Sure... may as well, tired asf rn
My answers
Enjoyment - 8 or 9, idfk i think the meta aside from jolteon spam and prep this tour was fun and playing casually is even more interesting but jolteon is suffering lol.
Comp - 8, jolteon is annoying, some stuff you have to spend a lot of time and be like "fuck this, we are not covering everything" (usually happens regardless in most tiers to an extent). And in general it feels the tier is prob fine, just also the fact that a lot of subs are weak is frustrating a bit. Out of "id rather attend a shitty lecture" to "This is the best games of mons of my life" its a "I would play this again, complain about it a bit, and prob play it again" which is good enough
The pokemon:
Cinderace: 1 - this mon is just generally good, idt its ever shown a bit of broken performance, also it kinda wants a lot of moves and cant fit all of them. Without HJK ur walled by heatran, without gunk shot milo eats u alive, without u-turn u kinda cant pivot in and out, without a utility move you can kinda find urself harder to justify, and sd is only good into teams when their fire resist isnt some fat fire resist and also heavily relies on surprise factor... it doesnt do so well when u reveal it and they know what ur cind is. Why is this on sheet?
Gouging Fire: 2 - its very threatening with its many sets, i even screwed around with d tail a bit and it can work but u sacrifice a decent amount esp without tera, its still very scary and can often times beat its counters or just outlast them thanks to rekindle and crippling potential counterplay. Dont think its broken, if it sacrifices one option to beat smth else it often sacrifices smth even greater in return
Iron Moth: 2 (1 previously) - its good, idt its broken or in any way warrants tiering action. good on terrain and good with booster energy on more offensive teams and i think its plenty viable but id rather not have any tiering action. Grassy terrain its very good on and on sand it makes a potent M beam sweeper, dont think its anything to worry about
Jolteon: 4 - very strong, round just clicks shit and accumulates dmg, signal beam cripples a lot of counterplay (regen, poison heal, ting lu vessel of ruin) and is just generally way to fast for many teams to jsut naturally check it, it can also just play the long game esp since many scarfers are meh in this tier, gholdengo is good and can block round but saw minimal usage this tour and often people opted for zama-h, dragapult, or just booster energy mons
Ogerpon-HF: 1 - rocks weak, has to predict pretty heavily esp since being forced out accumulates chip dmg often and many mons can take a hit or two even smth like pult can switch in and scare it out, zama-h can come in and force it out, iron moth can come in -> force it out... so yeah, good mon idt its warranting tiering action
Ogerpon-Wellspring: 2 or 3 - meh, its very good but generally jolteon is a big enabler as well, without it being able to freely pivot it in via round it cant just abuse free turns like that, outside of jolteon ogerpon-wellspring isnt really putting up good numbers outside of them and while good and potentially worthy of tiering action since it can smoke a lot of stuff esp with grass / water coverage and with SD also being a potential set that can just nuke stuff like skarm, mage, fez, mandi, etc whlie water absorb is amazing utility against wash away mons.
Weavile: 2 - there was green eye discussion, weavile's ability to force progress, and in general being abel to shit out spikes and knock for other teammates is amazing it often gets shit on by stuff like milo, magearna, skarm, crab, mola, etc. I think despite its bad win rate it doesnt really mean much... I think its still really good despite it
G terrain: 3 (1 or 2 before) - Iron hands is very good, it is prob the sole reason I put 3, i explained it underneath but generally this mon trades super well into everything and with sp. def investment even stuff that should beat it doesnt really like iron valiant can lose to iron hands if it even takes any form of chip dmg thanks to drain -> thunder punch ko'ing it while moonblast caps at 78 against a max sp. def hands while smth like roaring moon has to worry even more as drain punch heals back like 80% of the dmg u just did to it. I think it def can be looked atneeds more exploration... was used in 2 games by xrn and generally did ok but its hard to say with a small sample size to consider it. I think it cna potentially show that terrain teams are very strong as before but rn... doubt it
H waste: to be honest.. idk - there are things with h waste, one is fez being a good abuser, but also the fact that the move generally sees minimal use outside of it cuz the mons it sees use on are generally meh .. like pecharunt didnt see any usage, muk saw 2 uses, and fez got 4 which is ok but its prob cuz of healing stones and its amazing utility consideirng most steels wall it.
H Stones: 2 - irritating and often just MU fishy... vs spikes teams it can often suffocate such teams because they often rely on shelter to get rid of it or have to get rid of their own h stones... but against defog, wash away, court change it is kinda meh... and shaymin, fez mainly are just good users but generally I feel like H stone teams are inconsistent at times
Wash away: 4 - outside of 2 or 3 counters which are muk, ogerpon-w and more niche counters like volcanion, clodsire, or using phazing moves to counter them is just generally fishy... and it can often make it so rockers cant get rocks up esp most of them like alo, primarina, dondozo, pex, are just able to shit on most rockers and make their life pain. I think if ogerpon-w ever got worse then we would nerf wash away... and i feel relying on "well if u dont face ogerpon-w then it will be super strong!" isnt very fun nor fun to prep for and account
Potential unbans:
- Urshifu-rs: generally has a lot more counterplay, no tera, and also has to deal with milo, crab, prim, phys def mage, fast fighters, wisp pult, spikes, an awkward speed tier potentially makes it retest worthy
- what we did to rain and potentially figure out wtf we want to do with it, we banned intel, archaludon, damp rock, and raging bolt pre PMPl for it so i feel its worth to figure out what should be done
Other comments:
- buff weak subs... like revavroom star shards, muscle memory, parry, big root, y shard, sand veil / sunblock, decid, decid-h, krookodile, bramble, lax. Many are just very weak and generally is sad to see some people have subs that never see the day of light in a tier ... buffs can help them potentially even see slight niches
** GREEN EYE! this can take advantage of so much shit. You wear smth down? it cant recover cuz u steal it, last mon trying to make smth happen? well u steal that boost either a dd, sd, calm mind, or smth. Hazards? well not that big of a deal cuz the reward isnt huge compared to the risk some of them take
**** btw... zama-c test maybe down the line after everything? sounds bs and it might be but like ... it was tested in SS OU and maybe in vape ou it might be baalnced? prob the last thing after everything is done tho and even then it might be broken
** ANOTHER EDIT (sep 8th) - Iron hands.. iron hands is very very fat for a mon and can often trade 1 for 1 quite easily into anything and with max sp. def (or max hp) it can take a beating from many mons and with its typing and grassy terrain this means that it often is quite synergetic and is very hard to act break with mons considering healing stones, terrain, 1/2 from eq all adds up and makes it so teams often have to rely on smth like sacking a mon and revenge killing it cuz it can often take a shit on many def mons... even stuff it should lose to wisp pult it at least forces a trade and like a lot of pult's hp esp if it took any dmg before hand ... you either die into G terrain or dont because iron hands can apply a shit ton of pressure and can often recover out of range quite quickly with stones, terrain, drain punch recovery, and being hard to wear down thanks to punching glove giving a significant power boost and no contact. Proposal: idfk, it's prob balanced. Dunno it got like 2 uses by xrn
fun post at like 1;20 am
My answers
Enjoyment - 8 or 9, idfk i think the meta aside from jolteon spam and prep this tour was fun and playing casually is even more interesting but jolteon is suffering lol.
Comp - 8, jolteon is annoying, some stuff you have to spend a lot of time and be like "fuck this, we are not covering everything" (usually happens regardless in most tiers to an extent). And in general it feels the tier is prob fine, just also the fact that a lot of subs are weak is frustrating a bit. Out of "id rather attend a shitty lecture" to "This is the best games of mons of my life" its a "I would play this again, complain about it a bit, and prob play it again" which is good enough
The pokemon:
Cinderace: 1 - this mon is just generally good, idt its ever shown a bit of broken performance, also it kinda wants a lot of moves and cant fit all of them. Without HJK ur walled by heatran, without gunk shot milo eats u alive, without u-turn u kinda cant pivot in and out, without a utility move you can kinda find urself harder to justify, and sd is only good into teams when their fire resist isnt some fat fire resist and also heavily relies on surprise factor... it doesnt do so well when u reveal it and they know what ur cind is. Why is this on sheet?
Gouging Fire: 2 - its very threatening with its many sets, i even screwed around with d tail a bit and it can work but u sacrifice a decent amount esp without tera, its still very scary and can often times beat its counters or just outlast them thanks to rekindle and crippling potential counterplay. Dont think its broken, if it sacrifices one option to beat smth else it often sacrifices smth even greater in return
Iron Moth: 2 (1 previously) - its good, idt its broken or in any way warrants tiering action. good on terrain and good with booster energy on more offensive teams and i think its plenty viable but id rather not have any tiering action. Grassy terrain its very good on and on sand it makes a potent M beam sweeper, dont think its anything to worry about
Jolteon: 4 - very strong, round just clicks shit and accumulates dmg, signal beam cripples a lot of counterplay (regen, poison heal, ting lu vessel of ruin) and is just generally way to fast for many teams to jsut naturally check it, it can also just play the long game esp since many scarfers are meh in this tier, gholdengo is good and can block round but saw minimal usage this tour and often people opted for zama-h, dragapult, or just booster energy mons
Ogerpon-HF: 1 - rocks weak, has to predict pretty heavily esp since being forced out accumulates chip dmg often and many mons can take a hit or two even smth like pult can switch in and scare it out, zama-h can come in and force it out, iron moth can come in -> force it out... so yeah, good mon idt its warranting tiering action
Ogerpon-Wellspring: 2 or 3 - meh, its very good but generally jolteon is a big enabler as well, without it being able to freely pivot it in via round it cant just abuse free turns like that, outside of jolteon ogerpon-wellspring isnt really putting up good numbers outside of them and while good and potentially worthy of tiering action since it can smoke a lot of stuff esp with grass / water coverage and with SD also being a potential set that can just nuke stuff like skarm, mage, fez, mandi, etc whlie water absorb is amazing utility against wash away mons.
Weavile: 2 - there was green eye discussion, weavile's ability to force progress, and in general being abel to shit out spikes and knock for other teammates is amazing it often gets shit on by stuff like milo, magearna, skarm, crab, mola, etc. I think despite its bad win rate it doesnt really mean much... I think its still really good despite it
G terrain: 3 (1 or 2 before) - Iron hands is very good, it is prob the sole reason I put 3, i explained it underneath but generally this mon trades super well into everything and with sp. def investment even stuff that should beat it doesnt really like iron valiant can lose to iron hands if it even takes any form of chip dmg thanks to drain -> thunder punch ko'ing it while moonblast caps at 78 against a max sp. def hands while smth like roaring moon has to worry even more as drain punch heals back like 80% of the dmg u just did to it. I think it def can be looked at
H waste: to be honest.. idk - there are things with h waste, one is fez being a good abuser, but also the fact that the move generally sees minimal use outside of it cuz the mons it sees use on are generally meh .. like pecharunt didnt see any usage, muk saw 2 uses, and fez got 4 which is ok but its prob cuz of healing stones and its amazing utility consideirng most steels wall it.
H Stones: 2 - irritating and often just MU fishy... vs spikes teams it can often suffocate such teams because they often rely on shelter to get rid of it or have to get rid of their own h stones... but against defog, wash away, court change it is kinda meh... and shaymin, fez mainly are just good users but generally I feel like H stone teams are inconsistent at times
Wash away: 4 - outside of 2 or 3 counters which are muk, ogerpon-w and more niche counters like volcanion, clodsire, or using phazing moves to counter them is just generally fishy... and it can often make it so rockers cant get rocks up esp most of them like alo, primarina, dondozo, pex, are just able to shit on most rockers and make their life pain. I think if ogerpon-w ever got worse then we would nerf wash away... and i feel relying on "well if u dont face ogerpon-w then it will be super strong!" isnt very fun nor fun to prep for and account
Potential unbans:
- Urshifu-rs: generally has a lot more counterplay, no tera, and also has to deal with milo, crab, prim, phys def mage, fast fighters, wisp pult, spikes, an awkward speed tier potentially makes it retest worthy
- what we did to rain and potentially figure out wtf we want to do with it, we banned intel, archaludon, damp rock, and raging bolt pre PMPl for it so i feel its worth to figure out what should be done
Other comments:
- buff weak subs... like revavroom star shards, muscle memory, parry, big root, y shard, sand veil / sunblock, decid, decid-h, krookodile, bramble, lax. Many are just very weak and generally is sad to see some people have subs that never see the day of light in a tier ... buffs can help them potentially even see slight niches
** GREEN EYE! this can take advantage of so much shit. You wear smth down? it cant recover cuz u steal it, last mon trying to make smth happen? well u steal that boost either a dd, sd, calm mind, or smth. Hazards? well not that big of a deal cuz the reward isnt huge compared to the risk some of them take
**** btw... zama-c test maybe down the line after everything? sounds bs and it might be but like ... it was tested in SS OU and maybe in vape ou it might be baalnced? prob the last thing after everything is done tho and even then it might be broken
** ANOTHER EDIT (sep 8th) - Iron hands.. iron hands is very very fat for a mon and can often trade 1 for 1 quite easily into anything and with max sp. def (or max hp) it can take a beating from many mons and with its typing and grassy terrain this means that it often is quite synergetic and is very hard to act break with mons considering healing stones, terrain, 1/2 from eq all adds up and makes it so teams often have to rely on smth like sacking a mon and revenge killing it cuz it can often take a shit on many def mons... even stuff it should lose to wisp pult it at least forces a trade and like a lot of pult's hp esp if it took any dmg before hand ... you either die into G terrain or dont because iron hands can apply a shit ton of pressure and can often recover out of range quite quickly with stones, terrain, drain punch recovery, and being hard to wear down thanks to punching glove giving a significant power boost and no contact. Proposal: idfk, it's prob balanced. Dunno it got like 2 uses by xrn
fun post at like 1;20 am
Last edited:
Jolteon,
Wash Away,
Hazardous Waste, and
Iron Moth
Ogerpon-Hearthflame will also be on our radar, though it is unlikely that anything will be done to it as of right now.
- Wash away being nerfed benefits these mons in some way. Gouging fire doesnt just get forced out by alo every time and can setup in its face every day of the week, same against bulk prim, dondozo, rotom-wash, etc. Ceruledge and blaziken benefit similarly in that wash away is not only weaker which means that it will bounce off more often than not and they are able to 1v1 suchpokemon but also in that HO is prob gonna be better in the future which benefits them. Heatran benefits from wash away losing its ability to phase it away in that it can allow it to beat pex, dondozo, and other wash away users like rotom-w who is just ot really a threat with 60 BP wash away and allows heatran to get a lot of chip in
- Jolteon being nerfed allows potentially melo p to see a lot more usage. a big reason we saw zama-h > melo p is cuz jolteon is faster than it compared to zama-h which is very annoying and irritating. This would def allows melo p to shine a lot more in the meta
- biggest competitor with jolteon, one of the biggest reasons it was viable cuz it was able to bypass grounds with u-turn and now that jolteon lost round I believe thundy-i can see usage on teams again
- These all are losers as not only is wash away weaker which means its much easier to take minimal chip from it and setup on these mons but also the fact it doesnt phaze opponents out and pay your taxes at the same time. This makes it so smth like toxapex which used to drop haze may want to consider it again esp since some setup sweepers like SD gambit just take advantage of themor something like rekindle gouging fire
- All these mons are also losers of H waste being nerf to an extent. more specifically pecharunt pressure coming from choke + hazardous waste is gonna be much more noticably less as it isnt gonna be dishing extreeme amounts of dmg. Okidogi is likely gonna be UR'ed as the reason it was ranked at the moment is due to SD + Blunder policy on h waste and spamming high powered. Curious about SD Or bulk up sets but they have 0 experimentation. Weezing-G main niche was h stones + waste aka pseudo fez so maybe its a winner in that regard?
- One of the more viable pokemon, with static / volt absorb, good bulk, water/electric coverage and generally has options to bully the higher tiers with either strong water stab / wash away for removal and has slack off to recover off. Volt absorb is nice for jolteon, magnezone, zapdos, rotom-w, etc
- very unviable, not only is sand meh but also having to rely on polter to get a lot of good dmg in means it just isnt very good esp alongside ttar who has knock and using hippo asks you to slow the game down which isnt smth u may want to do with bramble who is frail and has SD to pressure. Sure with polter and power whip and SD it can go ham late game but its not as strong as exca, bulky, or has right moves to really be used over it
- its ok... ive seen some games of 
- +1 252 Atk Charcoal Tough Claws Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Milotic: 143-168 (36.2 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.
- from testing it isnt bad... its def usable and with leaf storm and shadow ball you can def cover a lot, you setup on mons like mage, threaten slowking-g, zone, corv, gholdengo, dragonite, shaymin with a +2 shadow ball while vacuum wave covers ur ass against weavile, gambit, melo p... (not really its really weak), its prob usable
- a lot of effort to put smth to work for smth that does not have much payoff... 1. you gotta run a team without knock 2. having to bring it in esp as a slow breaker against many faster mons 3. actually have an impact instead of trading 1 for 1 at best...
- 99 base speed pretty much is trolling... you wish you were mega diancie but also sucks against magnezone, slowking-g, the many water, grass, ground attacks in the tier and also are bad at bouncing
- Not worth it. Espeon is not only frail unlike mew but also just generally accumulates much less especially since it really struggles into MU like steel types where without tera blast it just kinda thuds... and being vulnurable to hazards, priority, and lacking good damaging moves makes it not worth it
- Fur Coat is nice but god you are just not doing well... if you are knocked you are gonna be spamming rekindle, gouging fire is a better fire type while crab is a better fur coat user. Its not even viable in UU which is rough. Maybe if tauros blaze rose to OU then it can be viable in UU with a raging fury set but its bulk is ass with 65 base hp, 60 base def, and 110 sp. def
- loses to any steel type, as a terrain user it is passive compared to shaymin and rillaboom, and it also with desert rose doesnt do much with it... you have to reset sand quite often and you would like using boots especially in a meta where stuff like zone, gliscor, heatran, slowking-g wall you endlessly. Maybe CM is good but idk... to hard to get going
- Sheer heart frost breath / ice beam hit hard but its not really smth to write home about esp if its boots it hits like a noodle still against waters and steels and if its specs then its dying to hazards before it breaks past the steels. With death aura it may function but just use typh h and also not worth it
- Prob one of the more worthy mons to use on this list. Gengar with neut gas has a lot of hidden utility especially on a scarf set where a lot of neut gas users are slow. It has the ability to neuter regen, poison heal, vessel of ruin, and with scarf it is able to clean games or with a hex set since it can disable magic guard, water veil, or purifying salt, and regen which could have helped take hits
Synchronize (replaces Unnerve), Cutting Remark, Lash Out, Rage, Tail Slap
N/A (already learns all moves originally suggested)
N/A (already learns all moves originally suggested)
Desert Storm, Natural Gift, Rage, Raging Fury, Rekindle, Rock Blast, Skull Bash, Sledgehammer Blow, Smack Down, Throat Chop
Wash Away
Defog, Lash Out, Psychic Fangs, Wind Breaker
Dragon Rage, Echo Chamber, Rebuild, Shrapnel Shot, Sledgehammer Blow
Dragon Rage, Meteor Beam
Counteract (replaces Telepathy), Choke, Dragon Rage, Snatch, Wind Breaker
Rage, Signal Beam
N/A (already learns all moves originally suggested)
N/A (already learns all moves originally suggested)
N/A (already learns all moves originally suggested)
N/A (already learns all moves originally suggested)
Chisel, Cutting Remark, Natural Gift, Peekaboo
Hazardous Waste, Latent Venom, Snatch
Chisel, Choke, Cutting Remark, Parry, Rage, Snatch (Single Strike only)
Momentum, Dragon Rage, Lash Out, Rage, Rollout, Storm Throw, Throat Chop
Momentum, Chain Lightning, Dragon Rage, Rollout
