Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Been messing with Evs on the Defensive Tusk set and I'm really liking the 200HP/220Def/88Spd EV spread. Doesn't lose too much bulk but the 88 EVs in speed allows it to hit 232 speed. This allows it to beat 252 ev neutral base 65 speed Mons which is kinda nice. More importantly though, it allows it to hit 351 speed after a rapid spin which means it outspeeds all Positive base 110 speed mons which is huge.

I feel at the very least, Defensive Tusk should be running 40 EVs in speed instead of the standard 36 EVs to allow it to beat not only positive base 50 speed mons but, also positive base 100 mons after a Rapid Spin
 
ShizuOsaka said:
If Bulky Offense is fat, HO is skinny, then is stall "obesity"?
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don't fatshame blissey

anyways we should really think about using sinistcha more in OU. it's by FAR the best spinblocker in the tier and it's an insanely good defensive piece that also acts as a wincon in a shocking number of games

tera poison is great but i LOVE tera bug as well, as it shuts down tusk and bolt better than any other tera (and turns them into setup fodder). Yall should try it
 
RainebowValiant said:
don't fatshame blissey

anyways we should really think about using sinistcha more in OU. it's by FAR the best spinblocker in the tier and it's an insanely good defensive piece that also acts as a wincon in a shocking number of games

tera poison is great but i LOVE tera bug as well, as it shuts down tusk and bolt better than any other tera (and turns them into setup fodder). Yall should try it
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Gholdengo seeing this post:

will-ferrell-elf.png
 
Seraphyde said:
How come we refer to bulky offense as "fat" but we don't refer to HO as "skinny"?
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Not to be that person, but fat refers to bulky balance not bulky offense. View attachment 084BC620-326E-489A-B28E-2387BEFCEA45.webp

To not just post a one-liner, how do people feel about rocks gliscor? Despite being overshadowed by sd and spikes, I think it’s an underrated option as an alternative to lando on bulkier teams that trades offensive power, intim, and rocky helmet for better longevity and access to knock and toxic. Being forced to run protect does limit its moveset options tho.
 
Karmazz said:
Not to be that person, but fat refers to bulky balance not bulky offense. View attachment 681989

To not just post a one-liner, how do people feel about rocks gliscor? Despite being overshadowed by sd and spikes, I think it’s an underrated option as an alternative to lando on bulkier teams that trades offensive power, intim, and rocky helmet for better longevity and access to knock and toxic. Being forced to run protect does limit its moveset options tho.
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Stealth Rock Gliscor is just Landorus-T with a different ability lmao

UltraSword said:
Gholdengo seeing this post:

View attachment 681992
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Gholdengo is way worse of a spinblocker than sinistcha, it just has more role compression while being a spinblocker (AKA having 12 fucking resistances)
 
RainebowValiant said:
Stealth Rock Gliscor is just Landorus-T with a different ability lmao


Gholdengo is way worse of a spinblocker than sinistcha, it just has more role compression while being a spinblocker (AKA having 12 fucking resistances)
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The way I see it while Sinistcha is better at blocking spin than ghold, it also has a lot less utility outside of it. Ghold can set up with nasty plot while threatening Gking and AV Crown while also blocking defog, which means Sinistcha needs a lot more support since if you run Sinistcha you have to run a Stealth Rock setter that can pressure Corv. Also talonflame defogs on both of these :)
RainebowValiant said:
Talonflame is unfortunately not good outside of Stall. But yes, Gholdengo is if you need utility/role compression, and Sinistcha is if you already have a solid Steel-type and a way to pressure Gking/Crown/Corv because GODDAMN Sinistcha is so oppressive against every spinner in the tier.
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The Talonflame mention was a joke.
Alisyem said:
Overheat?
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Oh shit. Overcooked, Overheat, it has to be specs. Aura Sphere Vacuum Wave Overheat Flamethrower maybe? Or it could be mixed.
 
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Conflux123 said:
The way I see it while Sinistcha is better at blocking spin than ghold, it also has a lot less utility outside of it. Ghold can set up with nasty plot while threatening Gking and AV Crown while also blocking defog, which means Sinistcha needs a lot more support since if you run Sinistcha you have to run a Stealth Rock setter that can pressure Corv. Also talonflame defogs on both of these :)
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Talonflame is unfortunately not good outside of Stall. But yes, Gholdengo is if you need utility/role compression, and Sinistcha is if you already have a solid Steel-type and a way to pressure Gking/Crown/Corv because GODDAMN Sinistcha is so oppressive against every spinner in the tier.
 
RainebowValiant said:
tera poison is great but i LOVE tera bug as well, as it shuts down tusk and bolt better than any other tera (and turns them into setup fodder). Yall should try it
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what does tera bug offer in the bolt matchup??? you still don't resist dragon and in fact now you don't resist electric either. tera bug does let you beat tusk harder, but only attack booster or tera ice can even break Sinistcha anyway (ignoring the fact that cheesing strength sap with Ghold/low attackers so it stays low is a thing). tera bug also exposes you to being knocked by knock off tusk and then getting hazarded.
 
pixelpenguin said:
what does tera bug offer in the bolt matchup??? you still don't resist dragon and in fact now you don't resist electric either. tera bug does let you beat tusk harder, but only attack booster or tera ice can even break Sinistcha anyway (ignoring the fact that cheesing strength sap with Ghold/low attackers so it stays low is a thing). tera bug also exposes you to being knocked by knock off tusk and then getting hazarded.
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Why did I say bolt i am not cooking I meant gambit (so every Tera does that yes but it's the best one into that Tusk that also beats gambit)
 
You forget how wild the teams are at around 1500’s when you’re riding high in the 1800’s. Then poof one night of experimenting and tilting you find yourself slumming through the muck. Aside from the sample teams you face there is nothing resembling the meta down there. 1700’s is the true beginning of mid ladder where teams start to normalize.

I tried Latios for a night. Didn’t really work. Back to Ogerpon-C spam
 
RainebowValiant said:
don't fatshame blissey

anyways we should really think about using sinistcha more in OU. it's by FAR the best spinblocker in the tier and it's an insanely good defensive piece that also acts as a wincon in a shocking number of games

tera poison is great but i LOVE tera bug as well, as it shuts down tusk and bolt better than any other tera (and turns them into setup fodder). Yall should try it
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Bug has always been Great Value Flying defensively which is sad since I love the type

Speaking of the King
I've been wondering why Steath Rock or Choice item variants of Kingambit don't work
 
SaveMeJebus said:
Bug has always been Great Value Flying defensively which is sad since I love the type

Speaking of the King
I've been wondering why Steath Rock or Choice item variants of Kingambit don't work
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Because most people want kingambit to deal heavy damage but change moves as well so you won't get taken advantage of by set up mons if you're locked in sucker punch. And most people want defensive pokemon to take the role of hazard making barring glimmora and hsamu in which they're a lead pokemon.
 
Faux Focalors Furina said:
Because most people want kingambit to deal heavy damage but change moves as well so you won't get taken advantage of by set up mons if you're locked in sucker punch. And most people want defensive pokemon to take the role of hazard making barring glimmora and hsamu in which they're a lead pokemon.
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I agree but what makes it so that you see Choice items on Bolt and not Gambit? I feel Bolt plays similar to Gambit on the special side.

Kinda been wanting to run SR Gambit since the Tera Dark Offensive Gambit seems to have a really hard time setting up in the current meta
 
SaveMeJebus said:
I agree but what makes it so that you see Choice items on Bolt and not Gambit? I feel Bolt plays similar to Gambit on the special side.

Kinda been wanting to run SR Gambit since the Tera Dark Offensive Gambit seems to have a really hard time setting up in the current meta
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Generally it’s because Bolt has a better defensive typing, and Bolt also gets Volt Switch and actually is powerful early game pre swords dance unlike Gambit that needs to SD.
 
SaveMeJebus said:
Kinda been wanting to run SR Gambit since the Tera Dark Offensive Gambit seems to have a really hard time setting up in the current meta
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Wait that's an actual thing? I thought it was a meme that low level players use. I've seen it, and was wowed at how unimpressive it was.

But that was low ladder, so I'm not sure if it sucks or if it was simply used incorrectly due to low level shenanigans.


EDIT: And Defiant? Just ..no. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I mean that in earnest, but it just seems like such a downgrade. Supreme Overlord is a literal win condition. The extreme power it gains while the opposing team has been with into nothing can't be overstated We have a thousand hazard setter uppers. Without that power it's a fucking Steel Dark type, literally weak to being punched in the face.

I'm not saying I've never lost to one, we've all lost to silly things once in a while. But I'm terrified and so tired of King Supreme that Defiant is a welcome break.
 
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SaveMeJebus said:
I agree but what makes it so that you see Choice items on Bolt and not Gambit? I feel Bolt plays similar to Gambit on the special side.

Kinda been wanting to run SR Gambit since the Tera Dark Offensive Gambit seems to have a really hard time setting up in the current meta
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Bolt has access to stuff like Draco Meteor and Volt Switch to help it keep momentum up in the mid-game. Gambit just doesn’t have that. Gambit is also slower and more reliant on its priority than Bolt.
If you’re struggling to setup gambit, try a defensive Tera with Fire, Fairy or Ghost instead.
I’ve actually seen SR gambit in high ladder but I’d rather run literally any other SR mon tbh
 
sims796 said:
Wait that's an actual thing? I thought it was a meme that low level players use. I've seen it, and was wowed at how unimpressive it was.

But that was low ladder, so I'm not sure if it sucks or if it was simply used incorrectly due to low level shenanigans.


EDIT: And Defiant? Just ..no. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I mean that in earnest, but it just seems like such a downgrade. Supreme Overlord is a literal win condition. The extreme power it gains while the opposing team has been with into nothing can't be overstated We have a thousand hazard setter uppers. Without that power it's a fucking Steel Dark type, literally weak to being punched in the face.

I'm not saying I've never lost to one, we've all lost to silly things once in a while. But I'm terrified and so tired of King Supreme that Defiant is a welcome break.
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I've run into Defiant sets that use sticky webs Court Change into Defiant Gambit
 
sims796 said:
EDIT: And Defiant? Just ..no. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I mean that in earnest, but it just seems like such a downgrade. Supreme Overlord is a literal win condition. The extreme power it gains while the opposing team has been with into nothing can't be overstated We have a thousand hazard setter uppers. Without that power it's a fucking Steel Dark type, literally weak to being punched in the face.

I'm not saying I've never lost to one, we've all lost to silly things once in a while. But I'm terrified and so tired of King Supreme that Defiant is a welcome break.
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Here's the thing; Defiant Kingambit is undeniably good. Having a way to punish Intimidate is very good. The problem? Defiant is a situational but very good ability. Supreme Overlord is the thing that makes Kingambit an actual overlord of OverUsed. Losing teammates, something that will happen, has a silver lining in making an already threatening pokemon even stronger. Defiant will sometimes prock. Supreme Overlord always procks. I'm half convinced Defiant Kingambits are either mistakes from the builder, or less obvious memes. That, or one guy lost to Sticky Web one too many times and wants to make it everyone else's problem
 
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