Serious The Politics Thread

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To get things back on rails, the zionist entity committed another mass indiscriminate bombing, this time in Lebanon by sabotaging thousands of pagers, killing innocent children as well as injuring thousands of people. Truly don’t understand how anyone can continue to both sides this or act like violently resisting this genocidal state is anything except completely morally correct

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Internat...s-owners-lebanon-hezbollah/story?id=113754706
 
Divine Retribution said:
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“British”

I lol’d. So accurate and yet being on my own in a ranking just looks so funny. Thanks for this!
 
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Sabelette said:
To get things back on rails, the zionist entity committed another mass indiscriminate bombing, this time in Lebanon by sabotaging thousands of pagers, killing innocent children as well as injuring thousands of people. Truly don’t understand how anyone can continue to both sides this or act like violently resisting this genocidal state is anything except completely morally correct

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Internat...s-owners-lebanon-hezbollah/story?id=113754706
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Just catching up after being out all day.

Nearly 2800 people injured by way of exploding pagers. Like - I have no words. An eight year old Lebanese child is amongst the dead.

Every single day you think Israel cannot possibly do anything more awful, more ridiculous, more horrifying - and yet…
 
Bughouse said:
Ann Selzer is basically always spot on about Iowa, and if Iowa is indeed only R+4, this election is over. Blue wall would be intact, wouldn't even matter what happens in the Sun Belt.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...kamala-harris-replaces-joe-biden/75180245007/
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This tracks with Bouzy’s map which has both Iowa and Ohio as “Toss up.”

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Btw, the tier lists in this thread are hysterical!

On another side note, in these “polls,” it is amazing that Americans consistently think the country is “headed in the wrong direction.” I can’t remember the last time I’ve read that poll question return favorable results. Why are we always dooming so hard?
 
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Wanted to post the only 100% factual tier list for politics threads users.

To also make this post not a total waste, the terror attack by Israel onto Lebanon is extremely worrying not only because it was a very widespread terror attack dealing great harm to innocent Lebanese People but also because the West will allow them to get away with it. When we as a country and our western allies allow our ally which we fund, provide diplomatic support, provide protection from enemies, commit a terrorist attack of this scale, we are ensuring more of these to occur. When we give Israel money, weapons after they pull this shit, they are encouraged to not stop these type of attacks. When its very likely America knew of this attack beforehand and still let it occur, how likely is it that Israel will ever stop these kinds of attacks. What does our political rivals think when they see this supposed liberal democracy acting as if it has moral superiority allow this and not condemn it sustainably. After this point, what validity does international law have anymore if we can't stop Israel from committing a genocide. How do we expect Hezbollah and other terror groups in the middle east to become less ingrained in their respective societies when they have to defend themselves against Israeli terror attacks. How are elite democrats so braindead as to not understand that Israel is trying to start a regional war to help Trump chances of victory either. Regarding any moralistic argument because I know these ghouls who run our country don't have any, the lack of understanding that supporting this shit is a threat to themselves is lost on them. When I see this veneer of moral superiority democrats show. I also understand why people can't vote for them. I wonder if they even realize it or if they are just so far up their own asses that they are unable to see the hypocrisy between their outrage about things like abortion when Palestinians are unable to have safe abortions due to them, school shootings when they support the mass murder of children if they are Arab I guess. Worry about Trump lying when they continue to spread myths about the Israeli army and Palestinians including the October 7th mass systematic rape hoax.
 
RaikouLover said:
This tracks with Bouzy’s map which has both Iowa and Ohio as “Toss up.”

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Backtracking a bit here, but Bouzy's Blue Florida prediction reminded me of this pretty interesting factoid that feels relevant to the previous Florida-trending discussion and the doomerism point you brought up.

Florida was close in 2020. Florida was a lot closer than most people realize. The popular vote in Florida came down to under 400,000 people, which is a big number, but absolutely not an insurmountable one, and here's why:

The voter turnout in Florida was only around 70%.

That's high for the US, yes, especially a swing state, but it leaves a lot of room for improve. An estimated ~1.7 million non-voters who would have voted for Joe Biden stayed home in Florida on election day.

If about a quarter of those nonvoters showed up, Florida would be narrowly blue and probably recounted. If a third of those voters showed up, Florida would be blue in 2020 without a shadow of a doubt. If one of every 3 Democratic voters brought a friend who otherwise wouldn't have voted, Florida, a state very often called a solid red state, would be safely blue.

Now, Florida has trended further right in the past 4 years, that's undeniable. What is arguable, though, is if it's a gap that can be bridged, and I absolutely think it is possible to swing Florida if people actually vote there!

I don't have exact numbers to back this up, I'll likely come back and edit them in if I can find a reliable enough poll, but I very, very strongly feel that states like North Carolina, Texas, and maybe even Florida and Ohio are in play so long as people stop subscribing to the doomerist ideology that it's impossible to flip a state that's trending red.

Doomerism loses votes. Not voting, surprisingly, loses votes. Continue to criticize Harris, continue to despise her easy-on-genocide policies and don't let up on that for a second, but the fact is that if you bring a friend to vote for her, we're going to have a far, far better future than if we let Trump win crucial "red" states.

The two-party system is dumb and needs forced reform by the people, but doomerism is even dumber. Vote.
 
I don't think Texas goes blue this cycle but Blexas feels like an inevitability by like 32 if things continue as they have since like Bush 2.

It is kinda crazy how close Iowa and Florida are now when they were complete write off's a few months ago. and yes go vote or i will haha react your posts
 
Medeia said:
I mean thats the most basic take/declaration of a anarchist and is usually coupled with complete dismantling of capitalist economy and replacing it with a collectivist economy. The workers are exploited by capitalism and their capital/labor is essential to keep the whole machinery going that encompasses all of moderns societies. The workers are supposed to have a interest to end this exploitation and end all classes altogether.

Now the main difference compared to majority of marxists is that the latter want to replace the current state with a "temporary" workers state that would wither away into a stateless and classless society while Anarchists are more radical in the demand to dismantle any kind of state, even more so since history examples of "Marxist-Leninist" states such as USSR, Mao China or Castro brothers Cuba. Besides that, Anarchists are also against any kinds of domination & oppression (and what is the state in the first place if not a body that be it as a monarchy, fascist dictatorship or democracy enforces domination and be it through democratic elections?), be it men ruling over women, European-Americans over African-Americans, able-bodied over disabled people, cis Heterosexuals over LGBTIQ+ (regardless of what they use as "justification" to oppress them) and so on.


This website is even if you're not inclined to become a devout Anarchist a good place to at least understand Anarchism as a ideology better while schools etc. are absolutely failing of doing so. I basically copied this standard 101 explanation from there and Sablette can add more things/details and her own views if she so wants:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/special/index
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Divine Retribution said:
Not the person you're replying to, but I also believe in abolition of the state as a concept. This isn't even an uncommon idea on the left; both communist and anarchist schools of thought seek to establish a classless, stateless society. Have you ever actually talked to leftists? I don't mean this in a pejorative way, but I feel like if you had ever tried to have a good-faith conversation with an actual leftist then abolition of the state is a topic that probably would have eventually come up. Not all leftists believe in it of course; there's kind of a spectrum, from hardline anarchists who believe in the immediate dissolution of centralized power as soon as possible, to Marxist-Leninists who generally see the state as a vehicle that should be seized to steer society in the direction of an ideal communist state and ideally make itself obsolete eventually, to many different stripes of socialist and social democrat who desire to establish socialism within the framework of existing states.

Anarchist and communist schools of thought have decades of history and mountains of literature, theory, and analysis to sift through if you really want to learn about them. I get that leftists telling people to read theory and educate themselves is kind of a tired meme at this point and nobody actually does it, but if you really want detailed explanations of these theories, why people believe them, how society would be structured under them, etc., there's really no substitute. I would personally recommend the works of Peter Kropotkin, especially Mutual Aid and the Conquest of Bread, although if you're really unfamiliar with leftist philosophies in general, Marx's Capital is kind of the best introduction, and the criticisms made therein form the foundation of most leftist critiques against capitalism even to this day. Asking for an expansion on the statement "I want to abolish all states" is approaching such a broad topic that answering it is about as easy as fitting an ocean into a bucket, but I can give you a condensed and oversimplified version of my perspective.

Personally, I would describe myself as an anarcho-syndicalist. I believe social hierarchies are fundamentally oppressive and anti-human and the only way for a truly just and equitable society to exist is to find a way to excise them from society as much as is possible. In simple terms, this means the abolition of all forms of centralized power in favor of a society run by mutual cooperation at a much more granular level. I believe the most peaceful and plausible way to accomplish this is a gradual abolition of centralized state power and reallocation of social responsibilities currently held by the state to a network of directly democratically-run unions. I believe collective bargaining is the only tool the working class has to effectuate societal change on a structural level, and you only need to look at the efforts corporate power goes to to suppress unionization to see this. The owning class doesn't fear violent revolution; they know who has all the guns, the bombs, the planes, and the nukes, and they know who pays for them. At least in most western countries, an attempted violent revolution would be nothing more than an easy excuse for a brutal crackdown on leftists. They fear a united working class, because at the end of the day, nobody working means they don't make any money. Despite having warped society in such a way to mitigate this as much as possible, the fundamental fact is the owning class needs laborers more than the laborers need the owning class.

If you're engaging in good faith, you no doubt have a lot of questions about that. How would an anarchist society even function in terms of manufacturing and distributing goods? Would an anarchist society have rules or laws, and how would they be enforced? Why haven't there been any successful anarchist societies yet? Doesn't the competition that exists under capitalism result in technical innovation and better, cheaper products? I asked a lot of these questions myself when I first began delving into anarchist schools of thought. I'm not even going to pretend like I can answer every single question in as much detail as you'd like; at the end of the day I'm a dude posting this on a Pokemon website, not some kind of anarchist philosopher/social scientist. That said, you're free to ask any specific questions you want and I'll do my best to answer them or find sources and literature that discusses them.

I'm also not under the delusion that I'll ever live to see some kind of utopian anarchist society either. I just have a goal I think we should move society towards and I advocate for taking the steps that bring us closer to that goal. It's going to be a long journey.
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Thanks for the explanation. I actually thought Sablette was referring to the abolition of countries, not the abolition of governments, but both of your posts were an interesting read anyway.

Teh said:
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Out of curiosity, for what reasons have you pegged me as a liberal? The only 2 posts I've made recently in this thread can basically be summed up as "what Hamas did on October 7th was wrong, and what Israel has been doing in Gaza since then is also wrong" and "if Hamas committed war crimes on October 7th when they had x amount of resources, then by logic they would also commit war crimes (but on a greater scale) if they had 2x (or any other multiple) amount of resources". Does calling out war crimes really count as a political take?
 
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https://english.alarabiya.net/News/...-israeli-arms-not-recognize-palestinian-state

Finland, what is wrong with you?

The only Scandinavian country not to recognise Palestine. The only European openly, actively trying to buy more weapons from Israel despite everyone else seeing massive protests against Israel’s conduct.

I get it, Russia is on your doorstep. You think you need a defense system.

(but surely a ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine and a bit of diplomacy to resolve tensions everywhere would be better than military posturing, again?)

Meanwhile we see Israel has bombed another school, killed dozens of civilians including children, claims it is a “hamas command and control centre”.

https://aje.io/mcioby?update=3186715

We keep hearing this time and again and I am yet to see any documented evidence of such existence of these “command and control centres”.

This is going down as the most documented genocide in history and still we see no efforts to reign in the Israelis, only try to appease them and stop everyone else from retaliating against their aggressions.
 
Grey Waves said:
"if Hamas committed war crimes on October 7th when they had x amount of resources, then by logic they would also commit war crimes (but on a greater scale) if they had 2x (or any other multiple) amount of resources".
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Please stop saying this nonsense. I addressed this at length for you before and you need to take stock and do some self reflection on the history of this conflict.

EDIT:

Aware I had posted already - but there’s been a second round of pager explosions in Lebanon today: https://aje.io/mcioby?update=3187054

I condemn the terrorism that is being unleashed on Lebanon.

If it turns out - as seems likely - to be Israel, then I think we now need an international intervention. This is unacceptable. It was already in my view unacceptable as far back as last November, but every day this year has seen more and more red lines crossed by Israel.

International humanitarian law and international laws are there to prevent this, not allow impunity of one state to carry out offences over everyone it wants to.

This is appalling.
 
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Grey Waves said:
Thanks for the explanation. I actually thought Sablette was referring to the abolition of countries, not the abolition of governments, but both of your posts were an interesting read anyway.



Out of curiosity, for what reasons have you pegged me as a liberal? The only 2 posts I've made recently in this thread can basically be summed up as "what Hamas did on October 7th was wrong, and what Israel has been doing in Gaza since then is also wrong" and "if Hamas committed war crimes on October 7th when they had x amount of resources, then by logic they would also commit war crimes (but on a greater scale) if they had 2x (or any other multiple) amount of resources". Does calling out war crimes really count as a political take?
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as sabelette and others have touched on, it is absurd for someone living thousands of miles away to be dictating the terms of the resistance of ~2 million people who have been held in a concentration camp / open air prison for their whole lives. (u also have posted false statements about widespread sexual assaults, as sabelette responded to u the first time which it seems u chose to entirely ignore, there is 0 evidence of such, regardless of the fact that the new york times hired a former-idf fascist to publish a lengthy "report" propogandizing this narrative that has no basis in reality as one example among the many ways that amerikan media have done everything in their power to spread around fantastical lies about 'hamas'. https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/ . while u and cancel cult claim that the reason for posting these comments "about hamas" is to combat misinformation when actually u are the one who is spreading misinformation).
obviously no one here is defending sexual violence, and if u want we can say we "condemn" any sexual violence that was carried out (obv the nytimes etc reports are complete inventions, but there probably were at least a few incidents of sexual violence on october 7. i say that not because "hamas is evil" or bc of anything about hamas at all, but because in the patriarchal etc world we live in, sexual assaults are / have been committed in almost every operation in armed conflict everywhere. and yes this is 'unacceptable', but the solution to it is the end of patriarchal imperial capitalism, not scapegoating specific operations that u dont like and ignoring the fact that sexual violence is endemic to all military operations everywhere (i mean obv gaza does not have an actual military so idk exactly what term to use, 'militaristic operation'? whatever).


what euroamerikans thousands of miles away "think" about what individuals and organizations in gaza who participated in the october 7 prisonbreak, is ultimately meaningless. we are not on the ground to evaluate tactics, or to evaluate alliances coalitions etc, or to engage in a criticism process of any "excesses" of the october 7 operation, or to determine that x or y segment of palestinian resistance is 'too problematic' for it to be "legitimate" for other palestinian individuals and groups to choose to work with them. it represents an extreme level of orientalism and chauvinism that over and over again people in this thread insist that actually we are #experts on all the material conditions of the concentration camp / open air prison that is gaza and of the palestinian liberation struggle, and it is our place to make declarations about what is Right and Wrong according to the allegedly universal values of euroamerikan humanism, an ideology that has been always allied with colonialism and imperialism.

the way in which u take this even further with "if hamas had 2x more resources then theyd commit 2x more violence" reveals even further how absurd the orientation of euroamerikan humanism is here. first of all, the question rly doesnt even make sense bc resources do not drop out of the sky, the material resources hamas does and doesnt have 'represent' various aspects of the conditions in gaza, if hamas were to acquire substantially more resources over x period of time there would be a cause or set of causes that enabled this to happen, relating to a change in the situation on the ground.
second, it obviously takes an "idealist" orientation, where the palestinian genocide and resistance efforts are understood not as a material history driven by various political and economic interests etc, but a bunch of "Good" or "Evil" actors who, by some sheer unexplainable coincidence, all happen to be located in palestine for whatever reason (and that these "Evil" actors would behave in the same way regardless of the material conditions or if they were somewhere else.) inevitably, and as we have seen over hundreds of years of the operations of euroamerikan humanism, the subsequent conclusion is that this "unexplainable" #Evil can only be attributed to the "Uncivilized" nature of the colonized, in this case of muslims and/or arabs, in opposition to the "Civilized" nature of white euroamerika. ofc this is all nonsense, the palestinian genocide did not begin randomly out of nowhere, the israeli state exists because it is a client state of us imperialism that carries out us interests in the region ~ altho it is not only this. israel additionally serves the ideological role of "solving the white world’s moral legitimacy crisis, which resulted from the Nazi genocide, outsourcing republican racism, and finally to be the weaponized wing of Western imperialism in the Arab world" (houria bouteldja, whites jews and us). nazism is reduced to an antisemitism that is severed from the nazi's overall white nationalist politics, which were the product of centuries of colonialism and normalization of genocides around the world; and then 'antisemitism' is projected onto colonized populations and used as a trojan horse to justify the continuation of imperialism that ofc was/is the actual source of nazism in the first place (but acknowledging this would interfere with us imperialist ambitions).
finally, "if hamas had x more resources then y" j overall reflects the deeply unserious orientation of euroamerikan humanism toward political violence. the palestinian genocide is not some abstract question of moral philosophy where our task is to roleplay as Anubis weighing souls if they are lighter than a feather or whatever, or to invent hypotheticals and speculate about what would happen if xyz which is unknowable (even if the hypothetical were 'well-defined' which as noted above this one is not).

meanwhile, the zionist state distributed pagers with bombs in them across the lebanese population and has exploded thousands of them. but lets talk nonsense about hypotheticals what if its israel 10 hamas 6 in the fourth quarter and hamas gets a level 2 shield upgrade (theres no specific material cause, it just descends from the heavens), what is hamas going to do on its next turn and should we #Condemn it.
 
juoean said:
while u and cancel cult claim that the reason for posting these comments "about hamas" is to combat misinformation when actually u are the one who is spreading misinformation).
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Combat percieved misinformation. I'm not saying people saying Hamas is a terrorist organisation are right, I'm just saying that they are saying that because they believe it to be true, not because they support Israel.
 
Cancel cult said:
Combat percieved misinformation. I'm not saying people saying Hamas is a terrorist organisation are right, I'm just saying that they are saying that because they believe it to be true, not because they support Israel.
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Do you intend to, at some point, say something of substance in this thread, or do you just like to see yourself type

Anyway “both sides” bullshit is tacitly taking the side of the oppressor
 
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