing to independent commission, or has enacted their own Democratic gerrymanders. There’s a debate in states like New York and Illinois on if it is prudent to “unilaterally disarm” because it is ultimately these Democratic states that decide who wins the US House of Representatives.
Hispanics in general in the U.S. trend a lot further to the right than I think a lot of democrats want to believe. A lot of my extended family is very conservative and very vocally against "illegal" immigration (AKA asylum seeking). I know for a fact that some of them came over illegally themselves and lived for several years as undocumented workers, but they were the "good ones" just trying to make an honest living in the land of opportunity and the people coming over now are apparently all criminals sent by the cartels or something.
Latinos nationwide vote roughly 65% Dem, which is 2/3 Latino voters. That’s a huge margin and ultimately carries states like Nevada and Arizona. If anything, the Latino blue tilt is a bit understated. A lot of these bullshit polls this cycle have Trump winning Latinos nationwide, which is just ridiculous.
Black voters are also generally socially conservative that doesn’t mean they are voting Republican any time soon.
I mean dems as in the politicians, less so the voters. Those are a 50/50 if they specifically care about gerrymandering or more so they want a complete blue wave regardless. I think its a topic people push too little anyway, considering how much it'd help break many states that are red only in campaigns.
I dunno, I feel like dems want the voters, especially black voters, but they don't want the black empowerement and the break of status quo for each state. There are other poc in these gerrymandered counties but I focus on black folk because they've been the main reason and targets of these policies.
Also hispanic folks in the us are soooo conservative its embarassing. In florida specific 80% of them are either descendents of gusanos or who decided gusano politics are good and smart lmao. Or they're immigrants that decided to fall for the pick yourself by the bootstrap bullshit. Sad!
Florida Latinos still vote blue overall, albeit at a smaller margin than Latinos in other states. This fact about Florida Latinos being Republican is both false and overstated.
Gerrymandering has nothing to do with statewide races and presidential elections. Georgia is completely dominated by Republicans at the state level , yet has two Democratic Senators and is about to vote blue again for the second consecutive POTUS election.
Dems do care about gerrymandering, so not sure why you are spreading misinformation. Every state that has achieved a Dem trifecta has either moved district drawing to independent commission, or has enacted their own Democratic gerrymanders. There’s a debate in states like New York and Illinois on if it is prudent to “unilaterally disarm” because it is ultimately these Democratic states that decide who wins the US House of Representatives.
Latinos nationwide vote roughly 65% Dem, which is 2/3 Latino voters. That’s a huge margin and ultimately carries states like Nevada and Arizona. If anything, the Latino blue tilt is a bit understated. A lot of these bullshit polls this cycle have Trump winning Latinos nationwide, which is just ridiculous.
Black voters are also generally socially conservative that doesn’t mean they are voting Republican any time soon.
I never said that. I said they’re more republican than they are in other states, which is true. I didn’t say they were more republican than democrat in Florida. Just that, the fact that Florida has a high Latino population is not as huge a boon to democrats as you make it out to seem - most Hispanics I talk to in South Florida lean Republican. If Dems are going to win Florida some day in the future, it’s not going to be Latinos carrying their vote there.
I never said that. I said they’re more republican than they are in other states, which is true. I didn’t say they were more republican than democrat in Florida. Just that, the fact that Florida has a high Latino population is not as huge a boon to democrats as you make it out to seem - most Hispanics I talk to in South Florida lean Republican. If Dems are going to win Florida some day in the future, it’s not going to be Latinos carrying their vote there.
It will be NPA voters and the 3-5% of Republicans that will be voting for Harris. People seem to forget that about 20% of Republican primary voters were for already-dropped-out Haley. A meaningful fraction of them are not voting for Trump. Trump campaign is going to get a rude awakening in November.
Very few bother with linking their quotes/sources and half the time its from some completly unserious website/blog(Special mentions here for the sources decolonizepalestine.com and electronicintifada.net) Or in the case someone makes a well sourced post they get flooded with reponses that dont adress their point at all.
Do you bother to read the actual sources linked, or do you just dismiss them for being "biased" and think that your favored news sources lack bias? Articles on decolonizepalestine are incredibly well-sourced and it's clown behavior to dismiss them just because they openly declare a position.
Do you bother to read the actual sources linked, or do you just dismiss them for being "biased" and think that your favored news sources lack bias? Articles on decolonizepalestine are incredibly well-sourced and it's clown behavior to dismiss them just because they openly declare a position.
If it is well sourced you can skip the middle-man and just use the sourced reputable websites, websites/blogs who do one-sided reporting are not a good way to get information about a subject.
I use the sources I use because they construct a good argument with good sources that you could read if you were interested in engaging with the ideas presented. What is "one-sided reporting" in your opinion and how does this differ from the presumable "two-sided reporting" you are advocating for, and what makes said reporting better?
I use the sources I use because they construct a good argument with good sources that you could read if you were interested in engaging with the ideas presented. What is "one-sided reporting" in your opinion and how does this differ from the presumable "two-sided reporting" you are advocating for, and what makes said reporting better?
Deathly serious. I'm curious about your definitions and what makes one source biased but another not biased, as well as what makes reporting both sides inherently superior, which I assume is the position you're taking.
Electronic Intifada is generally a pretty good and thorough source for getting a Palestinian perspective on things from my experience, they often just relay what bigger media outlets report. Sometimes you want something besides AP/Reuters
Florida is one of the most non-white states in the country and has the second highest population of college students. Which demographics need to change?
Florida has been a battleground state in modern times. Obama won twice and Clinton narrowly lost. The state chair, Nikki Fried, won as a Democrat statewide in 2018. Rick Scott, who is running for Senate re-election only won by 10,000 votes in 2018. You’re talking like Florida is Alabama. Far from it…
The Latinos in Florida, many of which came from Cuba and the DR, will never vote Blue, nor will those from Haiti.
The number of woke college students fails in comparison. Many of which are not changing their citizenship to be able to vote in Florida.
Florida is not Alabama, but it is far from a swing state. Rick Scott is also probably the worst senate member currently sitting and still won… just look at what DeSantis did in the governor election.
Honestly the amout of academic rigour here is nonexisting(exept for the very rare effortpost for which i am grateful for). Very few bother with linking their quotes/sources and half the time its from some completly unserious website/blog(Special mentions here for the sources decolonizepalestine.com and electronicintifada.net) Or in the case someone makes a well sourced post they get flooded with reponses that dont adress their point at all.
That’s not been my experience at all. This forum’s been much better. Maybe from my point of view as an academic I am always grateful when someone makes any kind of effort to cite or reference, it doesn't happen much IRL.
The forums that do this serious dicussion thing very well require usually extensive moderation and/or strict posting/citiation guidelines. And while this would be very cool to see, even the current level of moderation is already a bit much for some users i surmise from a glance at the last pages of this thread. And while i understand the frustrations that most affected users are from a one side of the political spectrum, there are already some straight up insane takes in this thread and i am pretty sure that chaos doesnt want "Domestic terrorist radicalized on smogon.com" as a news headline in the near future.
This is an absolutely wild take with nothing to back it up. I absolutely refute that anyone is even close to that level.
I think that statement is worthy of moderation, tbh. Equating people who might view the Palestinians’ cause differently as potential terrorists is frankly appalling, problematic - and potentially, given who I suspect you’re aiming that at, racist.
NO ONE SAW THAT
