Didn’t bother since it’s UU by usage.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Weavile is OU in our hearts
Soon to be UUBL
https://pokepast.es/b8f8f194788993df
Gonna spread the word about this team early: it’s actually ridiculous. It’s a DD SubTect Tera Steel Kyurem PP stall and it’s a pretty straightforward team:
Kyurem does all the big work, Talonflame Defogs and spreads burns, Dozo and Clod support Kyurem’s defensive downfalls and Pawmot + Cress make Kyurem’s job much easier.
Not my team BTW, but it did win a notable tour recently.
Now go flood ladder with this shit or something, and remember to have fun!
Gonna spread the word about this team early: it’s actually ridiculous. It’s a DD SubTect Tera Steel Kyurem PP stall and it’s a pretty straightforward team:
Kyurem does all the big work, Talonflame Defogs and spreads burns, Dozo and Clod support Kyurem’s defensive downfalls and Pawmot + Cress make Kyurem’s job much easier.
Not my team BTW, but it did win a notable tour recently.
Now go flood ladder with this shit or something, and remember to have fun!
Last edited:
"have fun"
I mean its more viable than meow so you should have mentioned it
A lot of people already know about this set, but I really like the Ogerpon-Wellspring moveset from the Scarf Lando-T sample team :
Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- U-turn
Wellspring has got so many move options available to it, but I find this one to be really reliable to make immediate progress, or to force out certain mons and click U-turn to retain positive momentum, at the cost of being slower overall into certain threats.
All of this is made even trickier for the opponent since they don't know whether Wellspring is running SD, or other moves like Play Rough / Encore etc ; they'd ideally want to stop any set-up attempt dead in its tracks, but that also leaves their own switch-in open to Wellspring pivotting out and being threatened by another mon.
I would not be able to tell you how healthy this dynamic actually is, it does seem pretty hard to manage for a lot of Bulky Balance or Stall teams for instance. But I do appreciate how consistent this set is in the midst of the momentum wars that seem to define SV OU.
Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- U-turn
Wellspring has got so many move options available to it, but I find this one to be really reliable to make immediate progress, or to force out certain mons and click U-turn to retain positive momentum, at the cost of being slower overall into certain threats.
All of this is made even trickier for the opponent since they don't know whether Wellspring is running SD, or other moves like Play Rough / Encore etc ; they'd ideally want to stop any set-up attempt dead in its tracks, but that also leaves their own switch-in open to Wellspring pivotting out and being threatened by another mon.
I would not be able to tell you how healthy this dynamic actually is, it does seem pretty hard to manage for a lot of Bulky Balance or Stall teams for instance. But I do appreciate how consistent this set is in the midst of the momentum wars that seem to define SV OU.
having to compress moltres and corvinight into talonflame is rough
Talonflame is common on stall. It’s A- tier in the stall bible buddy. It’s not compressing moltres and Corviknight in one slot, it’s a defogger that can remove on ghold while having a fast wisp for gambit.
Ok, buddy, I don't play stall.
my god watching this made me irrationally angry
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Pokemon that are borderline and produce unfun/unhealthy play patterns should not be allowed in the tier. Pressure Stall Kyurem seems to be getting more attention, and Gliscor gets to heal for an absurd amount by spamming Protect. I think this play pattern of spam Protect is inherently broken, but when already incredible Pokemon get to gain so much from pressing a move that stalls for a turn then something needs to be done. Obviously you can't ban Protect because that would be nonsensical, but we sure can take action against these borderline abusers. I'm 100% for the Gliscor suspect, and honestly I'd survey the qualify player base at least once a month about Kyurem, and if that bum ever gets a 4<= again by the qualify player base then I'd just give it the boot.
Actually, I would like it a lot if Protect was banned. It's a blatantly unfun move to play against with basically zero drawbacks and enables all of the most asinine strategies and teams in the tier. It provides basically nothing of value to the tier and never has. It would never happen, but in my ideal world it would.
imagine how incredibly pathetic someone has to be in order to use the move protect. seriously I fucking can't
This is just such an incorrect statement Protect has plenty of merit both historically, and in current Gen. It allows for Bulky mons without innate Recovery to spend a turn gaining a little bit back with Leftovers thus increasing longevity. It's a great scouting tool for coverage moves like say Heatran using Protect on Meowscarada and learning that the Meow has Low Kick. It also has the drawback of being a potential negative momentum producing move. You can always just set up hazards, or use a setup move on a predicted Protect. Not to mention just using the free turn generated by Protect to switch out and gain better positioning.
My problem isn't the move itself. It's when Pokemon are able to abuse it too the degree Kyurem and Gliscor are.
Slight correction: it adds nothing worthwhile to the tier, you either attack and the fatmon gets free recovery or you don't attack and the fatmon gets free recovery, and they can always just switch if if the matchup becomes unfavorable. It's an extremely brainless move that's a veritable win-win for the Protect user, there's a reason why Gliscor clicks protect if even the slightest chance of an attack is predicted on the first turn, people only notice the most egregious examples such as this; nobody has EVER said that the tier has been made more fun to play as a whole (not just for them) because of the existence of Protect
If Kyurem in the replay above had clicked protect every 2nd turn they would have comfortably lost. That implies some level of skill to me.
They were really good about knowing when to risk a 50/50 substitute, and when chained subs were safe with no need to risk protect.
everything about that match makes me wish to not be alive, maybe there's something I'm missing but the turns with the double stealth rock fail made me want to tear my eyes out, I assume that was supposed to be PP stalling
Very good point, and I hope that my original post didn't come off as me saying that these strategies are skilless. I never advocated for a Protect ban. I just think that the move itself is what pushing these two Pokemon in particular either at the threshold or beyond what is acceptable within the tier., and if they are at that point and producing these unfun/unhealthy play patterns they should probably go.
When every non gimmick pokemon in the game has access to a move and its only seriously used on maybe 10 viable mons (and people complain about it on 2 of them only) the move isn't the/a problem.
This isn't even getting into how abusable protect can be with shit like encore/set up in general and in current meta if you give the wrong thing set up at the wrong time you just lose or how wish/protect is sacrificing half your moves just to heal.
If you find protect to be broken then I strongly suggest you stop running 6 choice mons. I get people don't like "stall" (protect is not stall) but suggesting we need to ban protect so we can just do unga bunga the meta is nowhere near as fun as you think it would be
This isn't even getting into how abusable protect can be with shit like encore/set up in general and in current meta if you give the wrong thing set up at the wrong time you just lose or how wish/protect is sacrificing half your moves just to heal.
If you find protect to be broken then I strongly suggest you stop running 6 choice mons. I get people don't like "stall" (protect is not stall) but suggesting we need to ban protect so we can just do unga bunga the meta is nowhere near as fun as you think it would be
"Adds nothing to the tier" you see, it's extremely easy to tell when somebody lets their anti-stall biased mind delude themselves into believing that their opinions are reality. Protect is extremely important for stall, regardless of your opinions on it.
Man I just reread my original post, and now I understand why I got the HaHa’s. I deserve those for writing that shit. I’ll leave it unedited cause it’s kinda funny lol
Edit: I guess I should try to clarify my original intent. Protect is not inherently broken, obviously. It is not fun to play against though, and I think that’s what I originally was trying to say. Unfun play patterns with broken mons is no good. I’ll stop posting now.
Edit: I guess I should try to clarify my original intent. Protect is not inherently broken, obviously. It is not fun to play against though, and I think that’s what I originally was trying to say. Unfun play patterns with broken mons is no good. I’ll stop posting now.
Last edited:
Sorry for the snarky tone bro I was sleep deprived. Just wanted to help out.