NOC Low Power Mafia -- Mafia Win

apricity said:
Hi Jalmont!

I hope you're doing well. It's great to play with you again.

Are you letting us cook as a courtesy to us? If so, I appreciate it, but I would actually much prefer your help in catching me up on the game. Specifically I couldn't understand what your train of thought was around page 71. Because you said the flander vote was pointless (which I actually really agree with -- not just because it's my slot, but because I don't think this is a good time to blast into the nulls). But then you voted for flander. And then you said you don't understand what info the flander wagon would give. And then you asked for other people to vote -- which I agree with because we need votes for informaiton and to exert the only power town have over the mafia, but voting a guy who hasn't been around for a week seems to me like barely voting at all
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trying to extend some courtesy to nuxl and "build a wagon" and see what would happen. I townread nuxl and getting him going is a good thing for the town even if i totally disagree. no harm in seeing what happens and then moving on tomorrow morning
 
bluedoom said:
The bold is what I'm deliberating on, been having a back and forth with nuxl on that the last few pages. But the thing that initially made me feel off about the wagon wasn't even like, trying to save CK or anything, just, the reasons for voting Neon didn't feel genuine when I know that at least 3 voters(jalmont,tommy, a fairy) have given him a pass for the same behaviour in previous games. Like nothing he did in this game was different from his town range in previous games(which is really just posting spreadsheets and trolling) so yeah.
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OK. But do you see what I mean when I say that you can't say that you doubt the votes on Neon when there's no scum motivation to manufacture votes on neon unless a mafia was a high counterwagon (in which case CK is scum), or if mafia knew neon's role (which you've just confirmed they could not have)?
 
JALMONT said:
trying to extend some courtesy to nuxl and "build a wagon" and see what would happen. I townread nuxl and getting him going is a good thing for the town even if i totally disagree. no harm in seeing what happens and then moving on tomorrow morning
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OK. I hope that me subbing in to the slot was a pleasant outcome for you.

Could you help sell me on nuxl's alignment? Is it from day 1?
 
apricity said:
Could you give me a list of the people you think are too low information to sort? I get the sense that everyone thinks there's a whole bunch of nulls this game but I actually think it's quite manageable -- that list right now is like lechen, chickening, i don't even know who else I'd include
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+ Alice. For people with not enough info to really solve. It isn't so much that we're too low info to sort. I think at this stage I would just want one maf flip to be able to figure out what different players have been doing. I have a lot of null reads that go one way or the other by a bit but would easily sort if I had a scum flip.

I could say pulsar (lean town), NE (lean town), DbD (true null), Tommy (true null), CK (maybe a slight maf lean), and skipper (lean town), realiti (biggest scum lean) could fit into that category of people that I think I can sort a little but there isn't a whole lot of confidence for me.
 
apricity said:
OK. But do you see what I mean when I say that you can't say that you doubt the votes on Neon when there's no scum motivation to manufacture votes on neon unless a mafia was a high counterwagon (in which case CK is scum), or if mafia knew neon's role (which you've just confirmed they could not have)?
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mm yeah fair. I think there's scum motivation to present T/T wagons in case there are random Cfds but I think even in that event there's max 1 person among the voters. I see what you mean.
 
realiti said:
TOWNCORE
Nuxl: Very difficult to fake this level of engagement and solving attempt as scum

des: Very difficult to fake this level of engagement and solving attempt as scum

TOWNLEAN
JALMONT: Hard to see why scum!JALMONT would engage so heavily D2 in a dead thread, his posts seem to come from genuine thought and curiosity

Skipper: I’ve played with both town!Skipper & mafia!Skipper, his playstyle was drastically different between alignments and I correctly read him both times. He normally dodges the thread as scum and is sporadic as town, IMO he is strongly in his town meta this game

Flandrs: Good D1 posting IMO, strong thread presence when he was active. Liked his initiative and the interaction with JALMONT (don’t see why you’d antagonize him as town). Pretty blunt and to-the-point posting, which I associate more with town than scum (who normally try to word things in non-committal manners). However, he is below JALMONT and skipper because I don’t know his meta and he doesn’t have many reads.

SCUMLEAN
Duskfall98: I liked his earlier posts where he was casually tossing out town reads, thought that he wasn't forcing an agenda which I associate with his scum play. But I don’t like his push on Neon, it comes out of nowhere during a lull in the thread. Neon is a sporadic player and it’s hard to see why Tommy would pop in and go “THIS is the one scum read I have,” especially when he knows about Neon’s history. I understand the other Neon voters who couldn't think of better options, but Tommy's push seems opportunistic. Also don’t like his D2 entrance, he says he’s tilted but just waves off the vote and disappears - feels like he’s trying to pretend to be annoyed but doesn’t actually care.

DbD: Early CK tunnel D1 was fine, but then CK continues to flood the thread and DbD doesn’t re-evaluate the slot or interact with her posts. Seems like a lazy scumread made to avoid giving actual reads - I do this a lot as scum as well

Lechen: Don’t like his D1 progression, meh entrance -> scum reading two easy targets. Ironically I can apply his scumread on skipper to Lechen himself, seems like he’s throwing shade that doesn’t hurt his rep. Backtracking on the CK vote later was pretty towny IMO, but he goes back to the CK vote D2 which I found confusing.

SCUMCORE
Not enough happening to have someone here. This is my new term for players that I end up tunneling.
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apricity what are your thoughts on this Realiti post.
 
Nuxl said:
i kinda maintain the belief that the thread isnt in this state if tommy + one of those two you mentioned is scum (it could be if realiti + jalmont is in a team, but for as someone as vocal as tommy i kinda think things become more eh controlled?)
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This is an interesting take that I don't understand at all, could you expand?

Nuxl said:
realiti im trying not to give too much credit, but the real excuse is that i dont want to be wrong in townreading him again incorrectly for the third game and wanted to actively do more there after hitting a red flip. i havent had a great excuse to move jalmont out of null all game, but i seem to differ because people find his recent posts towny + afairys more scummy even tho i think its more of the converse ftr
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OK. Have you noticed that the entire thread townreads you? How many days do you expect to live? Do you think that your read on realiti will be more or less accurate than the remainder of the thread's read on realiti after you are gone?
 
M2H said:
+ Alice. For people with not enough info to really solve. It isn't so much that we're too low info to sort. I think at this stage I would just want one maf flip to be able to figure out what different players have been doing. I have a lot of null reads that go one way or the other by a bit but would easily sort if I had a scum flip.

I could say pulsar (lean town), NE (lean town), DbD (true null), Tommy (true null), CK (maybe a slight maf lean), and skipper (lean town), realiti (biggest scum lean) could fit into that category of people that I think I can sort a little but there isn't a whole lot of confidence for me.
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gut reaction i actually quite liked alice lmao
 
apricity said:
i'll go back and read the context, I know you had pinged eli this readslist as well
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I mean just every part of it seems disingenuous to me. For Des, "Very difficult to fake this level of engagement and solving attempt as scum" is just straight up not the reason why Des gets TR here. It is more the case that Des is a newer player and and their tone and solving are in a good spot moreso than that her game is hard to fake. The description on Jalmont as well feels like a ChatGPT output. Could read the Flandrs read as either tmi or a pairing. I am also missing from their scum reads list when I was among their top scum reads at this time, as NightEmerald pointed out. I just struggle to see how this is the readslist of a player trying to solve.
 
apricity said:
This is an interesting take that I don't understand at all, could you expand?
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dont you think the thread would be in a more errr controlled? state by the more actives if 2 or more of like dusk/realiti etc are powerwolfing? like atm the top wagon is led by aura guardian and NE, then another two by skipper and des

apricity said:
OK. Have you noticed that the entire thread townreads you? How many days do you expect to live? Do you think that your read on realiti will be more or less accurate than the remainder of the thread's read on realiti after you are gone?
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yep im completely cognizant of what you're asking, i dunno for the last one
 
apricity said:
Hi Lechen!

Can you talk to me about bluedoom? I saw this post from you earlier and I thought it was interesting: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/low-power-mafia-day-1.3754379/page-49#post-10331882
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re: doom I just found it suspicious that he scumreads me for activity. While I do prefer playing town over mafia usually, in this game with my current availability I can't spend much time solving as I spend most of my free time to plan for EIPP (which he knows I'm playing in), and the rest of my free time is when I'm commuting/during the night, which I use to play Iron Emblem, a Fire Emblem hack (which he also knows I'm playing because we talk about it lol
 
M2H said:
I am also missing from their scum reads list when I was among their top scum reads at this time, as NightEmerald pointed out.
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Is there a reason that both you and NE deliberately ignored his post immediately after that where he talks about not wanting to make a level 1 read on you?

realiti

NOC Post in thread 'Low Power Mafia -- Mafia Win'

Everybody else I have as a small townlean or don't feel that strongly about. Will finish this list at a later time. The only exception is M2H, who's a capable player that I don't have much experience with, so I will think more about him instead of making a level 1 read.
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like i think it's fucking wack that it's day 3 and realiti is in the "meh, could be scum ¯\(ツ)/¯" pile and i hear ZERO alarm bells about it, but it's odd that you and AG are pointing to NE's case like some kind of god bible when in reality it's the kind of post that i'll write up about a guy i want to vote out, realize my reasons aren't that strong, and then i'll either delete the draft or just post it for towncred
 
apricity said:
I have read that post as well

The first half was about realiti's skipper trajectory, which i thought was very ordinary and shared by other people in the thread as well, including hilariously yourself

The second part is almost completely predicated on M2H being a different alignment from realiti, which I understand, but which it seems you do not believe since you scumread both M2H and realiti. So how do you believe the result of the case when you don't believe the assumption it's predicated on?
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My M2H opinion changed soon after I posted the not T/T thing. So if one of M2H / realiti is wolf and M2H isn't, that leaves realiti.
 
Lechen said:
re: doom I just found it suspicious that he scumreads me for activity. While I do prefer playing town over mafia usually, in this game with my current availability I can't spend much time solving as I spend most of my free time to plan for EIPP (which he knows I'm playing in), and the rest of my free time is when I'm commuting/during the night, which I use to play Iron Emblem, a Fire Emblem hack (which he also knows I'm playing because we talk about it lol
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OK

how do you plan on helping your alignment win the game?

is the plan to find a guy whose alignment you trust and then sheep them, or do you currently have any reads with strong convictions (doesn't sound like it from #1834), or what's going on
 
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