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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I'm not ready to make a statement on Palafin yet, but I wanted to point out the striking hypocrisy in your message and how you might want to practice what you preach by playing before arguing.
tbh i dont see the tone shift? ngl if anything it's shifting in favour of dnb lol, bulk up sets seem not great vs the meta rn
way too early to call it obviously broken lol (same goes for calling it fine - lots of exploration left to do), especially if ur not even laddering
It’s literally JUST been made available on ladder lmao literally no one has time to make an informed opinion yet
Three hours is not enough time for anyone to adapt their teams to Palafin's presence, so the counterplay present is "Whatever you had ready for an Ogerpon-W with Superpower," and that's hardly the standard set. Ogerpon-W in general has similar enough counterplay that most teams shouldn't be getting utterly steamrolled, but that's far from the same thing as having a solid answer present; Ogerpon lacks priority, for one reason why an identical response wouldn't always work.
Two weeks is only enough time for the basic adaptations; it's entirely possible that Palafin hits the 50% to stay in OU, and ends up getting suspected in two months as new sets are explored and prove problematic. It's equally possible that much like Walking Wake, which was given a fairly quick suspect test only for opinions to decisively turn in favor of DNB, Palafin proves to be strong but not overwhelming.
That's the beauty of occasionally testing things down, we get to find out. If Palafin is fine, maybe another Uber or two is fine; if it's busted to hell, that suggests other candidates can also stat check OU.
Two weeks is only enough time for the basic adaptations; it's entirely possible that Palafin hits the 50% to stay in OU, and ends up getting suspected in two months as new sets are explored and prove problematic. It's equally possible that much like Walking Wake, which was given a fairly quick suspect test only for opinions to decisively turn in favor of DNB, Palafin proves to be strong but not overwhelming.
That's the beauty of occasionally testing things down, we get to find out. If Palafin is fine, maybe another Uber or two is fine; if it's busted to hell, that suggests other candidates can also stat check OU.
Sometimes i feel like having pre-built sample teams for each set of a suspected mon would be nice, to encourage use of the dropped mon. Also so that the mon actually sees usage tho palafin doesnt have this issue at all (just influenced by how deoxys-speed in nd is seeing like 0 usage lmao tho that could be cuz its mid)
Mate. It’s been how long since it was freed for the test? It’s far far too early to make such a call, let alone go into panic over this Mon. So far it hasn’t really felt outrageous at all in the like fifteen games I’ve played so far (seeing about 12 Palafin overall). Band is tough to work outside rain due to the hazard weakness and lower power not grabbing KOs against resists like it needs and also hating the presence of fat resists like Bolt and Mola while Zap and rocky helmet Corv punish it hard. Haven’t seen much bulk up, but it in theory struggles to sweep when there are so many checks like Wellspring, Bolt, Zapdos, bulky TWave Ghold, Mola (scald), Dragapult, Zamazenta,,; not to mention it needs to switch out before hitting Hero form.
If anything I’ve appreciated its speed control with its strong priority, and it’s a nice Encore user which can surprisingly do stuff like lock a Raging Bolt into CM or SD Tera Gliscor into SD.
If you think the Mon is broken, ladder and vote to ban it.
IT CAN ENCORE??? I may have to try a Boots set… although Hamu is probably a better Water-type Encore user…
Palafin is my hero..
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2267069000?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2267069000?p2
Dont forget about Clear Smog Amoonguss, Hydrapple, Primarina, Sinistcha, Toxapex (all of these are better than Zamazenta lmao) and ten million more slightly less reliable checks like Meowscarada. When meta adapts, Palafin wont even be in the top10 usage, its pretty obvious
For all the people in this thread, in the last 2 days i have played more than 50 1900+ elo games in OU i think, and in all these games I only met Facade Gliscor once, i also rarely met a "completely broken" Subtect Kyurem, also like 1-2 times
One user was absolutely right in his attempts to convey this to people (I guess you can't say his name), keep wasting your time on perfectly healthy mons and ask for more useless suspects. (its fun to read how someone thinks Lugia is a broken mon and not NU tier like Deoxys Def)
Used my bug catcher alt just for funsies (and so I won't have a mental breakdown on my main again) and man did I get so many W's with mah boi
Random L
First W
Second W
Third and final W (for now)
First Impressions (in low ladder):
No one's prepared for him. That's it.
Anyways I'll grab my popcorn and sit back as I watch chaos proceed.
Yeaaah you almost had an okay post and then this happened. Probably the silliest thing I’ve read in ages.
Anyways to keep on topic, those of you laddering for the Palafin what have you been electing to run on it?
Palafin-Hero @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jet Punch
- Close Combat
- Liquidation
- Encore
I like this just for the nice utility and breaking+speed control in one slot. Can’t actually comment on how practical it is overall since I’ve only played this set a little but it’s fun so far.
Palafin-Hero @ Covert CloakYeaaah you almost had an okay post and then this happened. Probably the silliest thing I’ve read in ages.
Anyways to keep on topic, those of you laddering for the Palafin what have you been electing to run on it?
Palafin-Hero @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jet Punch
- Close Combat
- Liquidation
- Encore
I like this just for the nice utility and breaking+speed control in one slot. Can’t actually comment on how practical it is overall since I’ve only played this set a little but it’s fun so far.
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Jet Punch
- Drain Punch
- Taunt
This has been the main set I've ran on it, and man, its disgusting. It feels like all of its usual 'checks' just don't work against it. The specific ev spread is to outspeed gliscor/kyurem, 96 attack to 2hit ko pon with +1 drain punch (tera fighting has a roll with just rocks damage to straight up ko pon in one hit) and the rest in HP. I faced a latias, and despite it resisting the move and me misplaying (I should have immediately taunted it), it still almost 1v1'd the latias. Covert cloak means you genuinelly do not care about pecharunt, alomomola and sinistcha (if you tera against the last one ofc). You do need to chip the ghosts a bit, but that's honestly not the hardest thing in the world.
I know people are going to say "its only been a couple of hours, we can't make a call" but it feels like even if they have waterpon+bolt+zamazenta, pala finds some way to bullshit through them. Also it feels so incredibly easy to get the turn to access hero form, by either leading it turn one or switching it in on something that can't really touch you/is setting up hazards. Against offense its probably a lot harder, but against bulkier teams it feels incredibly easy to get the transformation and win.
Personally I think if you want to run a semi-fast powerful water-type with Encore you ought to just do Hisuian Samurott since Encore can enable you more opportunities to layer Spikes. However there could be merit to Encore given Palafin’s blend of bulk and power. I would advise Flip Turn > Liquidation so you can convert Encore into momentum by forcing them out, which actually does create for a fairly effective offensive pivot.Yeaaah you almost had an okay post and then this happened. Probably the silliest thing I’ve read in ages.
Anyways to keep on topic, those of you laddering for the Palafin what have you been electing to run on it?
Palafin-Hero @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jet Punch
- Close Combat
- Liquidation
- Encore
I like this just for the nice utility and breaking+speed control in one slot. Can’t actually comment on how practical it is overall since I’ve only played this set a little but it’s fun so far.
I've been running:Yeaaah you almost had an okay post and then this happened. Probably the silliest thing I’ve read in ages.
Anyways to keep on topic, those of you laddering for the Palafin what have you been electing to run on it?
Palafin-Hero @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jet Punch
- Close Combat
- Liquidation
- Encore
I like this just for the nice utility and breaking+speed control in one slot. Can’t actually comment on how practical it is overall since I’ve only played this set a little but it’s fun so far.
Palafin-Hero @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 72 SpD / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Jet Punch
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
on this team https://pokepast.es/817bbf6754a998be. Cloak for alo and garg. Speed is for modest bolt. Honestly, I've kind of given up on this set because it feels really useless in a lot of matchups (any team with zama, tera molt/lando, needing to tera vs any team with oger/bolt etc). It doesn't really even comfortably beat bolt post tera which is concerning since it expends tera.
I've been having a vastly different experience in practice (i've spammed a lot of fin games albeit i did quite dramatically fall out of 1800s somehow so maybe it's different wherever you're at, if it's 1900s+ or whatever).
- You definitely don't beat sinistcha even with tera:
+6 96 Atk Palafin-Hero Jet Punch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Sinistcha: 155-183 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
and you have 0 healing because it is immune to drain punch
- Alo is more of a really safe scout than a direct answer, cloak should be pretty obv anyway when u don't see lefties
- I also don't think you beat pech easily without them misplaying? Again, you're healing 0 while
+6 96 Atk Palafin-Hero Jet Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 274-324 (72.1 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Pecharunt Malignant Chain vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Palafin-Hero: 109-129 (27.9 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
I'm also being generous in giving palafin +6 when realistically it never gets there
- zama's entire existence cooks this so bad, even taunting on the switch into it isn't enough
- i think this set has really low bs factor, none of the moves hax and it's quite slow to get going
On the other hand, I've been having more success with the traditional unga bunga band set:
Palafin-Hero @ Choice Band
Ability: Zero to Hero
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Flip Turn
- Jet Punch
- Close Combat
on this team https://pokepast.es/1976498345f395be. If you tera you kind of break anything that isn't immune (pex is cleanly 2hkoed for example), but u also KO urself in the process while wasting tera so.... ??? Without tera it can still break vs a lot of offense but a lot of the stuff it gets locked into is pretty rough vs set-up and it still KOs itself.
Not saying it's bad by the way, it's an absolutely amazing cleaner and revenge killer, probably the best revenge killer in the tier - which is great, imo this is a healthy trait
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waterpon is a great palafin check btw
0 SpA Sinistcha Matcha Gotcha vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fighting Palafin-Hero: 114-135 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 6% chance to 3HKO
96 Atk Tera Fighting Palafin-Hero Jet Punch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Sinistcha: 39-46 (11.2 - 13.2%) -- possible 8HKO
0 SpA Pecharunt Malignant Chain vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fighting Palafin-Hero: 109-129 (27.9 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
96 Atk Tera Fighting Palafin-Hero Jet Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 69-82 (18.1 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
We truly do not care about Pecharunt/Sinistcha? Can you show some replays where this is proven?
Come on guys Zapdos walls the fuck out of Palafin too, along with other water types. Clodsire too as it can run water absorb to eat up jet punches, I mean the list of checks goes on, I dont think its broken (too early to say still) but yeah, also it isnt the most speedy mon and dragons (esp dnite and long neck) eat it up. But it can be a good check for mr gambit as it could resist both of its stabs
Will water absorb Clodsire stocks rise?
All i know is, i'm running scarf kyurem freeze dry for the dolphin.
In my opinion if psychic terrain was a thing in gen9 it would help too.
All i know is, i'm running scarf kyurem freeze dry for the dolphin.
In my opinion if psychic terrain was a thing in gen9 it would help too.
It's been really difficult to tell how good palafin-hero is because I only ever see the baby dolphin. Everyone keeps switching it in on a hit and then flip turning out like it's glowking or something.
Flip Turn is so unbelievably bad on this thing, please stop. Just lead with it and hard switch. Flip Turn is only momentum if you force the opponent to switch too and baby dolphin ain't forcing any switches.
Flip Turn is so unbelievably bad on this thing, please stop. Just lead with it and hard switch. Flip Turn is only momentum if you force the opponent to switch too and baby dolphin ain't forcing any switches.
It's all a ploy to make the mon seem fair and balanced
yea thats why im running ice punch for dnite especially lmao
I'm halfway through the suspect test (17-0), inicial thoughts:
- Banded is ass
- Now waterpon is mandatory teams, it's Dracovish into Seismitoad all over again guys
- Banded is ass
- Now waterpon is mandatory teams, it's Dracovish into Seismitoad all over again guys
Waterpon can lose to certain Tera options or Acrobatics, too. Encore usage on it is way up
And yea, I think BU sets have been best so far