It is not satire. Seraphyde is always 100% serious.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
i swear it's a conspiracy. every time i'm like "ahahaha i can tell by the team comp that this is scarf hamurott and i've chosen my lead well into it, i can outspeed and ohko" it's sashed
if only there were some sort of nerf to the item. maybe like if it, i dunno, locked you into a move so you had to commit harder when you click things? something like that? that'd probably make it a lot more manageable because you could play around it by locking the scarf holder into a move it would rather not be stuck using, allowing you to force it out or set up on it. but obviously this isn't the case so we should definitely ban choice scarf
Seraphyde is one of the funniest posters I'm gonna be honest. Baiting so hard and so frequently everybody takes his takes as serious. This is the shit magcargo is on. Bait so consistent that even finchinator won't delete his posts. Insane.
I put hamurott at S-. It's so insane. Band, AV, scarf, sash, boots, and it can run SD, taunt, encore, razor shell, aqua cutter, knock and more. He gets every progress move ever. He is insane. Sleeper broken, and that's not even a particularly hot take.
Agreed. Bandurott is STUPID. It's actually one of the craziest mons of all time.
I put hamurott at S-. It's so insane. Band, AV, scarf, sash, boots, and it can run SD, taunt, encore, razor shell, aqua cutter, knock and more. He gets every progress move ever. He is insane. Sleeper broken, and that's not even a particularly hot take.
You send in your Dragapult and click U-Turn, do just over half, bring in your Glimmora and then you kill with your attack of choice and you also get a layer of ToxSpikes for free, except oops either the enemy either has a Ch*ce Sc*rf or Aqua Jet and your gameplan is now ruined.
Sacred Sword is a funny option if a bit situational. Why bother with Encore when you can just delete Gambit or Moon outright, and it also gives you an ace in the hole against Tera Normal Gliscuck and Dragonite, and it's also a perfectly accurate option for when you absolutely cannot risk that 5% chance that Iron Treads or Ursaluna dodges Razor Shell.
Sacred Sword is a funny option if a bit situational. Why bother with Encore when you can just delete Gambit or Moon outright, and it also gives you an ace in the hole against Tera Normal Gliscuck and Dragonite, and it's also a perfectly accurate option for when you absolutely cannot risk that 5% chance that Iron Treads or Ursaluna dodges Razor Shell.
Honestly I feel like The Rott is too slow and not bulky enough to run SD or Band, I would just run it HDB but if you HAD to boost its damage you could try Life Orb.
Choice Scarf is possibly the most telegraphed item of all time besides literal Booster Energy. I think you just need better gameplans
SD has Sucker Punch to play with; you’d usually just drop Knock if you wanna run SD. Band doesn’t wanna be locked into Sucker, but Aqua Jet in the last slot works fine enough if you need to pick something faster off. You’re mainly using it as a surprise breaker that plays off of people’s complacency expecting Hamurott to be Scarf, Sash, or AV, and for that purpose, base 85 is actually quite solid.
Golurk @ Choice Band
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Earthquake / Poltergeist
- Stealth Rock
- Trick
Embrace the life style that is "getting mid game rocks up" and "Dynamic Punching something to death" and also "Ticking a fucking Blissey" all in one mon.
No Guard Dpunch like DPP Uber staple Machamp, i respect it (66% of the time)
Just gotta pair it with the demon itself
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Substitute
- Fire Punch
Who says we cant use paraflinch webs? Also
Golurk @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Poltergeist
- Substitute
- Ice Punch
Maybe this set works better. Outspeeding adamant gambit is very nice tbh, plus sub is nice to gamble with confusion, and ice punch means lando and gliscor do not like switching in
You can ban the gambling out of the tier but you cant take the addiction out of the homie
I don't talk here often but I think U-Turn itself is lame
Volt Switch and Flip Turn are fine bc they have their distribution sorely limited but genuinely why does everyone under sun get U-Turn
U-Turn's never leaving us (unlike the opposing Meowscarada) but I wanted to get that off my chest
Volt Switch and Flip Turn are fine bc they have their distribution sorely limited but genuinely why does everyone under sun get U-Turn
U-Turn's never leaving us (unlike the opposing Meowscarada) but I wanted to get that off my chest
U-Turn's wide distribution would bother me less if it wasn't easily the most reliable move for its intended purpose (namely pivoting with initiative/momentum instead of prediction reliance) due to lacking an immunity or form of blockage in any capacity (Volt Switch has Ground types and both VS/FT have ability immunities at least). Given how powerful that Switch control is (to the point in previous gens, Tapu Koko runs U-Turn purely for that reliable usage over the STAB + Terrain damage of VS on its invested stat), it feels like the reliable version should be the rarest one due to being the hardest to interrupt. Not to say this is an objective problem either, but I do think U-Turn reliability vs Volt Switch has been a major contributing factor in offense and Balance identity for years since it requires less prediction to achieve an optimal outcome (imagine your pivot getting stopped because the most-used-Pokemon Lando-T hit the field against the Physical Pokemon it was brought to check).
How are people finding Cinderace right now? Webs are obviously on an upswing with Araquanid (which I took in part to be because it matches better into said removers like Ace and Tusk) and Burns (especially fast) look as good as ever against the top brass like Gambit, Zamazenta, Dragonite, Moon, and Ogerpon in tandem with Court Change. At the same, you're playing chicken with Scarf vs Non-Scarf Samurott-H as a Hazard setter and can be real food for Fire Resists/Bulky Set-ups like Curse Dozo (and an iffy Stall match-up beyond Court Changing Hazards back once), Calm Mind Bolt, and SD Gliscor
How are people finding Cinderace right now? Webs are obviously on an upswing with Araquanid (which I took in part to be because it matches better into said removers like Ace and Tusk) and Burns (especially fast) look as good as ever against the top brass like Gambit, Zamazenta, Dragonite, Moon, and Ogerpon in tandem with Court Change. At the same, you're playing chicken with Scarf vs Non-Scarf Samurott-H as a Hazard setter and can be real food for Fire Resists/Bulky Set-ups like Curse Dozo (and an iffy Stall match-up beyond Court Changing Hazards back once), Calm Mind Bolt, and SD Gliscor
Pivots this generation IMO are still insane like they were in Sword and Shield OU. Boots + impervious pivots like Slowking-Galar, Alomomola, and Corviknight make it easy to get a lot of mons on the the field. Been playing a lot of the older gens like ORAS and DPP and pivoting is NOWHERE near as free as it is this generation. Not saying this is a bad thing necessarily, but its just something I've been noticing when going back to the older generations. I think its cool the way these slow pivots help improve the viability of otherwise lacking Pokemon, but it does seem like the gameplay when using them is a bit samey & can feel like a crutch sometimes.
Pivoting was way more free in SS I feel like though
Hold on, you might be onto something... Sacrificing Elo to ruin someone elses day? I think this is a good trade off. I will report back on this one cuz I have grown weary of not playing against someone and making them want to kill themselves.
The more I play Pokemon the more I deeply realize that U-turn being so wide spread is a terrible thing. Not only due to its bug typing (how many dark types that would be interesting to see suffer due to this? etcetc) but I find the lack of actual counterplay outside of touch dangerous mons or rocky to be annoying for how much it provides.
Instead you spent half of a paragraph posting to explain why you didn’t make the post. Perhaps we need to reconsider when to and when not to hit the post reply button
The legitimate hatred of Rapid Spin confuses me more than some randbat sets. Doubly so calling it brainless or no skill considering how much work it takes to generate a single turn for throwing out a paltry damage move for the sake of removing Hazards while also making sure the situation doesn't cost you the user at an important time or allow Spikes to simply go back up.
Incidentally and to have an actual discussion prompt, in the current state of SV OU, does the ease of setting and challenge to removal favor offensive, defensive, or balance teams the most, given their respective reliances on the damage and pacing/action economy?
Incidentally and to have an actual discussion prompt, in the current state of SV OU, does the ease of setting and challenge to removal favor offensive, defensive, or balance teams the most, given their respective reliances on the damage and pacing/action economy?
I mean the tier would hardly be playable without Rapid Spin. Anyone claiming it should be removed is just trolling or not at a level where they understand teambuilding and long-term gameplay. Entertaining it seriously is not worthwhile
Finch why are you taking the bait
Anyways U-Turn is a fine move, I just wish it had less distribution. I wish they added a damageless pivoting normal pivoting move (cough cough) and then nerfed u-turn distribution. That way, the common pivot move can't make progress as easily and it also has taunt counterplay. That'd be so cool.
how to beat rapid spin
- contact-punishing abilities like static and flame body make contact moves like rapid spin a much riskier click than it normally is. even though the spinner still gets the spin off, it risks being significantly crippled and you'll be able to get and keep hazards up more reliably in the future. the very existence of a static or flame body mon in the back is a soft deterrent to clicking contact moves
- position yourself in such a way that the spinner has to sacrifice most of its hp to get in (methods of doing this are left as an exercise for the reader), then switch in a rocky helmet user. if the spinner's at low health and faints from helmet damage, it doesn't remove the hazards. even if you don't have the opportunity to position in this way, helmet in general is a good way to wear down spinners in the long term, especially tusk, which almost exclusively runs contact attacks
- die before it can hit you. have a move like explosion or steel beam, or switch in something at low health without boots if hazards are up on your side, or have life orb, or do some similar thing that makes you faint so the spinner has no target when it clicks the move
- offensively pressure the spinner. this should be pretty straightforward if you can predict it coming in and safely get in something that can outspeed and immediately threaten a kill
- ghost-types, ghost-types, ghost-types. the absolute best counterplay to rapid spin is to just block the move altogether. between the defog-blocking gholdengo, the ever splashable dragapult, new rising star pecharunt, sleeper pick sinistcha, and skeledirge (which i still insist is goated), you can fit a good ghost-type on virtually any playstyle. this is also the exact reason why so many hazard setters run tera ghost—it's really great to have your hazard setter double as a spinblocker, so you see a lot of people going for ghost on hamurott, ting, glimm, treads, spikes gliscor, etc. this is especially effective when the ghost-type is paired with one of those contact punishers i talked about earlier—having two separate options in the back to punish rapid spin will heavily discourage people from just clicking it whenever they want. yes, spinners will often have coverage against ghost-types for this very reason, but it's important to note that no matter what they have against your ghost-type, they still can't click rapid spin as long as that mon is on the field
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A paragraph is 5 sentences, that was a sentence and a sentence fragment.
I think people seriously underestimate how easy it is to click Rapid Spin. If a 50 base power attack coming off of a 131 base attack stat is “paltry” just because it’s not STAB or SE then I don’t know what to tell you. Ice and Dark coverage make it nearly impossible to reliably spinblock long term because nothing that’s not an outright physical wall actually wants to
People often cite the Proboscidean Entity’s meager Special Defense when claiming that it’s easy to KO but conveniently ignore its massive HP.
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 336-396 (90.5 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
196 SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 280-331 (75.4 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
132 SpA Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 316-374 (85.1 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 326-386 (87.8 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Pecharunt Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 210-247 (56.6 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 331-391 (89.2 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
144+ SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 292-344 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And physically, well
252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 254-302 (68.4 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 302-358 (81.4 - 96.4%) -- approx. 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 232-274 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240 Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 208-246 (56 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Protean Fraudscarada Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 278-330 (74.9 - 88.9%) -- approx. 2HKO
Great Tusk is a Pokémon that is extremely difficult to offensively pressure without supereffective STAB, at full HP and especially if it has HDB it fears next to nothing, and can easily dismantle Ghost types with its sheer power and coverage. It can easily survive a hit, spin, and KO back. All of this, mind you, is calculated with an offensive set, I'm not even mentioning the game of "Guess which Great Tusk set you're facing" a la Kyurem. This leads me to my next point...
Defensive and balanced teams are highly favored in the hazard metagame because they're the only ones that can reliably stop Rapid Spin. Pecharunt and Sinistcha are mostly consistent in spinblocking in spite of their weaknesses to Great Tusk’s coverage, Corv and Lando sponge attacks fairly well, defensive Ghold still loses to Great Tusk but is very good at annoying Defoggers. Likewise, they’re also the best suited for removal, with insufferable metagame additions such as Glowking and M*la able to bring in removers and keep them healthy.
I don’t believe it should be banned, if only because the meta has progressed this far tolerating it’s existence, but it’s extremely frustrating to deal with. If I were Dictator of Smogon I would just remove the speed boosting mechanic but something something cartridge accuracy.
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I got you boss: https://pokepast.es/40a25500e568f91c