Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Palafin remains banned from SV OU (76%): https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ified-discussion.3756994/page-3#post-10389384

And no, I do not regret retesting it. I had a lot of fun trying it out and so did plenty of others. I also think the Likeshop offered a unique tiering opportunity that brought a ton of people togerher -- seeing 135 people to get reqs with short turnaround time during the middle of holidays despite slightly harder reqs is awesome, too.

I am not sure we will have any retests in the immediate future and a survey will come up on some potential suspects this month, but retests are an underrated tiering mechanism we should always keep in mind. In this scenario, Palafin was a unique toy and it took quite a few days for people to optimize usage of it and get the best performance from it. I enjoyed the laddering period and learned a lot about how reactive the metagame was. It settled to a point where it was too good, but it was refreshing nonetheless.
 
Finchinator said:
Palafin remains banned from SV OU (76%): https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ified-discussion.3756994/page-3#post-10389384

And no, I do not regret retesting it. I had a lot of fun trying it out and so did plenty of others. I also think the Likeshop offered a unique tiering opportunity that brought a ton of people togerher -- seeing 135 people to get reqs with short turnaround time during the middle of holidays despite slightly harder reqs is awesome, too.

I am not sure we will have any retests in the immediate future and a survey will come up on some potential suspects this month, but retests are an underrated tiering mechanism we should always keep in mind. In this scenario, Palafin was a unique toy and it took quite a few days for people to optimize usage of it and get the best performance from it. I enjoyed the laddering period and learned a lot about how reactive the metagame was. It settled to a point where it was too good, but it was refreshing nonetheless.
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recreating January 6th #soon we're keeping palafin in office
 
Eeveeto said:
Disaster avoided, we did it. Kyurem now has my permission to leave the Tier (not the Mon I consider broken the most, but the one that looks to have most support for a Ban), and then we have to remove Gliscor too.
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You can suspect Kyurem 100, no 1000 times and the people will vote DNB on it each and every time. Us Pro-Kyurem players have won before - we will win again. Opps had to cheat before to even have a chance at banning it and were promptly exposed.

The people will never yield!
 
I think it was for the best. OU didn't need another stressor in the builder. Hopefully now we can start making some more progress soon.

I'm not sure where we should talk about the like shop event, but the OU suspect part in particular felt very frontrunnrerish. Without getting too much into details, information paralyses was an issue for me throughout the event in general.
Magcargo said:
You can suspect Kyurem 100, no 1000 times and the people will vote DNB on it each and every time. Us Pro-Kyurem players have won before - we will win again. Opps had to cheat before to even have a chance at banning it and were promptly exposed.

The people will never yield!
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This propaganda neglects the fact that Kyurem stayed by 1 vote. It would already be banned if not for a handful of cheaters (who skewed the vote numbers) and a prank vote gone very wrong. I don't think you are great.
 
Ngl i'd be down to keep the tier as is and let things chill for a bit. Survey comes out either the 2nd or 3rd week of January, maybe the 4th. Whatever's fine with them.

Or chill with tests until the tourneys for the tier settle. Idk. But I feel like talking about tests immediately after Palafin finished sounds hasty
 
Finchinator said:
Palafin remains banned from SV OU (76%): https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ified-discussion.3756994/page-3#post-10389384
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but in all seriousness, i'm glad we had this test. we learned a lot from it, we all had some harmless fun breaking stuff on ladder, and hopefully we can finally stop talking about retesting ubers
 
I was only briefly active in showdown at the start of gen9 and started playing just some months ago. Is there somewhere I can see what happened in DLC1 and DLC2 in regards to the Ubers drops and retests? Like some sort of Smogon History?
 
AerionT said:
I was only briefly active in showdown at the start of gen9 and started playing just some months ago. Is there somewhere I can see what happened in DLC1 and DLC2 in regards to the Ubers drops and retests? Like some sort of Smogon History?
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i'll give a brief rundown:
  • 9/13/23: dlc1 drops. iirc there was a vote regarding volcarona, which was ubers at the time after a very controversial quickban, but it stayed banned
  • 9/16: baxcalibur quickbanned by unanimous vote
  • 9/22: ogerpon-hearthflame quickbanned by 7-2 vote
  • 10/7: ursaluna-bloodmoon banned by a 93% margin
  • 10/28: roaring moon banned by a 70% margin
  • 11/11: gliscor banned by a 66% margin
  • 11/18: sneasler quickbanned by 8-1 vote
  • 12/14: dlc2 drops. gliscor, roaring moon, volcarona and darkrai are unbanned via council vote following a public survey. deoxys-defense, deoxys-speed, and kyurem start ou, technically dropping from ubers. terapagos starts ou (in the council's defense, no one knew about the permanent stellar boosts yet). dlc2 isn't playable for a couple days, presumably because it took a while to code and implement stellar tera
  • 12/16: dlc2 becomes playable. terapagos is unanimously quickbanned in less than 24 hours
  • 1/21/24: sleep moves are banned and sleep clause mod is lifted after a long discussion and public survey
  • 2/4: kyurem suspect ends unsuccessfully with a 58% ban vote, narrowly avoiding a much better timeline
  • 2/17: archaludon is banned by a 76% margin
  • 3/16: gouging fire suspect ends in catastrophe with a 42% ban vote
  • 4/27: volcarona is banned by a 76% margin
  • 9/7: the community corrects its earlier mistake by banning gouging fire by a whopping 91% margin
  • 9/29: the community corrects another mistake, banning kyurem by a razor-thin 62% margin
  • 10/11: just fucking kidding, god forbid we have nice things, it turns out people have been cheating in suspects for quite some time and 11 votes in the kyurem suspect were found to be illegitimate, resulting in the pro-ban vote being only 59% instead and kyurem is unbanned after two glorious weeks without it. on the plus side, the suspect verification process gets a much-needed overhaul because of this and the new system is cooler and more efficient
  • 11/17: gliscor suspect ends with a 56% ban vote
  • 1/3/25: palafin retest ends with a 24% unban vote. you are here
  • the future: there's likely to be a third kyurem suspect at some point. if it ends up banned, another gliscor suspect may follow. i'm sure tera blast will be suspected eventually, definitely, for real this time. this will probably be the extent of tiering action in this gen unless we get around to solving the ghold and gambit issues. please god let us get gen 10 soon, i don't even care if the games are unfinished as long as we can be delivered from this hell
 
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Bakugames said:
100% sure gen 10 is only gonna release in 2026 to match the 35th anniversary. za is releasing next year and that has 0 impact in sv, so we probably have 2 more years of this gen to play
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The fact that we don't have a ZA trailer yet means it's def a holiday title, also would line up with the goal of increasing dev time, would be a 4 year dev time and give time for Gen 10 to also get an extra year.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
i'll give a brief rundown:
  • 9/13/23: dlc1 drops. iirc there was a vote regarding volcarona, which was ubers at the time after a very controversial quickban, but it stayed banned
  • 9/16: baxcalibur quickbanned by unanimous vote
  • 9/22: ogerpon-hearthflame quickbanned by 7-2 vote
  • 10/7: ursaluna-bloodmoon banned by a 93% margin
  • 10/28: roaring moon banned by a 70% margin
  • 11/11: gliscor banned by a 66% margin
  • 11/18: sneasler quickbanned by 8-1 vote
  • 12/14: dlc2 drops. gliscor, roaring moon, volcarona and darkrai are unbanned via council vote following a public survey. deoxys-defense, deoxys-speed, and kyurem start ou, technically dropping from ubers. terapagos starts ou (in the council's defense, no one knew about the permanent stellar boosts yet). dlc2 isn't playable for a couple days, presumably because it took a while to code and implement stellar tera
  • 12/16: dlc2 becomes playable. terapagos is unanimously quickbanned in less than 24 hours
  • 1/21/24: sleep moves are banned and sleep clause mod is lifted after a long discussion and public survey
  • 2/4: kyurem suspect ends unsuccessfully with a 58% ban vote, narrowly avoiding a much better timeline
  • 2/17: archaludon is banned by a 76% margin
  • 3/16: gouging fire suspect ends in catastrophe with a 42% ban vote
  • 4/27: volcarona is banned by a 76% margin
  • 9/7: the community corrects its earlier mistake by banning gouging fire by a whopping 91% margin
  • 9/29: the community corrects another mistake, banning kyurem by a razor-thin 62% margin
  • 10/11: just fucking kidding, god forbid we have nice things, it turns out people have been cheating in suspects for quite some time and 11 votes in the kyurem suspect were found to be illegitimate, resulting in the pro-ban vote being only 59% instead and kyurem is unbanned after two glorious weeks without it. on the plus side, the suspect verification process gets a much-needed overhaul because of this and the new system is cooler and more efficient
  • 11/17: gliscor suspect ends with a 56% ban vote
  • 1/3/25: palafin retest ends with a 24% unban vote. you are here
  • the future: there's likely to be a third kyurem suspect at some point. if it ends up banned, another gliscor suspect may follow. i'm sure tera blast will be suspected eventually, definitely, for real this time. this will probably be the extent of tiering action in this gen unless we get around to solving the ghold and gambit issues. please god let us get gen 10 soon, i don't even care if the games are unfinished as long as we can be delivered from this hell
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That's so kind. So first of all because Zama isn't mentioned it must have dropped before any dlcs, that's interesting, I didn't know that.

And second, the list of pokemon dropping in DLC2 is appaling. If this suspect has taught us something is that we need to be much more liberal when unbanning pokemon at the beginning of the DLCs. That way it's the strongest of them that stay in Ubers. Palafin was voted DNU not because it's too strong on its own, but because it adds one more thing to consider in the builder and the tier is already saturated with threats. In a way Palafin is paying for the sins of the other OU pokemon; that needs to change for gen 10.
 
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Alright, when is the survey dropping? Let's do things a bit faster this time around this tier is quite cooked. Also, do more surveys! At the end of the day, like I already said they should always be scheduled to come once a month, the metagame evolves fast enough for it to be useful. In any case, I gotta be the negative one here, this suspect was just torture, the metagame was pitifully bad, and instead of having fun playing this tier gave me physical pain. Welp! We have learned something from this! NEVER DO IT AGAIN I MIGHT HAVE REACHED MY LIMIT.
 
ant4456 said:
The fact that we don't have a ZA trailer yet means it's def a holiday title, also would line up with the goal of increasing dev time, would be a 4 year dev time and give time for Gen 10 to also get an extra year.
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Yeah, za, is probably dropping in October-November 2025, the 30th anniversary is in 2026 so we are probably getting Gen 10 in 2026, I don't wanna get anyone's hopes up bc this is just speculation, but maybe Za combat system will be the one in main games, and not Arceus combat system, since with megas you'd need abilities and items to make em fully work, so in theory you'd need the normal combat system. they could do it like in let's go, but for a title with mega at its core it would be quite an ugly solution.
 
While I'm here I'll drop my periodic post stating that the tier is not cooked, SVOU is still a very enjoyable format, the metagame keeps evolving, and innovation is not only possible, but desirable in a tier without changes. Patchless games evolve over time and people keep finding new strategies.
 
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