Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Avira said:
I believe Finchinator's suggestion that mons being retested outside of a DLC should have a settling period where you can't get reqs is a good idea as it gives time for players to optimize to an extent the suspected mon's sets. If players had waited longer, Walking Wake may not have even needed to be suspected when it first arrived.
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a settling period would also prevent people from being able to get cheap reqs by cheesing through ladder before any counterplay to the new thing on the block develops. i fully endorse this for retests (but only for retests—in regular tests where you can use the mon outside of the test, things have already had time to develop, at least ideally)
 
Avira said:
I believe Finchinator's suggestion that mons being retested outside of a DLC should have a settling period where you can't get reqs is a good idea as it gives time for players to optimize to an extent the suspected mon's sets. If players had waited longer, Walking Wake may not have even needed to be suspected when it first arrived.
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Yeah I do think Palafin may have deserved another week to settle in even if it did end up being debatably unhealthy
 
Palafin is interesting in that the cries of "IT WILL BE BROKEN!" have been rather conclusively disproven, but the concerns about overcentralizing the tier have been justified - whether or not you consider it 'over'centralizing, Palafin has certainly made its presence known.

I was one of the repeat voices crying out for a suspect, so I'm glad it happened. That it's (probably) not going to remain in OU is irrelevant, that the tier leaders were willing to retest an Uber outside of DLC is the important thing, because sometimes a mon busted early on is fine with more mons released. It lays the groundwork for establishing a standard for future tests, along the lines of "Cite decent counterplay options and a specific role it could fill, and then we'll talk," which subjectively feels right.

I also think it's interesting that had Kyurem been banned, Palafin would have a much better chance to remain in OU, since the synergy with each beating the other's counters is pretty formidable.
 
Alternator said:
Palafin is interesting in that the cries of "IT WILL BE BROKEN!" have been rather conclusively disproven, but the concerns about overcentralizing the tier have been justified - whether or not you consider it 'over'centralizing, Palafin has certainly made its presence known.

I was one of the repeat voices crying out for a suspect, so I'm glad it happened. That it's (probably) not going to remain in OU is irrelevant, that the tier leaders were willing to retest an Uber outside of DLC is the important thing, because sometimes a mon busted early on is fine with more mons released. It lays the groundwork for establishing a standard for future tests, along the lines of "Cite decent counterplay options and a specific role it could fill, and then we'll talk," which subjectively feels right.

I also think it's interesting that had Kyurem been banned, Palafin would have a much better chance to remain in OU, since the synergy with each beating the other's counters is pretty formidable.
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For the love of god the lesson of this test shouldn't be "Thankfully we've now setup a framework for unbanning more shit in a tier that has too much shit"
 
Retests should be three weeks, not two.

The first few days should not be open to obtaining reqs. This allows the tier to settle and people to play on normal alts, but forces reqs getters to engage with a more developed metagame.

I hope to implement this from the future and I am glad that it came as a takeaway from this retest.

I don’t think any of this applies to normal suspects, which maintain the current metagame on the ladder and do not add/subtract anything.
 
Finchinator said:
Retests should be three weeks, not two.

The first few days should not be open to obtaining reqs. This allows the tier to settle and people to play on normal alts, but forces reqs getters to engage with a more developed metagame.

I hope to implement this from the future and I am glad that it came as a takeaway from this retest.

I don’t think any of this applies to normal suspects, which maintain the current metagame on the ladder and do not add/subtract anything.
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Finchinator
The Chicken Wings Pokemon
Fire/Dragon

Base Stats
HP 95
ATK 101
DEF 137
SPA 73
SPD 75
SPE 112
BST 600

Abilities
Stall
Regenerator

Movepool
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
Flare Blitz
Flamethrower
Dragon Claw
Draco Meteor
Will-o-Wisp
Earthquake
U-Turn

Anyways to keep this an actual relevant post, I think it's super interesting how the stall meta has evolved over time. From the era of Alomomola supremacy and Cyclizar success to both those former high tiers slightly falling off in favour of more passive Clefable/Muk do-nothing stall teams, to today's more balanced stalls with options from the new top tiers Toxapex and Amoonguss taking the place as the ultimate Regenerators, as well as new niche picks like Bronzong overshadowing Pokemon like Skarmory and Muk and other lower-tiered choices. The history of stall in SV OU is really interesting because of how clearly you can define its eras by the top tier Pokemon and the Pokemon that weren't then but are now. In other words, you should read work-in-progress The Stall Bible and join Stallcord for yourself. Thank you folks.

P.S. - Fuck Alomomola. All my homies hate Alomomola and drop that mf for valuable Pokemon like Toxapex and Amoonguss. #AntiAlomomola
 
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Finchinator said:
Retests should be three weeks, not two.

The first few days should not be open to obtaining reqs. This allows the tier to settle and people to play on normal alts, but forces reqs getters to engage with a more developed metagame.

I hope to implement this from the future and I am glad that it came as a takeaway from this retest.

I don’t think any of this applies to normal suspects, which maintain the current metagame on the ladder and do not add/subtract anything.
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Yeah I agree, there should just be an initial week to better gather our thoughts about said thing being retested next time so extending the retest period by a week is the best thing we can do
 
Finchinator said:
Retests should be three weeks, not two.

The first few days should not be open to obtaining reqs. This allows the tier to settle and people to play on normal alts, but forces reqs getters to engage with a more developed metagame.

I hope to implement this from the future and I am glad that it came as a takeaway from this retest.

I don’t think any of this applies to normal suspects, which maintain the current metagame on the ladder and do not add/subtract anything.
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i wish we'd come to this conclusion sooner, i was so busy for this whole suspect that i hardly had any time to use the funny dolphin man :(
 
Finchinator said:
Retests should be three weeks, not two.

The first few days should not be open to obtaining reqs. This allows the tier to settle and people to play on normal alts, but forces reqs getters to engage with a more developed metagame.

I hope to implement this from the future and I am glad that it came as a takeaway from this retest.

I don’t think any of this applies to normal suspects, which maintain the current metagame on the ladder and do not add/subtract anything.
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I made a policy review thread on this idea to provide more detail on my thought process and get valuable community feedback: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/re-ou-retest-timelines-implementation.3757606/#post-10389030
 
Is extending the suspect another week out of the question?

While I have strong feelings for SV, negative feelings obviously, Palafin has been a lot of fun to mess with. Doesn’t solve any of the frustrations with the tier, but funny dolphin is funny. Throat Spray/Agility/Boomburst being the funniest, and cheesiest set I used during the suspect. After this I wouldn’t mind another Uber suspect since Big Tourney seems to be on the side of “No.” Though three weeks with a grace period for reqs seems like the way to do it.
 
Finchinator said:
Palafin's deadline will remain and any decision is geared towards the future with discussion just starting now -- nothing will be applied retroactively or immediately.
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actually let's apply it retroactively but put the extra week before the start of the suspect. starting from now, palafin was also legal from december 13-20. unfortunately no one noticed, since this hadn't yet happened when it happened
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
actually let's apply it retroactively but put the extra week before the start of the suspect. starting from now, palafin was also legal from december 13-20. unfortunately no one noticed, since this hadn't yet happened when it happened
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Hold up... his writing is THIS FIRE???

Anyways sorry I'm being held at zongpoint to glaze stallcord so uhm...

If palafin gets banned (praying) the new stall VR will be out shortly! It will contain the opinions of stall's greatest minds such as... supagmoney... CTC probably... uhhhhhh zarross? sire clod???? nvm

It will contain the opinions of stall's minds.

Join stallcord for insightful discussion like on who the biggest larper is, on the viability of Bronzong in SV OU (estimated B- to B+ tier on the VR right now), and on why ursaluna should be banned from SV OU!!
 
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Finchinator said:
Post actual content and do not plug stallcord everyday challenge -- difficulty: impossible

Please adhere to basic forum rules in the future. This is not the first time we have brought this up and posts are rightfully being reported at this point
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B-b-but... funny stallcord role.... </3

Alright, lemme make a post.

Why AV Mola is fuckin goated

alright bitches and butches, femmes and all, let's hike up our thigh highs and learn why AV mola is fucking goated.

1) AV mola is a ridiculously good scout

You scared of kyurem? We all are. Fuck kyurem. But you wanna piss off Kyurem? Switch AV mola in. Specs? Fuck specs we ball and pivot to the glowking. Boots? Fuck it we wall. DD? More like dumbass dicks because you're walled as every loving shitting fuck. Eat a prough kyurem. Mixed??? Mix up this Scald burn dumbass. The only set that will beat AV mola is Tera Ice Specs Freeze-Dry or DDance Tera Electric, but at that point, you're the bigger fish than mola. (Plus you tank anyways).

Also, you pivot the FUCK off of the sun fuckers. Wake? Fake. Typhlosion? Divine Gabriel more like Divine Fucked. Basically every other strong special attacker other than Raging Bolt? Flip Turn. AV mola is an incredible scout and pivot.

2) what's Gholdengo? You have coverage.

AV mola survives every single attack from +6 gholdengo except sometimes an offensive modest shadow ball. Therefore, mirror coat is an instant win button into ghold. It also trolls Iron Moth, Raging Bolt, Darkrai, and most other special attackers. They all explode to mirror coat.

Play Rough is another incredible move, fucking up Dragapult due to your great mixed bulk and strong coverage and hitting Roaring Moon and Dragonite without relying on Scald, although you still can due to being able to run the move.

These two moves combined are goated. Mirror Coat + Play Rough + Scald + Flip Turn alone beat so many Pokemon in the tier. The million, endless Dragons and Darks. Most physical attackers with Scald. Most special attackers with mirror coat. You beat everything. You are immortal. You have no weaknesses.

So does AV Mola have weaknesses?
-Knock
-Raging Bolt
-Hazards + offensive pressure
-not much else tbh

CONCLUSION

In conclusion, AV mola is ridiculously good and underrated. You pivot against so much of the tier, most strong attackers in fact, and can Scald or Mirror Coat so much of the tier it's insane. Use AV mola. It's so fucking good and it's so fucking underrated. Do it.

there, yall happy? I made a post true to my heart. I like AV mola.
 
RainebowValiant said:
B-b-but... funny stallcord role.... </3

Alright, lemme make a post.

Why AV Mola is fuckin goated

alright bitches and butches, femmes and all, let's hike up our thigh highs and learn why AV mola is fucking goated.

1) AV mola is a ridiculously good scout

You scared of kyurem? We all are. Fuck kyurem. But you wanna piss off Kyurem? Switch AV mola in. Specs? Fuck specs we ball and pivot to the glowking. Boots? Fuck it we wall. DD? More like dumbass dicks because you're walled as every loving shitting fuck. Eat a prough kyurem. Mixed??? Mix up this Scald burn dumbass. The only set that will beat AV mola is Tera Ice Specs Freeze-Dry or DDance Tera Electric, but at that point, you're the bigger fish than mola. (Plus you tank anyways).

Also, you pivot the FUCK off of the sun fuckers. Wake? Fake. Typhlosion? Divine Gabriel more like Divine Fucked. Basically every other strong special attacker other than Raging Bolt? Flip Turn. AV mola is an incredible scout and pivot.

2) what's Gholdengo? You have coverage.

AV mola survives every single attack from +6 gholdengo except sometimes an offensive modest shadow ball. Therefore, mirror coat is an instant win button into ghold. It also trolls Iron Moth, Raging Bolt, Darkrai, and most other special attackers. They all explode to mirror coat.

Play Rough is another incredible move, fucking up Dragapult due to your great mixed bulk and strong coverage and hitting Roaring Moon and Dragonite without relying on Scald, although you still can due to being able to run the move.

These two moves combined are goated. Mirror Coat + Play Rough + Scald + Flip Turn alone beat so many Pokemon in the tier. The million, endless Dragons and Darks. Most physical attackers with Scald. Most special attackers with mirror coat. You beat everything. You are immortal. You have no weaknesses.

So does AV Mola have weaknesses?
-Knock
-Raging Bolt
-Hazards + offensive pressure
-not much else tbh

CONCLUSION

In conclusion, AV mola is ridiculously good and underrated. You pivot against so much of the tier, most strong attackers in fact, and can Scald or Mirror Coat so much of the tier it's insane. Use AV mola. It's so fucking good and it's so fucking underrated. Do it.

there, yall happy? I made a post true to my heart. I like AV mola.
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AV Alomomola is unironically crazy. No Wish passing is hell, but having an Alo who's even bulkier and can more safely Mirror Coat on strong hits is crazy good. The only thing sturdier than AV Alo is Meowscarada and it's insistence on staying OU
 
RainebowValiant said:
Hold up... his writing is THIS FIRE???

Anyways sorry I'm being held at zongpoint to glaze stallcord so uhm...

If palafin gets banned (praying) the new stall VR will be out shortly! It will contain the opinions of stall's greatest minds such as... supagmoney... CTC probably... uhhhhhh zarross? sire clod???? nvm

It will contain the opinions of stall's minds.

Join stallcord for insightful discussion like on who the biggest larper is, on the viability of Bronzong in SV OU (estimated B- to B+ tier on the VR right now), and on why ursaluna should be banned from SV OU!!

Join now! https://discord.gg/8E8ea7ST

(I won't plug anymore finchy winchy, I'm just being held at gunpoint by supaglarper... forgive me...)
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protip: plug stallcord in your signature instead and you can advertise it on every post, including all your posts from the past, simultaneously
 
RainebowValiant said:
So does AV Mola have weaknesses?
-Knock
-Raging Bolt
-Hazards + offensive pressure
-not much else tbh
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So in other words, AV Mola is weak to two of the most common moves in the game and a premier sweeper that pairs with other pokemon that can wipe its teammates off the board

Idk man, sounds viable to me.
 
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