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Those of you who know me well as a player, will know how much I love this Pokemon (and Celebi ). I've built countless Tyranitar teams this generation and I will never fucking stop. I have not posted many of my teams in this thread before but I thought that with the recent tier changes now would be as good as any to share my wisdom. On a serious note, this team...
Those of you who know me well as a player, will know how much I love this Pokemon (and Celebi ). I've built countless Tyranitar teams this generation and I will never fucking stop. I have not posted many of my teams in this thread before but I thought that with the recent tier changes now would be as good as any to share my wisdom. On a serious note, this team...
Because neither Pokémon is broken. Being strong Pokemon that can fit on a variety of teams doesn’t a Pokemon break.
Of the two, you can make a stronger case for Dragapult being centralizing but even then it has ways of being accounted for in the team builder. Unlike Darkrai, it can’t cheese its way past things with RNG.
Well gentlemen, like said, third time is the charm! Tera is FINALLY banned! Therefore making the metagame more playable and enjoyable for me and others. As consequense, some Pokemon got freed from the banlist and bought bad to NDOU! I wanted to give some of my opinios about these Pokemon!
I didn't play Regielki when both it and Terastalization were legal, bui I can bet all my money that it was unbearable for the tier! The thing already hits hard with STAb electric move due to Transistor or Magnet/Life Ord, add Regieleki a chance to hit ground types for super effective damage AND with STAB (Ice Tera Blast), you got yourself a maniacal, fast pokemon, almost impossible to outspeed! But when you take this advantage from Regieleki, well........ it sucks! HOWEVER it's not to say Ragieleki is totally useless, altough its inability to hot ground types. Here are some sets it could have, making itself useful for the team.
So yeah, Regieleki seems to be the biggest loser after the ban of Teratslization! It can be a useful niche, but no good Pòkemon to use, let alone a great one. It seems Regieleki is stuck to be a major flawed Pòkemon! May Arceus make it have Hidden Power Ice someday....
The King is back, everyone, and it's here to STAY!!! Though it can't escape its defensive weaknesses nor boost its stellar offensive capabilities, its still a great Pòkemon and a great checks for a lot of other Pòkemon defensively and offensively with Knock Off, Sucker Punch and Pursuit, in cas they want to swithch out. Those Pòkemon are for example Dragapult (which I'll discuss about it later), Iron Crown and G-Slowking. Speaking of check, its checked/can't beat (bulky) Fighting types Pòkemon like Lopunny-Mega, Great Tusk, Zamazenta (which I'll also discuss about it later), Urshifu-S and Iron Hands (rarely seen, but still a check nevertheless). After the ban of Terastalization, Kingambit is still a great pokemon, but can't escape its shortcomings anymore, making it balanced.
With Tera banned, I think this thing is not a problem at all. Just like Ursaluna, it abused Terastalization to make its attacks very difficult to switch into. Sure, its sets can be tedious/annoying to play around sometimes, but it's not broken at all. If we are talking in viability, I think this Pokemon has great potential: great attack, great natural bulk and can use many sets. You can use Melmetal as a bulky wallbreaker, Toxic + Protect Pòkemon with the recovery from Leftovers or a devastating attacker in Trick Room with Choice Band. I have high expectations for this pal. Can't wait to use it someday.
Yeah, I'm NOT a big fan of this unban and I'm sure I'm not the only one here. If you played with Dragapult before its ban, you know the deadly set: Dragon Dance and Ghostium Z. This set is crazy and even busted considering Dragapult's great Attakck with 120 and its incredible Speed with 142. Not to mention that it has Clear Body to avoid stats drops AND a Z-Cristal that can allow it to have a one time, strong move with 190 BP. Other than this set it uses either Choice Specs/(Choice Band) or Heavy-Duty Boots Set with Wisp/T-Wave, Hex and Dragon Darts/Draco Meteor. While it wasn't Tea's biggest abuser, it used it for defensive purposes or even as an offensive surprising factor. With the existance of Kingambit and Pursuit, I think it's balanced... for now. We'll se whaat the future holds for this ghostly dragon.
Finally, my boy is free! FREE! OH YES!
Seriously though, after the Tera-ban, it has become far more manageable than it was before the ban. It's because its checks or Pòkemon that can cripple/manage it are back and legal like Dragapult (for now) and Gholdengo. Given Tera is no longer allowed, it can't cange its typing, leaving it vulnerabule to multiple weaknesses (Fairy, Psychic, Flying, Toxic and many more). Its popular set Iron-Press has its matchup problem: it can either be very useful, even a wincon or really useless. As for Heavy-Duty Boots sets, Zamazenta can't use Tera for having a STAB on a coverage move or make Close Combat even more devastating. At the end of the day, it's a balanced and an excellent Pòkemon. Before I'll go the the next Pòkemon, I want to list the counters for its common/"problematic" set, Iron-Press.
Moltres (if it doesn't have Stone Edge, which is uncommon..)
Aegislash (playing games with King's Shield if it even has Crunch)
Ah yes... the unbeatable Pòkemon, the godliest of the all... impossible to beat... is back to NDOU! And..... it sucks as well. I don't see this thing anywhere outside of stall and even then it's quite a fringe option in my opinion. I don't see this thing being that viable.
What on earth were people thinking about making this thing legal when Tera was allowed? "Oh yeah, a Pokemon that can take a first hit easily, setting itself up with decent bulk and having to transform itself into a Pòkemon with the stats of a box art legendary. What can go wrong?" Outside of that, even after its gimmick gone, it has great things coming for it. It can play as a Stealt Rocker or an offensive/defensive Rapid Spinner. Due to tera shell, it always takes the first hit well and can take advantage of hit by attacking back (with Rapid Spin, removing hazards) or setting up Stealth Rock/Toxic or A Set-up Sweep (Cam Mind + Rock Polish). It has decent bulk 110/110 and a good Special Attack with 105 combinated with an awesome signature move Tera Starstorm with 120 BP. I am sure it will have a great viability in the tier!
I still don't get it why this thing was banned in the first place, even after Tera was allowed. Was it annoying? Yes. Was it broken? In my eyes, no. The partial reason it was banned is because it was hard to get rid of hazards when this thing was around. It blocks Defog and Rapid/Mortal Spin. I don't mind bringing this Pòkemon back to the tier, especially after Tera was banned. It is is annoying due to its ability to prevent hazard removal and great typing in Ghost/Steel, but saying it's broke is just wrong. Besides it could be fun, because of its versatility, it can run many sets Choice Scarf/Specs, T-Wave + Hex, Defensive/Offensive Nasty Plot Attacker and much more. Plus it has its counters: Kingambit, Dragapult, special invested Moltres and other Pòkemon. I see this thing being back in S Rank.
Thanks for reading my post! You can agree/disagree with my opinions, it's your choice! However, I think the tier has become better than ever and I hope you enjoy this meta!
I got you covered waffle. You have some great points I want to address as best I can.
First of all, is very threatening to Trick Room which I am glad you pointed out. However, on the flip side, Kingambit is also great ON Trick Room teams since it has the coverage to destroy a ton of Pokemon, including opposing Kingambit with Low Kick. Plus, with Sucker Punch, it's able to threaten things outside Trick Room which is very crucial for the team to succeed if you don't get your twisted dimensions up. Also gonna point out as a great Pokemon under trick room that can deal with Kingambit nicely.
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 183-216 (67.7 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 159-188 (58.8 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And this next calc is admittedly kind of gimmicky but the one below is less so.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 528-624 (154.8 - 182.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 475-559 (117.8 - 138.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Anyway, onto the subject of viable Trick Room setters. is not a gimmick in my opinion, not anymore than trick room in general. When paired with who is epic btw you can get Trick Room up a couple times. Also with some luck, Focus Sash can avoid an Iron Head Flinch and set room and either die to Sucker Punch or Misty Explosion for momentum. is something that is so absurdly bulky that even max power Kingambit barely OHKOs it back. Not ideal since it is obviously a psychic type but worth pointing out.
252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 380-450 (85.5 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
So yes, Trick Room doesn't like Kingambit but if you can wear down the new King of Nat Dex OU then you can definitely make Trick Room work. And keep in mind, Kingambit is also tasked with taking on a lot of attackers which can overwhelm it. And if nothing else, Magnezone on Trick Room can both trap it and still function with min speed and powerful wall breaking hits.
I find it difficult to fit another physical attacker on TR (Ursaluna being mandatory) but was inspired to try the hands man. with a quark drive suite has proven surprisingly effective. Valiant and Hands can threaten gambit pretty well; Hands especially switches in with zero fear. Valiant and koko help you from just dying to big powerful wallbreakers like medicham and urshifu. Might have to try out stakataka, but I dislike having a pile of physical attackers to get intimidate cycled.
Notably, the electriumz hands set im using picks up some ridiculous ohkos opponents absolutely do not expect.
252+ Atk Quark Drive Iron Hands Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult in Electric Terrain: 365-429 (115.1 - 135.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Quark Drive Iron Hands Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Kingambit in Electric Terrain: 490-577 (121.2 - 142.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Quark Drive Iron Hands Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal in Electric Terrain: 423-498 (89.2 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Well gentlemen, like said, third time is the charm! Tera is FINALLY banned! Therefore making the metagame more playable and enjoyable for me and others. As consequense, some Pokemon got freed from the banlist and bought bad to NDOU! I wanted to give some of my opinios about these Pokemon!
View attachment 690406
I didn't play Regielki when both it and Terastalization were legal, bui I can bet all my money that it was unbearable for the tier! The thing already hits hard with STAb electric move due to Transistor or Magnet/Life Ord, add Regieleki a chance to hit ground types for super effective damage AND with STAB (Ice Tera Blast), you got yourself a maniacal, fast pokemon, almost impossible to outspeed! But when you take this advantage from Regieleki, well........ it sucks! HOWEVER it's not to say Ragieleki is totally useless, altough its inability to hot ground types. Here are some sets it could have, making itself useful for the team.
So yeah, Regieleki seems to be the biggest loser after the ban of Teratslization! It can be a useful niche, but no good Pòkemon to use, let alone a great one. It seems Regieleki is stuck to be a major flawed Pòkemon! May Arceus make it have Hidden Power Ice someday....
View attachment 690426
The King is back, everyone, and it's here to STAY!!! Though it can't escape its defensive weaknesses nor boost its stellar offensive capabilities, its still a great Pòkemon and a great checks for a lot of other Pòkemon defensively and offensively with Knock Off, Sucker Punch and Pursuit, in cas they want to swithch out. Those Pòkemon are for example Dragapult (which I'll discuss about it later), Iron Crown and G-Slowking. Speaking of check, its checked/can't beat (bulky) Fighting types Pòkemon like Lopunny-Mega, Great Tusk, Zamazenta (which I'll also discuss about it later), Urshifu-S and Iron Hands (rarely seen, but still a check nevertheless). After the ban of Terastalization, Kingambit is still a great pokemon, but can't escape its shortcomings anymore, making it balanced.
View attachment 690440
With Tera banned, I think this thing is not a problem at all. Just like Ursaluna, it abused Terastalization to make its attacks very difficult to switch into. Sure, its sets can be tedious/annoying to play around sometimes, but it's not broken at all. If we are talking in viability, I think this Pokemon has great potential: great attack, great natural bulk and can use many sets. You can use Melmetal as a bulky wallbreaker, Toxic + Protect Pòkemon with the recovery from Leftovers or a devastating attacker in Trick Room with Choice Band. I have high expectations for this pal. Can't wait to use it someday.
View attachment 690441
Yeah, I'm NOT a big fan of this unban and I'm sure I'm not the only one here. If you played with Dragapult before its ban, you know the deadly set: Dragon Dance and Ghostium Z. This set is crazy and even busted considering Dragapult's great Attakck with 120 and its incredible Speed with 142. Not to mention that it has Clear Body to avoid stats drops AND a Z-Cristal that can allow it to have a one time, strong move with 190 BP. Other than this set it uses either Choice Specs/(Choice Band) or Heavy-Duty Boots Set with Wisp/T-Wave, Hex and Dragon Darts/Draco Meteor. While it wasn't Tea's biggest abuser, it used it for defensive purposes or even as an offensive surprising factor. With the existance of Kingambit and Pursuit, I think it's balanced... for now. We'll se whaat the future holds for this ghostly dragon.
Seriously though, after the Tera-ban, it has become far more manageable than it was before the ban. It's because its checks or Pòkemon that can cripple/manage it are back and legal like Dragapult (for now) and Gholdengo. Given Tera is no longer allowed, it can't cange its typing, leaving it vulnerabule to multiple weaknesses (Fairy, Psychic, Flying, Toxic and many more). Its popular set Iron-Press has its matchup problem: it can either be very useful, even a wincon or really useless. As for Heavy-Duty Boots sets, Zamazenta can't use Tera for having a STAB on a coverage move or make Close Combat even more devastating. At the end of the day, it's a balanced and an excellent Pòkemon. Before I'll go the the next Pòkemon, I want to list the counters for its common/"problematic" set, Iron-Press.
Moltres (if it doesn't have Stone Edge, which is uncommon..)
Aegislash (playing games with King's Shield if it even has Crunch)
View attachment 690451
Ah yes... the unbeatable Pòkemon, the godliest of the all... impossible to beat... is back to NDOU! And..... it sucks as well. I don't see this thing anywhere outside of stall and even then it's quite a fringe option in my opinion. I don't see this thing being that viable.
View attachment 690452
What on earth were people thinking about making this thing legal when Tera was allowed? "Oh yeah, a Pokemon that can take a first hit easily, setting itself up with decent bulk and having to transform itself into a Pòkemon with the stats of a box art legendary. What can go wrong?" Outside of that, even after its gimmick gone, it has great things coming for it. It can play as a Stealt Rocker or an offensive/defensive Rapid Spinner. Due to tera shell, it always takes the first hit well and can take advantage of hit by attacking back (with Rapid Spin, removing hazards) or setting up Stealth Rock/Toxic or A Set-up Sweep (Cam Mind + Rock Polish). It has decent bulk 110/110 and a good Special Attack with 105 combinated with an awesome signature move Tera Starstorm with 120 BP. I am sure it will have a great viability in the tier!
View attachment 690457
I still don't get it why this thing was banned in the first place, even after Tera was allowed. Was it annoying? Yes. Was it broken? In my eyes, no. The partial reason it was banned is because it was hard to get rid of hazards when this thing was around. It blocks Defog and Rapid/Mortal Spin. I don't mind bringing this Pòkemon back to the tier, especially after Tera was banned. It is is annoying due to its ability to prevent hazard removal and great typing in Ghost/Steel, but saying it's broke is just wrong. Besides it could be fun, because of its versatility, it can run many sets Choice Scarf/Specs, T-Wave + Hex, Defensive/Offensive Nasty Plot Attacker and much more. Plus it has its counters: Kingambit, Dragapult, special invested Moltres and other Pòkemon. I see this thing being back in S Rank.
Thanks for reading my post! You can agree/disagree with my opinions, it's your choice! However, I think the tier has become better than ever and I hope you enjoy this meta!
As for certain pokemon, is Magnezone gonna cook down the road? Traps Ferrothorn and Corv (Skarm too but not that common I think), so I feel like there should be some building potential there in the making.
Also, big enjoyer of Mega TTar. Pursuits Ghosts, Rocks support, invallidates Shedinja (You know someone is gonna try and use this. Let's be honest), one of the better Mega Zard-Y checks, looks cool. It's a package deal, really. And, i'm not sure who said this, if anyone did, but i'm very confident that TTar should maybe relegate Rocks to a teammate and use that slot for a coverage move. I can see Ice Beam and Superpower being the two big ones for stuff like either Lando, Gliscor, Tusk on the switch, then Kingambit and Melmetal on the switch respectively. I get the feeling TTar will work best when it can take better advantadge of it's truly impressive movepool.
with a quark drive suite has proven surprisingly effective. Valiant and Hands can threaten gambit pretty well; Hands especially switches in with zero fear. Valiant and koko help you from just dying to big powerful wallbreakers like medicham and urshifu.
I definitely think Iron Hands has a niche as a bulky fighting type that can benefit from E-Terrain who Kingambit wants nothing to do with. Even outside terrain, it has the almost min maxed stats to be very effective as a late game finisher/early wallbreaker. It's probably the worst of the electrics, compared to , and but distinguishes itself as a physical attacker from the rest with perfect coverage. "Mega Hariyama" as I like to call it can 1v1 almost anything when given the right tools. Not gonna be a staple OU mon like the other electrics, probably, but I can't see this thing being unviable.
Because neither Pokémon is broken. Being strong Pokemon that can fit on a variety of teams doesn’t a Pokemon break.
Of the two, you can make a stronger case for Dragapult being centralizing but even then it has ways of being accounted for in the team builder. Unlike Darkrai, it can’t cheese its way past things with RNG.
But Terapagos IS broken. I don't want to be forced to run AV Slowking or AV Iron Crown on every team.
It's also hard because of how versatile it is. My one team has to be able to counter Terapagos with calm mind, another one with specs, and then those weird max-hp max-def bold set that only takes 80% from Mega-Lopunny CC after fake out. I even have two other checks on my team just for this one Mon, but anybody can just overwhelm by playing well.
But Terapagos IS broken. I don't want to be forced to run AV Slowking or AV Iron Crown on every team.
It's also hard because of how versatile it is. My one team has to be able to counter Terapagos with calm mind, another one with specs, and then those weird max-hp max-def bold set that only takes 80% from Mega-Lopunny CC after fake out. I even have two other checks on my team just for this one Mon, but anybody can just overwhelm by playing well.
Set-up
1. Its set-up sets are held back quite severely by 4MSS. CM wants all of CM/Starstorm/Rock Polish/Spin/Ice Beam/Earth Power/Flamethrower. There are always portions of the metagame that you simply cannot bypass, e.g. if EP > Flame, checked by Balloon Ghold, MSciz, Ferrothorn, Corviknight. While yes, this means it can technically beat what it wants to, most good teams naturally fit sufficient counterplay to most of turtle's set permutations. Even if not, its got a bad speed tier and generally needs chip to OHKO most things so sweeps don't really come free. It's also generally locked into Boots unless paired with other hazard removal which is why stuff like Meteor Beam is much harder to run.
Specs
2. Specs is very support reliant and compromises most of Terapagos' amazing utility. You cannot fit Rapid Spin when it is one of the best removers in the tier, and you cannot guarantee Tera Shell when it lets it blanket check almost the entire offensive metagame. These are massive opportunity costs and so you should expect to get something pretty good for it. Not only that, it can still be somewhat prediction reliant into teams with Ghosts or bulky Normal resists. It's a mon that rewards dedicated teambuiliding and good play, nothing more.
Why Terapagos is not broken
In general, Terapagos has some significant flaws that make it very not broken. You absolutely don't need a dedicated hard check such as AV Gking or AV Crown to handle Terapagos. Terapagos would only be broken if it could run maybe 6-7 moves at once. Dragapult alone is enough to incentivise Ice Beam unless you are okay with relying on Kingambit when one of Terapagos's best qualities is the fact that it is a solo Dragapult check. It's got good bulk, but a pretty mid speed tier which actually does hurt e.g. Rock Polish only outspeeds Booster Val if Timid. Its damage output when not spamming Starstorm isn't amazing, even with supereffective coverage. It's also quite susceptible to status, so if you're desperate, use something that can take a hit such as Toxapex that can land a Toxic and then dance around its coverage which has common immunities/resists.
Imo it's best run as utility mon anyway, running Starstorm/Ice Beam/Spin/Earth Power or Flamethrower. It's able to beat most rockers/spinblockers 1v1 depending on coverage and act as a one-time blanket check to almost every offensive Pokemon. These are not broken, but healthy qualities, and it does a lot for teams that otherwise may not be able to cover a ton of metagame threats. Other sets are probably just bad.
A lot of people also just don't know how to play vs this mon I think. I still see people thinking non-AV Kingambit is a check when it takes 60 from unboosted flamethrower. I also see people calcing base form Terapagos when you have to select Terapagos-Terastal. Let's let the metagame develop before calling for a quickban...
If you really hate it, then I suggest you try Mega Tyranitar or Spdef Moltres. It pops Tera Shell with sand, has massive sand boosted spdef, and only loses to Aura Sphere which is impossible to fit anyway. Spdef Moltres can run Mystical Fire and Toxic, which makes it look quite pathetic.
As for certain pokemon, is Magnezone gonna cook down the road? Traps Ferrothorn and Corv (Skarm too but not that common I think), so I feel like there should be some building potential there in the making.
Also, big enjoyer of Mega TTar. Pursuits Ghosts, Rocks support, invallidates Shedinja (You know someone is gonna try and use this. Let's be honest), one of the better Mega Zard-Y checks, looks cool. It's a package deal, really. And, i'm not sure who said this, if anyone did, but i'm very confident that TTar should maybe relegate Rocks to a teammate and use that slot for a coverage move. I can see Ice Beam and Superpower being the two big ones for stuff like either Lando, Gliscor, Tusk on the switch, then Kingambit and Melmetal on the switch respectively. I get the feeling TTar will work best when it can take better advantadge of it's truly impressive movepool.
I also have trust in magnezone. From what i have used it, its the same old mon it always was. I also think ttar is kinda forced to run sp now, which isnt a big deal, since ttar teams usually have at least one other mon who can set up rocks
Despite Shedninja getting some hate from the general playerbase, I have seen it used on quite a few stalls to decent effect. I'd imagine it is a 50/50 for the stall player on whether or not it is useful, since a lot of the Pokemon that it hard walls can get around it with their other sets (i.e. toxic Melm, Fire Punch Mega Medicham, Stone Edge Chomp, etc.) but it does wall a large swath of the metagame and can be annoying for a lot of the Pokemon that don't tech coverage for it. That said, the other drops don't help it as much. Gholdengo's presence means that more mons like Lele will be teching Shadow Ball, etc. Still, for a mon that many players wrote off as being terrible, I have seen it used to much greater success than Regieleki lol.
i haven't checked up on this thread in a while, so i'll bring up some topics of interest that comes with the tera ban:
I. NEW RELEASES
TBE DROPS
one of the lower performers of the unbans, regieleki is unfortunately and obviously pretty bad. it has nothing to hit grounds and falls flat to basic resists like bolt and ferro
it has some utility in rspin and espeed but generally its only delegated to a screens setter or extremely niche voltturner(who needs a shit ton of support) altho one point of discussion is its unique speed tier
with 0 speed, it naturally outpaces dragapult, zama, mlop, and koko
with 28 speed, it outspeeds scarfed hsam and +1 terapagos
with 160 speed, it outspeeds scarfed tapu lele
with 192 speed, it outspeeds scarfed urshifu
with 232 speed, it outspeeds +1 volcarona, and every other base 100 with a boost(yard, manaphy, mmedi, xard, etc)
with 160+ speed, it outspeeds scarfed kartana
with 172+ speed, it outspeeds booster iron moth, and every other base 110 with a boost(ogerpon, latios, etc)
with 248+ speed, it outspeeds booster iron valiant
personally, i would settle for 232 speed, because modest is a significant and often needed boost in power Oculars shared a set recently that i also thought was interesting:
Regieleki @ Normalium Z
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Cage / Thunderbolt
- Hyper Beam
- Filler(twave, rspin, explosion, espeed, etc)
very cheesy set which aims to snipe spdef weak grounds(like the ever popular tusk and lando) with a 200 BP breakneck. doesn't really do that much damage but can be paired with hazard stackers and procures chip on their checks. i havent used it yet but i can see incredible funny potential for a voltturn squad
252+ SpA Regieleki Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 331-390 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Regieleki Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 240-283 (62.8 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
think this would go great with some kind of av hsam voltturn
this stupid bug haunts my nightmares but fortunately it is also really ass
exploitable niche in wonder guard, weak to rocks, drops to sandstorm, status, etc. the meta isn't particularly friendly into it either, with our recent releases in kgb, ghold, and pult, alongside mtar, weav, and aforementioned kgb pursuit trapping it
it can be used on stalls to wall raging bolt and similar sweepers, but generally its also only going to be a bad shitmon
Shedinja @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
this is probably the only viable set i can see shed ever running, with protect being able to scout uncommon coverage moves like knock off from great tusk, hp fire from kyurem, tox from melm
toxic and willo hit as many switch ins as possible with status, such as burning kgb and mtar, tox moltres and every other fire type bar tran. hex for damage, and max+ invest for that Runo shared a post about this earlier, i'm not gonna link it but they probably know more than i do as a top stall connoisseur
this is the last of the obvious unbans(eleki shed melm as mentioned in other posts), and the only one who's actually viable. melm has great bulk, great attack, a great typing and great utility, being one of the most anticipated and least controversial release(besides the shitmons) while being naturally good into the new meta and pairing incredibly well with staples like alo
dib hits incredibly hard, while finding a ton of resists and tanks(tres, mola, def tusk) with only 8 pp and contact
it has an ample amt of coverage options to hit said resists, in thunder punch for alo, slowbro, and moltres, ice punch for gliscor, landorus, and zapdos, eq for heatran and miscellaneous steels, and superpower for steels as said, ferrothorn, and kgb
with the remaining slots, it can either tech a utility move and extra coverage or opt for toxic+protect, or it can ditch the utility entirely and use an assault vest or even a choice band
Melmetal @ Leftovers / Punching Glove
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 164 SpD / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Thunder Punch / Earthquake / Superpower
- Earthquake / Protect / Toxic
- Thunder Wave / Toxic
The first spread is from SSND, which conveniently outspeeds ting lu. you can consider punching glove to avoid contact punishment from the likes of moltres and lando
thunder wave is the utility of choice, which cripples switch ins like slowbro, alo, and moltres. three attacks maximize damage output while still using its massive bulk to cripple and check metagame staples like tapu lele and dd dragapult.
toxtect is also an option which wants to chip down checks like alo and moltres(which runs dib/eq/toxtect)
Melmetal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 244 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch / Superpower
This spread is also from last generation, but again you could run 92 spe and outpace ting lu. this set improves its mediocre special bulk and pairs it with its above average hp, checking the likes of slowking galar and kyurem. it uses all of its coverage to hit nearly the entire metagame(lol shed walls) ice punch hits gliscor, but i would use superpower for ferrothorn and kgb since dib drops lando and glisc after some switches anyway
Melmetal @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
i don't think this was a set in SSND but choice band melm hits really hard. it's a new trick room toy(altho not really doing as good as mmaw or ursaluna at all) but can also be used with some pivots. pretty bad set which loses a lot of its utility but it is incredibly funny and can pull off some crazy calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Great Tusk: 258-306 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 216-254 (56.5 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
THE BIG THREE
pult is arguably the most broken of the big three, being super fast, being able to run mixed sets, setup, having utility, and being a general huge pain in the ass. Ban it pls and ty
Dragapult @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
this set is just taken from SVOU, and is just as viable here. hdb+infiltrator acts as one of the most consistent checks to idbp/zama, being able to revenge and pivot into mlop and threaten with burn, also crippling mtar, melm, shifu, kingambit, spreading status and utilizes that with hex to deal massive damage(which also has increased bp on gliscor and deals super effective damage to ghold). ddarts is its dragon stab of choice, letting pult run mixed, and does more damage to things pult wants to damage like volcarona and raging bolt(as apposed to draco)
Dragapult @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Phantom Force
- Substitute / Will-O-Wisp
this is the problematic one. pult's access to dd and a solid dragon stab allows it to effectively use a sweeping set that is generally very difficult to check. pult's access to an already supreme speed tier allows to it to outpace literally the entire metagame after a boost, and renders rkilling attempts from mmedi and dragonite obsolete with it's useful ghost typing. it can bypass sucker punch with substitute, or opt for willo to cripple said checks, and additionally clear body ignores intim and webs. only healthy melmetal, mtar, and kingambit can check this set sufficiently
Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
choice specs isn't as good as the other two sets, but it should still be noted. pult has very good offensive stabs in ghost and dragon that let it hit the majority of the metagame, but this is offset by pult's mediocre 100 spa. flamethrower nails steels like kgb and ferro, and uturn lets it pivot out of switch ins like mtar, tran, and kgb. i tried a specs hex set, and that was pretty cool. bursting past melm and tran once statused was neat
i honestly think pult should be banned. i dont like it, it's unhealthy to me, and it's nearly impossible to check its sets without leaving something crippled or to trade non-favoribly. the checks to wisphex sets beat the checks to dd and likewise. it's really frustrating to switch in the right thing without being used as setup fodder or burnt and pivoted off of. some team structures have this somewhat apparent, but a well built BO/voltturn like team can mask a dd pult as a pivoting set, and it doesn't particularly offset how powerful dd is anyway. if i run melm for dd, i'll get burnt and die to hex later, but if i run heatran for wisphex, i'll get subbed on, used as setup fodder, and get blown up by boosted z. and this really makes either kingambit or mtar as checks to both sets(and both gets crippled anyway). this doesn't even take into consideration pult's good typing and incredibly high speed tier. i don't see how pult isn't unhealthly for the metagame, and i'll opt to ban it in the event of a suspect
to me, ghold hasn't been an issue at all, and it's a really nice tool in the teambuilder and is pretty balanced. checking ival and lele while switching into gliscor to block defog can be helpful, and air balloon can really come in clutch sometimes(but colbur can be experimented with). currently just enjoying the bulky plot set but twave fblast should be looked into imo. its able to spinblock and defog block pretty well, but loses to all the popular hazard control options, and the ones that cannot can adapt to it(knock off tusk, heat wave zapdos/tornt, etc), ultimately making ghold a very healthy prescence
Gholdengo @ Air Balloon / Colbur Berry / Steelium Z
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain / Focus Blast
- Recover / Focus Blast
i think every ghold set so far has been stolen from SVOU. offensive nasty plot isn't as good as defensive to me, but it has potential to be very good. max spa nasty plot hits really fucking hard and i dont think people realize that gholdengo gets a 120 bp stab move with 133 spa...
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 345-406 (97.4 - 114.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
this shit pops max spdef glisc after rocks which is just crazy, and whats even more interesting is that offensive dengo actually has a lot of options in its toolbelt. it can run colbur berry + focus blast to tank kgb's sucker punch and threaten it back with a super effective move, while also effectively sniping ting lu and heatran for huge damage. steelium z is also just a nuke into everything while weakening knock which is a really sick set
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Corkscrew Crash (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 360-425 (105.5 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Corkscrew Crash (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 394-465 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
you could run 3a fight z too which is super cool asw
Gholdengo @ Air Balloon
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
- Nasty Plot / Hex
- Shadow Ball / Thunder Wave
- Recover
- Make It Rain / Focus Blast
defensive dengo patches up so many holes in a team, it gives you a sturdy reliable steel with a wincon which can be a lifesaver. air balloon setups on ting lu w/o whirlwind and gliscor w/o uturn/knock, while also being able to more effectively spinblock tusk in a pinch. the speed evs conveniently outpaces 0 speed lando and jolly kingambit. the defense invest allows gholdengo to pull some crazy calcs asw
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 312-368 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this dude just face tanks mmaw boosted knock which is just crazy to me, defensive plot is just really annoying to get off the field especially when you have to sometimes trade 1 for 1 to pop its balloon. it doesn't have to run balloon either, it can run colbur or lefties or even rocky helm and it can fit focus blast or dazzling over mir if you can afford it for a better mu vs ting lu/kgb/rbolt(note that sball fblast is walled by kommo)
twave hex doesn't have the breaking power that nplot does but it is ridiculously annoying to deal with if you dont have a ting lu. spreads status on everything that wants to pivot on it usually in the benefit of another teammate and is a pain to force out of the field. hex has boosted damage on members with status, including gliscor, so it has a usually pretty high damage output to offset no setup. unboosted mir isnt really worth it imo so i would be running fblast on this set(you chip ting lu for more too)
Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Trick
- Focus Blast
scarf is also kinda cool ig but its the most mid of all three sets, you give up your fantastical typing, bulk, and utility for a speed control option which isnt TOO bad of a tradeoff since ghold excels at being a scarfer, but i try to avoid having to use this while teambuilding because you drop so many traits you would otherwise want to keep. it snipes pult, lop, and hsam... fun
honestly kgb hasnt been an issue to me at all either, and it's arguably the least broken out of the big three. its immense bulk and raw power is offset by having to choose between pursuit and sd sets, while of course being hindered by the abundance of fighting types in the tier. kgb is still great but i dont actually use it on some of the teams ive been making even though sometimes it feels necessary to check ghold/dd pult.
Kingambit @ Leftovers / Black Glasses
Ability: Supreme Overlord
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off / Low Kick
- Iron Head / Pursuit
pretty bog standard sd set here, self explanatory, sd makes kgb strong, sucker for speed, knock hits tusk and zama and removes their lefties/hdb which can be very helpful, jolly+low kick snipes melm, ting lu, and opposing kgb, and iron head hits fairies and tusk a little harder. this can be a very scary set if you dont manage your checks but generally its not that broken. ive seen people running sd 3a dark which is a little iffy to me but you get to pursuit trap things which is a huge plus
Kingambit @ Assault Vest / Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch / Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Iron Head / Stealth Rock / Toxic
av kgb soft checks a lot of the meta and can be a great glue for offensive teams. it's able to pursuit trap the ghosts and psychics in the tier effectively while still hitting really hard with defiant knock and sucker. speed evs outpace clef but tbh it isnt really needed
i think that defensive kgb sets can still be experimented with, since in nd it gets a lot of different utility moves such as sr or toxic which can significantly chip down checks like tusk
OTHERS
i think terap has found a solid spot in ndou with a good amount of viability. it's effectively a tank with buffed multiscale and great bulk, but can also be quite scary as it's a coverage demon with a strong stab that can be paired with calm mind and speed boosting capabilities.
Terapagos-Terastal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tera Shell
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rapid Spin / Rock Polish
- Tera Starstorm
- Earth Power / Flamethrower
as expected of a new mon drop it currently has a ton of sets, but i've been seeing mainly this, calm mind+spin and coverage options. solid wincon for offensive squads who want an emergency check to things like sd val. it can run modest, or rock polish if it doesn't need hazard control, and i can see terap being an HO mainstay as a pseudo dragonite of sorts. really good mon atm
Terapagos-Terastal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tera Shell
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 15 Atk
- Stealth Rock / Roar / Rapid Spin
- Toxic / Roar / Rapid Spin
- Tera Starstorm
- Flamethrower
terap can also utilize its bulk for a more defensive role. it has access to roar, sr, spin, and toxic, which can be great anti-setup options, and its speed can be adjusted to outpace max speed raging bolt(which is what i have here), max modest spa so terap isnt passive, and flamethrower so that it can more effectively rko msciz and gholdengo, although ep or dgleam can be preferred to hit kgb, mtar and the dragons respectively. terap can come in handy as a one time check to scary threats such as volcarona or valiant, and its really useful as a rocker and to spread status on stuff like hex offensive status spams.
zama had a pretty major glowdown from the last time it was in nd, so therefore it was unbanned and it's pretty mid tbh. one time +1 def comes in handy but it's only one turn and zama can be forced out pretty often due to the new releases. acting as a kgb check is pretty neat as well but unless you're hdb you dont want to lose your item. idbp is cheese atp and it just falls flat to many different things depending on its coverage. not being able to tera means you cant cheese past zapdos and gking like before, and the new ghosts in wisp pult and dengo just render it useless without crunch. cb is also pretty ass for the same reason. hdb is its best set atm and it can be scary because it has good coverage but that also introduces major 4mss and it has to pick its checks
Zamazenta @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Band
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam
- Stone Edge
- Crunch / Ice Fang / Wild Charge
this is its best and most popular set, which is just standard boots 4a. it switches into kgb very well, while being a pretty good coverage bot which has the potential to hit the majority of the metagame. hslam hits the fairies, se hits the birds, and the last slot is basically comparing coverage and you get different checks based on what you run. i find crunch to be most effective rn
cb is bad dont run it
Zamazenta @ Leftovers
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Substitute
- Crunch / Stone Edge / Heavy Slam
this set got zama banned back in tera meta, but now its really bad. tera steel+id was able to cheese through a majority of the metagame, being able to find setup opportunities vs gking, zapdos clicking cane, and choice locked ival and lele. really annoying set but now it finds plentiful checks which render it useless. no tera means it loses to a lot more, such as moltres and the ghosts we released, with infiltrator pult being able to consistently force it out with wisp or strong dracos. ghold also just shits on it unless its crunch, and if you are crunch, you lose to zapdos and the birds. hslam does what hslam did but its the worst out of the three options tbh. i like stone edge bc it snipes moltres and oftentimes you arent beating the ghosts anyway
theres some niche set in z sets with work up that can effectively bait in fat waters or the birds, but theyre also generally pretty bad and niche so i wont include the full set
II. GOT BETTER+COULD BE GOOD
there are varying levels of increased viability which i will cover individually
moltres has seen increased usage since the start of the tera ban because it can offer a ton of role compression and the meta being just right for it
Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Hurricane / Scorching Sands / Defog / Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- U-turn / Defog / Will-O-Wisp
checks lop and threatens to burn zama without stone edge. attempts burning landorus and can switch into gholdengo and defog, while also checking melmetal and volc, walling tusk and having great stab into kgb and sciz, while also conveniently resisting moonblast from ival. currently just great into the meta and is probably a top defogger atm imo
alo is just great rn as well, the meta adapted pretty kindly to it and it's one of the best supporting partners for many metagames staples
Alomomola @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect
wishpassing has never been a better trait for alo right now, as reintroducing beasts like kgb and melm make alo one of the best partners for them, while also being able to heal up heatran or ting lu which are all also very good. being a fat water also allows you to switch into 4a zama, shifu, and melm effectively, and inviting your breaking partners such as luna vs weak mons like gliscor.
even assault vest can be considered lol, removing its wishpassing is pretty bad for it but mirror coat can act as a pretty good check to dengo and pult, pivoting off of it and threatening KOs. it also can snipe a lot of the meta in lele, koko, and special pult, which is really funny
tusk has been becoming better and better alongside the meta progressively getting more friendly into it. offensive and defensive sets are both good but offensive sets have been the same as ever besides maybe tacking on sr more than cc oftentimes. bu sets can be experiment with as well and i want to experiment w groundium + stone edge
Great Tusk @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Spinner
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
defensive tusk is just so good atm. bpress is usually just a free slot so i really enjoy knock off to snipe ghold, zap, and moltres, while removing items off of lando and alo. super consistent check to zama and kgb, and rocky helm is just generally really useful at ensuring passive chip
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Encore / Ice Punch / Spirit Break
i want to talk about how stupid good this is. sd and fight/dark coverage is just perfect into the meta rn and encore comes in clutch very often when you're dealing with setup sweepers like volcarona. +2 knock off bonks ghold while also removing hdb off of the birds. cc hits like a truck, ice punch nails lando and sbreak can hit harder into the dragons and zama unboosted. best ival set atm and the competition is not close.
encore mixed sets are cool asw but i think its kinda mid, i would run life orb for that at least. specs/cm is worse imo, not good into the meta
i think after the drop of so many steels everyone just kinda forgot about this dude and its best check in ferro and now its really good
Raging Bolt @ Dragonium Z / Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 76 HP / 48 Def / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Thunderclap
- Thunderbolt / Weather Ball
- Calm Mind
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
its honestly really impressive how much better this guy got. its bulk alongside non knock-able/no item means it can oftentimes 1v1 kgb easily, having its own prio to attack before sucker punch, alongside checking shifu and ghold as it always has and being generally more scary as the popularity of grounds on teams being tusk
drag z sets generally want more bulk, and are good rn as they have less knock dmg and can nuke stuff like gliscor. does the same thing as it did before essentially but no one runs ferro or treads anymore. booster sets have insane damage output w modest max speed and dpulse. volt switch is kinda good ig but cm overshines that p much all the time. weather ball on sun nukes steels and immediately threatens melm(which rbolt can switch into dib)
yard is also pretty insane rn for similar reasoning
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Solar Beam
- Scorching Sands
- Roost
charizard got so much better. extremely good since we just dropped three steels at once, and whilst everyone experiments with them, they often forget yard and it destroys whatever lazy alo core they have. its a threat you have to account for in the builder, and with dnite's popularity shrinking and heatran no longer having tera grass, its becoming way harder to check, also partnering really well with the meta in general with tusk, rbolt, and pursuit kgb. really good mon rn and could be a contender for best mega
i think tapu lele can be experiment with rn and it has the potential to be very good
Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
rn choiced sets are kinda ass so id like to introduce cm. honestly seems really good and has the potential to threaten the steels pretty well. focus blast nails kgb and mtar who assume they can pursuit trap, and shattered psyche under terrain boosted nukes a lot of stuff, does a shit ton of dmg to ghold as well. with icrown losing a shit ton of viability i think cm lele just got a lot better
+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo in Psychic Terrain: 301-355 (79.6 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Shell Terapagos-Terastal in Psychic Terrain: 257-303 (77.6 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
i think someone mentioned this at some point but mgyara has gotten a little better since it can find setup opportunity. the introduction of ghosts like gholdengo, kgb and the rise in hsam has made mgyara more potent as of late, and usual checks like ferrothorn aren't really used as often.
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Power Whip
- Earthquake
i think something like this could be funny. eq nails kgb and dengo while doing huge dmg to rbolt, pwhip snipes the waters and offers pon coverage and the rest is standard. u can put crunch somewhere but you dont need it imo
Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Ruination
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
my goat ting lu back at it again. insanely good role compression, offers a bulky dark and ground type with hazards and the ability to check a lot of the threats rn. it can check specs and dd pult, check ghold, threaten kgb and melm, and do everything it already does. great mon rn and pairs well with alo
III. GOT WORSE+COULD BE WORSE
with the introduction of ghold, kgb, melm, and pult, it’s becoming increasingly hard for iron crown to perform as good as it did pre tera ban. it lost one of its most important tools in tera, being able to shrug off damage from previously super effective knock offs and earthquakes. currently, crown finds a hard time setting up on anything with the rise in popularity of hard hitters like hsam and new defensive contenders in moltres. the meta is not friendly into it now at all and it has major competition for the steel of a team.
this should come as a no brainer, but tera ground was an essential portion of iron moth’s success. being able to deal massive damage to gking and pex was one of the reasons why it was so potent, but now it lacks the coverage to do so much significant damage. it hard loses to heatran, can get paralyzed from gking and retains its crippling weakness to ground.
however, i don’t think this is the end of the road for iron moth, the release of new steels has made an offensive fire typing pretty valuable. pivot iron moth sets and dazzling gleam substitute probably work well
same situation as imoth. kyurem’s dd set is no longer a threat at all bc it lacks tblast ground to beat its checks in steels, but subroost and mixed dd sets are still usable. however, the meta isn’t as friendly into it as moth
the new introductions in kgb and ghold had pretty much made this guy obsolete. the reintroduction of the steels can pretty much stonewall corv’s usual brave bird pivot set, while gholdengo is able to consistently come in again and again and deny defog. the raging bolt semisun teams were seeing as of late also abuse corviknight to a large extent. no tera removes another option in its toolkit as well, unable to tera dragon to stop waterpon or volcarona from sweeping. generally the ban went very bad for the big steel bird
this should come as pretty obvious. one of garg’s most important tools was terastal, being able to avoid its bad rock typing to utilize salt cure fully. it can’t tera fairy to avoid mlop and mmedi cc, or dragon to wall pon, or water to avoid its shifu weakness. furthermore, the new steels can threaten it super effectively and tusk just owns it so it’s not good into the meta regardless. it’s not even closely as good as it once was
same reason as above. tera was the one thing preventing dirge from being shit and now that it’s gone.. dirge is shit lmao no use using that on any team ever
what do you think of the new meta? what else do you think gained potential, and what would you like to see going forward?
with the introduction of ghold, kgb, melm, and pult, it’s becoming increasingly hard for iron crown to perform as good as it did pre tera ban. it lost one of its most important tools in tera, being able to shrug off damage from previously super effective knock offs and earthquakes. currently, crown finds a hard time setting up on anything with the rise in popularity of hard hitters like hsam and new defensive contenders in moltres. the meta is not friendly into it now at all and it has major competition for the steel of a team.
this should come as a no brainer, but tera ground was an essential portion of iron moth’s success. being able to deal massive damage to gking and pex was one of the reasons why it was so potent, but now it lacks the coverage to do so much significant damage. it hard loses to heatran, can get paralyzed from gking and retains its crippling weakness to ground.
however, i don’t think this is the end of the road for iron moth, the release of new steels has made an offensive fire typing pretty valuable. pivot iron moth sets and dazzling gleam substitute probably work well
same situation as imoth. kyurem’s dd set is no longer a threat at all bc it lacks tblast ground to beat its checks in steels, but subroost and mixed dd sets are still usable. however, the meta isn’t as friendly into it as moth
the new introductions in kgb and ghold had pretty much made this guy obsolete. the reintroduction of the steels can pretty much stonewall corv’s usual brave bird pivot set, while gholdengo is able to consistently come in again and again and deny defog. the raging bolt semisun teams were seeing as of late also abuse corviknight to a large extent. no tera removes another option in its toolkit as well, unable to tera dragon to stop waterpon or volcarona from sweeping. generally the ban went very bad for the big steel bird
this should come as pretty obvious. one of garg’s most important tools was terastal, being able to avoid its bad rock typing to utilize salt cure fully. it can’t tera fairy to avoid mlop and mmedi cc, or dragon to wall pon, or water to avoid its shifu weakness. furthermore, the new steels can threaten it super effectively and tusk just owns it so it’s not good into the meta regardless. it’s not even closely as good as it once was
same reason as above. tera was the one thing preventing dirge from being shit and now that it’s gone.. dirge is shit lmao no use using that on any team ever
what do you think of the new meta? what else do you think gained potential, and what would you like to see going forward?
Surprised there was no mention of Ogerpon formes here, they absolutely loved Tera Water or Tera Grass to both amplify their power and give them a neat stat boost, leading to them tanking more hits, outspeeding foes like Tapu Koko and 2HKOing stuff like Garchomp with just their unboosted Ivy Cudgels. But this doesn't mean they're completely unviable of course. Sure, Teal Ogerpon isn't viable as much, but Ogerpon-W and Ogerpon-C are still pretty solid Pokemon. More notably, for the former, there's a set I've been loving as of recently, and although Swords Dance is still pretty good, this set feels more flexible, splashable, and does great into a lot of the things that you've said have gotten better, like Moltres, Great Tusk and Ting Lu:
Ogerpon-Wellspring @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Horn Leech
- U-turn
- Spikes / Encore / Knock Off
Ogerpon-W makes for a pretty good Spikes setter all things considered, especially since its good at forcing switches between common threats like Great Tusk, Landorus-T and Alomomola. This is also what makes it a great pivot too, since it's innate ability to pressure out Moltres and Great Tusk (the two most common hazard removal options right now) make it annoying to deal with for a lot of balance teams, especially with the drop of Ferrothorn and Raging Bolt usage. Encore is a similarly broken move, letting it curbstomp Kingambit and greedy DDance Dragapult players, while Knock Off hits the Specs-variants of the latter and other Dragons for chip damage while being good utility.
Ogerpon-C can also run a set similar to this, but it being walled completely by Kingambit, and Gholdengo if not running Knock Off limits its effectiveness, and even if it can pressure out Zapdos or Tornadus-T, it can't do the same to Landorus-T and Gliscor as easily, making it worse at this job. This also leads it to having major 4MSS in general as well. A lot of this applies to Teal Ogerpon too, although that can run Heavy-Duty Boots, and is a slightly better lead because of Defiant messing with Landorus-T.
Gave all the current ou mons on the survey (zard-y), ghold, pult) a 1, all the potential suspect targets (Magearna, Moon, etc.) a 5, and wrote in Darkrai, Baxcalibur, Lando-I, and Ogerpon-H as additional Pokémon we should consider unbanning.
We sacrificed Tera for more Pokémon. Let's not regress by prioritizing bans over unbans.
I voted mostly 1s for the current mons (2s on Pult, Melm, Char-Y because they feel like bigger teambuilding constraints) because I don't think any of them are obscenely broken and probably would be better for meta to settle a bit to see how things pan out. Lot of stuff being used, toyed with still seems like things are being optimized. I voted mostly in support of no further unbans but I put deo-S at 3, acknowledging now that Z-move Deo-S would probably be too much. I am not really in the unban happy camp like some others for the same reasons I voted 1 on the mons like gambt, ghold. Would like meta to settle a bit before adding more things, even if some of them possibly might not be good in practice.
Both Enjoyment and Balance wise, things feel notably improved. Still not perfect (and I'll get to that), but the Tera ban has made building feel a lot less "pick what you lose to because you don't have room to account for it" when building Balance which as a playstyle is genuinely viable again. It still has hurdles to get past (again, will get to that) but it's felt really nice being able to experiment and work with the style again. Offense/HO feels perfectly good, still strong, but it hasn't felt the same overbearing it did before.
The big three steels all feel very balanced and positive presences in the tier overall, and have opened up teambuilding avenues that are cool, unique and healthy overall. Not one of them feels overbearing in the slightest, though one could maybe argue that Kingambit's Pursuit game is very strong at enabling some threats but I'd argue that's more on the threats it enables rather than it, and it's SD sets are perfectly fine parts of the tier now that also have to work rather hard to sweep now.
I'm kinda middle of the road on how I feel about Dragapult atm, as while DD+Z sets are fierce as they were last time it was around, it also does have checks like Ting-Lu, Garg, Kingambit and MTar, and even from high health Melm can soft check it. I understand fully if some people just find it straining too much to account for even with these options so I wouldn't lose sleep over it if we removed it again. As for ZardY, it's around the middle if slightly below middle for me. Right now it feels nutty and definitely the current best Mega around, but I also am one that believes the meta still being so fresh means that options for handling it could pop up such strategies like Reflect MLatios as seen here. So I think we could wait before deciding on this one. As for Wellspring, I said it here but some teams don't respect this mon for some reason and it's still very scary. I'm open to waiting a bit longer before doing anything as of course new counterplay could emerge, but it's the mon I'm most wary of at this point.
These were the only ones I voted above a 3 on in terms of a suspect. Not particularly interested in revisiting Darkrai or Gouging Fire anytime soon as both were largely broken off the strength of Z Moves (the former particularly Z+Hypnosis which I don't have any love for seeing again). Palafin's been absent for a long time and with the many metagame changes, especially the Tera ban, it could very possibly be alright now and could bring some interesting tools to teambuilding even. Roaring Moon and Sneasler were enabled by Tera largely and while both would still be great without it (I love me some pivot Sneasler), I strongly doubt they'd be broken still. Or who knows maybe ZardY+Banded RM cores would be too good somehow I dunno.
Both were around 3-4(?) for me, although I'm also not in a rush to have either freed and I understand if others aren't either. The bird would be garbage in a post Tera meta and it brings nothing at all to teambuilding.
Overall very much enjoying the new metagame! It's been fun seeing all the unique teams popping up that weren't possible before, and it's felt very satisfying to play. Looking forward to more!
Finished the Survey myself. Very happy overall as I gave everything a 1 that was added. Of the suspects I want Palafin to come back and also Annihilape. Also listed Landorus Incarnate and Baxcalibur as Pokemon we could test. To be clear, if we banned anything then so be it but I think testing is in order.
Personally not a fan of Sneasler and Magearna but I’m sure somebody wants those.
Not gonna lie though, I actually do kind of wanna test Deoxys-Speed. That could be kind of fun ngl, even if it's maybe too much. I also listed Mega Blastoise cause I figure that shit could be fun under rain. But if somebody is gonna scream no I get why.
Tbh, the idea of a poke who can use Expanding Force to any success sounds decently entertaining, and having Fightium Z to make Focus Blast not a game of luck for one turn is interesting. Probably too much, but if there aren't any NatDex tours and such and the playerbase is just kind of, y'know, existing, and not doing much atm, and the poke has enough support, why not test it?
Just as long as anyone doesn't mention Genesect we should be fine
Yeah, if somebody mentions Genesect they might as well say they are freeing Ho-oh or Reshiram because Genesect is absurd.
Do you remember Generation V? No thank you.
To contribute to more discussion have people discussed the best sets on Gholdengo? I see air balloon a lot and scarf, but I feel like there is still a lot that can be explored.
I'm gonna stop us here cuz I don't want this to be a long-winded tangent and have mods step in to stop it. I just think dropping the Ubers should be entertainable at least, and have some kind of nuance and/or discussion to it.
Magearna? Huge moveset variety, and was OU in USUM. Give it another shot for fairness sake.
Palafin? Hasn't been in the tier (I think) since a long while, so obviously it deserves another shot.
Lugia even? Pursuit weak, will likely have huge 4 move slot syndrome, weak to Sucker Punch (hi, Kingambit!), with a, to put it nicely, flawed defensive typing. Also, Zamazenta and Terapagos are in the tier, so entertaining the next crappiest Box Uber feels like a reasonable enough jump, even if it sounds weird.
But maybe i'm missing something. Maybe stuff like Annihilape do have more nuance than I think so. Idk.
). I've built countless Tyranitar teams this generation and I will never fucking stop. I have not posted many of my teams in this thread before but I thought that with the recent tier changes now would be as good as any to share my wisdom. On a serious note, this team...
Moltres (if it doesn't have Stone Edge, which is uncommon..)
Dragapult (W-o-Wisp and Hex combination)
Slowbro
Tapu Fini
Zapdos (bulky set, Static fishing, Rocky Helmet chips and/or Hurricane)
Clefable(if it doesn't have Heavy Slam)
Gholdengo (bulky set can take Crunches)
Ceruledge (if it doesn't have Crunch/Stone Edge)
Aegislash (playing games with King's Shield if it even has Crunch)
Have fun! 
is very threatening to Trick Room which I am glad you pointed out. However, on the flip side, Kingambit is also great ON Trick Room teams since it has the coverage to destroy a ton of Pokemon, including opposing Kingambit with Low Kick. Plus, with Sucker Punch, it's able to threaten things outside Trick Room which is very crucial for the team to succeed if you don't get your twisted dimensions up. Also gonna point out 
as a great Pokemon under trick room that can deal with Kingambit nicely.
is not a gimmick in my opinion, not anymore than trick room in general. When paired with 
who is epic btw you can get Trick Room up a couple times. Also with some luck, Focus Sash 
can avoid an Iron Head Flinch and set room and either die to Sucker Punch or Misty Explosion for momentum. 
is something that is so absurdly bulky that even max power Kingambit barely OHKOs it back. Not ideal since it is obviously a psychic type but worth pointing out.
with a quark drive suite has proven surprisingly effective. Valiant and Hands can threaten gambit pretty well; Hands especially switches in with zero fear. Valiant and koko help you from just dying to big powerful wallbreakers like medicham and urshifu. Might have to try out stakataka, but I dislike having a pile of physical attackers to get intimidate cycled.
, 
and 
