Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Delibird Heart said:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2245048214 I might just be the best stall player of all time...

What did you guys vote on the glis suspect? I was hesitant but ended up voting dnb. Can't stay mad at a face like that.

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No fucking way you posting this like I wasn't ghosting you the entire time and you were hovering over the forfeit button before I convinced you that you could win by switching between pex and gking 32 turns in a row :sob:

edit: I see now that this is a different replay, disregard.
 
sire clod said:
No fucking way you posting this like I wasn't ghosting you the entire time and you were hovering over the forfeit button before I convinced you that you could win by switching between pex and gking 32 turns in a row :sob:

edit: I see now that this is a different replay, disregard.
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Always tryna throw me under the bus... You're making me pull out the x files. Viewers, enjoy.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2140250382
 
Delibird Heart said:
Always tryna throw me under the bus... You're making me pull out the x files. Viewers, enjoy.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2140250382
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Lmao I see I should have gotten in the Discord VC Earlier. Btw Sire Clod should play more of my shite teams (he played a dd sub roost jaw lock grassy seed rmoon team I made in 5 minutes)
RainebowValiant said:
The issue is this is HO. Having ANY Pokémon who hard wall it is a major issue, as being forced to sacrifice itself or switch out in front of common Pokémon is a massive flaw.
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I'm sorry to erm ackshully you but the whole point of HO is to stack inconsistent Pokémon on the same team in the hopes that one of them will have a good MU. (Ignore dark spam and special spam) Nothing is stopping you from just literally not sending it out until its checks are weakened, and with TB Fire you beat corv and skarm.
RainebowValiant said:
If you need Tblast to be a sweeper, you're not a good sweeper.
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Regieleki in OU:
Anyways I don't see the problem of having a single sweeper that abuses Tblast but needs it on your team, and plenty of Pokémon really need Tblast for coverage like Moth.
 
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RainebowValiant said:
In the words of great leader Duckular, Serp is a noob trap.

I mean I wouldn't go that far, but Serp is overrated because it's not a very good sweeper. It's not great at OHKOing things as it should even at +4 or +6 such as Corv, Iron Moth, Kingambit, etc. It's still a good webs mon, but it's often hard to fit and isn't on a lot of the best webs teams.

Edit: plus it loses to most scarfers and booster speed mons after webs are court changed like Iron Valiant, Enamorus and the like! Still solid, just not meta on webs.
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Did you really say it can't beat Pokémon that 4x resist its STABs? LMAO what do you think
 
RainebowValiant said:
If you need Tblast to be a sweeper, you're not a good sweeper. Serp has like zero coverage outside of Tblast and one STAB so it's a mediocre sweeper.

Not saying serp is bad! It's a good disruption mon and is definitely alright on webs. It's just not a staple as is commonly believed.
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Remember when people said Tera Stellar would make it Ubers? Pepperidge Farm Members
 
Now that the gliscor suspect is over I just wanted to give huge props to the council for listening to the community and taking measures to create a better discussion system. I genuinely feel like the qualified discussion forum was greatly beneficial for having proper discussions that revolve around the said brokenness of the said pokemon instead of the nonsense that clogs up the forum and wastes everyone's time.

In all my time on smogon as an active user (which wasn't too long lmao) i feel like this was the most cohesive discussion we've had on the forum that delt with the complexities of gliscor's ban-worthiness whether it gets banned or not, I felt like there were great conversations and I think that deserves props.

I strongly belive that qualified discussions are a positive and I think this part of the suspect process should be kept 100%.

I actually enjoyed my time being a part of the discussion. :heart:
 
Well I didn't have the energy to make a huge post regarding my opinions on saiyan saga piccolo but a scorpion so I am just going to explain why I think it should stay unbanned in one quick paragraph.

To put it simply ground flying is 4x weak to one of the best and most common offensive types ice. Sure gliscor can switch out but you can say that about other 4x weak pokemon but most of those aren't broken. Sure gliscor has poison heal and protect but considering how common it is for gliscor to protect this can be easily telegraphed and allows for you to do things like send another mon in or even set up. There are also plenty of moves that take advantage of toxic being permanent with the main one being hex (which is stopped by tera normal but it takes every other version of gliscor's lunch money). Then there are the teras. While gliscor is a solid tera abuser on both major sets (sd and spikes) both of the most common teras (especially tera normal) can also be easily telegraphed and neither type is super sound defensively. Tera water (on the spikes set) loses to ogerpon w kyurem rillaboom raging neck (bolt) and plenty of other pokemon I can't think of right now (I just woke up lol) while tera normal (sd set) loses to...every fighting type in ou basically unless you count iron hands as ou in your heart and even then iron hands beats non earthquake variants. All in all while definitely annoying I think gliscor is not broken nor unhealthy though not exactly healthy either (it is like canned fruit it is healthier than stuff like candy and chips but it isn't as healthy as real fruit).

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Ive played primarily stall up to like 1900. IDK if its just people playing shit bad into it or if its actually good it feels strong tbh. But I did make some alterations to the classic scor/sini/blissy/quag/pex/corv team

Scor is tera dark Spd def SD eq/KO

This is to help with making progress and breaking against common structures. A lot of teams depend on stuff like galar future sight to make progress against stall and this absolutely blanks it. It also creates an impending threat they have to account for. Ive found the lack of spikes has not hurt this team because tspikes are a very strong wincon by themselves.

CM Sini. This is another alteration to make progress against teams. I found that foul play really only have much use against Ogre which this team can generally handle otherwise through outplay. I think the added power and threat late game is a fair tradeoff but I wouldnt be mad if people said I was wrong.

Ultimately the biggest thing is to look at their team and decide how you can make tspikes stick. Once those are down its very hard to overcome this team.

I also changed quag to Tera ghost so it never loses to sd scor.
 

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JackRG said:
Knock off?
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Doesnt do enough to matter after boots are knocked. It really depends on what the second move is.

Between corv, sini, and quag and pex hazes its usually enough to stall it out.

Ive played over a hundred matches and can recall once where sd scor got out of hand and it was mostly due to my poor plays
 
CaptainSC said:
Now that the gliscor suspect is over I just wanted to give huge props to the council for listening to the community and taking measures to create a better discussion system. I genuinely feel like the qualified discussion forum was greatly beneficial for having proper discussions that revolve around the said brokenness of the said pokemon instead of the nonsense that clogs up the forum and wastes everyone's time.

In all my time on smogon as an active user (which wasn't too long lmao) i feel like this was the most cohesive discussion we've had on the forum that delt with the complexities of gliscor's ban-worthiness whether it gets banned or not, I felt like there were great conversations and I think that deserves props.

I strongly belive that qualified discussions are a positive and I think this part of the suspect process should be kept 100%.

I actually enjoyed my time being a part of the discussion. :heart:
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That is true, I was reading the discussion forum yesterday night and it was concise, only 3 pages, and there was high quality discussion. It is not only useful for qualified players to discuss, but also for the rest of us to read.
 
This is just a hunch on my part but I HIGHLY suspect a large portion of the Ban Gliscor crowd don't genuinely think it's broken, but rather just dislike playing against stall so they choose to vote ban anyways.

It's not something anyone can stop, as the reasons people vote Ban or DNB are valid in their own ways, but I think if Gliscor wasn't so associated with stall, the ban ratio would be significantly lower.
 
RainebowValiant said:
This is just a hunch on my part but I HIGHLY suspect a large portion of the Ban Gliscor crowd don't genuinely think it's broken, but rather just dislike playing against stall so they choose to vote ban anyways.

It's not something anyone can stop, as the reasons people vote Ban or DNB are valid in their own ways, but I think if Gliscor wasn't so associated with stall, the ban ratio would be significantly lower.
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In my opinion, Gliscor's Ban will benefit Non Gliscor Stall the most and in fact, my Main reason (among others) for the Ban is the fact that Gliscor makes the Meta more polarized and offensively focused, while in the process restricting creativity. Some passive Pokemon like Alolan Muk, Fezandipiti, Bronzong, Hippowdon, Sandaconda, Wo-Chien and several more would have some niche in a Gliscless Meta, but with Gliscor in the tier, they are almost unviable. Sure, each of them have more problems in the Tier than Gliscor, but the other problems they have can be worn down over the course of a match, Gliscor can only be killed with direct damage. Therefore, any Pokemon that can,t kill Gliscor or provide significant utility in spite of it (hazard, weather, hard countering some big threat), becomes fully unviable vs a team with Gliscor.
 
MC Squared said:
So who's next on the chopping block?
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Why do we need a chopping block and why so soon? Let's just enjoy the good news and keep enjoying the meta. I think there are directions that could be taken that would improve the meta more , like remove Tera blast and free Volc, or remove stored power and free many mons across many tiers, but we are in a pretty fun and balanced spot now. Certainly nothing should be done without first a SURVEY!
 
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