Metagame Twisted Dimension

[AVUser]

This set is more powerful than I thought, it was just an idea and it turned out to be a lot of fun.

Greedent @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Body Slam

 

[VannAccessible]

Torkoal, Glastrier and Power/Ball have been quick banned! Giratina, Zamazenta-Crowned, Zacian and Zacian-Crowned have been freed!​

The results of our new council’s first tiering action vote are in! Thank you to solrock the great for the table formating.

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subject​	VannAccessible​	solrock the great​	Lectrys​	Fingie Snatcher​	S1nn0hC0nfirm3d​	result​
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​	DNB​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	DNB​	BAN​
​	BAN​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​
​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	BAN​	DNB​
​	DNB​	ABSTAIN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​
​	DNB​	ABSTAIN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​
​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	BAN​	DNB​
​	BAN​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	NA​	DNB​
​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	BAN​	DNB​

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After exploring some options to either attempt to contain or outright quickban the three most dominating mons of the tier, the council has voted to make turtle soup out of everyone’s favorite nuclear powered wallbreaking tortoise Torkoal, and send the premier Curse-sweeping Glastier off to the glue factory. Torkoal’s overwhelming speed, utility, coverage and Eruption spam left it very little room for reliable counterplay, while Glastrier was too braindead at snowballing and sweeping teams, especially when factoring in its access to Taunt to limit its defensive answers.

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Dondozo, the tier’s most consistent blanket check and Curse wincon after Glas, survives without a single vote to ban. Its counterplay was deemed ample and diverse, as the meta can exploit its squishy base Sp. Def, spotty recovery, initially slow start up Curse boosting, and vulnerability to the tier’s best priority in Raging Bolt’s Thunderclap. The loss of Glastier and Torkoal should also lift up defensive Don checks like Haze Toxapex and Clear Smog Amoonguss, as well as the numerous powerful offensive Grass-types of the tier like Hydrapple and Sinistcha. Torkoal leaving also makes room for Pinurchin to become the new best form of immediate offensive speed control, further reducing Dondozo’s centralization.

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After weighing the pros and cons, the Power/Ball speed halving items, or individually Power Anklet, Power Band, Power Belt, Power Bracer, Power Lens, Power Weight and Iron Ball, were all deemed too overcentralizing, as most offensive threats were obligated to hold them in order to speed creep one another. Thusly, Power/Ball were voted to be banned as well. Their removal should allow much more flexibility with item choice and predictability regarding speed tiers.

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Despite Dual Screens Grimmsnarl HO being potent at high ladder, meta trends are leading the tier to a balanced focus. Thus Light Clay was not considered broken at this time and remains free.

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The council was also presented with 4ish Ubers for consideration to be freed into the meta.

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Giratina is the most notable of these to be freed. Its presence in the tier provides a new defensive piece to the meta with its Dragon/Ghost typing, which checks Dondozo and other Curse users, as well as Iron Defense + Body Press, when combined with its formidable bulk and access to Will o’ Wisp, Dragon Tail and Roar. While fat, Giratina also lacks reliable recovery and poor speed itself, so it should not prove to be too overbearing. Giratina also provides a new, valuable form of hazard, terrain and screen control with its access to Defog, while also functioning as a spin blocker itself, should other Rapid Spinners attempt to rise and take over Torkoal’s role as hazard control.

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Zamazenta-Crowned, with its great bulk and excellent Fighting/Steel defensive typing, is also freed as a new defensive check to Curse spam. Like Giratina, its abysmal speed (outside Trick Room) and zero recovery access are its limiting factors, which is further compounded by its inability to hold an item.

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Palkia and its Origin form were also explored as a means of containing Torkoal and Dondozo. Ultimately, it was decided against, as its potential as a self-setting Trick Room countersweeper was deemed too much of an overcorrection to be freed. Inside Trick Room, Palkia’s counterplay would’ve likely been limited to special walls, due to its excellent dual STABs and offensive power.

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As a more frail high-speed glass cannon, Zacian was largely an afterthought from early tiering, but may find an offensive niche with Trick Room support and good Fairy typing.

Update: Zacian-Crowned has also been freed following a revote by the council. Zac-C trades its ability to hold an item for a secondary Steel-defensive typing to better serve as a slow breaker, and despite having dogwater speed, should prove to be a potent threat in Trick Room.

With time, we will see how these changes allow the Twisted Dimension meta to breathe and develop.

Have fun out there!

———
​

Pinging dhelmise for implementation. While I have your attention, I have two other questions:

1. Any verdict on Room Service? This item is a good compromise on speed control, and I think having it auto-proc on entry falls within the initial premise of the tier.

2. @DeeFeeMee on the OM Discord suggested “this format should have the trick room background up at all times (unless you use the move trick room).”

I rather like this idea. How do the community, you and KaenSoul feel about implementing a purely cosmetic flair to the OM?

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Why is it only these three Ubers that are freed? Why not Mewtwo, Zekrom, Dialga, etc, which are most definitely less controversial due to their slightly weaker offenses?

 

[VannAccessible]

Why is it only these three Ubers that are freed? Why not Mewtwo, Zekrom, Dialga, etc, which are most definitely less controversial due to their slightly weaker offenses?

Because they haven’t been discussed adequately. Of those three, I would urge caution in freeing them, as Zekrom has mixed offenses and bulk, and can be pushed even harder by Pinurchin, whereas the other two would be demonic Trick Room sweepers, which is the same reason Palkia was not freed.

These were the Ubers on the slate were the most discussed in the OM pre-submission as being the most tame/balanced or for being healthy contributions to the meta.

We, as a community, can discuss the merits of freeing any other Ubers in the future, and what they might bring to the tier, but before we go there, I would urge everyone to discuss the meta as is, after these balance changes are implemented.

We’ll send out a survey for community satisfaction a bit after these changes are implemented and then we can go from there! :)

 

[Velcroc]

2. @DeeFeeMee on the OM Discord suggested “this format should have the trick room background up at all times (unless you use the move trick room).”

I prefer to keep it as is especially with Trick Room being implemented. I understand why it would work from a cosmetic sense, but I think it would be more practical and straight forward to let the standard backgrounds stay. My philosophy Twisted Dimensions is that it is a format where speed order is inverted not necessarily the format where TR is up for the duration of a game. This matters because Trick Room teams do exist even if they suck in practice. People may not think this is important, but there is a reason why stuff like Calyrex-Shadow, Koraidon, and Miraidon aren't freed here.

I would also prefer if I didn't see the Trick Room gridlines every time I closed my eyes.

Meta Snippets



I wouldn't say these items were balanced, but they did contribute to the identity of the tier and did have a noticeable opportunity cost. Still, good riddance. With Power/Ball gone, the speed creep wars will finally be much more manageable, and a proper speed tier can be worked on.

Room Service seems balanced though I can't lie. Room Service is a stat drop by 1 stage when consumed. This means several things: 1) Room Service is an all or nothing item 2) Room Service is a drop by 1 stage or *0.66 (as opposed to halving speed) 3) Room Service can be ignored via phazing. Here's an analogy to explain my point a little better: Iron Ball is like a perma-Tailwind for your mon, Room Service is like a mon holding Booster Energy.

: No comment. Stupid mon.


It's crazy how much survivability a mon that spams Eruption has. Imagine explaining to someone that there's an Eruption mon that can't run boots but can somehow outlast many of its checks. Torkoal has many checks here, but the writing was on the wall. This thing wasn't meant to last. With this mon gone, Dondozo becomes more manageable, and Hatterene becomes less so.

With this gone, I could see something like Camerupt filling its shoes. Partially.


Balance's strongest soldier. Glad to have this thing in the tier. Unlike Zama or Zacian, I can see this thing making long-term waves with its tool kit and typing.

I think with this meta shakeup, Twisted Dimensions is moving to a more playable and balanced state. Good work.

 

[HiZo]

Room Service seems balanced though I can't lie. Room Service is a stat drop by 1 stage when consumed. This means several things: 1) Room Service is an all or nothing item 2) Room Service is a drop by 1 stage or *0.66 (as opposed to halving speed) 3) Room Service can be ignored via phazing. Here's an analogy to explain my point a little better: Iron Ball is like a perma-Tailwind for your mon, Room Service is like a mon holding Booster Energy.

room service only works when trick room is up (which has the opposite effect), so really this item is pretty much one big meme unless you wanna stall out trick room turns.

 

[solrock the great]

i'll give some more in depth thoughts when im home from school, but quick thoughts on the new meta:

: this lil guy rly hates the powerball ban, its base 5 speed is no longer anywhere near as useful

: potential anti-curse tech? the classic idbp could be very helpful in stopping curse sweeps

: tbh i think this stays at the same level as b4, cause being so good into the other 2 top tiers is rly good, but now with them banned its not rly a must have anymore

: goodbye to the idea of this guy having a niche somewhere

: this mon becomes a lot more real when it can actually haze curse like it wants, since powerball kinda gets rid of that niche

 

[Lectrys]

Quick thoughts on the new meta from me:

Every team still needs a Hatterene switch-in. Steel-type stocks go up due to Sun-boosted Mystical Fire no longer being a thing. Beware of Calm Mind-boosted Mystical Fire, though.

Your new premier spinblocker, everyone. Blocks Defog, spits in Lurantis's and Corviknight's face, does well against Avalugg and Forretress. Probably needs Air Balloon for Donphan, though. Torkoal and Glastrier getting banned help that much - Gholdengo can't spinblock Torkoal and is a Steel-type that gets 2HKOed by Glastrier without Attack boosts even when fully PhysDef.

Still does well into Hatterene (though Psyshock deals a chunk), but is no longer the premier spinblocker due to failing to block Defog and performing similarly to Gholdengo against hazard removers otherwise. Gholdengo also does well into Hatterene...

Stocks go down some due to no longer having Torkoal as an entry point (that turns on Protosynthesis to boot), but it still has Dondozo as an entry point. Being great in Trick Room and not sucking outside of Trick Room helps. Being a Dragon-type that can't outspeed Giratina is not good news, though.

Now gets to use Guts, put on a Flame Orb, and use Facade instead of Curse to bash Fairies in. Not much is safe!

An absolutely underrated Rapid Spinner - probably the best offensive spinner left after the Torkoal ban, as Avalugg lacks initial power and has very large weaknesses. Now gets to shine more due to no more Glastrier.

Worn down pretty easily without RestTalk, and looks rather passive with RestTalk. In fact, the set that performed the best for me was not a boosting set, but an OU Kyurem-like Sub-Protect set with Shadow Ball and Dragon Tail/Aura Sphere along with Leftovers...and it needs Toxic Spikes support. ...And it hates faster Knock Offs. And getting randomly burned on the switch (e.g. Rotom-W) was lethal. But it did make Hydrapple run out of Fickle Beam PP! Maybe this set can ditch the Toxic Spikes support and use Will-o-Wisp instead of coverage...but Munchlax and Arboliva love Encoring this mon to hell, and now this set lets Kingambit Swords Dance for free.

EDIT: Pain Split is actually viable recovery on Giratina despite its massive base 150 HP. This even lets it chip switch-ins like Kingambit once Giratina is worn down enough!

This guy is still fine compared to Snorlax - Munchlax can Encore Dondozo with one Curse up, while Snorlax can't.

This guy cannot do Torkoal's job of firmly offensively revenging things because it gets 2HKOed by the average attack and it has no access to any 150-BP moves. It needs Throat Chop for Water Absorb Clodsire and Storm Drain Gastrodon and a Water attack for all other Ground-types. Flinching things with Zing Zap is still funny, though.

 

[Sawkasm]

Instead of the way too long post I didn't quite get to finish before the bans, I will just drop my take on Screens in TD. Enjoy it before the banlist hits!

Imprison Hat + Offensive Dondozo Screens

Imprison Hatterene has been performing insanely well on ladder. Without Torkoal and Iron Ball/Power Items, Hatterene's natural speed tier is almost uncontested (without speed boosts), therefore I expect this to keep performing at least as well as it has been before.

Offensive Dondozo has caught several capable opponents off guard and I will keep testing similar sets post banlist.

 

[VannAccessible]

I’ll offer my speculation on the post-vote implementation meta soon. For now, as Trick Room is looking more and more relevant as a literal anti-meta counterpick, so I have posted this new resource on the OP, inspired by some user comments on OM Discord.

With this, you don’t have to figure out which Ubers are legal via process of elimination from the banlist.

Legal Ubers List

As a convenient “anti-Banlist” reference resource, the following Ubers-tier Pokemon are legal in the Twisted Dimension. Their Uber-tier status alone should not suggest that any of these are dominant, good, or even viable, as the speed inversion severely nerfs them, as their defensive checks outspeed them. The Ubers also do not appreciate the general bulk of the tier reducing their relative offensive power. Still, some may have the bulk, defensive typing, utility or offensive threat as slow breakers to have a viable place in the meta.
It is also worth mentioning that because many of these Pokemon inhabit higher speed tiers, they may ironically be formidable threats under Trick Room, which reverts the speed tiers back to that of standard play for 5 turns. In this scenario, they are still free to invest in bulk, while customizing their speed IVs more flexibly, as their higher base speed should be enough to make them quite fast under Trick Room.

• Annihilape
• Archaludon
• Baxcalibur
• Chien-Pao
• Chi-Yu
• Deoxys
• Deoxys-Attack
• Espathra
• Flutter Mane
• Giratina
• Gouging Fire
• Hoopa
• Hoopa-Unbound
• Iron Bundle
• Landorus
• Ogerpon-Hearthflame
• Palafin
• Regieleki
• Shaymin-Sky
• Sneasler
• Solgaleo
• Spectrier
• Terapagos
• Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
• Urshifu
• Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
• Volcarona
• Zacian
• Zacian-Crowned
• Zamazenta-Crowned

Note: Hoopa is not technically Ubers, but it is listed here for completion, as it is Trick Room relevant.

While we wait for the implementation of the balance adjustments, I have a question for the community for discussion: With the implementation of Trick Room, are you finding any of these threats too overbearing?

The initial banlist was constructed in an environment where Trick Room was not permitted, so I think it’s wise to keep an eye on these guys.

My personal opinion is that Trick Room is the fun new toy right now, and is valuable to counter Curse spam, but full teams are a matchup fish that will struggle high ladder, and the playstyle will prove more inconsistent than it is in standard singles play. Even with the freedom of the Ubers, the playstyle suffers a net loss, due the bulk investment of the tier, and as people explore the virtues of the standard counterplay options of priority, hazards, Taunt, Phazing, Trick+Scarf, Protect, Substitute, and following Torkoal’s exit from the tier, the increased viability of Sand freely destroying Focus Sashes on frail TR-setters. Hazard Stacking, Balance and Stall as archetypes are also on the rise, and Grimmsnarl’s priority screens will also give TR trouble on Screens HO as well.

Me on ladder against TR = LOL
(I’ve placed this team on samples if you want to try it, although it’s now outdated.

However, that should not suggest that individual setters and abusers might not prove too problematic.

Solgaleo, with its great bulk and access to free pivoting with Teleport, the lion could prove problematic in enabling the worst threats. It’s also no slouch as a self-supporting Trick Room cleaner as its mixed offenses are good, though its STABs aren’t great and it suffers from 4mss badly.

While Curse counters pure physical sets even inside TR, Hoopa’s Hyperspace Fury ignores the otherwise solid Trick Room counterplay of Screens, Protect and Substitute. It also has the option to go full special or mixed.

Deoxys-Attack and Flutter Mane are frail and priority weak, but are very powerful, and can set up with Focus Sash. Multi-Hit moves are due for a bump, as Deo-A is probably the best reason to run a full TR team right now. DracoMenace nod.

Espathra is probably a meme pick that struggles to break Steel types, but I just want to talk about it because I find it pretty funny. With Opportunist and Curse being so abundant in the tier, it just might have a niche. It blanks the Curse boosts on switch in, while ignoring the speed drop, and then proceeds to set Trick Room and go to work then go to work with either Lumina Crash or Calm Mind+Stored Power, That’s just about the most poetic flow chart I’ve ever seen.

Please share your thoughts on any Trick Room abusers!

 

[VannAccessible]

Hot diggity dog, we got us a meta! The balance changes above should be live!

I’ve got some tasty predictions for shifts, but first, a surprise council vote on one more freed Uber to add to the crew, who’s announcement yesterday was delayed due to a communication issue, which required a revote.

Zacian-Crowned is also freed!​

See my edited post at the top of this page for more details about Zac-C.

Meta predictions:

With Power/Ball gone, we can use actual items now. The offensive power of the meta goes up considerably, while Leftovers, Boots, Rocky Helmet and Assault Vest help Balance and Stall. Offense likes running Air Balloon and pinch berries on certain things like Gholdengo, Sinistcha and Solgaleo for emergency checks. Hazards are less overpowered with boots spam, but Balance/Stall actually gains due to having longevity and Knock Off.

The most impactful of the freed Ubers, Giratina should be nice for stabilizing the meta, checking both Curse and Hammer Arm snowballing, spreading burn, phazing, giving Balance a boost, being a spin blocker, and being a Defogger that threatens Gholdengo offensively. I’m excited to have it in the meta.

With Glastrier gone, Don is now likely the clear best Curse sweeper, by virtue of it ignoring the boosts of other Curse sweepers. It also really appreciates not having to deal with Power/Ball revenging.
However, the defensive counterplay against it improves considerably with Giratina being freed, and Toxapex, Amoongus, Hydrapple, Appletun, Sinistcha, WA Clodsire and Pinurchin all getting better, not having to deal with Glas and Tork.
Giratina and Zam-C being freed and Trick Room being fixed all provide new Curse counterplay, making Don less essential in the builder. It does beat Zam-C and Zac-C though, so that’s nice. Raging Bolt getting slightly better hurts it too.
No longer S tier or near as centralizing as it was, but still a great pick. I think we are safe to drop it from the watch list.

With Torkoal gone, this guy becomes your new best form of pure offensive speed control. Despite being faster than Torkoal, it is no where near as dominant as Electric Super STAB is far less spammable than Eruption. It thuds into Grass types, Dragons (especially Raging Bolt) and Ground teams, outside of Rain.
Eterrain blocks Rest, which is a huge asset in fighting Dondozo, and to a lesser extent Giratina, since it has Defog.
Power/Ball going away means it’s easier to justify running Electric Seed on stuff, which is nice for this meta as it results in a free Body Press boost.
It also comes in two flavors, Physical and Special. Special can run LO or Specs and beats a lot of Curse users. Physical can run LO, Band or Curse with a STAB that smacks Don, and also causes flinches Zing Zap.
It’s also got Scald, Sucker Punch, Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Memento. Neat tools.

The best priority, by virtue of being special and ignoring the Curse def boosts. It lost Torkoal, which it checked and benefited from its sun, but also gains from Pincurchin rising, both from abusing the Eterrain and as a check to it, so that’s a wash.
Losing Glastrier is really nice for Bolt, and it checks its replacement Ice Curser Avalugg better who doesn’t have a Sp. Def stat.
It matches up well against the new Ubers, as it can still outspeed Giratina, despite having to run 20 speed IVs STAB.
All in all, a nice win for Raging Bolt. Should be better than before.

Quagsire was previously overshadowed by Dondozo as an Unaware Curse abuser due to the bulk and pure Water typing needed to check Glastrier. Now that it’s gone, Quag’s Electric immunity and access to the more reliable Recover for sustain may prove more attractive. The Sand chip immunity is nice too.

The weather game is reinvented without Torkoal. Pelipper liked being able to switch in on Torkoal, but Rain honestly gets better as it has lots of options to deal with Don, Pex, Amoongus and Giratina and it doesn’t have to content with Sin constantly. Sand is nice for Focus Sash Trick Room, and Ttar is a welcome Psychic check with good Knock Off support. Hippo can Curse sweep through Pex with Ground STAB or with Sand Force break if Dondozo is removed. Abomasnow likes Torkoal being gone best of all, becoming a viable defensively bulky Aurora Veil setter that scares out the water types. Ninetales is much worse as a Sun and alt Snow setter, for being slow and frail, don’t use them.

Great picks for rain, as their Water STABs are ridiculous, and their secondary STAB hit Giratina Super Effectively. Crawdaunt is probably the best of these for its options of Knock Off or Switcheroo + Choice Band + Crunch, which breaks Dondozo, Toxapex, Amoongus and Hydrapple more easily.

Garg likes Torkoal taking a hike and Sand and Pex getting a bump. Loses due to the Grasses rising and Covert Cloak being more runnable. Still good for being a Curse user able to disrupt Don and Zam-C, and as suicide Rocks + Explosion leads. Still a great mon.

Still pretty slow and frail for the meta to be very consistent, but with Life Orb + Sheer Force, it can pretty much one shot anything that isn’t a defensive Ground type. It likes also Sand getting a bump.

Enamorus gets a huge bump for Giratina entering the tier as a target for its strong Fairy STAB, a bump for items being freed, and a bump for fitting well on Sand as it doesn’t take chip. Its defensive synergy with Tyranitar is also great.

The new, less busted Glastrier. It’s also got Curse and Ice STAB + Fighting + Ground coverage, but lacks Chilling Neigh and Taunt to goob its defensive checks. Its offenses and sp defense are much more modest, while it has three viable options for abilities, Own Tempo for Intimidate, Sturdy for tanking 1 hit with HDB, or Ice Body for use in conjunction with Snow. It’s also 1 base speed faster than Hatterene out of the box. I dig it.
It also really enjoys Abomasnow rising and being a Rapid Spinner Giratina doesn’t want to switch in on. Cool stuff, ice table man.

Another winner of the “I don’t have to compete with Glas as an offensive Ice-type” sweepstakes. It may not have Curse, but Ice Hammer is highly spammable, its Close Combat STAB is great and Thunder Punch is decently strong coverage with Iron Fist, which can be enhanced with Pinurchin. Base 43 speed out of the box is really good, and it just gets better after 1 Ice Hammer.

Since Snow rises, I can see the Freeze-Dry mons having increased use to break through defensive cores relying on Water-types to be their Ice resists. Glaceon may be preferable for this role due to outspeeding Giratina, whereas Kyurem does not.

Speaking of cannibalizing niches, here’s your new tier Eruption enthusiast. Its base speed, while it can’t tie with Clodsire like Torkoal did, is a more than respectable base 40. The camel trades setting Sun for a secondary Ground STAB, a Rocks neutrality, a 4X Water weakness as opposed to a neutrality under Sun, and an immunity to Thunderclap. Good stuff.

Niche as a sun abuser is dead. Sorry Flowey, your 15 seconds of fame are over.

The main offensive+defensive Grass types all get better without Torkoal and Glastrier around, and these all have a secondary STAB to hit Giratina.
Sinistcha is a great wincon on Hazard Stack teams, Hydrapple outshines its brother Appletun due to having Regenerator and Sticky Hold, but I feel like the later deserves some respect for being a base 30 speed Curse/Iron Defense Body Press mon that can break through Dondozo and Quagsire with Apple Acid. Thick Fat is a cool niche too.

Hell, I’m gonna call it. Grass Spam is looking really good, in general.

This fun guy is a strictly defensive Grass type that is nice for checking Curse and Body Pressers, the offensive Grass types, and non-Steels with Clear Smog. Foul Play is a rather poor fit for the meta, but Grass Knot is good for checking things like Ting-Lu, the Ursalunas, and Iron Hands, even without offensive investment. It can run either Rocky Helmet or Assault Vest.

Worse off compared to the other grasses, with Giratina existing and being a new Defoger and blocking Superpower boosting. It does not like Zac-C and Zam-C either. Pity. Its niche was cool, if not already a little underwhelming.

A Curse user with Grass STAB for Don and Quag, Taunt (nice for Trick Room and shutting down defense) and Drain Punch for sustain is pretty cool, despite starting fairly slow. Could be naughty?

The Curse abusers and Belly Drummers that couldn’t beat Dondozo before still can’t, but now they have to also find their way past Giratina and Zam-C too. That’s rough. At least Granbull can beat Gira, I suppose.

With less pressure from Specs Torkoal and Taunt Glastrier, Pex can actually do stuff in this meta now, which is a little scary. It laughs at a large chunk of the Curse abusers, and is a good option against stalling out Trick Room with Baneful Bunker. Zam-C and Zac-C with access to fast Haze and Toxic. It’s also got Chilling Water, Infestation, Baneful Bunker, and Toxic Spikes. Physical Poison STAB deters Hat from hard switching in on it. It can also stall out Garganacl for days if it holds Covert Cloak, besides enjoying holding Rocky Helmet.

Wishy Fishy stonks rise due to it getting fantastic new Wish recipients in Giratina and Zamazenta-Crowned, on top of Dondozo, Ting-Lu, Solgaleo and Bronzong.
Just look out for Taunt, Psychic Noise and phazing ruining your balance team.

Screens are still good, although slightly less so with Defog Giratina in the house. We are dropping Light Clay from the watch list, for now.


With Power/Ball gone, Trick Room is the best form of speed control in the tier, and strong counterplay to Curse, and has some truly scary Ubers-tier abusers. Full TR is inconsistent in singles with smart building, as it’s very telegraphed with the scariest mons.
However, there’s a saying in Singles Pokemon, “The best Trick Room is secret Trick Room.”
So on mons like Reunclius, Hatterene and the Slowbro fam, you can run maxed speed IVs with Trick Room to be a great late game cleaner, while also countering full TR.

Trick Room? What is Trick Room? “Ting-Lu used Whirlwind.”
(Unless you’re Hat. Then Ting-Lu runs in fear. As it should.)

Vika appriciates being able to use items like Specs, HDB and Throat Spray, but its role in breaking balance cores is hurt by the presence of Giratina.

Do people know about this guy? Dragalge is a scary Adaptability offensive Dragon pivot that Fairies want no part of switching in on with its secondary Poison STAB. With its good defensive typing and a base 44 speed tier as Hydrapple to speed creep the numerous base 45s, he love, love, loves Power/Ball being gone. Doubly so since he can rock Choice Specs, HDB or Assault Vest to take better advantage of its excellent Sp. Def. It’s got Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Focus Blast and Scald to mess with its switch-ins, or just pivot on them with Flip Turn, if it doesn’t want to sink momentum.
It enjoys countering the rise of the Grasses, but the biggest win for Dragalge is being able to target Giratina defensive cores with its Adaptability powered STABs. Should be much better.

Your new best hazard control-control option, now that Torkoal is gone. Same as OU, just slower. Great for Trick Scarf, which May as well be an OHKO move in this meta. Just don’t let a slower Knock Off user beat you to the punch.

Also great Trick Scarfers. Golurk can also swap moves freely because of Klutz and run Sp Def. to be a rocker that threatens Hat with STAB Poltergeist.

Spinner that beats Dengo. Knock Off is always good. Also HDB+Sturdy+Endeavor with either Ice Shard or Sand is funny for trading with wincon sweepers.

Here’s a deep take, Tatsugiri has Rapid Spin and strong STAB Draco Meteor to wallop Giratina trying to switch in to block. It’s…. something?

On the one hand, Flame Orb, Booster Energy / ETerrain and Life Orb are better without Power/Ball around so these guys are a lot more better as breakers, especially with Curse, Hammer Arm and Taunt. Again, Taunt is amazing for shutting down defensive counterplay and Trick Room.
None of these like facing Giratina or the faster Grass types, and the Slowbro family, but they also offensively check the newly other newly freed Steel Ubers. Arguably the same standing in the meta, if not a little better due to Pex’s rise.
Really, really strong, just able to be out offensed. A+ mons all around. Full stalll is hard to make work due to these guys existing.

Reuniclus loves being able to run items without having to worry about Iron/Ball speed creeping. Life Orb+Magic Guard is amazing for offensive sets, especially surprise IV invested Trick Room. Or it can go Sash + Trick Room and just clean in the endgame,
Leftovers and E.Seed is good for CM + Stored Power sets, and Assault Vest is good on Regenerator Sp Def. sets for spreading Knock Off and spamming Psychic Noise to wear down teams.
Psychic Noise is slightly worse for wallbreaking due to Covert Cloak being more widely run, but it doesn’t care if it’s running Knock Off, and it’s still got Psyshock, a huge net win for Reunlicus.
It also enjoys Sand getting a bump with Torkoal’s exit, as it fits comfortably on Sand teams, while also not taking chip against them,
A+ Pokemon, for sure. Would be S-tier if it weren’t slightly slower than the best mon in the tier, which is…


Hatterene.

The new and only S tier.
Best mon of the meta.
Fast.
Strong.
Infinite tools.
Infinitely versatile.
It doesn’t immediately reveal its set.
Games will be won and lost by Hat dittos, and when and how you chose to play your Hat.

Hatterene was already strong in the Tork+Glas+Power/Ball meta, but the surrounding environment is even more beneficial to it. It doesn’t have to worry about being speed crept by Power/Ball, and it can run items now. That’s huge.

Why wouldn’t you want Hat on your team? It has tools to do almost anything you need, and the meta is actually even more advantageous to it with Torkoal and Power/Ball gone.

Let us count the roles it can provide for you.

• Hazard control
• Taunt control
• Phazing control
• Anti-Defog Screen control
• Life Orb cleaner, physical or special with either Calm Mind or Swords Dance
• Psychic Noise wallbreaker
• Psyshock wallbreaker
• Trick + Specs wallbreaker
• Trick + Band wallbreaker
• Future Sight pressure/breaking
• Surprise Speed IVs Trick Room sweeper
• Sash + Speed IVs Trick Room lead w/ Misty Explosion or Healing Wish
• Dual screens lead w/ Misty Explosion or Healing Wish
• Healing Wish cleric
• 4-Attack Assault Vest
• Imprison Anti-Hatter

It may have lost its role as a Curse check without Power/Ball, but other things can do that better now, anyway.

Thankfully, despite being fast, its physical bulk is really, really bad for the tier, so it is very vulnerable to non-Fighting physical priority. So, if anything has to be the King… Queen of the OM, I’m actually glad it’s Hat. It should be strong but manageable, with one pending exception which on a hunch, I think might require another quickban down the road.

Regarding the freed Ubers, it’s kind of a wash for Hat, While it doesn’t exactly want to hard switch on its Ghost STABs, Hat can threaten Giratina immensely with its own Fairy STAB, and can bounce back burns and phazing attempts for some daring plays. Hat is greatly threatened by Zac-C and Zam-C, who are also Trick Scarf immune, but it also outspeeds both and hits them hard with Mystical Fire. It can also enable them both by setting Trick Room for them and getting them in safely with its self KOing moves.

Prepare for Hatterene in the builder, if you can. Here’s how you can try:

Good Hat/Reun checks, same as before. Glowking hates Psyshock sets though, so Kanto-King might actually be more consistent.

Dirge will miss its role spin blocking Torkoal but and still hate Psychic Noise but otherwise, still solid as a Hat and Curse check and Torch Song breaker. It also checks the Zacians and Zam-C too.

I’m gonna give Armarouge special mention, as it’s a self-setting offensive Trick Roomer resists Hats STABs, is immune to Mystical Fire and that farms it for sweeping opportunities. Chandelure can pull a similar trick, while taking more damage from Psychic moves.

The VGC cat has a great defensive typing and bulk to check Hat, spread Knock Off on its team and pivot around. Intimidate its less impactful than in standard play, but nice. Incin has access Taunt and a good matchup against most of the Trick Room setters, if you want to basically shut down the whole playstyle in one Pokemon. It also has Fake Out for Sashes and stalling out TR turns.

Muk-A is more important than ever with Hat and Reun and the Grasses rising, and it loves wearing Assault Vest. It’s also the best Pokemon in the tier at spreading Knock Off, as it has Poison STAB to hit Sticky Hold Hydrapple, Ice Punch for Gliscor, on top of Posioning things with Poison Touch. It can also sustain itself well with Drain Punch.
If you opt to forgo AV, Muk has access to Curse, and like Incin, Taunt along with a good MU into most Trick Room setters. It can potentially OHKO Sash setters with Poison Touch 30% of the time.


Steel types are great at being Hat and Reunclius counters. Most are Mystical Fire weak, except Heatran, Empoleon and Heatproof Bronzong, but most have the bulk to tank a hit and return fire with their Steel STAB. Heck, Heatran, Empoleon and Defiant Kingambit can even get an attack boost off the exchange.
All these guys have varied and cool niches, including Stealth Rockers, Spikers, spinners, walls, pivots, Wish passers, and/or Trick Room setters/abusers.

Sounds like that’s a good amount of counterplay for Hat, right? So why did I call Hat S tier still? Well, one outstanding issue may potentially push Hat a bit too far towards broken, if it isn’t already. IMO.



I discussed this a while ago, but I think Magnet Pull will be a problem when the dust settles. With an Eject Button partner, these guys efficiently enable Hat, and to a slightly lesser degree Reunclius, way too much. All three of the M.Pullers have good speed tiers and either Iron Defense or Curse, which immediately allows them to freely set up on any Steel type minus Gholdengo, or lacking a Shed Shell, or simply eliminate them with Electric STAB, Body Press or Earthquake. It’s very worth noting that Golem-A joins only Chesnaught, Hydrapple and Torterra as being the only Curse abusers who can hit Dondozo with a Super Effective STAB.
They also love holding Air Balloon to work around their 4x Ground immunities on set up sets, if not Band or Specs to just remove the Hat counters quickly, if they have the luxury of pivot moves, like Jirachi, Empoleon, Scizor, Perrserker and Solgaleo can.

With Magnet Pull in the tier, I think Hat is the sole S Tier and best Pokemon in the format. If we see fit to ban Magnet Pull, Hat moves down to a measly S-.

Begun, the Hatterene Meta has.

 

[Lectrys]

Early Impressions of Trick Room

After trying out and observing some Trick Room setters and abusers, these are some (at least halfway decent) Trick Room setter and abuser sets you could be using. I've even used a Semi-Room team to some success on ladder!

OTR

Some Trick Room setters are offensive (ergo, OTR) and can and will spam attacks immediately after setting Trick Room. Shame a lot of them are OHKOed by Kingambit's Sucker Punch and cannot patch that weakness up with Colbur Berry. You'll also find that you need opposing mons chipped in order to sweep with them.


Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Rash Nature
- Trick Room
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off / Superpower
- Extreme Speed

The quintessential OTR lead in Twisted Dimension, Deo-A opens with Trick Room and scares off Taunt leads with the possibility of powerful moves into Extreme Speed taking out their anti-lead anyway. You'd be surprised what this cannot OHKO, though, even with the truck STAB known as Psycho Boost.


Iron Valiant @ Focus Sash
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Vacuum Wave / Knock Off / Destiny Bond

An alternative OTR lead to Deoxys-A if you're sick and tired of getting Sucker Punched and Mach Punched. Iron Valiant has better coverage with its STABs than Deo-A does, potentially leading to more OHKOes and 2HKOes. You'd be surprised how rarely Focus Sash breaks during the Trick Room-setting turn - thus this set having a Speed-dropping nature, as Iron Valiant still has a crazy-high Speed stat with that nature.


Hoopa-Unbound @ Custap Berry
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Brave Nature
- Trick Room
- Hyperspace Fury
- Psychic
- Drain Punch

With high special bulk, Hoopa-U can actually switch into things and set Trick Room. Drain Punch and an Attack-boosting nature are used to maximize the chance of OHKOing Kingambit (assuming you survive the Sucker Punch). Psychic is used to hit physical walls. You can opt for a nature that doesn't drop Speed, but Hoopa-U needs all the bulk it can get.


Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire / Pain Split / Thunderbolt

Flutter Mane uses opposing Fighting attacks to get an opportunity to switch in and use Trick Room. Booster Energy is used to get a Special Attack boost and nerf Knock Off (mainly from Fighting-types). Flutter Mane is still horrifically weak to Sucker Punch despite not being weak to Dark.


Meloetta @ Throat Spray / Colbur Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast / Alluring Voice / Shadow Ball
- Psyshock / Alluring Voice / Shadow Ball

Meloetta actually has decent special bulk and therefore windows to switch in and use Trick Room. Being physically bulkier than Hoopa-U greatly helps against priority. Colbur Berry can be used instead of Throat Spray for Sucker Punch.

Trick Room Setters

With all the flaws OTR mons have in Twisted Dimension, you'll likely be running for dedicated Trick Room setters. In order to get the most out of them, you'll need at least one Trick Room abuser.


Solgaleo @ Colbur Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Full Metal Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Trick Room
- Teleport
- Sunsteel Strike
- Morning Sun

Solgaleo gets the coveted Teleport to go along with Trick Room to slow pivot threats in. Reliable recovery makes this a resilient Trick Room setter. Sunsteel Strike ensures this still checks Hatterene and Crabominable. An alternative, more offensive set can be used to turn Solgaleo into an OTR cleaner, but you'll likely regret the lack of recovery.


Slowking-Galar @ Black Sludge / Colbur Berry / Heavy-Duty Boots / Shuca Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Chilly Reception
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast / Future Sight / Ice Beam / Surf

An alternative take to slow pivoting threats in, Slowking-G is among the least obvious Trick Room setters, so you can better disguise a Semi-Room team as a bulky offence team. Slowking-G has min. Speed as a result. Sludge Bomb ensures this still checks Hatterene.


Slowking @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots / Colbur Berry / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Chilly Reception
- Scald
- Psychic Noise

The obvious side-grade to Slowking-G that checks different threats such as Crabominable and Avalugg.


Deoxys-Defense @ Colbur Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Trick Room
- Teleport
- Recover
- Fire Punch / Night Shade

An alternative to defensive Solgaleo if you're sick of your dedicated Trick Room setter being weak to Ground and Fire.


Indeedee @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Encore
- Healing Wish
- Psychic Noise / Hyper Voice / Dazzling Gleam

Sick and tired of priority such as Sucker Punch? This is the dedicated Trick Room setter for you. Encore grants opportunities to use Trick Room and is a move the similar Indeedee-F doesn't get.


Mimikyu @ Red Card / Mental Herb
Ability: Disguise
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Trick Room
- Curse
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak

A virtually guaranteed Trick Room, especially with Mental Herb, can be very nice to have! Ghost Curse lets Mimikyu have good odds to KO itself and slow pivot an abuser in that way - the massive chip helps. Shadow Sneak can be used as team-cleaning priority.


Cresselia @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance
- Moonlight
- Moonblast / Ice Beam / Psychic / Future Sight

This is the dedicated Trick Room setter for you if you're into the PP-restoring Healing Wish known as Lunar Dance.

Trick Room Abusers

What do dedicated Trick Room setters pair best with? Trick Room abusers, of course! You'll want wall-shattering power with your TR abusers, so you won't want high Speed, but high offences.


Urshifu @ Black Glasses
Ability: Unseen Fist
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Wicked Blow
- Close Combat
- U-turn / Poison Jab

This takes advantage of the best Fairy-type in the meta being Hatterene, a mon neutral to Dark. Urshifu takes Dark attacks well and dishes out the hurt. Pairs well with Solgaleo and Deoxys-D, who attract Ghost- and Dark-types. U-turn is handy for pivoting that TR setter back in.


Palafin @ Expert Belt
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Brave Nature
- Jet Punch
- Wave Crash
- Ice Punch
- Grass Knot

The power of an Uber. The bulk of some Ubers. The 120-BP STAB worthy of an Uber. Lead with Palafin, and victory is well on its way. This set lures Dondozo and maximizes the chance that Wave Crash into Grass Knot 2HKOes it. Pairs well with Slowking-G to clear out non-Snow weathers.


Chi-Yu @ Eject Pack
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Overheat

An unholy powerful special attacker - among the most powerful legal in Twisted Dimension. Overheat is useful as Trick Room turns are about to end, and Eject Pack lets you pivot with the first Overheat. Pairs well with Slowking, who attracts Grass-types.


Zacian @ Life Orb
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Crunch / Quick Attack

We freed Zacian - of course we'll let you play with it. Zacian OHKOes deceptively few mons in this meta, but it forces a lot of switches while Trick Room is up. Wild Charge dents Dondozo hard. Crunch smacks Skeledirge. Quick Attack cleans mons outside of Trick Room.


Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Behemoth Blade / Play Rough
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Crunch / Quick Attack / Play Rough

Zacian-C is almighty powerful but still OHKOes deceptively few mons. This time, it attracts Fire-types instead of Steel-types. Wild Charge barely 3HKOes Dondozo. Crunch barely 2HKOes Skeledirge.

Trick Room Semi-Abusers

Some mons in this meta are viable outside of Trick Room but greatly take advantage of Trick Room turns. These are crucial lynchpins of a Semi-Room team.


Landorus-Therian @ Soft Sand
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

A useful physically defensive pivot outside of Trick Room, a devastating attacker within it. This set outspeeds all Solgaleo outside of Trick Room, but you can opt for more Speed if you want.


Walking Wake @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Flip Turn
- Flamethrower

This was better back when Torkoal was legal, but this is still a useful special attacker and Dondozo switch-in. This AV set also switches into Camerupt well.


Raging Bolt @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Thunderclap
- Volt Switch
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt

A decent revenge killer, but thudding into Ground-types is nasty. Draco Meteor ensures Ground-types regret staying in, though, even if they KO back.


Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flip Turn
- Shadow Ball / Luster Purge / Surf / Aura Sphere
- Trick

A useful pivot and Scarf Trick user outside of Trick Room, an OK cleaner within it. This switches into Camerupt and Dondozo well enough, and the Ground immunity is great.


Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Crunch / Roar
- Behemoth Bash / Roar

A shockingly good defensive tank outside of Trick Room, a nasty cleaner within it. Crunch deals with Ghosts such as Gholdengo and Skeledirge. Beware: opposing Zamazenta-C can use the exact same Speed as this set as an anti-Trick Room measure.

 

[mayonnaise. mayo.]

The metagame is morphing into such an unpredictable mess and I love it.

 

[MasterPlayer]

Not to put a one-liner, but don't Bronzong and Copperajah like outspeed 3 Magnet Pull users? Also I'm pretty sure Copperajah learns Curse, so it can potentially brute force it's way through the Magnet Pull mons and pop their Air Balloon before they can do anything

 

[donkkut]

Alright we need to talk about bloona
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon (M) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Mind's Eye
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Blood Moon
- Earth Power
- Hammer Arm
- Moonlight
This mon just eats hits, clicks hammer arm, deletes something with blood moon, and then heals itself for another round. There is a a very notable lack of defensive counterplay to this mon given that mind's eye normal + ground is practically impossible to resist, but what makes it even worse is the fact that it can also beat the offensive check through hammer arm speed drops, which it can very easily find an opportunity to use since it has tremendous bulk + moonlight recovery.
Although base 52 is not blazing fast, at -1 speed it gets the jump on base 35 pokémon such as(who can lose the 1v1) and at -2 it's faster than and .
And this is all without mentioning the immense set variety that can allow this mon to change its matchups at a whim. Calm Mind is even more unstoppable offensively, resists berries allow it to unpredictably flip matchups() and get surprise kos that can end a game, + defensive investment makes it very annoying to knock out, have incredible breaking power and patches up one of its few downsides(relatively low spdef).
As far as checks go, a lot of it is very specific and exploitable with solid play(), but time will tell if mons such as will be able to slow it down or if this bear will need to get the ban hammer(arm).

Aside from luna i also want to point out that is a monster and all of the slow twins are very versatile threats that hopefully will see very interesting development.

 

[tezcatus]

Clodsire Set

Clodsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware/Water Absorb
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Gunk Shot
- Recover
- Curse

Clodsire is pretty underrated imo. I don't see a lotta people using clod even though it is very good in the meta rn. People generally expect clod to come and just sit there taking special attacks, that's why Curse Clodsire catches them off guard. Unaware is pretty neat as unaware sweepers are almost always appreciated. Water absorb could be used for Dondozo but isn't recommended since all the dozo generally run Unaware.

 

[Sawkasm]

Psy-Spam is pretty neat rn

 

[VannAccessible]

New Tier Resource

Early Viability Rankings are up! Pineco and Zacian-Crowned tiered at the same level in a meta. You can’t make this stuff up.

This is a work in progress, so feel free to point out anything missing (this meta is madness, I’m sure I did), or debate where it’s off and what things you think should rise and fall as the meta develops.

Here’s the logic on some of the takes:

As I was ranting earlier, Hat sits at top tier of the format. It has checks, but it has plenty of options to mess with or disable them.

Examples:
CM + Psyshock beats Glowking.
Psychic Noise beats Blissey, lacking Cloak.
Trick Specs disables Slowking, Muk-A, Garg, Tyranitar and other Specially Defense invested switch ins.
Specs Mystical Fire beats Steels, including the Trick immune Gholdengo, Zac-C and Zam-C.
Physical Swords Dance sets can catch players off guard, beating all its special def checks.
Ect. Hat can does what it wants. I don’t see why you couldn’t run it along side Reuniclus to overload Psychic checks.
Edit: Sawkasm Ha! Ninja’d!

I kinda went back and forth on putting Conkeldurr in top tier with Hat, but decided not to, as it has more reliable counterplay. Guts sets are strong, but prone to stalling while other sets have more longevity, but lack breaking power. Conk is also not nearly as versatile as Hat. However, it’s the also possibly the most immediately threatening thing in the meta. A lot of the time it doesn’t even need a Curse to get going given how spammable Hammer Arm + Knock Off is. It can also be an offensive Defogger than can handle Dengo with Knock/EQ, which can catch people off guard. Taunt stops hazards and all the gimmicks, and shuts down defense. Priority will never not be handy, even in a meta as Curse heavy and bulky as this, Mach Punch is a great tool.
I think it’ll be more limited as people learn how good Defensive Toxapex, Weezing-A Enamorus, Colbur Sinistcha / Dengo are though, and I think RH Endure Garchomp has merit. Hex on Colbur Giratina is nice for it too, and it blocks Hammer Arm snowballing.
Still, Conk is prob Number 2 Mon of the format.

Abomasnow got the biggest buff with Torkoal’s ban, going straight from unviable to amazing. Snow is the best weather now as it sets screens and enables scary threats like Avalugg and Crabominable. Our new Defogger Girantina does not enjoy trying to Defog against all the Ice spam Snow teams come with. Light Clay still might be worth looking at later.
I think Abomasnow getting better justifies Kingambit running Brick Break as its Fighting overage over Low Kick, and gives Solgaleo and Okidogi new niches with Psychic Fangs.
I think Snow permits Glaceon and Kyruem to explore niches with their access to Freeze Dry, letting them break balance cores. Also, we kinda of forgot Eiscue exists. Physical attack immunity, Belly Drum AND speed? That’s…troublesome. :o

Samurott-Hisui I knocked Sam-I-Am down a peg, due to the Power/Ball ban making HDB more runnable and Spikes less strong. Plus we got our new tier Defogger. Still, Sam is good, despite being slow and having pretty bad bulk. Spikes are just good and being able to set them up on Hat is really useful.

High and good tier is the meta stables. So many great options. The meta is really diverse.

These two good boys reside in good tier, for now. Despite their low speed, their bulk and typings are more than respectable, and they represent rare counterplay to Trick, Knock Off (Gliscor is pretty mid) and stopping Muk-A from making progress, who switches in freely on the best mon of the format. They love eating Wishes from Alomomola or Grassy Terrain support, as they lack any recovery besides Rest. Zam-C checks non-Dondozo Curse and both are very scary in Trick Room, and their defensive typings pair well with the Psychics and Ghosts who are TR setters.

Mid is full of Curse users and Belly Drummers that thud into Dondozo, awkward mid-speed mons and kinda meh TR mons. Gallade is kinda cool though, Sacred Sword+Sharpness cuts through Curse def boosts.

I would love to see this guy move up from Mid, but exactly zero people have tried him yet. Please make Belli relevant, somebody. Soak seems fun and its speed is nice.

Apparently, these guys are relevant for having the fastest Haze? A locking things into non-damaging moves, Water and Electric moves with fast Encore? Kinda neat.

Low tier consists of gimmicks like self-Sticky Web, Endeavor Sash Solosis, non-self setting Trick Room reliant mons lacking bulk. No Sunflora. *sobs*



RIP
Dec 1, 2024 - Dec 6, 2024
“In our hearts, forever. While he was only with us a short time, he enjoyed his time in the sun.” <3

 

[Lectrys]

Personal disagreements with the early VR:

for Good instead of Mid: It turns out that a lot of teams need a Fairy that actually resists Dark, can tank some hits, and pass Wishes or Knock Off items. Clefable being in the same super-tier as the very mid spinner Coalossal, the extraordinarily slow Chandelure, and nearly every Trick Room abuser doesn't feel right.

for Good instead of Mid: Same deal for Lando-T: it turns out that a lot of teams need a Ground-immune mon that tanks at least 2 hits, actually breaks Zama-C (unlike Gliscor), sets Stealth Rock, and pivots. Being vulnerable to Ice-types sucks for a physically defensive mon, but it isn't the end of the world. When I'm using hazard removal not named Donphan, Lando-T often ends up getting sneaked in to patch up defensive holes, and it consistently puts in work.

for Mid instead of Good: Iron Treads felt like Great Tusk when I tested it - a crummy speed tier dooms its chances of Rapid Spinning, especially when combined with its lackluster bulk compared to Great Tusk and its several weaknesses. Being a pivot was not enough to compensate for being worse at removing hazards and/or sweeping than Donphan (which is the best of the 3 elephants, IMO). Donphan is one super-tier higher than Treads, IMO, and looking at the rest of Good, it's Treads that needs to plunge.

 

[VannAccessible]

Personal disagreements with the early VR:

for Good instead of Mid: It turns out that a lot of teams need a Fairy that actually resists Dark, can tank some hits, and pass Wishes or Knock Off items. Clefable being in the same super-tier as the very mid spinner Coalossal, the extraordinarily slow Chandelure, and nearly every Trick Room abuser doesn't feel right.

for Good instead of Mid: Same deal for Lando-T: it turns out that a lot of teams need a Ground-immune mon that tanks at least 2 hits, actually breaks Zama-C (unlike Gliscor), sets Stealth Rock, and pivots. Being vulnerable to Ice-types sucks for a physically defensive mon, but it isn't the end of the world. When I'm using hazard removal not named Donphan, Lando-T often ends up getting sneaked in to patch up defensive holes, and it consistently puts in work.

for Mid instead of Good: Iron Treads felt like Great Tusk when I tested it - a crummy speed tier dooms its chances of Rapid Spinning, especially when combined with its lackluster bulk compared to Great Tusk and its several weaknesses. Being a pivot was not enough to compensate for being worse at removing hazards and/or sweeping than Donphan (which is the best of the 3 elephants, IMO). Donphan is one super-tier higher than Treads, IMO, and looking at the rest of Good, it's Treads that needs to plunge.

Fair points across the board, I’ll edit the VR accordingly.

Also adding Garchomp. I think the RH TankChomp set is relevant. With Endure, it puts the Guts guys and Curse mons lacking recovery on a short timer. It’s also got hazards, Ground STAB Hat is uncomfortable switching in on, and Roar lets it phaze while also pivoting if Hat switches in. It also spinblocks the weakened dudes. That’s some Good tier sauce, right thar, IMO

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

First to 1600. VR / resources seem pretty bloated imo but whatever its all in fun. I do want to address the consequences of banning Iron Ball and co so early. The main issue is that speed tiers are set in stone, and there's now very limited picks for super slow pokes to outspeed Curse sweepers, especially mid-Speed Curse sweepers like Ursaluna. That also brings up the other issue of removing Iron Ball, in that now super slow picks + Curse sweepers have access to their full potential with their best items. Maybe we can look at bringing these speed control items back in the future.

Ursaluna is now slower than base 35 Pokemon like Dondozo and Garganacl at -1. More so, it can afford to run Flame Orb and absolutely deck everything with its boosted coverage. If it were to get to -2 through the use of either Curse or Hammer Arm, then it'll even slower than Slowbro, Slowking, and Hatterene, making most teams conventional forms of specially offensive revenge killers unviable. I think its clear that without Iron Ball, Ursuluna is too powerful.

In comparison, Conkeldurr is slower than Ursaluna and gets STAB Hammer Arm. That makes it just as dangerous as a Curse + Hammer Arm sweeper, and its lower Speed tier lets it speed tie Hatterene at -1. That's crazy given that it can Hammer Arm on the Slowbro switch-in then outspeed and hit it with Knock Off. Too good, and again all possible because of the lack of Iron Ball.

At the very good base 20 Speed, Greedant can now run Belly Drum with Sitrus Berry + Cheek Pouch to get back to full health and have virtually zero revenge killers. This is great given it has perfect coverage in Double Edge, Knock Off, and Earthquake. Really once it has a decent enough setup window, the only things stopping it are Unaware walls like Dondozo, very niche revenge killer options like Life Orb Super Power Trapinch, or what's most likely: chip damage from entry hazards combined with Double Edge and Rocky Helmet recoil. Pretty powerful.

The Ubers released have all been pretty mediocre and have a hard time getting in. With Wish support, I think something like Four Attacks Zacian-Crowned could be a cool bulky attacker that can force trades, but it's still going to succumb to all the powerful curse sweepers.

Zacian-Crowned in the back

https://pokepast.es/dd4fdce05a64773f

This team is like a semi-stall that, ideally, can use one of the three pivots to get Zacian Crowned in to do some serious damage. Unfortunately, this combo doesn't actually see much play, as instead the influx of Curse sweepers means that most of the time the defensive core just tries to survive, and they use Zacian's strong coverage to trade a hit or two before going down for good. This works best against the likes of Calm Mind Hatterene, Nasty Plot Slowking, and most unboosted threats like Crabominable and Hydrapple.

Belly Drum Greedant Balance

https://pokepast.es/29b9cb7bc7e70b36

A rework of an old team, Greedant has a decent chance as a cleaner, or at least as a revenge killer, with the help of an entry hazard-centric defensive core. This team also relies on Choice Scarf Trick Galarian Slowking to take the brunt of checking special attackers, although Chople Berry Copperajah can help too. Otherwise, it's just about winning the hazard game until you can eventually sweep with either Greedant / Dondozo or, if the opposing Dondozo is kept around, Sinistcha.

I mean whatever I guess

https://pokepast.es/d4fb18e191ef3085

yup like nothing crazy to comment here. Use Conk first so you can Knock Off + Taunt the Dondozo and it'll probably lose to Ursaluna later.

P.S. edit: Run Assault Vest on Hatterene. Tis best as a revenge killer because of its coveted base 29 Speed tier, so you want 4 attacks most of the time anyways. Assault Vest is perfect for the mirror, and twill also means you can check +2 Slowbro / Slowking.

 

[solrock the great]

yo chat we have some art for the op now! just ignore that torkoal is banned, its not like every single om always has perfectly viable mons on the op art, afterall

credit goes to RavioliQueen for the art btw

 

[sojukirin]

pretty new to this but this set looks kinda skibidi:


Skeledirge @ Throat Spray
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball
- Earth Power
- Slack Off

 

[VannAccessible]

I love the banner. It’s hilarious, and it captures the essence of this silly OM well. Too bad Torkoal couldn’t live to see it. Thanks again, RavioliQueen!

———

We’re going to get a Tier Survey up later this week so we can get some input on the new meta and what we want to address in the next Council Vote.

———

I updated the samples with the teams you’ve offered for the new meta. I also updated my Rain Team from the Torkoal + Iron/Ball meta.


Adaptability Rain Offense by VannAccessible

Team Explanation

This is a pocket semi-TR team. Rain is even better now that Torkoal isn’t around to contest the weather.

Peli’s Speed IVs let it slow pivot out outside TR and be fast inside TR. Damp Rock is chosen for birb for max rain turns. Surf is chosen for Water STAB over the slightly stronger Weather Ball, so Tyranitar and Hippo still get chunked on switch in.

Hat and Utility Conk cover its SR weakness together, while being great speed control, and breaking down fat together. Hat is pocket Trick Room+Boom since Pelipper’s speed is rather slow for the meta, and I didn’t want to use memey super quick breakers like the 1-dimensional Dewspider, who thuds into WA Clodsire and Hydrapple and Wake. Instead, I went with Crawdaunt and Basculegion as the breakers. I like Misty Explosion over Healing Wish because Substitute, and I don’t want to heal Conk’s burn. Hat appriciates all the Waters and Conk it can fall back on to beat Steel types, so it also has the option to clean end game too.

Water STAB+Adaptability+Rain+Choice items are stupid strong and spammable, and their secondary STABs let them roll straight through pretty much any water resist or immunity, including Don, Pex, Amoongus, Slowbro/king, Clod, Vaporeon, Giratina, Walking Wake and Hydrapple even if rain is down.
Crawdaunt is Band+Switcheroo+Crunch so it can break Hydrapple, and I have two other Knock Off users in Peli and Conk anyway. Switcheroo lets it ruin Curse user switch ins like Dondozo. Aqua Jet lets it be fast outside TR and clean up games.

Basc can pivot and is fast in TR. It loves switching in on Dondozo and Slowbro outside TR since they can’t do much to it. The speed IVs let it guarantee outspeed Dengo inside TR, which is a common Hat switch in, but outspeed Giratina without TR. PsyFangs is mostly filler, but lets it chunk Clodsire if you don’t want to lock into Shadow Ball, while also being an option to remove screens if Conk can’t Defog.

Sp Def Clodsire is here for Rocks, absorb T. Spikes, and to stop Electrics and opposing Water from rolling the team. Fast Haze lets it keep Curse from getting out of control. Payapa Berry lets it be more brazen against Hat and chip or kill it with Poison Jab.

The team’s biggest weakness is Rillaboom and Kingambit, who don’t mind TR, in which case, conserve Conk and Pelliper so you can Hurricane / Surf / Hammer them.

Edit: I swapped out Hat for Solgaleo, as its role as a hazard control um has been well adapted to by the meta, and Leo is simply a much more consistent Trick Room setter, able to set 2-3 times per game and Teleport to get I’m in safely. This allows the Water mons to make progress much more easily. To offset this, Conk is now boots so it can clear hazard span more easily.

 

[Togedemaru]

Slowking @ Light Clay
Ability: Regenerator/Oblivious
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Scald/Future Sight/Thunder Wave
- Chilly Reception

Grimmsnarl might be the preferred Screen Setter, but it can still function greatly. With Regenerator, you can set screens over and over. With Oblivious, you are immune to getting taunted allowing you set screens easily. Both of which Grimmsnarl does not have. Scald burns and Thunder Wave can punish set-up sweepers trying to set-up in front of its face. Chilly Reception is simply for pivoting out.