Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Nice. I think Gliscor is one of the few borderline mons I really cared about keeping. Pretty much every ban recently I felt has improved the meta, from Volc, to Gouging Fire, to even Kyurem briefly. (Even though that wound up being a mistake.) The last time Gliscor was banned, that meta wasn't great.

Sure, there are different circumstances now. I'll be the first one to say that Zap/King/Lu arguments are overblown at best. At the same time, I do believe Gliscor is really important as a glue mon in the builder. It's also one of the best mons into hazards without boots, which is just really valuable. A lot has been said already, so I'll say less. I just feel it is a lot more positive than negative for the metagame.
 
ianlazerbeem said:
Why do we need a chopping block and why so soon? Let's just enjoy the good news and keep enjoying the meta. I think there are directions that could be taken that would improve the meta more , like remove Tera blast and free Volc, or remove stored power and free many mons across many tiers, but we are in a pretty fun and balanced spot now. Certainly nothing should be done without first a SURVEY!
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Agree there’s nothing to do but play with the metagame you’re given. But balanced is very generous unless you mean Webs, Veil and Dark Spam are balanced
 
Just logged into the game and the first thing I see is a Tera Blast Water / Dual Wingbeat max speed SD variant. I had to get lucky twice in order to win, getting a Razor Shell defense drop after failing to do so twice and then getting off a critical Dragon Dart. Really hoping that GlisCUCK gets suspected again a year or two down the line.
 
CooolTrainer said:
Agree there’s nothing to do but play with the metagame you’re given. But balanced is very generous unless you mean Webs, Veil and Dark Spam are balanced
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Aurora Veil HO is extremely mediocre right now. Farmed by Cinderace, farmed by stall and bulky styles, overall a very poor style.

Webs is a matchup fish. It's not great. Good style, but not meta by any means.

SV OU is a balanced metagame. Every playstyle barring semistall has mainstream teams that you see decently often, and saying that the meta is all Webs + Veil + Darkspam is just flat put lying.
 
ianlazerbeem said:
Why do we need a chopping block and why so soon? Let's just enjoy the good news and keep enjoying the meta. I think there are directions that could be taken that would improve the meta more , like remove Tera blast and free Volc, or remove stored power and free many mons across many tiers, but we are in a pretty fun and balanced spot now. Certainly nothing should be done without first a SURVEY!
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Agree there’s nothing to do but play with the metagame you’re given. But balanced is very generous unless you mean Webs, Veil and Dark Spam balanced
 
Okay, the Survey part is interesting, regardless of whether Gliscor's result was pleasant or not.
But I hope the Enjoyable and Competitive parts have more complex questions than simply arranging a numerical value on a scale. Especially considering that next month marks one year since the Indigo Disk DLC. It would be good material for a metagame review.
 
ant4456 said:
and it's because of people like you who don't actually have an interest in a good, balanced metagame
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ianlazerbeem said:
Thats a UP buddy, all you do is complain, your posts on this forum are always very negative and overdramatic, play a different tier if you hate it so much
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It's because of hostility like this that we have a lack of civility in suspect threads up to this point - your view of this tier and a "good, balanced metagame" are not objective, despite how much you try to assert they are, and telling someone to "play a different tier" simply tries to create an echo chamber for your opinions. We should do better.
 
RainebowValiant said:
Aurora Veil HO is extremely mediocre right now. Farmed by Cinderace, farmed by stall and bulky styles, overall a very poor style.

Webs is a matchup fish. It's not great. Good style, but not meta by any means.

SV OU is a balanced metagame. Every playstyle barring semistall has mainstream teams that you see decently often, and saying that the meta is all Webs + Veil + Darkspam is just flat put lying.
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Chill out, I’m being facetious. I think hyper offense has a distinct advantage (see Finch’s post about veil and webs picking up usage again) in the meta but yea other structure are viable but with a higher skill floor. The meta is just less forgiving to those styles because of threat saturation.
 
Lowkey, I was going to make a post talking about why I think the Gliscor suspect's result is favourable and how it's best for the meta, but I can't be bothered.

The lack of love and faith so many people in this discussion thread have for SV OU is disheartening. People need to stop hating on everything about the current meta just because it's the current meta. That's a recurring trend that's been going on for years now, because people refuse to see the good and fun in a game that they apparently love. All there is in this thread is hatred and pessimism towards this meta, often backed up by incoherent arguments and misinformation that seems to be entirely written for the purpose of shitting on the tier.

SV OU is a fine metagame. Just because it's the current metagame doesn't make it inherently bad or worse than other metagames, and the flaws in the tier are being massively overblown in this discussion thread for the sake of hating.

Before you post your 6000th one paragraph post on why OU sucks and how it's the worst metagame in existence, think. Are your claims justified? Is the meta actually all HO or are you biased from information you see online? Is the meta actually bad or is it just not your cup of tea? Is the meta bad? It's not. Stop lying about this shit.

I'm taking a long fucking break from Smogon. Find me on Discord.
 
To echo RainebowValiant 's sentiment about SV OU, I've been playing Gen 3 OU and Gen 4 OU these past days for a change and the game is so much more enjoyable and even balanced I would say in SV OU. But especially more varied.
 
AerionT said:
Is it?
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My argument is that the hatred for SV OU is overblown because it's the current meta and a lot of this discussion thread is just people hating to hate. I think SV OU is one of the best OU metas because of how dynamic and exciting it is, allowing you to always be in the game even when you're seemingly far behind.
 
RainebowValiant said:
My argument is that the hatred for SV OU is overblown because it's the current meta and a lot of this discussion thread is just people hating to hate. I think SV OU is one of the best OU metas because of how dynamic and exciting it is, allowing you to always be in the game even when you're seemingly far behind.
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Yes, I said that SV OU is enjoyable, varied and balanced, and I don't think past gens like gen 3 or 4 are better in that regard, I think we are in agreement
 
AerionT said:
Yes, I said that SV OU is enjoyable, varied and balanced, and I don't think past gens like gen 3 or 4 are better in that regard, I think we are in agreement
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Oh my bad your wording was a little confusing for me. I understand now.

Anyways, yeah, I'll probably be inactive here. See me on OUcord or stallcord. Bye.
 
RainebowValiant said:
Lowkey, I was going to make a post talking about why I think the Gliscor suspect's result is favourable and how it's best for the meta, but I can't be bothered.

The lack of love and faith so many people in this discussion thread have for SV OU is disheartening. People need to stop hating on everything about the current meta just because it's the current meta. That's a recurring trend that's been going on for years now, because people refuse to see the good and fun in a game that they apparently love. All there is in this thread is hatred and pessimism towards this meta, often backed up by incoherent arguments and misinformation that seems to be entirely written for the purpose of shitting on the tier.

SV OU is a fine metagame. Just because it's the current metagame doesn't make it inherently bad or worse than other metagames, and the flaws in the tier are being massively overblown in this discussion thread for the sake of hating.

Before you post your 6000th one paragraph post on why OU sucks and how it's the worst metagame in existence, think. Are your claims justified? Is the meta actually all HO or are you biased from information you see online? Is the meta actually bad or is it just not your cup of tea? Is the meta bad? It's not. Stop lying about this shit.

I'm taking a long fucking break from Smogon. Find me on Discord.
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You’re the one who needs to question your view point. It sounds like you’re very desperate to have other people enjoy this meta because it IS your cup of tea. It’s OK for people to disagree with you or dislike the meta. I think you’re kidding yourself if you think the only reason people are unhappy with this gen is because it’s current. As I said before, you have to play with the meta you’re given, and I, and others accept that. But you just call anyone who disagrees with you a liar. Look inward and take your own advice.
 
CooolTrainer said:
You’re the one who needs to question your view point. It sounds like you’re very desperate to have other people enjoy this meta because it IS your cup of tea. It’s OK for people to disagree with you or dislike the meta. I think you’re kidding yourself if you think the only reason people are unhappy with this gen is because it’s current. As I said before, you have to play with the meta you’re given, and I, and others accept that. But you just call anyone who disagrees with you a liar. Look inward and take your own advice.
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I don't call anyone who disagrees with me a liar. There ARE valid criticisms of SV OU, such as the endgame Tera BS that can sometimes happen and Kingambit 50/50s and stuff. What I hate is the amount of people who ARE hating just to hate the new generation and a meta that personally dislike. I feel like you're miscontruing my argument because I'm not saying that all SV OU hate is fake. I'm saying that there's a lot of invalid hate arguments that aren't there for most other gens.
 
UltraSword said:
Me too bruh but I guess womp womp for us lol. In hindsight I don't know why I thought it wouldn't be very close though considering the intense hatred many people have for gliscor on the ban side.
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Gonna be completely honest with you; I feel like some people voted ban just for the sake of change. They don't actually think Gliscor's the issue, but hey. We've been stuck in largely the same meta for months, so let's vote for something to change, even if I don't inherently agree with it.

i just assumed it was a case of loud voices being the main ones you hear. I was genuinely expecting this to be a hell of a lot more one-sided than it ended up. Not like it changes much now, though.
 
Cyber-DJ said:
Gonna be completely honest with you; I feel like some people voted ban just for the sake of change. They don't actually think Gliscor's the issue, but hey. We've been stuck in largely the same meta for months, so let's vote for something to change, even if I don't inherently agree with it.
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I already knew this but that is very true. If people want change this bad maybe in the new year the council should test some ubers. I know it isn't the best idea but clearly if gliscor and kyurem (who many people hated with a passion and caused one of the biggest scandals in competitive pokemon history) didn't get banned then I don't think anything else is going to be suspected/banned for months or possibly years to come. Testing ubers is the only other way for change to happen.
 
UltraSword said:
I already knew this but that is very true. If people want change this bad maybe in the new year the council should test some ubers. I know it isn't the best idea but clearly if gliscor and kyurem (who many people hated with a passion and caused one of the biggest scandals in competitive pokemon history) didn't get banned then I don't think anything else is going to be suspected/banned for months or possibly years to come. Testing ubers is the only other way for change to happen.
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I don't want to talk about retesting Ubers, for several reasons.

The discussion thread essentialy becomes a brainrot center of "No, this Uber is valid to test, not that one". And no one's gonna agree on what to do, so more bickering over a discussion that, at best, received minor lip service on the council's end. Which also leads to another point of "What Ubers are feasible enough to even entertain, let alone drop back into the tier?" My hot take is that in OU's current state, none of the Ubers can come back, but that's either a different discussion entirely, or a tangent that this specific comment won't delve into. If you actually want to see my PoV for whatever reason, you're asking in DMs, cuz I really don't want this to be yet another Palafin circlejerk again.

Right now, I really don't think there's even much to discuss in the first place. We just tested Gliscor so they're out. No chance in Hell the council's gonna entertain a third Kyurem suspect, especially so soon after this whole mess, so that's out too. Maybe get the ball rolling on more in depth Tera Blast discussion, but idk. I feel like there genuinely isn't much to discuss these days as far as the next target on the chopping block that will be done, especially after the Gliscor suspect test just ended. I'd go as far to say that we shouldn't expect general tiering discussion as a whole until early November, likely more than that, which i'm not complaining about
 

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