Metagame Convergence [(New Bans post #361)]

Clas said:
on the topic of the most godforsaken sets being found, here you go to give you your daily dose of BH Nightmares™
:ss/blissey:
Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure / Stakeout (/ Frisk)
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Soft-Boiled
- Imprison
- Transform
:gumshoos: Stakeout
:stantler: Frisk, Imprison
:dudunsparce: Boomburst
:Ditto: Transform

AAA hell instead?
:ss/zoroark:
Zoroark @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stakeout
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Night Daze
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
:mabosstiff: Stakeout

funny normal-type move anyone?
:ss/zangoose:
Zangoose @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack / Close Combat
- Tidy Up
:maushold: Technician, Population Bomb, Tidy Up
:blissey: Earthquake

this one is probably fine but Siamato will definitely love it
:ss/arcanine:
Arcanine @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- U-turn
:torkoal: Drought, Eruption, Earth Power
:cinderace: U-Turn

Electric Terrain is actually viable now?!
:sv/bellibolt:

Bellibolt @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Giga Drain / Grass Knot
- Slack Off
- Spikes
:pincurchin: Electric Surge, Spikes
:eelektross: Giga Drain, Grass Knot

edit: serious here, can we ban sleep here (or at least fully restrict)? loads of mons now get some very stupid tools to capitalize on the stupid mechanic that is sleep and spore is already restricted
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Zangoose gets hard walled by Gholdengo though, maybe change quick attack to knock off? Or some other dark type move
 
Some cool sets I've thought/met I'd like to share:

:Roaring Moon: @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Hustle (:zweilous:)
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Outrage
- Iron Head

Hits like a truck as long it doesn't miss.

:Scizor: @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin / Rock Blast:forretress:
- Pin Missile :forretress:
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
It now has a decent Bug STAB; this set is hard walled by any bulky Fire/Steel types though.

:Hippowdon: (F) @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Stamina :mudsdale:
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Whirlwind / Body Press
- Slack Off
Really tanky. Perhaps it should run some SpD since it has Stamina.

:Scream Tail: @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce :hatterene:
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nuzzle :hatterene:
- Encore
- Wish
- Teleport :gardevoir:
If you have a WishPass fetish, try this.

:Ogerpon: (F) @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge :rillaboom:
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Triple Axel / U-Turn :tsareena:
- Superpower / High Horsepower :rillaboom:
- Swords Dance / Grassy Glide
It's the only Ogerpon form that can use a different item while using different moves/abilities (Grass/Fire, Grass/Water & Grass/Rock being rare).
Grassy Terrain boosts Ivy Cudgel power and absorbs LO recoil. Triple Axel alllows to hit Flying/Dragon types that resist your Grass STAB. High Horsepower is an interesting coverage with Triple Axel - EQ being nerfed due to the terrain.
 
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Hello convergence metagame, I'm here to regurgitate things that have already been said but from perspective.

For starters, Mbounce is a bit stupid. It forces you to guess if your opp is it or not and it applys to just about every psychic type. Currently if you’re gonna use a pure psychic you choose either Cress or Azelf with both benefitting from it by either blocking hazards or, for azelf, things that slow down its offensive. In all fairness azelf is worse with it but cress and most likely uxie/deo-d would be just as bad as cress if it were banned instead of mbounce. The main reason for it being so horrible is that it’s obviously not the only option they have and could instead be Regen or Mgaurd which just as much merit to be used, forcing you to either run moldy or ceaseless just to attempt to get hazards, and even those users are pretty flawed.

Secondly, something i admittedly have less experience with but, Boomburst is silly. There are currenttly 2 main users with a lot more being available. The strongest of the bunch in raw damage is def PoryZ, in which it can 2hko max invest Assvest Suicune with specs without modest, meaning its only rly stopped by garg and the rare regirock which it can then run trick to break through then more easily. Pory2 isnt as stupid powerful but with how bulky it is it might as well be just as strong due to it being able to stay around for so long and throw more attacks out and basically countering mons cause of it ohkoing more offensive mons. Finally, Water and Grass types have it with waters getting Liquid Voice and both getting Protean making it even more available for mons with differnt stat lines and some more diverse moves for them compared to the porys, though so far I've only seen Gimlaf use it but hes a great player so it must be good, right? (Yes)

Finally, stall in general. This meta is rly bulky and always has with some silly combos like pheal shaymin/lando, fur coat umbreon, Garg, scream tail, etc. This is less of a “can we ban this thing” as it is just pointing how almost impossible it can be to break through these mons at times, though I wouldn’t say it’s very imposing just hard to beat if you don’t have some very specific mons at times.

Anyways i made a tr team and so far its been pretty good, only loseing to a stall team I fought and my own mistakes

https://pokepast.es/b3b94a55d2c91e68
Mvps would def be cress and snorlax for being extremly bulky and, for snorlax, rly strong
 
Hiusi guy said:
Hello convergence metagame, I'm here to regurgitate things that have already been said but from perspective.

For starters, Mbounce is a bit stupid. It forces you to guess if your opp is it or not and it applys to just about every psychic type. Currently if you’re gonna use a pure psychic you choose either Cress or Azelf with both benefitting from it by either blocking hazards or, for azelf, things that slow down its offensive. In all fairness azelf is worse with it but cress and most likely uxie/deo-d would be just as bad as cress if it were banned instead of mbounce. The main reason for it being so horrible is that it’s obviously not the only option they have and could instead be Regen or Mgaurd which just as much merit to be used, forcing you to either run moldy or ceaseless just to attempt to get hazards, and even those users are pretty flawed.

Secondly, something i admittedly have less experience with but, Boomburst is silly. There are currenttly 2 main users with a lot more being available. The strongest of the bunch in raw damage is def PoryZ, in which it can 2hko max invest Assvest Suicune with specs without modest, meaning its only rly stopped by garg and the rare regirock which it can then run trick to break through then more easily. Pory2 isnt as stupid powerful but with how bulky it is it might as well be just as strong due to it being able to stay around for so long and throw more attacks out and basically countering mons cause of it ohkoing more offensive mons. Finally, Water and Grass types have it with waters getting Liquid Voice and both getting Protean making it even more available for mons with differnt stat lines and some more diverse moves for them compared to the porys, though so far I've only seen Gimlaf use it but hes a great player so it must be good, right? (Yes)

Finally, stall in general. This meta is rly bulky and always has with some silly combos like pheal shaymin/lando, fur coat umbreon, Garg, scream tail, etc. This is less of a “can we ban this thing” as it is just pointing how almost impossible it can be to break through these mons at times, though I wouldn’t say it’s very imposing just hard to beat if you don’t have some very specific mons at times.

Anyways i made a tr team and so far its been pretty good, only loseing to a stall team I fought and my own mistakes

https://pokepast.es/b3b94a55d2c91e68
Mvps would def be cress and snorlax for being extremly bulky and, for snorlax, rly strong
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personally been running a Rain team, Keldeo and Band Barra are very good stall breakers, Keld having About only Pex as an answer and Barra having only Fur coat Umbreon and Physdef Suicune being able to live on switchin, and even then they need to recover immediately.


Physdef Unaware Roar Cosmoem is a good tool against terrain if ur still struggling while Unburden is still free
 
Kin+ak (✧∇✧) said:
personally been running a Rain team, Keldeo and Band Barra are very good stall breakers, Keld having About only Pex as an answer and Barra having only Fur coat Umbreon and Physdef Suicune being able to live on switchin, and even then they need to recover immediately.


Physdef Unaware Roar Cosmoem is a good tool against terrain if ur still struggling while Unburden is still free
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doesn't cosmoem get goobed by knock off even harder than the other psychics do? losing your bulk seems like a pretty bad risk for things like that and dusclops. if i'm running a fat psychic i much prefer cress
 
An ability being balanced if you're intentionally using a weaker option instead of a stronger option is not a defense of it. You can't claim Shadow Tag is totally fine to free in OU just because its fine on Wynaut in the same manner that you can't claim Magic Bounce is totally fine because its fine on Cosmeom. The issue I have with Magic Bounce is the lack of clarity associated with it. Every single psychic type can, and should consider running Magic Bounce, and you have to assume that they all are until proven otherwise.

I'd consider the sheer number of possible Stealth Rock users as well as the overall strength of Ceaseless Greninja to be a balancing factor for Magic Bounce, but the ability can be very oppressive in rematches, or if you reveal your SR user early. Beyond that there's so many potent abilities for Psychic types that its not remotely a safe assumption that if you see a Cress its definitely Bounce. Cress is equally capable of running a lot of potent abilities such as Unaware, Magic Guard, or even Opportunist, and assuming its one of them and getting your rocks bounced can be a meaningful tempo loss. This is not remotely confined to Cress as Deo-D is almost as bulky, about as strong, and faster.
 
quziel said:
An ability being balanced if you're intentionally using a weaker option instead of a stronger option is not a defense of it. You can't claim Shadow Tag is totally fine to free in OU just because its fine on Wynaut in the same manner that you can't claim Magic Bounce is totally fine because its fine on Cosmeom. The issue I have with Magic Bounce is the lack of clarity associated with it. Every single psychic type can, and should consider running Magic Bounce, and you have to assume that they all are until proven otherwise.

I'd consider the sheer number of possible Stealth Rock users as well as the overall strength of Ceaseless Greninja to be a balancing factor for Magic Bounce, but the ability can be very oppressive in rematches, or if you reveal your SR user early. Beyond that there's so many potent abilities for Psychic types that its not remotely a safe assumption that if you see a Cress its definitely Bounce. Cress is equally capable of running a lot of potent abilities such as Unaware, Magic Guard, or even Opportunist, and assuming its one of them and getting your rocks bounced can be a meaningful tempo loss. This is not remotely confined to Cress as Deo-D is almost as bulky, about as strong, and faster.
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i think the biggest balancing factor for magic bounce is the fact that it's limited to pure psychic, which is a horrifically bad defensive typing that holds even its best users back, and psychic/fairy, which is infinitely better but contains exactly two fully evolved mons with about one and a half usable abilities. pure psychic is weak to knock off and u-turn, both of which are really bad moves to be weak to, plus ceaseless edge which sets spikes through magic bounce. meanwhile, psychic/fairy's effectiveness with magic bounce is a lot less because there's no guesswork involved. if you see a pure psychic at preview it has a million different things it could be, but if you see scream tail or hatterene you know exactly what ability they're carrying. as things are right now, i consider magic bounce to be manageable, but my opinion could change in the future
 
p2 and pz absolutely need to go somehow, p2 1v1s pretty much everything while pz's power is completely absurd (remember that it has access to stakeout :>). im not opposed to banning boomburst either.

drum also needs to go, primarina may find a place as a band breaker but the drum set is extremely dumb joined by also dumb stuff like water tauros and fighting type drumburden abusers. speaking of which unburdern is also dumb lol get it out.

bounce going would be very nice, cress is nowhere as passive as people make it out to be thanks to its access to lumina, teleport, and nuzzle/wisp. aggressive hazard setters can get by it more often than not but i still think randomly bouncing hazards and stuff shouldnt be legal just cause reflecting hazards cause such a loss of momentum for the setter - you wasted a turn doing nothing and cress/screamtail is probably more than ok to just tp out and maintain momentum.

dire claw is dumb as fuck lol get rid of it.

run sub on your th liquid voice cunes shits broken.

some sets

:zapdos:
Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
- Hurricane
- Roost

prankster twave! terrific anti offense tool cause you can just trade yourself to cripple a guy and sometimes you even survive the endeavor cause zaps' defensive typing is epic or yellow magic. be aware that prankster roost lets you switch into random taxels and shit but you can also lose to earthquake lol.

:azelf:
smm jr (Azelf) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Lumina Crash
- Flare Blitz / Close Combat
- Moonblast / Steel Beam / whatever coverage lol you have mew movepool

this is like mglo mmy from bh. really really annoying to deal with this long term since it knocks your vests and spam lumina crash and sometimes teams just have a terribly hard time switching in. it also has infinite coverage and so can basically target whatever you want. lumina crash is soooooo broken.

:ogerpon:
Ogerpon (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Spikes
- Ivy Cudgel
- Knock Off / Triple Axel / Earthquake

as i was saying aggressive spikers can usually get past magic bounce, this ones even better at doing so cause of poison heal and unlike lando it also obliterates rapid spin suicune. the defog mu is iffy but uhhhh knock and have your rocker beat it/just run gholdengo lol.

:cresselia:
Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce / Magic Guard / Unaware
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Body Press
- Recover

hydraulic cress, what an absolute menace. im unsure if cress in general is terribly healthy tbh but i think it can stay for now.

:gyarados:
Gyarados @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Flip Turn
- Defog
- Brave Bird / Knock Off
- Roost

this is, like, defensive gyarados from gen 4 or whatever. one of the better foggers imo just cause of stab flipturn being a thing and matching up better into lando and dumb fighters (better in that you have intimidate and dont have to risk hurricane bs)

:cinderace:
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball / Sacred Fire
- Knock Off / Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock / Court Change / Swords Dance

i loooove this mon. sun pyro ball takes care of pretty much all of cinderace's attacking needs letting it function as an excellent utility pivot. ace is honestly a great rocks setter cause you can harrass anyone trying to stop you with big damage, knock, and/or burns. or you can be a superior player and have all 3 with sacred fire (it actually works i tried it). even on top of all that they still have to watch their traditional ace checks and respect that it can potentially claim kills lategame and clean. you can probably run this on entei too though you do underspeed quite a few important mons (screamtail ogerpon azelf etc).

:roaring-moon:
Roaring Moon @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 220 Atk / 36 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Throat Chop
- Outrage

pair this with cinderace throat chop fucks p2 xd.
 
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Back from job.


Boomburst, Primarina and Unburden are hereby banned from Convergence!!!
​
G-LukeTaplerBeaf CultistZach Parrott
BoomburstBanBanBanBan
PrimarinaBanBanBanBan
UnburdenBanBanBanBan

:exploud:
The team initially considered banning Porygon-Z, as it eliminated a key threat, neutered a second one (Porygon2). But as time went on we realised just how potent Boomburst as a tool is overall on a wide variety of threats, especially with the innovation of Liquid Voice and the return of Protean users, we decided that ultimately Boomburst had to go. It's no secret why though, Boomburst allowed multiple Pokemon to shred through teams mindlessly spamming a 140 BP STAB move, enabled by a multitude of different abilities. It was just too strong a breaker.

:primarina:
Huge Power existed as a balanced ability since it was limited to native user Azumarill and the hit or miss Wigglytuff. Come DLC, Primarina came in and left all previous users in the dust with great bulk, much better attack and a solid offensive typing to push it further beyond anything else. Ultimately we decided that Primarina was too strong so we axed it.

:hawlucha:
Unburden exploded into the limelight after DLC introduced not only multiple abusers on a wide variety of typings but many new ways of viably triggering it (priority denying Psychic Terrain, Belly Drum). This enabled mons that were not balanced around suddenly doubling their speed while having access to reliable means of boosting damage to wreak havoc on the tier, and thus the swift banhammer was charged to vanquish it from our metagame.

Tagging dhelmise to implement this ASAP.
 
Thank Christ.
Now i gotta rework the suicune set but thats a different issue, quick question though, as I recall, Protean was primarily banned because of strong boomburst users, will Protean be allowed back into the meta at some point?
 
Jrdyop said:
wait inteleon was killed cuz of boomburst???? PLEASE free my man, I beg, Snipe shot would be so fire
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i'd also like to briefly float the idea of possibly unbanning manaphy (with a simultaneous ban on tail glow) now that liquid voice boomburst is no longer on the table. i'm fine either way on that one though
 
Jrdyop said:
wait inteleon was killed cuz of boomburst???? PLEASE free my man, I beg, Snipe shot would be so fire
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IIRC Inteleon had Specs Drizzle Water spout, and nasty plot, and U/flip turn, and Massive SPA and SPE. liquid voice boomburst was there after the driwwle ban I guess, but nah I'm playin Rain and I swear if Specs swift swim Water spout inteleon is made legal, we ballin
 
Kin+ak (✧∇✧) said:
IIRC Inteleon had Specs Drizzle Water spout, and nasty plot, and U/flip turn, and Massive SPA and SPE. liquid voice boomburst was there after the driwwle ban I guess, but nah I'm playin Rain and I swear if Specs swift swim Water spout inteleon is made legal, we ballin
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are you manually setting rain up in 2024 bro
 
G-Luke said:
Back from job.


Boomburst, Primarina and Unburden are hereby banned from Convergence!!!
​
G-LukeTaplerBeaf CultistZach Parrott
BoomburstBanBanBanBan
PrimarinaBanBanBanBan
UnburdenBanBanBanBan

:exploud:
The team initially considered banning Porygon-Z, as it eliminated a key threat, neutered a second one (Porygon2). But as time went on we realised just how potent Boomburst as a tool is overall on a wide variety of threats, especially with the innovation of Liquid Voice and the return of Protean users, we decided that ultimately Boomburst had to go. It's no secret why though, Boomburst allowed multiple Pokemon to shred through teams mindlessly spamming a 140 BP STAB move, enabled by a multitude of different abilities. It was just too strong a breaker.

:primarina:
Huge Power existed as a balanced ability since it was limited to native user Azumarill and the hit or miss Wigglytuff. Come DLC, Primarina came in and left all previous users in the dust with great bulk, much better attack and a solid offensive typing to push it further beyond anything else. Ultimately we decided that Primarina was too strong so we axed it.

:hawlucha:
Unburden exploded into the limelight after DLC introduced not only multiple abusers on a wide variety of typings but many new ways of viably triggering it (priority denying Psychic Terrain, Belly Drum). This enabled mons that were not balanced around suddenly doubling their speed while having access to reliable means of boosting damage to wreak havoc on the tier, and thus the swift banhammer was charged to vanquish it from our metagame.

Tagging dhelmise to implement this ASAP.
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Why not just ban huge power? Banning a mon that had other options vs banning what made it broken


quziel said:
An ability being balanced if you're intentionally using a weaker option instead of a stronger option is not a defense of it. You can't claim Shadow Tag is totally fine to free in OU just because its fine on Wynaut in the same manner that you can't claim Magic Bounce is totally fine because its fine on Cosmeom. The issue I have with Magic Bounce is the lack of clarity associated with it. Every single psychic type can, and should consider running Magic Bounce, and you have to assume that they all are until proven otherwise.

I'd consider the sheer number of possible Stealth Rock users as well as the overall strength of Ceaseless Greninja to be a balancing factor for Magic Bounce, but the ability can be very oppressive in rematches, or if you reveal your SR user early. Beyond that there's so many potent abilities for Psychic types that its not remotely a safe assumption that if you see a Cress its definitely Bounce. Cress is equally capable of running a lot of potent abilities such as Unaware, Magic Guard, or even Opportunist, and assuming its one of them and getting your rocks bounced can be a meaningful tempo loss. This is not remotely confined to Cress as Deo-D is almost as bulky, about as strong, and faster.
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all im sayin is, Cress is the one broken. Stop being blind about it. Cress is broken, a guess my set mon that can put offensive pressure via muùina crash, Fuck up ur team with Wow or Nuzzle, while being almost as bulky as cosmoem without needing a knock-offable Item to achieve it. atp the only advantage of cosmoem is threatening OHKO with Max def Body press


DaddyBuzzwole said:
are you manually setting rain up in 2024 bro
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yes I do and it's doing great. How do you prevent physdef magic bounde Cosmoem from setting rain dance? u don't! what's more reliable than Regen damprock suicune to set rain? nothing! What hits harder than Swift swim Ada band Barra wave crash under rain? NO-THING
 
Kin+ak (✧∇✧) said:
Why not just ban huge power? Banning a mon that had other options vs banning what made it broken
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because primarina is the only thing that's broken with huge power (azumarill and wigglytuff are both fine)

is there any reason p2 and pz can't just switch to tera starstorm? afaik terapagos isn't banned, and obviously you take a bit of a hit in power and probably more significantly in PP, but in theory ts should serve a similar role for them. (and only them, since liquid voicers can't replicate it, for multiple reasons.)
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
possibly unbanning manaphy (with a simultaneous ban on tail glow)
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Not at all, not that manaphy is broken but with the way tiering goes it wouldn’t be unbanned cause manaphy is the only water type with tail glow, it’s similar to how lilli-h is banned but not vdance, the reasoning for its ban. (Plus that takes away from what little mono bugs have)

Kin+ak (✧∇✧) said:
all im sayin is, Cress is the one broken. Stop being blind about it. Cress is broken, a guess my set mon that can put offensive pressure via muùina crash, Fuck up ur team with Wow or Nuzzle, while being almost as bulky as cosmoem without needing a knock-offable Item to achieve it. atp the only advantage of cosmoem is threatening OHKO with Max def Body press
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Cress is bordering on being broken and mbounce + its other boundless options push it over, but i dont think it should be a one or the other type thing and using cosmoem as an example doesn’t help much with proving as such. Like quizel said, using a weaker option doesnt nullify the fact there is a clear reason that makes all of the options more unnecessarily difficult to deal with, so using cosmoem to prove cress is broken but not mbounce doesn’t say a lot besides that you’re using a mon with a different niche use case but the same underlying problem. As well, you mention cress with offensive pressure and also mention threatings ohkos with bpress using cosmoem, which i feel is the same thing just different targets. Same with the status moves that they both get. Also also be a bit less harsh when talking please, we’re all here for the love of the meta, not to degrade each other.
 
Z-nogyroP said:
is there any reason p2 and pz can't just switch to tera starstorm? afaik terapagos isn't banned, and obviously you take a bit of a hit in power and probably more significantly in PP, but in theory ts should serve a similar role for them. (and only them, since liquid voicers can't replicate it, for multiple reasons.)
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i just ran the numbers and tera starstorm's highest damage rolls are slightly above boomburst's lowest:

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 470-554 (137.8 - 162.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tera Starstorm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 404-476 (118.4 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

so i'm a little apprehensive about the porygon line still being able to deal massive amounts of damage and i would recommend keeping a very close eye on p2 and pz in the immediate future. if they still turn out to be unreasonable i'd recommend kicking them out (and keeping boomburst banned also)
 
Hey yall, would like to do another mon spotlight and some brief thoughts now that the main issues with the meta have been fixed.

:sv/swampert:
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware :Quagsire:
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Recover :gastrodon:
- Knock Off / Ice Beam / Earthquake
- Flip Turn / Toxic :Quagsire:
- Spikes :whiscash:/ Stealth Rock

Basically Lando for people who need unaware, mon is just quagsire+ and works incredibly well, Cinderace thuds into it and it takes on many of the dangerous setup sweepers very well.

Just one meta update because someone insists this mon is broken...
:cresselia:
A top mon in the tier with many options and varying counterplay for each set? Yes. Broken? No. Its still immensely passive, thuds into darks, and struggles to deal with too much offensive pressure, but it is a very good glue for most teams, and deals with both hyper offense and stall pretty well, struggles into well constructed balance or bulky offense teams moreso. If youre struggling with it, grab a good dark like zarude or roaring moon, or a mon with clear smog / haze, either will dispatch most cresselia threats that appear to be threats, elsewise just apply offensive pressure to it, and if you are able to, use it for setup fodder.
 
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