yea that's funny because it's absolute garbage in a meta where Grass is so unbelievably goodHey yall, would like to do another mon spotlight and some brief thoughts now that the main issues with the meta have been fixed.
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Knock Off / Ice Beam / Earthquake
- Flip Turn / Toxic
- Spikes/ Stealth Rock
Basically Lando for people who need unaware, mon is just quagsire+ and works incredibly well, Cinderace thuds into it and it takes on many of the dangerous setup sweepers very well.
Just one meta update because someone insists this mon is broken...
A top mon in the tier with many options and varying counterplay for each set? Yes. Broken? No. Its still immensely passive, thuds into darks, and struggles to deal with too much offensive pressure, but it is a very good glue for most teams, and deals with both hyper offense and stall pretty well, struggles into well constructed balance or bulky offense teams moreso. If youre struggling with it, grab a good dark like zarude or roaring moon, or a mon with clear smog / haze, either will dispatch most cresselia threats that appear to be threats, elsewise just apply offensive pressure to it, and if you are able to, use it for setup fodder.
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Metagame Convergence [(New Bans post #361)]
- Thread starter G-Luke
- Start date
If that's how it works then why isn't pure power unbanned and Gallade Banned? Medicham is far from brokenBack from job.
Boomburst, Primarina and Unburden are hereby banned from Convergence!!!
G-Luke Tapler Beaf Cultist Zach Parrott Boomburst Ban Ban Ban Ban Primarina Ban Ban Ban Ban Unburden Ban Ban Ban Ban
The team initially considered banning Porygon-Z, as it eliminated a key threat, neutered a second one (Porygon2). But as time went on we realised just how potent Boomburst as a tool is overall on a wide variety of threats, especially with the innovation of Liquid Voice and the return of Protean users, we decided that ultimately Boomburst had to go. It's no secret why though, Boomburst allowed multiple Pokemon to shred through teams mindlessly spamming a 140 BP STAB move, enabled by a multitude of different abilities. It was just too strong a breaker.
Huge Power existed as a balanced ability since it was limited to native user Azumarill and the hit or miss Wigglytuff. Come DLC, Primarina came in and left all previous users in the dust with great bulk, much better attack and a solid offensive typing to push it further beyond anything else. Ultimately we decided that Primarina was too strong so we axed it.
Unburden exploded into the limelight after DLC introduced not only multiple abusers on a wide variety of typings but many new ways of viably triggering it (priority denying Psychic Terrain, Belly Drum). This enabled mons that were not balanced around suddenly doubling their speed while having access to reliable means of boosting damage to wreak havoc on the tier, and thus the swift banhammer was charged to vanquish it from our metagame.
Tagging dhelmise to implement this ASAP.
Damn it, I was thinking Sap Sipper 
to soft check these Grass/Fighting things with Poison Heal/Leech Seed/Triple Arrows...
Boomburst being gone, Tera Starstorm is coming but at least it's less stronger and doesn't hit through subs. Also I'm glad that Unburden is gone.
Anyway, what about these?
(F) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Body Press
- Recover
Isn't it the embodiment of evil? Magic Bounce + Covert Cloak on such a bulky mon is hellish. Make sure to run something that can eat Knock Off/U-Turn.
@ Leftovers / Covert Cloak
Ability: Oblivious
/ Shell Armor 
/ Sticky Hold 
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Take Heart
- Scald
- Stored Power
- Recover
I guess it's still working that way.
@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
/ Unaware 
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Sacred Fire
- Roar
- Slack Off
Primarina being gone, I think it can have some usage. 115 HP/85 Def is fine.
to soft check these Grass/Fighting things with Poison Heal/Leech Seed/Triple Arrows...Boomburst being gone, Tera Starstorm is coming but at least it's less stronger and doesn't hit through subs. Also I'm glad that Unburden is gone.
Anyway, what about these?
(F) @ Covert Cloak Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Body Press
- Recover
Isn't it the embodiment of evil? Magic Bounce + Covert Cloak on such a bulky mon is hellish. Make sure to run something that can eat Knock Off/U-Turn.
@ Leftovers / Covert CloakAbility: Oblivious
/ Shell Armor / Sticky Hold Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Take Heart
- Scald
- Stored Power
- Recover
I guess it's still working that way.
@ Heavy-Duty Boots Ability: Intimidate
/ Unaware Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Sacred Fire
- Roar
- Slack Off
Primarina being gone, I think it can have some usage. 115 HP/85 Def is fine.
If you Think about it We got 2 fighting Psychic types - Gallade and medicham. everything that may get medicham to be broken is gallade. Swords dance? Knock off? Triple axel? All of these are From gallade. And if
Medichan @ Choice Whatever
-Close Combat
-Zen Headbutt
-Ice Punch
-Bullet punch
Is banworthy in a meta with fluffy Dusclops (that shit almost got me locked for swearing) then ehh might want to discover the wonderful tool the damage calculator is.
252 Atk Choice Band Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Dusclops: 72-85 (25.3 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
And that's before eviolite because I was lazy. As of right now in a singles Meta, neither Gallade nor medicham is playable (nah because Fake out Gallade in doubles )
And if anything that's unfair. You guys let wigglytuff huge power in and medicham is getting left out for no reason At all.
Also calling wigglytuff a hit-or-miss when it runs Play rough and a 85 BP 100 Acc stab just like prim, with the option of running like drain punch or shit As a coverage instead of a STAB on its prio
I think if its on a team where you have tools to deal with the grasses (throw a corv on the team) then itll still thrive, but honestly special grasses are significantly worse than phys ones, spdef pert has a lot of merit for that.
And to answer your question about Pure Power, Either is broken but Pure Power specifically is the broken element, since there is only 2 Psychic Fightings, banning one would simply just give normal medicham, which is like dogshit, Banning Huge Power instead of either mon allows for the most options on either, as lets face it, base medicham is just not good, but Gallade isn't going to complain about the few minor additions medicham gives it.
Funny bad set that forces a switch on special attackers if a skill swap is set up, if they don't and you can get a block off and can toxic/protect stall anything without an immunity, could switch toxic out for an attack as well, might be interesting with wish support or on some weird stall, obviously it has no recovery, maybe it could be adapted into a weird special attacking sweeper with charge beam on a faster special attacking mon
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Truant
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Protect
- Block
- Toxic
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Truant
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Protect
- Block
- Toxic
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the "additions": Fake out, Trailblaze. Literally everything else is outclassed by something Gallade already has. HJK? Axe kick? sharpness boosted Sacred sword is better. Bullet punch? Shadow sneak hits Psychics, At least.
remembers me that slow start PZ in TR will never exist because Regigigas is banned
Primarina is banned.
If you truly believe that Wigglytuff is broken with Huge Power, feel free to structure your arguement as such. Id also bring along proof with multiple high level replays as well. Otherwise, stop derailing the thread with discussions that do not actually further metagame development.
Can someone please update the OP with the new bans (and any others not shown on the OP)? Had no idea why I couldn't use Boomburst until I went to this page.
weird, the ban hasn't been implemented yet, at least for me. just got swept by an unburden mon lol.
It can take a little while (read: several days) for bans to be implemented after being announced. Please be patient.
And other stuff: I'm trying to get into Convergence, and having trouble finding answers to common Special Electric-types due to their excellent coverage. Does anyone have any suggestions? (Hazards are welcome).
I know. I was replying to a comment that implied that the bans were in effect, which isn't the case. Nothing related to impatience.
Going to go over 2 (3?) of the mons I find the most "interesting" as of the latest bans:
This mon is... very interesting. It takes everything a bulky water would want and packages it in a Mon with 100/115/115 defenses. Just to list its common "Convergences":
Regenerator, Flip Turn
Take Heart
Water Spout, Rapid Spin
Drizzle
Marvel Scale, Recover, Haze
Stored Power, Acid Armor
Adaptability
On top of Scald (it naturally has that already). It's def a staple, even after the funny Liquid Voice Boomburst set got axed.
/ 
Another bulky ASF Mon that now has everything it wished it could have. Azelf... it's just Mew but with better offenses.
Again with the things they (should not) get:
(Notable Moves) Nasty Plot, Dragon Dance, Volt Switch, Close Combat, Body Press, Swords Dance
Lumina Crash, Roost
Regenerator, Magic Guard
(Gifts to Cresselia) U-turn, Knock Off, Stealth Rock
Psycho Boost, Recover, Spikes, Stealth Rock
Meteor Beam, Photon Geyser
Unaware
Magic Bounce
I honestly think these mons should be on the watchlist, basically every team should have one of these mons due to their versatility.
This mon is... very interesting. It takes everything a bulky water would want and packages it in a Mon with 100/115/115 defenses. Just to list its common "Convergences":
Regenerator, Flip Turn Take Heart Water Spout, Rapid Spin Drizzle Marvel Scale, Recover, Haze Stored Power, Acid Armor AdaptabilityOn top of Scald (it naturally has that already). It's def a staple, even after the funny Liquid Voice Boomburst set got axed.
/ Another bulky ASF Mon that now has everything it wished it could have. Azelf... it's just Mew but with better offenses.
Again with the things they (should not) get:
(Notable Moves) Nasty Plot, Dragon Dance, Volt Switch, Close Combat, Body Press, Swords Dance Lumina Crash, Roost Regenerator, Magic Guard (Gifts to Cresselia) U-turn, Knock Off, Stealth Rock Psycho Boost, Recover, Spikes, Stealth Rock Meteor Beam, Photon Geyser Unaware Magic BounceI honestly think these mons should be on the watchlist, basically every team should have one of these mons due to their versatility.
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It's worth noting that Azelf naturally has Nasty Plot, but Mew does give it Swords Dance to abuse its (Mew's) insane movepool.Going to go over 2 (3?) of the mons I find the most "interesting" as of the latest bans:
This mon is... very interesting. It takes everything a bulky water would want and packages it in a Mon with 100/115/115 defenses. Just to list its common "Convergences":
On top of Scald (it naturally has that already). It's def a staple, even after the funny Liquid Voice Boomburst set got axed.
Another bulky ASF Mon that now has everything it wished it could have. Azelf... it's just Mew but with better offenses.
Again with the things they (should not) get:
I honestly think these mons should be on the watchlist, basically every team should have one of these mons due to their versatility.
While I don't agree with the method, and the argument is badly structured, the underlying reasoning is sound. It would be coherent to either ban Gallade and Primarina, or ban Pure Power and Huge Power. Doing one but not the other is simply inconsistent. And while I understand if this doesn't factor in the final decision, keeping Sap Sipper Primarina would be far more valuable for the meta than keeping Huge Power Medicham/Wigglytuff...
Contrary is banned because of serperior giving contrary to mons like sceptile, rilla, with leaf storm, superpower, cc, and so on
Also hoopa u without it is a decent pokemon so even that tradeoff would negatively impact the meta
Wanted to share a pretty annoying set I've been using as of lately to take care of those pesky Gapdoses and other unburden friends still running around. Does phenomenally at taking care of Gapdos especially though due to it's flying type making it immune to the prio immunity psy terrain would normally give.
Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Gale Wings
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Air Slash
- Scorching Sands
- Roost
Gale Wings is here for obvious reasons. Its the whole reason this set has had success lately since it allows Moltres to outspeed most mons as long as you're at 100 hp which is pretty managable considering all the slow pivot mons in the tier. I opted for Air Slash over Hurricane since Cane is stronger but way more unreliable especially in situations where its either remove the threat from the battle/field or have a good chance at being swept (atleast for me). The rest is filler though the 252 HP instead of 252 Spe is because Moltres will usually just be using Air Slash.
Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Gale Wings
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Air Slash
- Scorching Sands
- Roost
Gale Wings is here for obvious reasons. Its the whole reason this set has had success lately since it allows Moltres to outspeed most mons as long as you're at 100 hp which is pretty managable considering all the slow pivot mons in the tier. I opted for Air Slash over Hurricane since Cane is stronger but way more unreliable especially in situations where its either remove the threat from the battle/field or have a good chance at being swept (atleast for me). The rest is filler though the 252 HP instead of 252 Spe is because Moltres will usually just be using Air Slash.
Erm Drizzle is banned(nerd)Going to go over 2 (3?) of the mons I find the most "interesting" as of the latest bans:
This mon is... very interesting. It takes everything a bulky water would want and packages it in a Mon with 100/115/115 defenses. Just to list its common "Convergences":
On top of Scald (it naturally has that already). It's def a staple, even after the funny Liquid Voice Boomburst set got axed.
Another bulky ASF Mon that now has everything it wished it could have. Azelf... it's just Mew but with better offenses.
Again with the things they (should not) get:
I honestly think these mons should be on the watchlist, basically every team should have one of these mons due to their versatility.
Interesting Set Time:
Toxapex @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Flip Turn
- Barb Barrage
It's bulky Tentacruel! Also takes a 0% from almost any special attack (Specs Keldeo Psychic did 40%, got Knocked, walled forever).
(Yeah, it's STABmons Toxapex without Mortal Spin, but Barb Barrage makes up for it basically)
Toxapex @ Assault VestAbility: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Flip Turn
- Barb Barrage
It's bulky Tentacruel! Also takes a 0% from almost any special attack (Specs Keldeo Psychic did 40%, got Knocked, walled forever).
(Yeah, it's STABmons Toxapex without Mortal Spin, but Barb Barrage makes up for it basically)
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Close enough.Interesting Set Time:
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Flip Turn
- Barb Barrage
It's bulky Tentacruel! Also takes a 0% from almost any special attack (Specs Keldeo Psychic did 40%, got Knocked, walled forever).
Welcome back stabmons toxapex
Cetitan, moreso Sheer Force it gave, gives a nice power boost for other pure Ice Pokémon, though only two or three I believe would make legitimate use of Sheer Force. And for those who says “no set-ups”, Alolan Vulpix grants Nasty Plot for Special Attackers and Beartic grants Swords Dance for Avalugg. Freeze-Dry would be sub-optimal as Regice grants Thunderbolt and Focus Blast. And with lots of pure Grass to deal with, pure Ice Pokémon may have a place this time. Speaking of Regice…
Boosted BoltBeam coverage (117 Power each after Sheer Force boost, 152.1 with Life Orb) is nothing to sleep on, with Focus Blast becoming 156 (202.8 with Life Orb) which almost no opposing Ice-type, Rock-type or Steel-type would want to switch in even with 70% accuracy into account. Fourth slot can be Recover or Rapid Spin, though Recover is preferable as Regice would want to hold Life Orb. Shadow Ball is also an option if you want to get rid of Gholdengo that badly.
A worse Regice even with higher Special Attack, though Glaceon is very thankful of Thunderbolt + Focus Blast + Nasty Plot. Either way, Glaceon would prefer Swift Swim (via Beartic) or Slush Rush (via Beartic / Cetitan) to make better use of it’s base 130 Special Attack.
Frailer than Regice, but have a more respectable 105 Speed, making Cryogonal a good alternative since the Special Attack difference is very small with 95 SpA vs 100 SpA. Can do Rapid Spin / Defog support, Sheer Force boosted Shadow Ball to pressure Gholdengo, and / or Switcheroo (via Glalie) to disrupt walls.
As Glastrier isn’t banned, and is ZU even, the latter appreciates access to Recover by Avalugg, making far better use of it’s bulk, especially once it set up Bulk Up. Conversely, Avalugg don’t have much use for Chilling Neigh due to low Speed and awful special bulk, but appreciates Swords Dance if it ever wanted to Sheer Force wallbreak. Avalugg would also prefer Snow Warning to accentuate it’s enormus physical bulk even more than before.
Boosted BoltBeam coverage (117 Power each after Sheer Force boost, 152.1 with Life Orb) is nothing to sleep on, with Focus Blast becoming 156 (202.8 with Life Orb) which almost no opposing Ice-type, Rock-type or Steel-type would want to switch in even with 70% accuracy into account. Fourth slot can be Recover or Rapid Spin, though Recover is preferable as Regice would want to hold Life Orb. Shadow Ball is also an option if you want to get rid of Gholdengo that badly.
A worse Regice even with higher Special Attack, though Glaceon is very thankful of Thunderbolt + Focus Blast + Nasty Plot. Either way, Glaceon would prefer Swift Swim (via Beartic) or Slush Rush (via Beartic / Cetitan) to make better use of it’s base 130 Special Attack.
Frailer than Regice, but have a more respectable 105 Speed, making Cryogonal a good alternative since the Special Attack difference is very small with 95 SpA vs 100 SpA. Can do Rapid Spin / Defog support, Sheer Force boosted Shadow Ball to pressure Gholdengo, and / or Switcheroo (via Glalie) to disrupt walls.
As Glastrier isn’t banned, and is ZU even, the latter appreciates access to Recover by Avalugg, making far better use of it’s bulk, especially once it set up Bulk Up. Conversely, Avalugg don’t have much use for Chilling Neigh due to low Speed and awful special bulk, but appreciates Swords Dance if it ever wanted to Sheer Force wallbreak. Avalugg would also prefer Snow Warning to accentuate it’s enormus physical bulk even more than before.
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Umbreon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat (
)
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wish
- U-turn ( , 
)
- Foul Play
- Taunt / Encore ()/ Mean Look (for trapping non-threatening mons??)
Umbreon becomes even bulkier thanks to Persian's Fur Coat, and can now pivot out so its teammates can benefit from Wish too.
Since its Defense is basically doubled, Foul Play can be used even more effective against physical set-up sweepers like Haxorus.
I do think I could improve the EVs, and I'm not too sure with that last move slot
Ability: Fur Coat (
)Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wish
- U-turn (
, )- Foul Play
- Taunt / Encore (
)/ Mean Look (for trapping non-threatening mons??)Umbreon becomes even bulkier thanks to Persian's Fur Coat, and can now pivot out so its teammates can benefit from Wish too.
Since its Defense is basically doubled, Foul Play can be used even more effective against physical set-up sweepers like Haxorus.
I do think I could improve the EVs, and I'm not too sure with that last move slot
Umbreon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat (
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wish
- U-turn (
- Foul Play
- Taunt / Encore (
Umbreon becomes even bulkier thanks to Persian's Fur Coat, and can now pivot out so its teammates can benefit from Wish too.
Since its Defense is basically doubled, Foul Play can be used even more effective against physical set-up sweepers like Haxorus.
I do think I could improve the EVs, and I'm not too sure with that last move slot
Toxic, Knock Off, Parting Shot or Roar are other options depending on the moveset, pure Dark type is really interesting.
I'd just like to draw attention to how utterly incredible Skeledirge is in the current meta, if you don't mind.
Now don't get me wrong, I understand why it's not a popular choice. It's got heavy defensive competition due to things like regirock/garganacl who is essentially the king of chip damage and forcing switches, fur coat umbreon which blanket checks nearly EVERY physical attacker in existence. Plus there's status absorbers now that poison heal is widespread, there's a few (kinda busted) water types floating by which makes it much harder to safely stay in, then there's the stored power boosting pokemon like cresselia, etc etc.
But dirge is one of the few mons that can pack unaware, which is MAJOR. Sitting on so many common boosting mons like zapdos-g, dogi, hell even boosting primarina (only after a burn, but this is really not that difficult to do with how good suicune is for instance, scald is quite common) can't do enough for dirge to not heal past it. Not to mention, it sits on those pesky grass/fighting types like chesnaught and boosts up heavily with torch song, which is never a bad thing.
I personally believe a set like this is its best:
Mariah Cadaver
@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fire
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
I feel as though most of the strong special attackers in the tier either hit fire/ghost super effectively or end up knocking it, which can really make it struggle due to how easy it is to get spikes and the like up with ceaseless edge gren for instance. going full defense allows it to really abuse unaware to its fullest.
thanks for reading, go drink some water and treat yourself cause you deserve it :)
Now don't get me wrong, I understand why it's not a popular choice. It's got heavy defensive competition due to things like regirock/garganacl who is essentially the king of chip damage and forcing switches, fur coat umbreon which blanket checks nearly EVERY physical attacker in existence. Plus there's status absorbers now that poison heal is widespread, there's a few (kinda busted) water types floating by which makes it much harder to safely stay in, then there's the stored power boosting pokemon like cresselia, etc etc.
But dirge is one of the few mons that can pack unaware, which is MAJOR. Sitting on so many common boosting mons like zapdos-g, dogi, hell even boosting primarina (only after a burn, but this is really not that difficult to do with how good suicune is for instance, scald is quite common) can't do enough for dirge to not heal past it. Not to mention, it sits on those pesky grass/fighting types like chesnaught and boosts up heavily with torch song, which is never a bad thing.
I personally believe a set like this is its best:
Mariah Cadaver
@ Heavy-Duty BootsAbility: Unaware
Tera Type: Fire
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
I feel as though most of the strong special attackers in the tier either hit fire/ghost super effectively or end up knocking it, which can really make it struggle due to how easy it is to get spikes and the like up with ceaseless edge gren for instance. going full defense allows it to really abuse unaware to its fullest.
Clear smog/Haze from
and
respectively, which lets you snuff out a stored power booster before it gets out of hand.
Calm mind from
to patch up your weaker special defense and have an extra way to boost to save torch song pp. Not sure how good this one is, but it's an interesting option nonetheless.
Infernal parade from yet again could be used instead of hex for the added burn chance, equal to that of scald. I personally prefer hex though, as there are some mons you would rather NOT have a burn on, namely fast special attackers like a specs greninja. It'd be much more valuable to land a t-wave on a threat like that, but keep in mind that you could potentially burn a poison heal ground/flying type like lando-t trying to switch in on you.
andrespectively, which lets you snuff out a stored power booster before it gets out of hand.Calm mind from
to patch up your weaker special defense and have an extra way to boost to save torch song pp. Not sure how good this one is, but it's an interesting option nonetheless.Infernal parade from yet again
could be used instead of hex for the added burn chance, equal to that of scald. I personally prefer hex though, as there are some mons you would rather NOT have a burn on, namely fast special attackers like a specs greninja. It'd be much more valuable to land a t-wave on a threat like that, but keep in mind that you could potentially burn a poison heal ground/flying type like lando-t trying to switch in on you.252+ Atk Huge Power burned Primarina Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Skeledirge: 151-178 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 148-176 (35.9 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 127-150 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Okidogi Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 152-180 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Okidogi Dire Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 46-55 (11.2 - 13.3%) -- possible 8HKO
will add more as i play, there's a lot of things i don't know about the meta yet and i want to figure out more common threats!! this is a WIP
252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 148-176 (35.9 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 127-150 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Okidogi Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 152-180 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Okidogi Dire Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 46-55 (11.2 - 13.3%) -- possible 8HKO
will add more as i play, there's a lot of things i don't know about the meta yet and i want to figure out more common threats!! this is a WIP
Can we unban either Shell Smash or Quiver Dance? All the setup mons in this meta are either Dragon Dance / Tidy Up or the Calm Mind Iron Defense sets, it's unfair for Special Attackers to lose both setup moves. Shell Smash might be broken but I don't think Quiver Dance would be that bad. The meta's kinda stale right now.