LMAOOOOOO YASS FINCH CALL THAT BOY OUT!!!!
Actually this is true for once
Also because the OU discussion thread is dogshit ass full of shitters like you and I, people forget that the loudest people are not the people getting reqs.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
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Also because the OU discussion thread is dogshit ass full of shitters like you and I, people forget that the loudest people are not the people getting reqs.
i don't think that should be the takeaway. the voter breakdown for almost every other suspect, even most of the ones that didn't pass, has had a majority voting against the status quo, so clearly there's something else going on here. if you look at both the regular and qualified discussion threads you only see a 50/50 split in the first couple days of the suspect, followed by a sharp turn towards "this is too much" when people started optimizing palafin for the current meta and realizing that the biggest effect it had was making threat saturation worse. the majority wasn't really silent at all. you can actually predict suspect results pretty consistently if you keep your ear to the streets
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I don't understand exactly what you mean. Are you saying that every reqs getter should be making a post? And are you saying there's a group of people that consistently get reqs and vote for the status quo regardless of context? Can you elaborate on your conclusion?
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I think he means that what people are talking about in the OU discussion doesn't necessary correlate to the general opinions, and thus can produce some surprising results.
*I told you so*
Anyways, now that we're done with that waste of time, are we still going to have a survey this month? Or do we need to wait to vote for it next Likeshop?
I kind of agree with this, and furthermore that only people who get reqs should be able to post in the thread at all. Only reason it looked 50/50 at all is because of Low ELO players (like myself) trolling by wanting le funny water boi free to wreck havoc.
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I think the actual qualified discussion thread's proportions were pretty much representative of the final vote. Most people reached the same conclusion about Palafin's metagame impact with a few dissenters. But the reason why I was confused about Seraphyde's point is that I don't think the premises led to the conclusions (50/50 on a thread, even if that were verifiably the case, wouldn't necessarily translate to voter percentages) and I don't know exactly what the ramifications of this discrepancy or 'silent majority' would be even if it were true, at least with the post in its current state. That's why I wanted some elaboration.
In order
What's the "I told you so" here? The claim was that the Suspect was done in bad faith, which is proven right because one user thought the test was unproductive (not to call them wrong, but it's not a large sample size)? You'd need more citations than that to make a bold claim about the thread at large. I already had a prior post pointing out how if the test was supposed to be a "gotcha" expecting no change, the voting threshold wouldn't have used the more lenient version.
The "only people with Reqs" scenario is already the point of the Qualified Discussion thread, this is advocating for something that already exists because of a separate conversation it was spun off from while strawmanning the latter.
I'll save Finch the trouble and be the first to say "Lurk More" because regardless of an understanding of the game, I don't find most of your posts contribute much to the thread, being mostly passive aggressive jabs at the Council and moderation, or bragging about being correct at the slightest alignment between your position and available information. These posts do nothing to discuss the Metagame or start conversation about it, much like the other user mentioned in this quote who similarly spends a significant amount of posting real estate on accusations against the system and insistence they know better than everyone else.
Like you cannot post these quotes back-to-back with both self-awareness and sincerity, unless that Glass house has a really nice view.
honestly i do vibe with this conceptually, but in practice i don't think there's any way to actually go about this in a way that's efficient or fair. would this be enforced by canceling out people's votes if they vote without sharing their opinion? by making it impossible to cast a vote unless the system detects a post in the suspect thread? by infracting people afterward if they vote silently? none of these options are fair to the voters at all. and even if we somehow find a way to enforce this that works, how do we prevent people from just sharing useless one-liners just for the sake of "posting in the thread"? do we not count it as sharing their opinion if the post isn't some arbitrary length or complexity? do we exclude shitposts? what happens if someone has a really awful opinion that reads like a shitpost but is actually in earnest, do we exclude them from voting for sharing their honest opinion? do we judge on a case-by-case basis and risk the result being skewed by bias from whoever's doing the judging? i can't really see any good method for making "every reqs-getter should post their opinions in the thread" anything more than a guideline, and guidelines are meaningless
Yeah, I mean, my question was kind of rhetorical. In addition to what you've mentioned, having everyone post about their intended vote... kind of defeats the purpose of actually having the vote. Go figure. We don't really need to have an idea of the result of a vote before it happens. Those who want to share their opinions don't have any qualms about it currently anyway.
ok i won't lie, just openly admitting it is kind of a chad move
this thread shouldn't be taken as an example of what meta discussion should look like. this website as a whole would be measurably better if making one-liners in meta discussion threads was a permabannable offense. yes, yes, pot kettle hypocrisy etc, but you know deep down i'm right about this
i had a response to the third part of the post but it was deleted and i forget what it was
Palafin suspect was definitely not a waste of time. Having the Pokemon around in the metagame was a nice change of pace and we saw a lot of new teams rise up to creatively make use it. And IMO it proved to be a much more reasonable test than I had initially envisioned. Seeing the interactions between it and some existing threats was also very interesting to me. Stuff like Raging Bolt would be more scared to Tera with a Palafin in the back, and other Pokemon like Gliscor weren't as threatened by Palafin as much as I immediately thought. My only regret is that this suspect didn't last longer since we likely would have seen more water absorb Pokemon like Clodsire (underrated mon already) & Gastrodon rise up in usage, while other Pokemon like Slowbro & Pex (which are also good vs zamazenta) could have begun seeing more use as well. In fact, if other Pokemon were to be banned, I'm pretty sure Palafin could be safely retested again at a later date.
Not really sure what complainers are mad about here? The likeshop system for the test imo was fine, the Pokemon itself wasn't anywhere near as overwhelming as most initially thought, and at the end of the day THE MON IS STILL BANNED.
Not really sure what complainers are mad about here? The likeshop system for the test imo was fine, the Pokemon itself wasn't anywhere near as overwhelming as most initially thought, and at the end of the day THE MON IS STILL BANNED.
The "I told you so" is the bad faith suspect of Palafin (which is bad faith since it was funded by a glorified meme of Likeshop) is going to be used as an unofficial blacklist of the discussion behind unbans in OU. If you actually read my posts and not just my "I could be banned!" sticker you might realize that.
I want you to read the past 500 pages on this thread and say if my posts true stand out compared to our favorite mosquito's or our favorite stallcord stan. Besides, what conversation or discussion is to be had on the meta? Nothing has changed for a full on year, it's almost solved at this point. If every post should only be "wow guys here's my epic OU team with the same six meta mons as everyone else!" this thread would be fruitless for absolutely everyone.
It does, thanks for asking!
Apologies, reformating.
Well we shouldn't do that. We aren't going to retest things like Gliscor or Kyurem which had fractions of a percent off of being actioned, so we definitely shouldn't retest a mon that had 75% ban rate lmao (and rightfully so palafin was painfully stupid for the meta)
TL:DR, council needs to actually be transparent about blacklisted topics, most of the thread isn't "meta discussion" and using that as a shut down to discourse is pot calling kettle black, and retesting won't happen lmfao (thank God)
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Everything involving the palafin test was pretty fair play all things considered.
A fair test, little drama comparatively to Kyurem (oh lord), and the mon was collectively agreed by a super duper majority to be a bit too OP. Idk what the issue is. It's one of the fairer tests we've had in a while.
A fair test, little drama comparatively to Kyurem (oh lord), and the mon was collectively agreed by a super duper majority to be a bit too OP. Idk what the issue is. It's one of the fairer tests we've had in a while.
In the end, it all will come up depending on a few things:
1. Which Mons end up banned. Without Waterpon, Raging Bolt and Kyurem, I can see a distant future with healthy dolphin, though I still don,t like the Mon.
2. How long the Generation lasts. After a Gen ends, some changes might still happen, but the pace of the Suspects is much, much slower and will depend more on some tournament performance. If the Gen ends this year, Palafin will have no time to be retested again, because...
3. Which Uber Mons deserve to be tested. At least for me (feel free to disagree, I am used to it), Zamazenta Crowned, Lugia, Giratina-A, Solgaleo, Archaludon, Sneasler, Baxcalibur and if Tera Blast gets banned Volcarona too are all Mons that look more reasonable in current OU than Palafin is (not saying they aren,t broken, some definetely are, just looks like their presence might be less disastrous than Palafin's one). There is definetely no time to retest (and to make people agree for it) all of them in 2 or even 3 years, while doing regular Suspects (which are always going to be more common). Palafin might just have no time because we might be busy with other things.
1. Which Mons end up banned. Without Waterpon, Raging Bolt and Kyurem, I can see a distant future with healthy dolphin, though I still don,t like the Mon.
2. How long the Generation lasts. After a Gen ends, some changes might still happen, but the pace of the Suspects is much, much slower and will depend more on some tournament performance. If the Gen ends this year, Palafin will have no time to be retested again, because...
3. Which Uber Mons deserve to be tested. At least for me (feel free to disagree, I am used to it), Zamazenta Crowned, Lugia, Giratina-A, Solgaleo, Archaludon, Sneasler, Baxcalibur and if Tera Blast gets banned Volcarona too are all Mons that look more reasonable in current OU than Palafin is (not saying they aren,t broken, some definetely are, just looks like their presence might be less disastrous than Palafin's one). There is definetely no time to retest (and to make people agree for it) all of them in 2 or even 3 years, while doing regular Suspects (which are always going to be more common). Palafin might just have no time because we might be busy with other things.
eh i dunno about this one chief. some of the more problematic mons and the best palafin partners also happen to be really good into palafin, so it's very possible that palafin counterplay goes down as threat saturation does. in particular, if waterpon ever ends up banned, palafin is never coming back—the existence of a splashable water absorber was one of the only things that even made it worth testing
One thing that came out of the Palafin suspect for me is a huge appreciation of Pecharunt 
, max speed is easily the best set and pairs incredibly well with Lando. It does a fantastic job on BO's and essentially freely 1v1's Tusk after an Intimidate proc from Lando. Malignant Chain + Toxic Chain is honestly BS LMAO, it's a super clickable move since you also always threaten a pivot with Parting Shot. That mon was also incredibly consistent at beating BU Palafin, since you would usually get up to like, 3 opportunities to get a poison proc and be able to Parting Shot out.
Been having a ton of fun with Hellom 6, would highly recommend
, max speed is easily the best set and pairs incredibly well with Lando. It does a fantastic job on BO's and essentially freely 1v1's Tusk after an Intimidate proc from Lando. Malignant Chain + Toxic Chain is honestly BS LMAO, it's a super clickable move since you also always threaten a pivot with Parting Shot. That mon was also incredibly consistent at beating BU Palafin, since you would usually get up to like, 3 opportunities to get a poison proc and be able to Parting Shot out.Been having a ton of fun with Hellom 6, would highly recommend
This gen we have opted to be very light about moderating this thread because we want as many people to be able to engage in discussion as possible and try to be pretty open about topics too. We usually only blacklist discussing Ubers like Lugia since we want people to discuss the OU meta instead, but at this point in time, tiering-related topics are okay because of the recent Palafin test, and if we get any insight on how to improve that process or a related process, then that's great and we're open to letting that be discussed. Granted we do have the PR forum for that and would suggest anyone who wishes to contribute to those discussions more directly post in that forum.
What is NOT okay is people repeatedly insulting each other and arguing with each other with passive aggressiveness and thinking it's fine to do that over several pages of this thread. We're a big diverse community and we all need to find ways to discuss things with each in a respectful manner. I'll just link my post from November and and repost the main rules AGAIN because somehow 1 month is enough time for people to forget. Palafin posts are fine for now because that test/meta was recent.
- Pokemon, abilities, moves, anything that is Ubers and not in OU
- No theorymonning about Ubers if x move/item/ability/mechanic was banned instead of a mon
- No discussing National Dex or whatever happens in their tier
- No 1 liners or short replies. Use the reacts instead or write a longer post
Happy New Year
pecharunt and araquanid woooo, both the GOATmons.One thing that came out of the Palafin suspect for me is a huge appreciation of Pecharunt
Been having a ton of fun with Hellom 6, would highly recommend
pecharunt is honestly deserving of maybe A, it's one of the best BO bulky pivots in a metagame infested with bulky offense right now. it's also decent on balance, fat, and even stall. it's so fucking good. it is SO good rn. tier staple.
araquanid is cool. webs is the best HO mon and araquanid is the webs mon. that's about it.
tysm! have a happy new year
Pokemon Scarlet and Violet's "Overused" thread is for discussion regarding the tier on the Website Smogon dot com about Pokemon who have a high enough usage rate to be "Overused" in comparison to their fellow mons. What do we think about these Overused pocket monsters? What strats have you accured? Oh, wait we're fucking shitting our pants again and talking about how the council is gangstalking me again? Take your fucking meds
anyways
Outside of raw negativity from select personalities in the thread this is one of the few rules I think would be best to try and gently push ppl onto. I think generally that some oneliners are alright insofar (mostly if they're funny or for brief reproach) but I encourage anyone to try and use the thread to stir discussion. Nothing more exhausting than seeing multiple nothing posts that doesn't contribute to discussion or are just shitflinging for the sake of it.
Talk to me about how your Shitmon set functions in OU please ESPECIALLY if its got merit to it. I came here to screw over Gambit in .01 of scenarios.
anyways
Outside of raw negativity from select personalities in the thread this is one of the few rules I think would be best to try and gently push ppl onto. I think generally that some oneliners are alright insofar (mostly if they're funny or for brief reproach) but I encourage anyone to try and use the thread to stir discussion. Nothing more exhausting than seeing multiple nothing posts that doesn't contribute to discussion or are just shitflinging for the sake of it.
Talk to me about how your Shitmon set functions in OU please ESPECIALLY if its got merit to it. I came here to screw over Gambit in .01 of scenarios.
meta discussion? in my meta discussion thread? it's more likely than you thinkOne thing that came out of the Palafin suspect for me is a huge appreciation of Pecharunt
Been having a ton of fun with Hellom 6, would highly recommend
i'm so glad people are finally talking about pecharunt seriously again. people were sleeping on it when it first came out, then there was a period where people were like "oh maybe this nasty plot tb set is ok?", then that fell off, now max speed is in and it's been in for a while. even before palafin it had a very noticeable increase in usage and it's pretty damn obvious why. the stat spread that everyone thought was lackluster has turned out to be good enough to accomplish basically anything you want a fat pivot to do, and the crippling weaknesses against some of the tier's most splashable mons have turned out to be a lot less crippling than we thought because we finally found the right partners for it. glad to welcome the mon into ou
Good lord. I know Pokemon is a kids game, but do we need to act like actual toddlers in this thread?
The Palifin suspect test was entirely successful. The Meta has changed so much that it was only fair to retest it. And the qualified base decided it was to over centralising and kept it banned.
I have no idea what the problem is.
The Palifin suspect test was entirely successful. The Meta has changed so much that it was only fair to retest it. And the qualified base decided it was to over centralising and kept it banned.
I have no idea what the problem is.
I swear this this is Schrodinger's Rott. If your unit can be outpaced by Scarf Ham, then you're facing a Scarf Ham, guaranteed. If you out speed a Scarf Ham, then you are suddenly not facing one, it's Boots or whatever.
The solution is, of course, to ban the Choice Scarf. I mean, seriously, how is this remotely healthy or helpful for the metagame? Is there a single person out there who is fine with having their Darkrai take over 60% from a U-Turn dished out by a Lando has no right to be going first or having their Pult nuked before it can respond and having to contend with a layer of spikes afterwards?
Please, god, make this satire, for if this is real I have lost all hope in this thread.
seraphyde always has very wild takes, dont take it as the entire threads opinion.
anyway, imo my favorite hamurott is banded. i wont say its the best but god, hitting hard on top of setting spikes is sooo good for progress