Project Metagame Workshop

[shrekthemaster]

Trying to gauge whether people want a gen 9 First Blood OM?
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/first-blood.3682954/
If so, what would have to be done to get it?

 

[Cancel cult]

Theft
(yes, that's the title)
The premise is simple. After defeating an opponent, that opponents items are added to you. There are no limits to how many items you can have, but you can only bring one into battle for each pokemon.

Now, this sounds like it would essentially be one of those metagame where the winner is decided very quickly, as a pokemon would start to steamroll quite fast. However, consider what happens once the pokemon with all the items is finally defeated. The absolute abundance of items they would have would be transferred to the opponent, who would then start to reverse sweep. If they want to avoid that, they would have to switch out, losing a lot of momentum, which is very dangerous in this meta. Additionally, imagine what happens if a pokemon acquires a choice item or a flame orb intentionally equipped to sabotage the opponent.

I imagine Guts attackers would be a lot better, as would Knock Off and Theif (which target a random item). Focus Sash would probably see a lot of usage, as it is pretty valuable in this meta, and has little risk of helping your opponent. Acrobatics stocks have reached the center of the earth.

Questions: Would this still be too fast paced? If so, could raising the pokemon limit help? Should death from indirect damage sources also result in the transfer of an item?

 

[shrekthemaster]

Theft
(yes, that's the title)
The premise is simple. After defeating an opponent, that opponents items are added to you. There are no limits to how many items you can have, but you can only bring one into battle for each pokemon.

Now, this sounds like it would essentially be one of those metagame where the winner is decided very quickly, as a pokemon would start to steamroll quite fast. However, consider what happens once the pokemon with all the items is finally defeated. The absolute abundance of items they would have would be transferred to the opponent, who would then start to reverse sweep. If they want to avoid that, they would have to switch out, losing a lot of momentum, which is very dangerous in this meta. Additionally, imagine what happens if a pokemon acquires a choice item or a flame orb intentionally equipped to sabotage the opponent.

I imagine Guts attackers would be a lot better, as would Knock Off and Theif (which target a random item). Focus Sash would probably see a lot of usage, as it is pretty valuable in this meta, and has little risk of helping your opponent. Acrobatics stocks have reached the center of the earth.

Questions: Would this still be too fast paced? If so, could raising the pokemon limit help? Should death from indirect damage sources also result in the transfer of an item?

Not sure if you considered it but maybe a clause preventing having multiple of the same item on your team could be an option for balancing. Definitely needs testing.

 

[Cuddly]

Theft
(yes, that's the title)
The premise is simple. After defeating an opponent, that opponents items are added to you. There are no limits to how many items you can have, but you can only bring one into battle for each pokemon.

Now, this sounds like it would essentially be one of those metagame where the winner is decided very quickly, as a pokemon would start to steamroll quite fast. However, consider what happens once the pokemon with all the items is finally defeated. The absolute abundance of items they would have would be transferred to the opponent, who would then start to reverse sweep. If they want to avoid that, they would have to switch out, losing a lot of momentum, which is very dangerous in this meta. Additionally, imagine what happens if a pokemon acquires a choice item or a flame orb intentionally equipped to sabotage the opponent.

I imagine Guts attackers would be a lot better, as would Knock Off and Theif (which target a random item). Focus Sash would probably see a lot of usage, as it is pretty valuable in this meta, and has little risk of helping your opponent. Acrobatics stocks have reached the center of the earth.

Questions: Would this still be too fast paced? If so, could raising the pokemon limit help? Should death from indirect damage sources also result in the transfer of an item?

A way to prevent steamrolling in this metagame is if the item is given to all Pokemon on both sides after being KO’d.
So if you have a Pokemon with Leftovers that faints, all the Pokemon on the opponent’s side get leftovers recovery and all the Pokemon on your side get leftovers recovery.

 

[chartung17]

Theft
(yes, that's the title)
The premise is simple. After defeating an opponent, that opponents items are added to you. There are no limits to how many items you can have, but you can only bring one into battle for each pokemon.

Now, this sounds like it would essentially be one of those metagame where the winner is decided very quickly, as a pokemon would start to steamroll quite fast. However, consider what happens once the pokemon with all the items is finally defeated. The absolute abundance of items they would have would be transferred to the opponent, who would then start to reverse sweep. If they want to avoid that, they would have to switch out, losing a lot of momentum, which is very dangerous in this meta. Additionally, imagine what happens if a pokemon acquires a choice item or a flame orb intentionally equipped to sabotage the opponent.

I imagine Guts attackers would be a lot better, as would Knock Off and Theif (which target a random item). Focus Sash would probably see a lot of usage, as it is pretty valuable in this meta, and has little risk of helping your opponent. Acrobatics stocks have reached the center of the earth.

Questions: Would this still be too fast paced? If so, could raising the pokemon limit help? Should death from indirect damage sources also result in the transfer of an item?

I think there are a lot of edge cases you need to consider. For example:

• What happens if a Pokémon holds two identical items (e.g. two Choice Bands or two Focus Sashes)?
• What happens if multiple consumable items could activate (e.g. a Pokémon falls asleep while holding a Chesto Berry and a Lum Berry)?
• How does Unburden work?

Also, I'm not sure snowballing will be a major issue; having harmful items (Flame Orb, Choice Scarf, Assault Vest, Iron Ball, etc.) could be a good strategy here.

 

[Cuddly]

I think there are a lot of edge cases you need to consider. For example:

• What happens if a Pokémon holds two identical items (e.g. two Choice Bands or two Focus Sashes)?
• What happens if multiple consumable items could activate (e.g. a Pokémon falls asleep while holding a Chesto Berry and a Lum Berry)?
• How does Unburden work?

Also, I'm not sure snowballing will be a major issue; having harmful items (Flame Orb, Choice Scarf, Assault Vest, Iron Ball, etc.) could be a good strategy here.

I don’t think detrimental items will be all that good, besides on teams dedicated to using them.
You first would need to bring a detrimental item on a Pokemon, which not every Pokemon will benefit from, then get KO’d, and if you KO that Pokemon with you detrimental items, your new Pokemon is now holding it.
Like your Gliscor is KO’d by Opp’s Kyurem Ice Beam > Opp’s Kyurem gets Toxic Orb > Your Iron Valiant KOs Opp’s Kyurem > You get Toxic Orb on your Iron Valiant now.
That’s a better case scenario since Gliscor benefits from Toxic Orb. Imagine if it was another Pokemon or Iron Ball.

 

[Pigbeeef]

Ok this idea has been in the oven for a while now, but I just turned it on not too long ago lmao…

So basically after first seeing random battles, I got an idea… what if, instead of making teams random, we just allow all the different mons from miraidon to sunflora, but at different levels? Like the most busted Ubers / AG like Zacian-Crowned and Calyrex-shadow legal somewhere around the mid level 60s or something around that and have shitmons like decidueye be at like idk… around level 89? This way many mons could be used in different ways and allow them to use their gimmick at similar power levels, or just make them more balanced in general. Or maybe I just like seeing my favorite Ubers staples battling on a level field with mons like articuno.

For example, a level 66 koraidon would be a sun setter + wall breaker with 5 turns of high power action instead of an instant win button when battling mid 70s OU mons like zamazenta and val, and its not gonna just outspeed everything with a single boost either.

But the hard part is probably the specific levels, we probably can’t copy paste randbats numbers because there are many things different in randbats.

What do you guys think?

Tldr to who doesn’t wanna read all that:
strong mons get lower levels, weak mons get higher levels, standard clauses otherwise.

Some restrictions on cart might be lifted to accommodate certain mons.

 

[HiZo]

Ok this idea has been in the oven for a while now, but I just turned it on not too long ago lmao…

So basically after first seeing random battles, I got an idea… what if, instead of making teams random, we just allow all the different mons from miraidon to sunflora, but at different levels? Like the most busted Ubers / AG like Zacian-Crowned and Calyrex-shadow legal somewhere around the mid level 60s or something around that and have shitmons like decidueye be at like idk… around level 89? This way many mons could be used in different ways and allow them to use their gimmick at similar power levels, or just make them more balanced in general. Or maybe I just like seeing my favorite Ubers staples battling on a level field with mons like articuno.

For example, a level 66 koraidon would be a sun setter + wall breaker with 5 turns of high power action instead of an instant win button when battling mid 70s OU mons like zamazenta and val, and its not gonna just outspeed everything with a single boost either.

But the hard part is probably the specific levels, we probably can’t copy paste randbats numbers because there are many things different in randbats.

What do you guys think?

Tldr to who doesn’t wanna read all that:
strong mons get lower levels, weak mons get higher levels, standard clauses otherwise.

Some restrictions on cart might be lifted to accommodate certain mons.

There was an OM idea similar to this submitted, but having to choose each level for the pokemon ended up being too granular, can be considered too subjective, and also too close to Tier Shift in what it tries to accomplish.

 

[Cuddly]

Ok this idea has been in the oven for a while now, but I just turned it on not too long ago lmao…

So basically after first seeing random battles, I got an idea… what if, instead of making teams random, we just allow all the different mons from miraidon to sunflora, but at different levels? Like the most busted Ubers / AG like Zacian-Crowned and Calyrex-shadow legal somewhere around the mid level 60s or something around that and have shitmons like decidueye be at like idk… around level 89? This way many mons could be used in different ways and allow them to use their gimmick at similar power levels, or just make them more balanced in general. Or maybe I just like seeing my favorite Ubers staples battling on a level field with mons like articuno.

For example, a level 66 koraidon would be a sun setter + wall breaker with 5 turns of high power action instead of an instant win button when battling mid 70s OU mons like zamazenta and val, and its not gonna just outspeed everything with a single boost either.

But the hard part is probably the specific levels, we probably can’t copy paste randbats numbers because there are many things different in randbats.

What do you guys think?

Tldr to who doesn’t wanna read all that:
strong mons get lower levels, weak mons get higher levels, standard clauses otherwise.

Some restrictions on cart might be lifted to accommodate certain mons.

Tier Shift exists and this wouldn’t excite people as much since you’re just making stronger Pokemon weaker rather than weaker Pokemon stronger.

 

[Pigbeeef]

There was an OM idea similar to this submitted, but having to choose each level for the pokemon ended up being too granular, can be considered too subjective, and also too close to Tier Shift in what it tries to accomplish.

That means it’s already a thing before, well that sucks.
Guess I’ll have to cook sth else now.

 

[Cancel cult]

Ok this idea has been in the oven for a while now, but I just turned it on not too long ago lmao…

So basically after first seeing random battles, I got an idea… what if, instead of making teams random, we just allow all the different mons from miraidon to sunflora, but at different levels? Like the most busted Ubers / AG like Zacian-Crowned and Calyrex-shadow legal somewhere around the mid level 60s or something around that and have shitmons like decidueye be at like idk… around level 89? This way many mons could be used in different ways and allow them to use their gimmick at similar power levels, or just make them more balanced in general. Or maybe I just like seeing my favorite Ubers staples battling on a level field with mons like articuno.

For example, a level 66 koraidon would be a sun setter + wall breaker with 5 turns of high power action instead of an instant win button when battling mid 70s OU mons like zamazenta and val, and its not gonna just outspeed everything with a single boost either.

But the hard part is probably the specific levels, we probably can’t copy paste randbats numbers because there are many things different in randbats.

What do you guys think?

Tldr to who doesn’t wanna read all that:
strong mons get lower levels, weak mons get higher levels, standard clauses otherwise.

Some restrictions on cart might be lifted to accommodate certain mons.

I had an idea similar to this. it was basically like stadium rentals, where there were set sets, and stronger pokemon were nerfed. it ultimately got called a pet mod.

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Monotype All-Tera

Premise: Every Pokémon must share one common type with each other in the teambuilder. All Pokémon immediately Terrastalizes into their Tera Type when they are sent out (after hazards).

Banlist: OU clauses and banlist with some alterations.

Metagame thoughts: This OM is basically Monotype except you get to customise your mons' type via Tera. I think the immediate Terrastalization upon entry removes one of the competitive elements of it (50/50s) while also being really fun because some mons are really held back by their typing *cough cough bug cough*. I think it's different enough from Monotype to be its own OM.

Potential Bans and threats: Maybe Tera Blast could be banned or restricted (<X allowed per team) since it gives everyone a free STAB of their choice. Pokemon-wise I haven't really looked into much but I think some mons that just Tera into ne of it's own types could be a very strong wallbreaker since it's just a free 50% damage boost on their STAB. E.g Tera Dark Roaring Moon with CB Knock Off. Just as I am typing this, I am also considering forcing the Tera to be a non-native type. That might be kinda cool too.

Questions for the community: What do you think off the OM? Do you think it's different enough from standard Monotype? What do you think of forcing mons to use a non-native Tera type? (E.g. Roaring Moon CANNOT be Tera Dark OR Dragon).

 

[Pengu]

Name WIP; Heavyweight Champions

What is it?: A meta where every move is effected by a Pokemon's weight, just like how Heat Crash and Heavy Slam work.

Threats/Bans: Let's go through potential bans first:

Ubers Pokemon - Majority of them will get banned as majority are super powerful and heavy. There are a few stragglers that I could see staying in, although. These include:

- Specifically Speed and Defense, although the other two could be fine and go through some testing. They are just relatively light ANF their moves wouldn't do much to many Pokemon that are expected to be good.

- I'm on the fence about this one. It isn't too heavy, but it is kinda heavy and still does great damage. Thing is is that there are so many super heavy Pokemon that it could be hard to hit, sooooo I think Urshifu can stay for now.

- Super light and again isn't going to do much against a lot of Pokemon.

- Last one I could see coming in, only issue is Quiver Dance.

Now Threats:

- Strong, bulky, and heavy. Might get banned, we'll see.

Tera - I'm also not too sure about this, since some Pokemon are so light they can abuse the BP minimum of Tera.

Other really heavy Pokemon like Metagross, Snorlax, and Ting-lu can all be scary.

Questions for you guys:

Is this name good to show what the OM stands for? (Like do you think of this when you hear the name)

How would set up sweeping work, and should it get restricted? A lot of heavy Pokemon like Glastrier can use Swords Dance and proceed to sweep with Icicle Crash.

That's all, feedback is appreciated!

 

[Lectrys]

Name WIP; Heavyweight Champions

What is it?: A meta where every move is effected by a Pokemon's weight, just like how Heat Crash and Heavy Slam work.

Threats/Bans: Let's go through potential bans first:

Ubers Pokemon - Majority of them will get banned as majority are super powerful and heavy. There are a few stragglers that I could see staying in, although. These include:

- Specifically Speed and Defense, although the other two could be fine and go through some testing. They are just relatively light ANF their moves wouldn't do much to many Pokemon that are expected to be good.

- I'm on the fence about this one. It isn't too heavy, but it is kinda heavy and still does great damage. Thing is is that there are so many super heavy Pokemon that it could be hard to hit, sooooo I think Urshifu can stay for now.

- Super light and again isn't going to do much against a lot of Pokemon.

- Last one I could see coming in, only issue is Quiver Dance.

Now Threats:

- Strong, bulky, and heavy. Might get banned, we'll see.

Tera - I'm also not too sure about this, since some Pokemon are so light they can abuse the BP minimum of Tera.

Other really heavy Pokemon like Metagross, Snorlax, and Ting-lu can all be scary.

Questions for you guys:

Is this name good to show what the OM stands for? (Like do you think of this when you hear the name)

How would set up sweeping work, and should it get restricted? A lot of heavy Pokemon like Glastrier can use Swords Dance and proceed to sweep with Icicle Crash.

That's all, feedback is appreciated!

I'm having Fortemons flashbacks in one important aspect: are multi-hit moves affected by this weight-based BP change?

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Monotype All-Tera

Premise: Every Pokémon must share one common type with each other in the teambuilder. All Pokémon immediately Terrastalizes into their Tera Type when they are sent out (after hazards).

I don’t really understand what the teambuilder monotype restriction does for the OM when the typing is most likely going to be replaced anyways.

 

[Pengu]

I'm having Fortemons flashbacks in one important aspect: are multi-hit moves affected by this weight-based BP change?

The answer to that is yes, but we might need some bans on rather vastly accessible moves like Scale Shot. Other moves like Population Bomb and Surging Strikes that are learned by less Pokémon, although, will probably stay (as long as Urshifu doesn’t get banned)

 

[chartung17]

The answer to that is yes, but we might need some bans on rather vastly accessible moves like Scale Shot. Other moves like Population Bomb and Surging Strikes that are learned by less Pokémon, although, will probably stay (as long as Urshifu doesn’t get banned)

+1 252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits, 40BP each) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Steel: 430-510 (96.8 - 114.8%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO

Most multi-hit moves are much better in this format even with a lightweight user due to the 40BP minimum of Heat Crash; on a heavy user, some of them could get even higher total BP than the calc above.

 

[Cuddly]

Name WIP; Heavyweight Champions

What is it?: A meta where every move is effected by a Pokemon's weight, just like how Heat Crash and Heavy Slam work.

Threats/Bans: Let's go through potential bans first:

Ubers Pokemon - Majority of them will get banned as majority are super powerful and heavy. There are a few stragglers that I could see staying in, although. These include:

- Specifically Speed and Defense, although the other two could be fine and go through some testing. They are just relatively light ANF their moves wouldn't do much to many Pokemon that are expected to be good.

- I'm on the fence about this one. It isn't too heavy, but it is kinda heavy and still does great damage. Thing is is that there are so many super heavy Pokemon that it could be hard to hit, sooooo I think Urshifu can stay for now.

- Super light and again isn't going to do much against a lot of Pokemon.

- Last one I could see coming in, only issue is Quiver Dance.

Now Threats:

- Strong, bulky, and heavy. Might get banned, we'll see.

Tera - I'm also not too sure about this, since some Pokemon are so light they can abuse the BP minimum of Tera.

Other really heavy Pokemon like Metagross, Snorlax, and Ting-lu can all be scary.

Questions for you guys:

Is this name good to show what the OM stands for? (Like do you think of this when you hear the name)

How would set up sweeping work, and should it get restricted? A lot of heavy Pokemon like Glastrier can use Swords Dance and proceed to sweep with Icicle Crash.

That's all, feedback is appreciated!

So how exactly will weight impact each move? There are moves like Low Kick and Grass Knot, as well as Heavy Slam and Heat Crash.
What happens exactly when you use say Meteor Mash from Metagross against Celebi?
If it gets identical BP to what Heavy Slam would do, then there is a massive issue where the Metagame revolves around Heavy and Fat Pokemon who are only dealing low amounts of damage to each other. Lightweights need some advantage in this metagame to prevent that.

 

[Pengu]

+1 252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits, 40BP each) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Steel: 430-510 (96.8 - 114.8%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO

Most multi-hit moves are much better in this format even with a lightweight user due to the 40BP minimum of Heat Crash; on a heavy user, some of them could get even higher total BP than the calc above.

Multi-hit moves I guess are really broken here... might just need to ban them. We can also just ban the broken users and keep the tolerable ones, will need testing although.

So how exactly will weight impact each move? There are moves like Low Kick and Grass Knot, as well as Heavy Slam and Heat Crash.
What happens exactly when you use say Meteor Mash from Metagross against Celebi?
If it gets identical BP to what Heavy Slam would do, then there is a massive issue where the Metagame revolves around Heavy and Fat Pokemon who are only dealing low amounts of damage to each other. Lightweights need some advantage in this metagame to prevent that.

The moves will work like Heavy Slam. So moves that already function like that will be the same as they usually work. As for moves like Low Kick and Grass Knot, they will be like Heavy Slam, using the user's weight.

To grant lightweights advantages, there are quite a few possibilities, but I think this one is the best:

We have the bulky Pokemon act as restricted Pokemon, with a list of them and you can only choose one, kind of like Godly Gift (in the aspect that you choose one "god")

This makes it so lighter Pokemon get a chance, and since the lightest Pokemon tend to be rather useless like Gastly (sorry Gastly supporters), it should be fine that way.

If you have suggestions, I'm open to them!

 

[Cuddly]

The moves will work like Heavy Slam. So moves that already function like that will be the same as they usually work. As for moves like Low Kick and Grass Knot, they will be like Heavy Slam, using the user's weight.

To grant lightweights advantages, there are quite a few possibilities, but I think this one is the best:

We have the bulky Pokemon act as restricted Pokemon, with a list of them and you can only choose one, kind of like Godly Gift (in the aspect that you choose one "god")

This makes it so lighter Pokemon get a chance, and since the lightest Pokemon tend to be rather useless like Gastly (sorry Gastly supporters), it should be fine that way.

If you have suggestions, I'm open to them!

So yeah that’s not really ideal and has multiple problems.
1. Tons of moves are now just flat out redundent. What’s the point of running Fire Blast if its BP will be identical to Flamethrower, but is less accurate and has less PP? There is no reason to run any moves have drawbacks like Leaf Storm or Fire Blast anymore since most of those moves are balanced by being stronger than typical move. Also moves like Bullet Seed are not super broken having moves that range from 160 - 200 while everything else is 40 BP.

2. Every move is going to have 40-60 BP in practice and no matter the ban list the heaviest Pokemon will ALWAYS only feel 40 BP moves. Naturally the heaviest Pokemon are going to be the most desired Pokemon because they take the least amount of damage from Heavy Slam and deal the most possible using Heavy Slam. With that in mind, you end up with is handful of the heaviest Pokemon and hitting each other with pool noodles.
Btw here is the the highest SpA in SV fighting a Copperajah with Heavy Metal.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Attack Stored Power (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Copperajah: 63-74 (14 - 16.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Attack Ember vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Copperajah: 168-198 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And also Ting-Lu:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Attack Focus Blast (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 116-138 (22.5 - 26.8%) -- possible 5HKO

3. Literally no amount of restrictions will help this metagame out. Besides a few exceptions, you ALWAYS want to use the heaviest Pokemon available.
Like the heaviest legal Pokemon currently is Heavy Metal Copperajah. All moves in the game will hit it for 40 BP of damage, making it practically invincible. So you ban it. But whoops, now that title belongs to Mudsdale being the next heaviest available Pokemon (that has a movepool and isn’t Ubers already). Ban that too. Whoops now the heaviest available Pokemon is Glastrier! And so on.
And say you have restrictions like Godly Gift somehow. You can have 1 really fat Pokemon like Metagross, but then the rest of your team is going to use the heaviest non-restricted Pokemon due to the previous principle.

Simply converting every move’s BP function identically to Heavy Slam is just a bad idea. Here are a few idea on how this meta could be salvaged.

A. Use the regular BP of moves as a base and have weight difference determine damage.
So if you use Fire Blast, the standard BP is 110 BP. If the target is >50% the user’s weight, it’ll deal x0.5 damage. At 33.35% - 50%, Fire Blast will deal x0.75 damage, the same damage at 25.01% - 33.34% weight, x1.25 at 20.01% - 25%, and x1.5 when the target is <20% the user’s weight.
This doesn’t solve the issue of the the heaviest Pokemon being the more desired Pokemon but it does solve the issue of moves being redundent.

B. Have Heavy Slam and Grass Knot be part of the game in some way. Either 1st and 2nd move slots changing BP of moves, or having Shinies deal Grass Knot damage. This would in turn give light weight Pokemon a niche and gives heavy weights a drawback.

 

[KaenSoul]

So yeah that’s not really ideal and has multiple problems.
1. Tons of moves are now just flat out redundent. What’s the point of running Fire Blast if its BP will be identical to Flamethrower, but is less accurate and has less PP? There is no reason to run any moves have drawbacks like Leaf Storm or Fire Blast anymore since most of those moves are balanced by being stronger than typical move. Also moves like Bullet Seed are not super broken having moves that range from 160 - 200 while everything else is 40 BP.

2. Every move is going to have 40-60 BP in practice and no matter the ban list the heaviest Pokemon will ALWAYS only feel 40 BP moves. Naturally the heaviest Pokemon are going to be the most desired Pokemon because they take the least amount of damage from Heavy Slam and deal the most possible using Heavy Slam. With that in mind, you end up with is handful of the heaviest Pokemon and hitting each other with pool noodles.
Btw here is the the highest SpA in SV fighting a Copperajah with Heavy Metal.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Attack Stored Power (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Copperajah: 63-74 (14 - 16.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Attack Ember vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Copperajah: 168-198 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And also Ting-Lu:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Attack Focus Blast (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 116-138 (22.5 - 26.8%) -- possible 5HKO

3. Literally no amount of restrictions will help this metagame out. Besides a few exceptions, you ALWAYS want to use the heaviest Pokemon available.
Like the heaviest legal Pokemon currently is Heavy Metal Copperajah. All moves in the game will hit it for 40 BP of damage, making it practically invincible. So you ban it. But whoops, now that title belongs to Mudsdale being the next heaviest available Pokemon (that has a movepool and isn’t Ubers already). Ban that too. Whoops now the heaviest available Pokemon is Glastrier! And so on.
And say you have restrictions like Godly Gift somehow. You can have 1 really fat Pokemon like Metagross, but then the rest of your team is going to use the heaviest non-restricted Pokemon due to the previous principle.

Simply converting every move’s BP function identically to Heavy Slam is just a bad idea. Here are a few idea on how this meta could be salvaged.

A. Use the regular BP of moves as a base and have weight difference determine damage.
So if you use Fire Blast, the standard BP is 110 BP. If the target is >50% the user’s weight, it’ll deal x0.5 damage. At 33.35% - 50%, Fire Blast will deal x0.75 damage, the same damage at 25.01% - 33.34% weight, x1.25 at 20.01% - 25%, and x1.5 when the target is <20% the user’s weight.
This doesn’t solve the issue of the the heaviest Pokemon being the more desired Pokemon but it does solve the issue of moves being redundent.

B. Have Heavy Slam and Grass Knot be part of the game in some way. Either 1st and 2nd move slots changing BP of moves, or having Shinies deal Grass Knot damage. This would in turn give light weight Pokemon a niche and gives heavy weights a drawback.

While it is worth trying to salvage the idea, making it more complex doesn't sound that attractive, we avoid stuff that is difficult to tell at first glance, and in the other hand using shinies to differentiate stuff is something we have been avoiding for years because of not all shinies being legal.
Either way I don't think this could work, we have already seen how weight based mons cause problems in Fortemons and here it seems like there is no route that doesn't end on "all moves deal about the same damage".

 

[Cuddly]

Frankly I got a better idea for weight based metagame.
Every Pokemon below 30kg gains 5 point of base speed for every kg below 30 they are, and lose 5 points of base HP. Inversely Every Pokemon above 30kg gains 5 points of base HP and lose 5 points of base speed, capping at 59kg and regular base stat caps of 1 and 255.
So Gastly would have -145 HP (in this case 1 HP) and +145 Spe (225 Spe) due to being 0.1kg.

 

[chartung17]

Frankly I got a better idea for weight based metagame.
Every Pokemon below 30kg gains 5 point of base speed for every kg below 30 they are, and lose 5 points of base HP. Inversely Every Pokemon above 30kg gains 5 points of base HP and lose 5 points of base speed, capping at 59kg and regular base stat caps of 1 and 255.
So Gastly would have -145 HP (in this case 1 HP) and +145 Spe (225 Spe) due to being 0.1kg.

This sounds like a meta where stall will dominate. Some offensive mons get faster (Azelf hits base 255), but they don't get any stronger, while defensive mons (except Toxapex) get significantly bulkier (no time to come up with examples right now, but +145 base HP is huge).

Edit: this will also result in a lot of speed ties, since just about everything that weighs 50kg or more will have base 1 speed. (There are probably also a lot of mons that can hit base 255 speed, but I doubt they would be viable, since they have base 1 HP and can't hit hard enough to break the heavy mons).

 

[Cuddly]

This sounds like a meta where stall will dominate. Some offensive mons get faster (Azelf hits base 255), but they don't get any stronger, while defensive mons (except Toxapex) get significantly bulkier (no time to come up with examples right now, but +145 base HP is huge).

Edit: this will also result in a lot of speed ties, since just about everything that weighs 50kg or more will have base 1 speed. (There are probably also a lot of mons that can hit base 255 speed, but I doubt they would be viable, since they have base 1 HP and can't hit hard enough to break the heavy mons).

Definitely better than every move having effective 40 BP. Plus you can modify the numbers.
30kg being a middle ground number since about half of all Pokemon are below 30kg in weight and other half are above. I just picked 5 for each kg because 1 would be pretty boring.
If you have ideas you can post them.

 

[Sviqma]

Balance Shifts

(Other suggestions for the metaname are welcome)

(First of all, my apologies for my poor English)

Premise: The conditions of the battefield change in direct response to the health percentages and momentum of each player.

Explanation:
Each battle begins with neutral conditions (no weather, no terrain, no room effects). Every 5 turns, OR when a player's total team health percentage drops below a specific threshold, the battle conditions shift. The type of shift depends on who has the lower team health percentage at the time of the shift. Per team, only one weather, one terrain and one room effect can be selected. Each player changes the name of three of their six Pokémon to select the 'comeback' conditions of their choice. The selected conditions apply even if the nicknamed Pokémon has fainted.

At the end of turn 5, 10, 15... [x + 5] (where x is the most recent turn the battle conditions got changed) the battle conditions change to what the player who has the lowest team health percentage selected. However, if the total team health percentage of either player drops below 75%, 50%, 25% and 10%, the battle conditions change to what the player whose team hit that team health percentage threshold selected.

Important: each total team health percentage threshold can only be triggerd once by either player. For example: if the total team health percentage of player X hits the 75% threshold, the battle conditions change. However, if the player Y later also hits the 75% threshold, the battle conditions do not change. If player Y would hit the 50% threshold first, the battle conditions do change, while they do not change if player X hits the 50% threshold.

If possible, there should definitely be a feature that allows both players to see the total team health percentage of both team at all times to encourage strategizing.

Example:

(Excadrill nicknamed 'Rain Dance')
(Raging Bolt nicknamed 'Electric Terrain')
(Latios nicknamed 'Wonder Room')

Because of the nicknaming, the selected battle conditions are known to each player before the start of the match.

If the player with this team has the lowest team health percentage after 5, 10, 15... turns, OR their total team health percentage drops below 75%, 50%, 25% or 10%, the battle conditions change to Rain, Electric Terrain and Magic Room for 5 turns. If this player still has a lower total team health percentage than the opponent, the battle conditions remain unchanged.

Questions:
Q1 - A simpler variation to this idea, would be to only change the battle conditions every 5 turns based on the player who has the lower team health percentage. What do you think of this idea?

Bans:
Pokémon
At this point, I find it too hard to say what mons will be broken.

Abilities
All weather-setting abilities: Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, Snow Warning and Deltra Stream
All terrain-setting abilities: Grassy Surge, Electric Surge, Psychic Surge and Misty Surge
(F for no dimension setting abilities lol)
If it is possible to modify these abilities to not affect the current field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).

Moves
All weather-setting moves: Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sandstorm, Snowscape and Chilly Reception
All terrain-setting moves: Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain and Misty Terrain
All dimension-setting moves: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room and Gravity
If it is possible to modify these moves to not affect the current field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).

Nicknaming
The only legal battle conditions to nickname your Pokémon are 'Rain Dance', 'Sunny Day', 'Sandstorm', 'Snowscape', 'Grassy Surge', 'Electric Surge', 'Psychic Surge', 'Misty Surge', 'Trick Room', 'Magic Room', 'Wonder Room' and 'Gravity'.

Steelroller - as it becomes a free 130 BP Steel-type move when any terrain is active.
Ice Spinner - as it clears the field of terrain. This is not needed if the secondary effect of Ice Spinner can be nullified with mods.

Other:
I am unaware whether some of these ideas would be impossible to implement in the simulator, so I would love to hear if there are such limitations.

Final:
As stated in my previous suggestions, I've always found field conditions an insanely unique mechanic added in mons. With this metagame, I hope to inspire people to make interesting teams that can function under the more obscure conditions of Magic Room, Wonder Room and Gravity.

I am once again very curious about your opinions on this OM. I am also very interested in hearing suggestions to improve, or even ideas you came up with to use in this metagame!