Resource SV PU Viability Rankings

[Oofhixd]

Here are some mons that i think could be starting to gain viability

UR -> C
With wetbull gone, and 6 fires being A- or higher, the need for fire resistances are ever increasing. In my opinion, quaxwell is a decent spinner and a nice fire resist. Quaxwell is also usable as a pivot with access to flip turn, not to mention its ability moxie which, when setup, can help this thing become unstoppable. Here are some sets i’ll provide for quaxwell
https://pokepast.es/52ec511b16587427
https://pokepast.es/165ed6b48185d554

UR -> C+
This thing is just as good as ghost bird, with it being a very double edge sword being either utterly useless or it’ll sweep your opponents entire team. The issue with this mon is consistency, sometimes being unreliable to get value, but otherwise its very unpredictable as to what tera type it’ll go. This mon is also a good check into redbull, resisting both of its stabs, and completely walling the bulk up set and redbull would not want to take a +1 air slash. Here are some sets for redbird.
https://pokepast.es/0285e6f267022e38
https://pokepast.es/50224a446297b3b5

UR -> C
Falinks is a great lead into redbull. Having the ability defiant means that it will turn the -1 from intimidate, into +1 and with scarf, it would also outspeed rebull. Falinks gets HH which, at +1, neither redbull or tox would want to take which are currently two of the best mons in the meta. At +1, cc is gonna be dealing some serious damage, especially with its quite high attack stat. Here are some sets for falinks.
https://pokepast.es/1872c3ac452c26ae
https://pokepast.es/f08ae356e7f6000c

Alr, these are my noms (for now) please let me know if you disagree with any of these and tysm for reading!
(I wont do an agree/disagree/neutral on as i did that in my last post)

 

[asa]

Aurist asked for rapid-fire UR noms, I'm giving them rapid-fire UR noms.

UR -> B/B-
Orthworm offers surprisingly good role compression, completely walling Rhydon as well as common Gastrodon and Mudsdale sets and using to set hazards on top of dealing with Florges, Venusaur, and Copperajah. Also does ok against common removers and sponges Knock Off. Also also has EQ if you're really scared of Toxtricity. As long as you're not relying on it too hard, it's pretty annoying.

UR -> B/B-
Floatzel no longer faces competition from Wetbull and is substantially faster than Bruxish and most of the tier in general. Gastrodon also rarely runs Storm Drain anymore, so the only relevant Water immunity left is Tatsugiri, which takes far more from Ice Spinner than the slug. Even max max Bold Cramorant takes too much from Choice Band Wave Crash, so your best bet at resisting it is Wo-Chien. Unlike Bruxish, Floatzel has next to no defensive utility, but its upside can be really good, and forcing offense's hand with how fast you are is nice.

UR -> C+
Magneton can be a huge Tera hog at times, but this is less of an issue against teams that don't pack Gastrodon, and Magneton is a massive threat in those matchups. Either way, the handy resists and workable physical bulk give Magneton more opportunities to attack than Fraudtricity gets sometimes, and stuff like Rhydon and Cramorant trending up is great for it.

UR -> C+/C
Without Duraludon and Flamigo around, Dipplin hard walls most physical attackers. It's hard to properly exploit too thanks to Dragon Tail, and it even has Sticky Hold for Trick and Knock Off and Growth to be less passive. Kind of a cutie pie, just giga-weak to hazards and owned by Florges.

UR -> C+/C
The big tony 2014 Pokemon is honestly pretty good, not much deals with it besides the relatively uncommon Articuno and Goodra. Seed Flare is very spammable right now, and Shaymin has the coverage to punish practically every Grass resist. It's also pretty fast and decently fat + has broken HWish, definitely worth having ranked somewhere.

UR -> C
Not great, but not so bad it isn't worth ranking. Weezing kind of does a lot of things okay, including spamming annoying status and/or Haze, making Fighting-types OHKO themselves via Rocky Helmet recoil, and sponging Knock Off sometimes. Weezing is very, very exploitable, but I can't say I hate it.

C -> UR
HO is good, but Aurora Veil is so unnecessary for it to function and so not worth making work anymore.

C -> UR
What does he even do?

Some non-UR stuff

This is arguably a top 3 Pokemon right now, I strongly disagree with ranking it down; if anything, Arcanine should be A+ (or even S). Curse remains effective and the newly popularized Choice Band sets are good at forcing progress and cleaning. Arcanine also always offers something valuable defensively to teams and has honestly never been more reliable and consistent. The prevalence of Rocky Helmet/bulky Rock-types like Rhydon is like one of two problems it runs into, really.


Not impressed enough with Toxtricity to personally rank it any higher than A. I could see A+, but any higher than that is overselling it imo.


I agree with ranking these up, all very annoying and very threatening. I think I'd rank Rhydon in A, Cramorant in B+, Uxie in B+/B, and Salazzle in A+/A.


Ranking Decidueye down to just A+ or A is fine. It's still amazing, but not nearly as consistent as it was in the previous meta.


Agree with the posts about these, they're both usable. Firebird is much better than Ghostbird rn, and Dachsbun sits there real good and does a whole lotta nothing.


Why must we pit two queens against each other like this? Both being in A+ feels right to me.

A few last noms

B+ -> A+
Swords Dance Scyther is great right now and really hard to guard against long-term. Eviolite variants gain enough extra bulk to set up easier and trade fairly well, all while becoming much tougher to revenge kill (especially when factoring in Tera). HDB variants are still good too, the security against Stealth Rock is nice. Being fast and strong is great right now either way, and Scyther is a valuable tool for and against hyper offense, which is slowly becoming better and better.

B+ -> A-
Every time I miss Bleakwind Storm, I want to unrank this Pokemon. That said, it's hard to deny that Tornadus being so fast and so strong is often a recipe for success. Pivot sets alone apply decent pressure with how colorful Tornadus's movepool is, but Choice Specs and NP sets bring the pain. Besides Rotom-H and Bellibolt, nothing is truly safe against a Tornadus with its glasses on.

B -> A-/B+
The best form of speed control right now, IDGAF. Fast Flying-types being good, more Ground-types, and less fat Grass-types are all really good for the ball, and it's good at supporting at the strong offensive guys we have. Outrunning every fast guy right now is also big, and people seem to less fond of Choice Scarfers in general, which is good for Electrode-H. Soundproof is also incredibly broken right now, preventing Meloetta and Toxtricity from mindlessly clicking and letting you turn them into momentum.

B -> B+
Fat, strong, and is basically a Rainbow-type with how many Teras it can viably run. Glastrier never does nothing in a game and gives teams wiggle room in just about every matchup, and without even needing to click SD half the time.

B -> B+ / B- -> B
Physically bulky Ground-types that pack recovery but do slightly different stuff than Gastrodon. Palossand in particular is great for walling a lot of Toxtricity sets, but both are decent and pretty annoying in a lot of games.

B- -> B
Defog sets aren't half bad and check a lot of boxes, and QD sets can actually win now without Bronzong, AV Glowbro, and Aqua Jet Wetbull around. The crazy special bulk is nice atm, and not much besides Coalossal and Steels actively want to switch into it.

A+ -> A/A-
Still good, just really awkward lately on most teams. Being kind of slow and not super bulky is annoying, and I don't find myself running to use Venusaur right now. It also feels easier to play around offensively, so idk. If A- is too drastic, I'm fine with A.

A- -> B+
Hoopa is still good, but I've struggled to want to use it over Meloetta, who's only been getting better and better as of late. Slow and physically frail is not a good combo of traits right now, and needing to risk Focus Blast against Dark-types is really annoying. However, built-in ESpeed immunity and still punishing fat mons like little else are both good, so I don't want to rank Hoopa too low.

A- -> B
Pretty disappointing mon overall, only gets more and more exploitable as time passes. Offensive Snowslash sets are pretty good honestly, but defensive sets are more common and don't really do much besides switch into Moonblast, slowly lose to hazards chip, and let Redbull switch in. Opposing setters are also almost always keeping hazards up versus Snowslash.

 

[Aurist]

Just FYI, the next slate of VR council voting will open on Saturday, nominations made after that point will be considered in the next slate after that. :goochu:

 

[Theycallmephil]

I have returned to my nomination station.
In less cryptic words I have things to say!!

First off will be the rises, of which there are many

A -> A+
This is the most hilarious breaker ever, with an incredible speed tier leading to you only being reliably outsped by Salazzle,ambipom and the rare Electrode-hisui and maybe jolteon..?
What rlly holds this pokemon over the edge to me is its incredible coverage and item diversity, when I say this pokemon gets to choose its checks, I mean it
Able to run Special sets like Specs, nasty plot, special life orb sets, this arsenal alone is incredible, add in my favorite set(mixed life orb) and physical sets like band and Swords Dance, possibly a physical LO too. I think this pokemon more than meets my criteria for A+ in this metagame.

C -> A
After very genuinely laughing at this pokemon while watching early SCL games, I have changed my mind
This pokemon is a nightmare of an offensive threat, it can kinda hog tera in my opinion, it's very worth it. With about a million setup opportunities on key threats like toxtricity, the set I typically see and rate so highly is Rock-polish/Swords dance/and the typical edgequake dual stabs. Idk this is a newer adaptation but I think A is fair.

A -> A+ idk if this mon will ever stay so idt I'll write much but yeah

B+ -> A/A+
Tbh idk why this mon ever fell this low, but he's back and scarier than ever
With alot of faster threats gone, and the sudden arrival of a certain sets viability on HO, this pokemon is more threatening than ever
After a single Swords Dance it becomes probably the scariest physical threat in the tier, and that certain set is Eviolite, making it much harder to revenge kill or just kill in general.

C -> B/B+
Founding member of the mespirit hate club, uxie has seen a surge in recognition and viability, mainly for a trending nasty plot set which utilizes the mons great bulk and access to draining kiss to set up cleanly and tear thru unprepared teams, love this little fella, glad their back.

B+ -> A-
I think shifts favor this mon alot, and bulk up Grimm is crazy good, not much to say tho, feel less confident in this nom

C -> B-
Wetbull is gone, scrafty is struggling?
More fighting types get a chance to shine
Passimian brings a big threat and a checkmate to the ever annoying intimidate users who plague this tier
Move this veteran of SV PU up.

C -> B
Good HO lead, better than lycan, gives froslass alot of trouble, super fun and easy to get creative with
So glad sleep got banned so we get this interesting fellow.

Okay now for drops

C+ -> UR
This mon sucks, so bad
It's speed tier seems enticing, as does it's newfound access to calm mind
But none of these things save it from an absurd reliance on tera, and not even being that good with it, it's a tera hog that produces spoiled bacon, I consider this mon unviable at the moment.

B+ -> B-
Mediocre lead, feel like it's unfavored rn despite the rise in HO, that's all.

 

[MZ]

I strongly agree with a large amount of other proposals and don't want to rehash much that's already come out (yes Rhydon should be A/A+, I don't need to repeat that), but I do want to add my thoughts on S rank, plus a couple of other unmentioned things from last week's SCL build

B+ -> A/A+

Between this post and Discord, I've seen multiple people saying Scyther deserves to go way up. And it absolutely does! Killer pivot, several incredible setup sets, lots of good Tera mixups and movepool options, and one of the only splashable hazard controllers. But seriously, let's stop messing around. Scyther B+ -> S. It's insanely splashable and a top 3 mon right now, I don't know why everyone keeps talking about an A rank as if it isn't head and shoulders above practically everything else.

to S. This dog is also crazy. Curse is great, Howl is great, but I think CB is the real difference maker that's letting it shine. While still a worse breaker than CB Redbull, the priority is more necessary than ever since we've lost some great speed control options. Not to mention, our Fairy-resists are few and far between and I'm watching more and more Swiss games where Florges beats a whole team (my own included). I am considering Arcanine or Redbull for every single team I make, this is another top mon.

to S. Ideally I would make these 3 my S-rank and nothing else, although I get he's more controversial. Band sets kill everything and I don't care if they also die, it does its job perfectly. Trailblaze is constantly threatening and one of the few genuine wincons we have aside from the other S-tiers. It's never not good and I think people only underrate it because it's already warped the meta around its presence so hard, with having a Helmet Ground on 99% of teams. And it's still crazy! Tera Fairy Bulk Up (still with Trailblaze) is really underrated too, just to surprise tera out of any weaknesses and even set up on other bulls locking themselves into Close Combat. I won't post the replays of it beating people's SCL testing teams but this mon is yikes and I'm a believer even if others aren't.

So yeah Redbull/Scyther/Arcanine S, I get if the redbull haters are too strong, also not opposed to Meloetta S but not /quite/ convinced yet, sorta leaning there the more I also get to use AV in addition to Specs though

UR -> B-/B. God I was the biggest Heasel hater forever, it legitimately sucked before. But now? Very strong, amazing speed tier, Intimidate immune, gets to fit Eviolite unlike Jeasel, SD and Trailblaze are both great but you can also go for Shadow Claw to nail the would-be stops, and at the end of the day almost nothing really takes it on long-term since we have to use all our phys-def mons early to stop the amazing breakers like my proposed S-ranks. I haven't decided how good I think this is yet, but I'd certainly get it above Jeasel's C+ ranking.

C+ -> B. Really good defensive pivot. No clue if offensive does anything, but we're kinda limited for SR pivots that don't pivot by letting themselves die as suicide lead. Every team needs a Ground, but this either takes the need for rocks of them (freeing up dual dance rhydon, resttalk muds, extra thing on Conda, etc.) or does so much with the extra moveslot that the defensive pivot is still worth it. Trying to dance around options like Energy Ball, Thunder Wave, Dazzling Gleam, and Knock Off can be a real headache when you don't know what it is. Oh and Healing Wish is really nice to have. Despite dying fast it's kinda easy to get it off right before you go and stack that shit for later. I think the ease it provides when building is something people might really appreciate if they give Mesprit a shot. Oh and Uxie /probably/ could get a bump too, but its speed messing with slow pivoting and less power so you can't do things like own every ground with Energy Ball or 2hko 0/0 bombirdier with uninvested gleam (which Mesprit does btw, while not getting 2hkod by knock, isn't that wild) kinda turned me off.

 

[gulch]

hi since changes are happening soon i wanna give my takes on some nominations and all that fun stuff.

C > At Least A-
pretty wholeheartedly agree with this, shifts took this from HO shitmon to offense staple within the span of about two weeks. honestly i'd say it's worth putting this in A+, but i can see lower A ranks as a conservative estimate. it's our only ground that's not super passive, threatens a lot, has defensive value, and has like five different teras it can utilize reasonably well. it's a little bit of a tera hog in some matchups because the base defensive typing is kinda gross, but when the upside is this big it's hard for me to count that against it too much. until bronzong comes back this is pretty much uncontested for me.

UR > C or C+
i've been on this wave since PUPL where have y'all been? the big tony mon is good, statline is passable enough for it to work and seed flare is massively annoying between the damage and spdef drops. coverage is good, ability is good, has a small amount of set variation going for it, overall very passable mon.

UR > B- or B
good mon! gastro has been running storm drain less and it's also just fast and strong, banded wave crash hits really really hard and there's not a lot that can be done about it. not much else to say this one is just solid.

 

[Aurist]

Only 1 thing I could think of that hasn't been nominated but seen play

Hattrem UR -> C+
The rise of HO, and in particular Evio Scyther HO has seen the rise of Hattrem as a functional Rocks preventer that supports its team with Healing Wish. Simply, in this meta a suicide support like this can do stuff as we saw in Jytcampbell vs gxe last week in SCL.

 

[Aurist]

Hi

The SV PU Viability Rankings have been updated!

The link to the full voting slate can be found here. Due to the entire slate being voted on and this being something of a VR reset, most of the ranks are not tracked in this post. The OP will show you all of the updates, and I would just be typing the full OP twice if I put it in here. However, a number of pokemon were voted to UR or voted to be ranked from UR. Those votes are the following:

Drop to UR
Charizard
Kingdra
Klawf

Rise from UR
Floatzel -> B
Oricorio -> B
Sneasel-Hisui -> B

Hattrem -> B-
Orthworm -> B-

Dipplin -> C
Magneton -> C
Shaymin -> C
Weezing -> C

Please feel free to discuss all the VR rankings, and due to this being an early-ish meta VR we are also accepting nominations immediately.

Bye

 

[Aurist]

Alright it may be my third post in a row but noone else has started nominating and I want to

Decidueye-H — B+ -> A-
Scarf Hecid is ridiculously consistent right now, just fast enough to outspeed unboosted offense mons, Triple Arrows has extremely limited switch ins and Hecid's typing gives it some mid game switching and u-turn pivoting power too. It can only be so good being a choiced fighting in Scyther meta, but it's just straight up better than B tier rn.

Ditto — C -> B
It's everyone's favourite canary in the coal mine warning everyone we're in a bad meta. Ditto is here being consistently competitively relevant once again, acting as a strong counter-sweeper for offense that blanket covers matchups because there's only so much coverage you can have right now. Seen recently winning in SCL and in PUWC, having a mixture of defensive utility in temporarily checking important mons while also threatening a wincon later. It even won in a (semi?)-stall team in SCL recently??

Tauros-P-F — A+ -> A/A-
Redbull is feeling less consistent right now with Arcanine, Def Rocky Helm Gastrodon and Bellibolt being definitive mons in many structures and Scyther threatening kills on it (can we plz ban this bug already). BU Tauros is still a big threat and CB is not easy to switch in on if you click right, but it runs into bad matchups a little too often to be as consistent as I think A+ tier merits.

Frosmoth — B+ -> A-/A
This thing might be the only consistent hazard remover in the tier, is a strong blanket special check and can be relied on to para stuff and pivot. QD is also a threat purely by virtue of how often the defensive set is used. No recovery and annoying double fire weakness limit its capacity but it's never having games where it doesn't do much.

I think that's all I have for now but I know yall have opinions so hit us with them plz

 

[Theycallmephil]

Okay okay okay, posting time(I'll use proper punctuation this time).

First off the stuff i agree with from the above post

B+ -> A-
Yes absolutely move this fella up, very very consistent special wall. Does exactly what I need from it, even without reliable recovery this fella is a TANK.

C -> B-
I think B is pushing it a bit however I've definitely noticed the influence this mon has lately.

Okay now I'll be more original

B+ -> A-(maybe even A lowkey..)
Okay just hear me out. In my previous post about this pokemon I talked about 2 sets. I talked briefly about it's defensive sets iirc? And I talked about its offensive nasty plot set. however as was shown in PUWC its also one of the most dangerous pokemon on terrain. Also I just think we underrated how dumb the NP set can be!!

A -> A+
Frankly that speed tier is stupid, it abuses tera very very well and I personally find it rather hard to cover this pokemon on solid teams without spamming priority.
The threat of having your walls poisoned is still very real which makes getting around it even more of a chore. I think this pokemon should move up to represent the massive influence it has.

A -> A-
I can't believe I'm doing this, blame asa.
But yeah golurk is having a weird and somewhat hard time lately.
We aren't seeing it nearly as frequently and when we do its not performing on an A tier level, atleast not consistently.
I'm sorry lurk..

A+ -> S
Obligatory Florges glaze session..
This mon is insane, I feel fine leaking that I was among the people worried about this mon on the most recent survey.
But beyond that it's just, so good.
Sure the wishpass set is honestly struggling rn, but scarf isn't, specs isn't, honestly even calm mind is doing fine
This pokemon is consistent and terrifying at times.
Until we get better steels this pokemon will remain in my top 3 in the tier.

C -> C+
Not a huge move but as far as terrain abusers I feel this fella has largely taken over sceptile, and for good reason.
It's actually very very threatening under terrain. Aswell as terrains uptick in viability I think this move I fair.

B- -> B
Noticing a theme with my noms last time.
I underestimated the mons I talked about.
You wanna talk consistent? Look no further guys. passimian stepped up after flamigos ban and I value it heavily, recommending its moved to match sneasel hisui atleast.

That's all for now!!
Sorry if its not particularly polished, was last minute.

 

[PorygonBG]

Honestly, Kingdra goes to C, It's a wallbreaker and, he is niche

deleted one of the other two posts, please avoid making one-liners - asa

 

[Aurist]

Honestly, Kingdra goes to C-, It's a wallbreaker and, he is niche

we don't have a C- rank right now, just because things haven't gotten that gradiated yet that we need a lower rank than C but not UR.

With that said, we'd accept arguments for the creation of C- if you think it's needed, or a nomination for Kingdra to UR if you thought that instead.

 

[PorygonBG]

Thanks for the response! This is just an argument and personal. I am not a professional. So it's up to you to see if I'm right ;)

 

[Theycallmephil]

EMERGENCY!!
Well not rlly...but I've taken it upon myself to scope out UR pokemon seeing pop-ups in high level play.
The one that stood out to me the most, and that was discussed in the PU discord is...Persian-Alola!!!

Okay enough yapping, let's talk about the pokemon and the nom I'm putting with it

UR -> C/C+
Okay not the highest rating but..I mean it's a persian. Okay let's get to it's positives
This pokemon is fast, like rlly fast. It also has parting shot and knock off, 2 very sought after traits in this tier for a dark type. Infact I believe the only other dark type with this combo is bombirdier.
Persian functions mostly as a utility pivot using these moves primarily. I believe these traits, along with its high speed and very solid typing, make persian a perfectly fine niche pick in SV PU.

Oh and I grabbed the replays from tours
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2238827252-39w5mw8l2k5dn95wh99bmhyu01conhvpw (PUWC thefranklin vs Miketrumpeter)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-805212 (PUWC Django vs luisin) (note persian loses this game)

And finally the battle credited w starting this... https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-804483
(SCL 2024 Mind gaming vs Leru)

That's all, I'm bored at home and felt this was a fun post to make.

 

[kiru]

A -> A+

If Arcanine and Scyther are S-ranks, I believe Rhydon should rise up. Arcanine has to run Choice Band and sacrifce being Stealth Rocks weak to check Rhydon. I do notice that setup sweepers can be in a pickle debating terastalizing (and not even OHKOing Rhydon). Even burning up a resource like terastalization vs Pokemon like Tera Grass Tauros and Tera Ice/Grass Toxtricity. Gastrodon is really great but I believe Rhydon is the secondary option because you either have one. Scyther just needs to go and the tier is probably fixed. Tera Ground Blast probably centralizes the tier a little too much. But I do believe Rhydon has cause the innovation of a lot of sets and still plays a crucial role in checking the general threats alongside another teammate.

B+ -> A

Delphox is really amazing. It's type combination allows you to be good vs sun teams and ur faster than Tauros-P and Scyther. I usually never have to tera this Pokemon and even if I do it's probably a cool tech or just to withstand an attack. Choice Specs Delphox is really heat if you have a spinner.

B -> B+

Altaria is nice utility for Arcanine and Tauros-P. Tera Steel allows you to WIll-O-Wisp Scyther if they manage to SD -> DWB. Fire Spin + Perish Song is good into Gastrodon but Will-O-Wisp sets in specific helps with Rhydon and Scyther. Brave Bird helps Altaria put out damage since the Fire-types smile at WOW. Defog is great utility asw and I think this Pokemon complements balance playstyles overall.

UR -> B+

Solid Choice Band and Choice Scarf user. Regardless of what you choose I recommend a secondary speed control option. Scrappy in SV allows Decidueye-H to be immune to Intimidate users like Tauros-P and Arcanine. Brave Bird is the key move on Choice Scarf sets luring a top threat in Tauros-P. I think this mon is a little unexplored but it has some cool tera options like Tera Fighting and Tera Ghost + Sneak + CB. It has U-turn also so thats always a plus.

 

[tom holland]

Hi some VR noms wow yay

Firstly, I must agree with Delphox to A or A-. Delphox is quite versatile and has some great situational abilities. Specifically, it's nice that it can reliably switch into threats like Florges, redbull, decid-h, some uxie/mesprits, etc. And then can either immediately threaten the opponent with specs, set up with nasty plot or calm mind, or even has options like hdb Wisp to cripple a switchin or check an attacker. Its also only outsped by 105s and higher, which is an excellent speed tier to exist in rn. I recently tried this set on a team and it's both fun and unfair.

load this in a Grassy terrain team and collect your profits. anyways, delphox is a diva we love her.

Speaking of Grassy terrain, thwackey deserves a promotion to B-. terrain feels great right now! I have been running multiple different versions of terrain for the past month or so, ranging from hyper offense to bulky offense with stuff like bellibolt and band redbull. It feels more consistent than C+, with honestly quite a variety of Abusers and an offensive meta to take advantage of. Off the top of my head, for Abusers we have oricorios, delphox, grafarai or whatever it's called, sceptile, hitmonlee, uxie, alcremie, etc. Thwackey itself puts in work many games as well, with a pretty powerful wood hammer, priority, the ability to knock or SD or pivot. Pokemon like grafrarai provide defensive utility with seed, for example being able to set up on and take advantage of decidueye. This one of many examples of offensive pokemon on terrain having defensive value, and this in my opinion adds to the viability of the archetype as a whole rn. As the viability of terrain improves, I think thwackey should rise with it.

 

[UberSkitty]

First I'd like to say I don't like the current list formatting with the chart, makes it harder to scroll through and find mons. Also kinda ugly. Change it back to list with minisprites imo

Rises:
UR to C
Pretty much just cuz it's in a sample team.
to C to B/B-
Never should have gone UR in the first place. It's a bulky af physical wall that can wall a lotta non-super effective physical attackers. It's also notably physically bulkier than our other knock absorber, Gastro (not to say it's better at it). Limited movepool kinda sucks, but it at least has Dragon Tail to stop it from being total setup fodder. It's also had some success in recent tours.
to A to A+
Kinda just does the same old Bellibolt things. Main reason I think it should rise now is cuz of the broken Gastro+Bellibolt core running around.
C+ to B/B-
While Emboar has really fallen off with its major competition from Redbull and other fire-types and fighting-types, but C+ is way too low since it's by all means still usable. Thanks to Reckless, thing hits like a truck and can 2HKO/OHKO redbull checks like Arcanine, Altaria, and Gastrodon. Dies quickly obviously but trades decently well, the living emboardiment of raw power.
Here's a replay of BloodAce bopping a team with Emboar's power and then it cleaning a game thanks to Healing Wish+Tailwind support:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-806465?p2
/ C to C+
Hitmonlee has already been mentioned, but I think Sceptile should rise alongside it with terrain rising in usage, aka their whole thing.

Drops:
A to A-
It's not horrible, but it feels like Gastro, and Rhydon to a lesser extent, is on every team and kinda bops it.
C+ to C
I haven't seen this mon in a hot second, society has chosen Helectrode over it as the fast Electric-type.
C+ to C
I keep forgetting this mon is ranked, it's just been sitting in C+ for what feels like forever. I can recognize it has its advantages over Florges, but you're not actually gonna choose it over Florges/Uxie.

 

[Oofhixd]

we don't have a C- rank right now, just because things haven't gotten that gradiated yet that we need a lower rank than C but not UR.

With that said, we'd accept arguments for the creation of C- if you think it's needed, or a nomination for Kingdra to UR if you thought that instead.

If were on the topic of adding new tiers (C-/S-) im gonna voice my opinions on them and the mons that should go into those tiers imo (also some other noms)

C -> C-
Abomasnow is a snow setter in a meta where snow is barely prevalent. Sure it can set up veil but its gonna get killed by any of the prevalent fires and some other mons can just kill it before, including redbull, scyther, k9, salazzle, oven and basically any fire mon that outspeeds it. In the recent VR changes, abomasnow was on the fence of being demoted to UR, but it eventually stayed in C, so i think C- is more than fair. That being said, you wont always not get veil set up, and snow teams can still be fine, they just dont get consistent usage, and a lot of the mons have bad coverage.

C -> C-
Oh yeah, this guy exists, this mon is the epitome of “It isn’t great, but its not so bad that its not worth ranking”, Im gonna go based on facts, and the facts are the alolagutor just doesnt really do much of anything rn, even with its large movepool. Grass/Dragon is an ass type being weak to the very crucial type of scyther, and being walled by so many things in the tier, but at least its versatile with sets such as cm, sd, trick scarf and KO sets. Unfortunately, most of these sets do pretty much nothing and half the time he’ll just get OHKO’d by any super effective attack - which 1/3 of the types have against him and his base speed stat of 45 means hes not gonna be outspeeding and OHKO-ing anything

C+ -> C-
Im grouping these 3 mons together because they all have the same premise in my head - where are they? These 3 mons are getting basically 0 usage and are outclassed by other things in their roles, for example vikavolt, just use toxtricity its basically better in every way. With that out of the way, these 3 mons still technically have niches that need to be respected to some degree.

C/UR -> C-
Sorry for the short nom, but these two mons fill the exact same role. The role is, if oricorio = want, but fire mon = taken, then choose either of these. I obviously think ghost bird is better, but psychic bird still has some niches and is still fine if you prefer it.

Ok, now for my hottest take

D -> C-, if the condition is met that scyther is banned
Ok call me crazy, but with scyther gone, this mon isnt so bad that it isnt rankable. Its a spinner, which is a good start and also has very min-maxed stats. If, this thing doesnt get outsped and killed, it can hit back with significant damage with cc or triple axel depending on the mon. Also if you think about it as being walled by ghosts who stop spinning, lets go through the ghost mons that are actually kinda usable at least. the first 4 its likely to kill with axel, hoopa probably takes big damage or dies, and froslass is, a suicide lead and also isnt common rn, that only leaves houndstone. With only 1 mon to prevent his spinning antics, that could acfually be quite threatening of a spinner. If you run Rapid spin/cc/triple axel, you have one free moveslot which is super versatile with bullet punch, mach punch, bulk up, sucker punch, rock slide and stone edge all as solid options. Overall, this is very BoD but i think he deserves to be ranked if scyther gets banned

Those were my C- noms bc i cant think of any more right now, time for S-

S/S/A+/A -> S- alr you 4 get over here. these mons are either underrated or overrated, scyther and melo arent absolutely absurd like everyone was making them out to be, (they were both close to staying in A+ on the voting anyways), florges is doing florges things like walling everything, and was close to S on the voting, and rhydon is severely underrated being super versatile and can fill most roles you need it to, other than that, i could see zoroark in S-, but im currently not really a believer as it hasnt really shown to be super meta defining like the other 4

here are some quick agrees/disagrees with very short or no reasoning with them


Agree with:


A -> A-, see my posts earlier abt it
C/C+/C -> B-/B-/C+ terrain is fine rn and i think its a bit undervalued
C -> B actually a fat fuck which is bulkier than gastro, and can spam dtail, sad its movepool is ass tho
UR -> C, certainly better than most UR mons, could even see C+
B- -> B, just honestly feels more consistent
A -> A+ insane speed, can sweep most unprepared teams and can run specs without worrying about speed
B -> A- two mons that are fat and have nothing else in common, but moth and uxie can fit onto many teams easily and fill up a last teamslot
B+ -> A much better than normal decid, scarf sets are terrifying rn
A -> A+ deserves to be in gastro tier, + gastrobolt is insane

Neutral on:

A+ -> A/A- i dont really care where you keep this thing, but i do agree A+ is too high

Disagree with:

C+ -> B+ id even argue C for emboar, i think the competiton is currently way too harsh for fires and it just doesnt do enough
B -> B+ can be really useful, but fills really specific roles and not versatily unless you want to be gimmicky

Alr, that was my post, tysm for reading and lmk if you disagree with anything, bye guyssssssssss <3

 

[Theycallmephil]

Okay okay
To avoid shamelessly double posting I wanna include a few things in 1 post

Okay first and most importantly we need to talk about Stall.
Most importantly these fools



UR -> C+
The simplest of the noms, this pokemon is a nuisance and sure to see a bit of usage when stall starts being relevant in a tier. I saw someone recently say it lives and dies by encore and will o wisp, while I agree I think we outta throw recover in there as access to recovery is essential to its role here. So why is sableye good? Well besides those 3 moves its very convenient typing leaving it with only 1 weakness and 3 immunitys allows it alot of opportunities to get in and be obnoxious.



B- -> B/B+
Naclstack has been consistently on the rise not just on stall, but balance aswell for some time. It has possibly the easiest buttons of any mon in the tier, boasting recover, Stealth rock and its signature move salt cure. Providing hazards and consistent deterrent against literally anything is huge for all teams, but especially these bulkier styles that lean towards longer games. Also and I can't stress this enough, rock types are stupid rn.



UR -> C/C+
While on the surface it appears outclassed by other special walls, even amongst fellow ice types, it has a few things that allow it to thrive on stall structures atleast.
First of all that incredible speed tier, 105 is a very very important benchmark right now with pokemon such as Scyther, Zoroark, and pawmot. This means it gets chances to recover vs more pokemon than its rivals, as well as snag opportunities for its other skill, rapid spin.
Able to function as hazard removal, a special wall, a general nuisance and a gastrodon check due to freeze-dry the stars have truly aligned for the snowflake.

STALL REPLAYS!!!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-806578
(Toto vs bleahey)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-806500
(Pix vs ampha)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-806335
(Pix vs cow)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-806490
(Pix vs Obb) [stall loses]

Okay that's all for stall, happy to see the style picking up as diversity is nice for the tier.

Addition noms I wanted to talk about

UR -> B
Okay hear me out it's similar to dipplin who's also picking up recently. Maybe not directly similar as in play the same, but similar as in both mons were designed to be annoyingly hard to kill.
Porygon has all the typical trademarks of a bulky Lower tier fella, Eviolite, recover, and a status inflicting move.
It carries out its role rather well.
Oh also trace is an amusing ability.

C -> B-/B
Twave is so unbelievably annoying rn, it has a GREAT Scyther MU, and ironpress is downright villainous in some MUs.
Oh did I mention it's a rock type and those are good rn. Not much to say here.
ÜN ÜN ÜN

Adding this after posting cus I forgot it but!!
UR -> C
This pokemon is literally fine, decent HO piece with fine set variety. Idk why it was UR'd but here's to righting that wrong.

I promised a surprise mon in PUcord before actually thinking of one so I'll fire out a few ideas

UR -> C
It's like an off-brand Salazzle kinda.
Okay its not like..great, but it's speed tier is beautiful and offensive fire types kinda rule around here rn, solid against decid and easily revenging Scyther are nice traits for a mon to have, as for usage its shown up in PUWC but has been somewhat unsuccessful to my knowledge.

UR -> C
Corvy uses the blimp and we've discussed it a fair bit, it's actually pretty solid and got atleast 1 win in PUWC.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-805840
(Corvy vs ruby iirc)

Okay the last thing I wanted to touch on was something Oofhixd talked about first, the addition of S- and C- tiers
I think it's worth noting that C- would be the new lowest actual tier, as D only exists for unviable mons that miraculously make usage.
I personally disagree with adding S- because I feel that side of the tierlist is already central enough and doesn't need a bonus tier. However I do support C- for 2 reasons, C tier is huge, there are some mons that aren't quite fully viable but have niches that I think award them C- rank if avaliable
Some such mons are


That's all for now!! As always love you PU

 

[Django]

Agree on the rank updates for Sableye, Cryogonal, and Naclstack. That stall team is really very strong and has had good results on ladder as well. To throw another wcop replay in there: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9pu-805212

While on the surface it appears outclassed by other special walls, even amongst fellow ice types, it has a few things that allow it to thrive on stall structures atleast.
First of all that incredible speed tier, 105 is a very very important benchmark right now with pokemon such as Scyther, Zoroark, and pawmot. This means it gets chances to recover vs more pokemon than its rivals, as well as snag opportunities for its other skill, rapid spin.
Able to function as hazard removal, a special wall, a general nuisance and a gastrodon check due to freeze-dry the stars have truly aligned for the snowflake.

Yeah the main thing making this viable is hard beating Gastro. Access to fast Haze is also great as a secondary check to CM Florg, Articuno etc.

 

[DugZa]

Hello, gonna make some noms even though I hate doing the write-ups!

UR -> C/C+
UR -> C/C+
UR -> B-
B- -> B+
Firstly, gonna start off with the stall guys since I agree with the posts above; the playstyle is getting significantly more traction recently with pretty good results; Sableye, Naclstack, Cryogonal and Porygon2 have all proven to be great on different stall structures albeit to different extents.

Sableye and Cryogonal are on a similar boat to me; they are great on stalls but are hard to fit on non-stall structures. However, they perform their roles extremely well on stall so they need to rise from UR at the very least. As for Sableye, Prankster Encore + WoW and great defensive typing just makes it really annoying to face more often than not despite the bulk being not-so-great. Cryogonal has a great speed tier and with Haze it's able to check a lot of Pokemon like Articuno-G and Tatsugiri which can be annoying for Stall teams; with tera (Steel) in play, it can also deal with stuff like Venusaur which stall teams struggle against. For now I find it hard to justify using them on other archetypes so just a simple raise from UR to C or C+ is fine.

Porygon2 is a unique case, its main niche is its ability Trace which allows it to check Pokemon like Toxtricity and Oricorio. Its also decent into the Ghost-types in the tier. It also has the option of running BoltBeam coverage which a lot of Pokemon dislike switching into. On top of that, with the Eviolite boost its stats are just really really good and it never dies.

Naclstack is probably the best of the four; Salt Cure is just a very OP move. It's bulk is also really great comfortably avoiding 2HKOes vs. stuff like Gastrodon and Cramorant and in returning crippling or forcing them out with Salt Cure. Main reason I have this nommed higher than the other three is that its not limited to stall and has proven to be effective even on Balance/BO structures. Its also has the added benefit of being one of, if not the best Salazzle switch-in in the tier. Its also a great rocker that can keep rocks up pretty consistently.

B -> B+
I think Altaria is super underrated; its a great defogger, spreads burns extremely well and Natural Cure allows it to switch-in on a bunch of stuff quite nicely. It can also check most of the Fighting-types really well and other major threats like Pauros-Fire and Arcanine (depending on sets). Its also very good at keeping rocks off vs. most of the rockers in the tier, and our limited hazard removal options is another boon for its viability. Its also definitely better than all the other Pokemon in B right now.

A- -> B+
Goodra being A- alongside the other Pokemon in A- feels silly; it doesn't get anywhere near the same usage as the others in A- and when it does get used, it hasn't really had any amazing showings whatsoever. Specs and AV are probably fine sets in practice but we are yet to see it do anything noteworthy enough to justify ranking it so high on the same level as the others there.

There's probably more that I'll do some other time but these were the main ones I wanted to talk about. I think Meloetta and Arcanine should drop to A+ and Gastrodon should rise to S instead but we are not ready for that conversation yet so I will leave it for another day!

 

[PorygonBG]

C+/C -> B- Super staller. Prankster is really great: Wips checks sweepers and wallbreakers, Recover is really defensive. and Encore is for preventing setups as well as healing, making it more defensive. Rocky Helmet is the best item: Rocky Helmet + wow greatly checks all physical Pokémon.

 

[IlluminateRanch]

Hello everyone!

I wanted to write about a pokemon I’ve found a lot of success and fun using but isn’t on the VR, and I’m here to make a case for why it should at least be an option. I think it’s strong, excels in its niche, and while it has some flaws, is certainly a worthy addition to some teams. This is my request for Arboliva to be added to the Gen 9 PU Viability Ranking.


UR -> C+

Let's start with the positives: Arboliva is tied for the highest special attack out of any legal Grass type pokemon with the two Exeggutor forms. It reaches insane damage thresholds, such as OHKOing Florges with Grassy Terrain Leaf Storm and 2HKOing Wo-Chien with Alluring Voice when ran with Choice Specs. Very few pokemon survive two neutral hits, and most die to one super effective hit unless they’re absurdly bulky.

Arboliva has… weird coverage. On one hand, the only moves it really has are Leaf Storm, Alluring Voice, Earth Power, Hyper Voice and Tera Fire Tera Blast. There's others like more consistent Grass stab and maybe Pollen Puff, but in general you're using Leaf Storm/Alluring Voice/Earth Power and then Tera Blast if Tera Fire and Hyper Voice if any other Tera type. The upside? They're all you really need. Super Effective moves basically guarantee OHKOs, and most top tier pokemon are weak to at least one of those types.

In addition, it's notably bulky on the special side and not really lacking on the physical side, allowing it to be a decent switch into stray Knock Offs and Fake Outs, which additionally activate Seed Sower.

Seed Sower allows you to take a few stray hits even better giving it some slight recovery and honest to God a Leaf Storm that can muscle through most neutral targets if they’re not prepared. It can OHKO Meteor form Minior, for example. You could also run Harest as a potential Sun team, but I don’t feel it’s worth it. Wo-Chien is such a good wall that even with potential Sub+Seed Aguav Harvest shenanigans, it’s not really going to be worth it imo.

As previously mentioned, Arboliva has great matchups into particularly strong pokemon like Gastrodon, Rhydon, Tatsugiri, Toxtricity, Decidueye, Scrafty, and more. And that’s not mentioning the potential OHKO potential from predicted switches from Arcanine, Tauros, Delphox, Passimian, Zoroark, Colossal, Mudsdale, Skuntank, and more.

Also, they have really big numbers in damage calcs. Come on, admit you get a hint of joy by seeing Arboliva doing nearly 400% of Gastrodon’s health.

All of this makes Arboliva a genuinely great wallbreaker, at least in my eyes.

Unfortunately, Arboliva isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. I said Arboliva has a “winning matchup” against most of those pokemon, but the truth is that it’s not as good as it seems. Sure, all of those are OHKOs without any potential survival ranges, but Arboliva is slow. VERY slow. Every single one of those pokemon are going to be hitting you first, and they’re going to be doing a lot. All of those pokemon have moves that hurt Arboliva real bad in return, doing anywhere from 40-60% from a neutral hit. While 60% in exchange for an OHKO is still a winning matchup, it isn’t nearly as good as you would ideally like. As well, while you get OHKOs on switch-ins, you also end up getting forced out a lot from things like Leaf Storm special drops, locking in to a bad move for the current pokemon if you predicted wrong, or simply a revenge-switch, Arboliva needs to switch out a ton. It would really like support, too. Ideally, something with Wish or Healing Wish to keep it healthy enough to keep taking hits.

Even worse is the choice of STAB. I’ve mentioned Leaf Storm a lot because it meshes well with Choice Specs and is insanely strong, but of course is only 90% accurate. You could switch to the more reliable Energy Ball, but you lose a ton of good damage ranges and essentially can’t “muscle through” with neutral hits anymore, especially outside of Grassy Terrain.

These are real, genuine flaws that I feel hurt Arboliva’s viability, but I think they’re far from a dealbreaker. I still think, in spite of the problems, Arboliva is genuinely underrated and has a lot of potential.

Finally, I want to talk about other grass types currently on the VR and how Arboliva compares to them.

Venusaur: Venusaur's main niche is being a Chlorophyll Sun sweeper, whereas Arboliva moreso specializes in being a bulky wallbreaker.

Thwackey, Virizion: Both of these Grass types are moreso physical attackers, with Virizion running Swords Dance and Thwackey running Choice Band. They are both fast and frail sweepers, not wallbreaks like Arboliva.

Rotom-Mow, Electrode-Hisui: Two fast grass/electric types known for great pivoting. Rotom-Mow often runs scarf and Electrode-Hisui is the fastest pokemon in the tier. Neither of which have the same role as Arboliva.

Whimsicott: Very obviously fills a different role, with Whimsicott being a Pranker support pokemon

Wo-Chien: Wo-Chien is a wall, while Arboliva is a wallbreaker. Very different roles.

Decidueye-Hisui, Decidueye: Decidueye is strong for its hazard removal and priority, as well as a great secondary type. Deciueye-Hisui is a pivot which prefers moves like U-Turn and prefers to run Choice Scarf, also being a physical attacker. Neither of them are particularly similar to Arboliva.

Sceptile: Sceptile is fast and loves being used on Terrain+Unburden teams. While Seed Sower isn’t as reliable as other forms of setting up Grassy Terrain, it’s still more likely to use Arboliva WITH Sceptile as opposed to choosing one over the other. While Arboliva mostly wants to support itself, it can totally work to help other Terrain users as well.

Shaymin: Definitely the pokemon who you’re most going to have to debate against using over Arboliva. Scarf sets allow it to be incredibly annoying, while also having a strong Grass stab, Earth Power, and Fairy coverage with the added option of Air Slash for Flying coverage. Also, since it can attack first, it can do much more damage without taking damage. What Arboliva has over it, though, I feel is valuable. It’s much better at tanking hits if something DOES outspeed it (which isn’t terribly unlikely, especially for only having 328 as a scarf user), and Arboliva is much better at punishing predicted switches due to being WAY stronger. For example, switching in an Arcanine on Shaymin could lead to it doing 55-65% with Earth Power, whereas Arboliva will OHKO as long as you’re running Specs.

In Conclusion: I don’t think Arboliva is a meta-defining threat, but I do think it deserves a place on the Viability Rankings at the very least. Its strengths are genuinely amazing, but its weaknesses are also very jarring. I would love to see more people giving it a try and seeing if they fall in love with it as much as I have.

I also have some replays of Arboliva doing well and a small pokepaste of my favorite sets. I’m sure a genuinely talented player/builder could do much more than this, but this is what I got.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2243876520
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2243862575-qnx11i7uk4pfnqiem44xrn1ndpypjpgpw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2245392285-m6lm9lmvtl7zrgsvuj37raa06vn4uk8pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pu-2245091998

https://pokepast.es/2d2d5c3943421efb

also credits to Theycallmephil for helping me with research!

 

[Aurist]

Just a brief post to let you know that deadline for this round of nominations is the end of Sunday 24th, after which the VR council will vote on nominations. If you think something is missing speak now or forever* hold your peace!

*forever means "until the next round of nominations after this one"

 

[Breakfastbiscuit]

Personal nominations

A -> B
This one was a surprise to see placed in the same tier as Decidueye. I’ve seen one good performance in PUWC (Way to go, Platum) and outside of that nothing. Just not sold on it being rated that high.

C -> U/R
I don’t think there is any place for this even on grassy terrain.

B- -> C-
Sorry but I just never see windows where this poke gets to lock into cc or take advantage of defiant there are just way better options.

B -> C
B -> C
B -> C

C -> B
I don’t think there is much to argue against a rise. It’s doing great right now. Sticky hold is just super solid.

U/R -> B
I’m seeing a good amount of nominations for B- and I think that’s a little too reserved. The amount of favourable matchups that this guy offers right now is superb.

The combination of encore willo wisp as well as knock off makes this poke a real nuisance and prankster allows you to play a little bit fast and loose allowing you the luxury of not keeping it healthy knowing you can recover it on something safer.

I personally feel this poke is even better than the credit it is currently receiving.

U/R -> B
Without going into depth this poke gives many top threats a rather miserable matchup. Often surprising damage output with great coverage to boot.

A+ -> S
I think belli is probably one of the best pokes in the tier and is the biggest staple apart from Florges. Easily the safest pivot truly punishing anything trying to block it.

Mentions from the last few posts I agree with

A+ -> S
B+ -> A-
B -> B+ (Possibly even A-
UR -> C+ (Have been saying this)
C -> B-
C+ -> B-
UR -> C