Seems like I didn't explain properly, but I meant specifically for tiering to not overuse Tera as an evaluation because everything has the potential with such a hyperflexible tool like Tera, but with that kind of stuff you can kind of do the complete same as is for most of these with different choices (e.g. sub for alo toxic over tera poison/steel tusk since its 4th move slot is free anyway).
Ok but here's the thing, it still benefits offense more. For example, if I use Tera Dragon on Alomomola, or Tera Grass on SpD Heatran, or Tera Steel on Zapdos, sure these are nice buffs in some way, but these aren't game changing. Compare this to Tera Poison BU Great Tusk, which ignores Toxic, boosts up much more than your team can reasonably handle without direct hard counters like Dondozo (not random Tera Bug Pokemon because... who?), and at the very least removes Landorus-T from play because it got a good prediction, and sniped it with Ice Spinner. Sure, you can revenge kill it with, say Iron Valiant (heavily assuming it didn't Rapid Spin once), but I shouldn't have had to lose Landorus-T or have Alomomola be setup fodder for it. Meanwhile, going back to those defensive Pokemon Terastalizing, Tera Dragon Alomomola now loses to Weavile, something it should ordinarily check; Tera Grass Heatran loses to Sludge Wave Iron Moth, which it should ordinarily check: Tera Steel Zapdos loses to Great Tusk, which it should ordinarily check. Meanwhile, what consquence did Great Tusk have terastalizing? That Landorus-T does around 30% maximum to +1 Def Tera Poison Great Tusk, which is minimal in the grand scheme of things for that Great Tusk, as it either sets up more or kills with Ice Spinner. It even limits Iron Valiant's chance to revenge-kill it because it resists both STAB and it's not like unboosted Thunderbolt is going to do the job. As for the other threats, Dragonite really isn't scary for BU Great Tusk for the same reasons as Landorus-T, phasing isn't common at all in the tier, most paralysis setters either get destroyed before they can use it (or they have to burn Tera to avoid so, even then Rapid Spin almost negates this so what's even the point), meaning it's mostly Moltres that beats this, which, I'll be honest, isn't that good in the grand scheme of things.
As for Iron Moth, only Rillaboom, Weavile and Urshifu/Barraskewda can reliably revenge kill it as even Tera Normal Dragonite can't OHKO it from full, so "easily revenge killing it" is definitely easier said than done, especially since a lot of the time Iron Moth just enables something like Tapu Lele to click Psychic after removing Heatran. Suggesting that these defensive/offensive counterplay options cover 80% of the metagame, and a lot of the time they don't work, is actually a bit concerning NGL.
I'm aware of this, but I'm actually going to disagree here and say that they're actually not that hard to stop at all but require a different mindset to without Tera. For example with Dragonite, I can always pressure it with something like Toxic on Alomomola or Lando-T and, even if it does do something like Tera Steel, I know that I should still have something else as a backup answer or just simply can wear it down with stat reductions and offensive threats (like Lando's EQ). Kyurem is the only one that's not really as clear-cut but I really don't think it's close to healthy with or without Tera just because of how rediculous its set potential is (and honestly Tera helps mitigate Kyurem's potential output because you dont need something a combination of, say, SpDef Moltres + PDef Alo just to cover its most threatening sets).
This is kinda leaning towards the "just play better" argument I'm sick of DNB using, but I'll hear you out on this one. This pressure can be seen from the opponent as well. If you Flip Turn with Alomomola expecting Dragonite to Tera Steel but it doesn't, then what? You have to spend another turn switching Alomomola in from Landorus-T which is directly risking the latter eating an Ice Spinner as it comes in, while Dragonite can easily bait you out again, this time WITH Tera Steel and setup on you further. And this is assuming it actually is Tera Steel; Dragonium Z Sets can simply just nuke Alomomola as it comes in to pressure with Toxic, at the very least leaving it with 20% left, which is not ideal for pivoting around. Some people might play better than others and that's fair, but I don't think relying on pure "skill" (when a lot of the time it could easily be a lucky guess) is healthy for a tier because it only makes playing the tier more Toxic and makes the ladder more frustrating to play with all their gimmick strategies.
This is a good time to bring up how much it hurts to have a lack of defensive Tera, and every time I see Tera get banned from a meta (like SV STABmons and ND Godly Gift) it becomes significantly harder to make consistent teams because the offensive threats generally get stronger since they don't have to worry about resistances as much while the defensive Pokemon get worse as they lose a lot of their flexibility.
Well, if defensive Terastalization is so good, why isn't it working? If it was there wouldn't be this much support for a Tera suspect, so clearly something is wrong, and a lot of the time, these defensive Teras don't matter as much. Even if Alomomola uses Tera Bug against Great Tusk, it still isn't beating it because it's immune to Toxic. Even if Heatran can use Tera Grass versus Iron Moth, it's not like it OHKOs with anything so now it's just weak to Sludge Wave which is arguably WORSE. Defensive Tera is not only always a reaction to offensive Tera, it's not a guaranteed fix, and if that defensive piece falls even WITH Tera, well then you've just burnt Tera which might've been useful for an opposing Iron Valiant, Iron Crown etc etc.
You mentioned Rain as your first example, but all of these get harder to answer without Tera as now they can worry less about if Heatran has Tera Grass + Toxic to help handle Archaludon and Raging Bolt or if Garganacl has Tera Grass or Dragon to pressure Skewda/MPert/Floatzel/Basc etc etc.
It's not like there aren't defensive Pokemon that don't need to Tera to beat these guys. Aside from offensive pressure from Iron Valiant, Mega Lopunny etc, simply using Ground-types like Ting-Lu, Landorus-T and even Great Tusk are good enough answers into Archaludon and Raging Bolt, with Hippowdon and Clodsire being even better anchors if you want something with more longevity. Sure they have good STAB, but at least they can't completely dodge their weakness when they do get outpositioned, which is exactly what Tera let's them do. Same thing applies to all these other guys; Alomomola, Toxapex, Ogerpon-W, Dragonite, Raging Bolt, Tangrowth etc etc they all handle Rain-teams fine enough it's not like Defensive Tera is mandatory for these to work. And its not like this just forces you to run fat balance teams either, since last time I checked, Landorus-T + Ogerpon-W is a pretty solid core on offense regardless of Tera being banned or not.
I even remember saying a couple weeks after we hit Tera in ND Godly Gift that its ban was probably a mistake as 1) we kinda sucked at building properly lmao and 2) a ton of offensive threats like Blaziken, PDon, Pao etc became a lot harder to handle while the defensive Pokemon lost a lot of their flexibility and consistency.
Well this tier isn't NDGG is it, no offense. It's not like these tiers are super similar you can suggest the exact issue for one tier applies to another. If Tera being banned is a problem fair enough, but as far as I'm concerned it's the best option we've got to a tier that doesn't rely on sudden wincons in a single turn thanks to this mechanic. Tera Fairy, Ground, Poison etc are all permanent. Z-Moves, ignoring the fact that not everyone wants to run them or can afford to, are a one time use only, so missing that chance is almost game over for that said attacker, including monsters like Kartana. That's what makes Terastal more oppressing.
To quickly attempt to correct how I describe my point in the previous post, I think tiering with the consideration of Pokemon in general is better (in general being how the Pokemon on average is handled in the builder and ingame, with Tera in consideration if said Tera is common enough) rather than attempting to focus on what it can potentially do in more extreme conditions. Following this criteria here, only Kyurem right now feels like it's not consistently answerable and its presense is definitely something that can be somewhat easily felt IMO with or without Tera. Everything else, including the Pokemon that are slightly or significantly better with Tera around like Tusk, WOger, and DNite, feels a lot more manageable overall since they still allow a lot of freedom in the builder and ingame in how they're handled. I understand that Tera isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I do think that overall its presense improves the tier significantly
Just letting you know, this is one of the better arguments for DNB that I've seen. But regardless, having a tier this heavily impacted by Tera, even if said Tera can be counterplayed, is not healthy for the long-term, even if removing Tera might limit defensive counterplay to a specific threat. This isn't nearly as bad as having almost every offensive threat blow through their defensive checks that aren't prepared for a sudden type change that allows the opposition to setup more or simply remove this counterplay with boosted attacks or newly found coverage. This puts the opponent at a backfoot majority of the time, having to scramble for a piece of defense that can defensively Tera against the sweeper, hoping the sweeper doesn't anticipate this by using coverage or even just switching. This isn't healthy, and it's why, despite the increase of BO usage throughout NDPL/FL, offense still remains impactful and almost dominant as always. And its because of Tera we're forced into this loop with banning Pokemon like Kyurem which only ends up making something else too oppressive to deal with, like Dragonite, like Ogerpon-W or even other threats like Gliscor. You can argue that playing better will always beat Tera, but this can only be true so many times, and there will always be games where skill will never save you from, say, a sudden Tera Ghost that shuts down your carefully maneuvered and planned ESpeed Dragonite sweep. Having a Pokemon be banned because it is naturally stronger than everything else is much better than having a Pokemon be banned because it can abuse the hell out of this mechanic.
Ban Tera.
