Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Spookcooke]

Guys I recently started playing two Interesting fairy types, I would like to talk abt them.


&

physical enamorus just seems... so middling. it can never damage gholdengo and low bulk means its incredibly easy to revenge. it also takes a second to get going, basically having no damage output until a few turns later when its gathered enough boosts, while also being a bit of a z-hog as ur not damaging much anyways without flynium-z. weakness to rocks hinders its crappy bulk even more

as for maud, its sole purpose is basically for checking pult, thats about it. due to lack of heals and inability to hold boots, its incredibly easy to wear down after a few turns despite its incredible bulk, so even if nothing immediately ohkos it, its still insanely easy to get chipped down and eventually killed. if u even want anything close to reliable heals, ur forced to sacrifice 2 moveslots for the wishtect combo, meaning utility is even more limited.

Silly Worm Orthworm!

orthworm is like... 70/55 spdef bulk. thats it folks.

252 SpA Terapagos-Terastal Tera Starstorm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Orthworm: 136-161 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

u get 3hkod by every spatker u resist in the tier and 2hkod by the ones u neutral to.

as for kyurem check:

0 Atk Orthworm Heavy Slam (40 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 84-102 (20.7 - 25.1%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO

u basically dont even break sub, LMAO, ur gonna have to run a ton of atk evs just to win vs kyu, who just chips away at u considering freeze dry is straight up 4hkoing u with subroost, ice beam is 3hkoing with offensive while also 2hkoing with specs. the mons also difficult to justify using, as steel/ground resist niche is overshadowed, spikes niche is outclassed, and bpress... well the dawg exists. and also no heals, so any chip is basically permanent.

Lastlyyyy, I want to talk about duck prime. you heard it right, duck prime.


lil Goat has the non-negligible niche of not dropping to any Prio in the tier, thanks to Recover to live sucker punch, Conversion to electric for Bullet punch, and generally the defense boost does the Job against Espeed. imo Conversion to Electric is the best bc like the other contenders are Ice and ghost and in a meta with Kingambit can we afford to be weak to either STAB? Moreover, Ice beam as Coverage is almost as good as Ice beam as STAB, except when you have Ice beam as Coverage it imples you actually live stuff. imo good on Webs, Screens and Gterrain. Gterrain because, well, halving EQ power is great.

low speed and useless if it cant sweep or kill a bunch of enemies, while wasting z. basically, z hog that doesnt do much outside z, compared to pokemon like kartana, tapu lele, etc who can all preform well despite having an immediate one-time z
.
i have nothing to say about jirachi cause it is simply goated ^_^

 

[Moyashi]

I do think there's room for experimentation with Enamorus-I in a post Tera meta, especially as Galar Slowking usage is down significantly and Iron Crown is less common (still good though), and it also is a useful check to Garchomp, certain Landorus-T, Ting-Lu and in a pinch, can pivot into various fighting moves from the many fighters in the tier. I just don't think mixed or physical sets are the way to go as they struggle with lacking initial power, are perma walled by bulky Ghold (the best set imo which I'll get to in a moment), and it's speed is just decent (fuck, saying 106 speed is only decent feels gross) and it has poor bulk meaning it's rather easy to revenge kill especially with strong special threats (Koko, Val, Raging Bolt). Even something like scarf Kartana still OHKOs a +1 def Enamorus with Smart Strike after rocks or any easily accrued 10% chip.

MAud just is far too passive and exploitable. You either run WishTect to stay healthy, leaving just two moves to use for anything else or have a partner to wish it up, which isn't any better. Plus being a fairy that doesn't resist fighting types is just really not desirable.

Anyways, I wanna talk a couple mons

Gholdengo @ Fightinium Z / Ghostium Z
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Recover

I'm a big fan of bulky Ghold in this metagame. Despite the presence of Kingambit and Mega Tyranitar, this feels fairly reliable and sturdy into a ton of stuff running around, both old and new. Mega Medicham, Iron Valiant, Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, non specs Lele, Zamazenta, and even helping vs various Kartana (whom I noticed has been more popular as of late). It's also just helpful vs a ton of random cheese nonsense you might run into. NP+Z also helps break down slower teams, though I think TWave+Hex has strong merit too. The choice of Z really just comes down to wanting the huge burst power to break some stuff, I'm slightly partial to Fightinium just because it can be used to boost up and break even fat special tanks like Ting-Lu as well as the rare Chansey/Blisseys.

Outside random strangeness like Choice Band (why) and the odd Defiant I've seen on occasion even in the 1900 range on ladder, Kingambit still feels like an easy top three mon right now. Even when it doesn't threaten instant sweeps, it puts out pressure and its knock is one of the best progress makers in the tier. I've noticed a fair bit more Swords Dance lately, which surprises me but it is still very threatening to teams that lack bulky fighters or specific checks like bulky Lando-T or physdef Moltres. Ting-Lu is a good check to non Low Kick variants, though I've seen more and more SD Gambit running it so maybe not. I don't think it's overpowered, but I think it punishes fishy teams well and commands respect in the builder.

Speaking of dangerous, this mon is honestly still really cracked and I'd love to know what other Balance or BO players run to handle it, or what strategies they use. Wellspring still is one of the most threatening mons to slower teams in the tier, and I've kinda come to hate the BS that is Ivy Cudgel's high crit rate and lack of contact. There's a ton of teams I see when laddering that just kind of fold to it if it's given a chance to set up, and sometimes it doesn't even have to and can just click Ivy Cudgel to break down those teams alongside hazards digging into checks.

Other misc thoughts to add on at the end, Great Tusk is peaking right now I'd say, Torn-T is good again, Melm is very good, Dragonite is alright. Oh and I hope you all are having a good new years so far.

 

[Toxic Ariados]

0 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor-Mega: 284-336 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 184-220 (50.5 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
80 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 158-186 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So actually it can do stuff. And it can Skill Swap with stuff Like Gliscor to Table the turns, Yawn things to force Pivot, especially effective with Knock, imo its absence of ability (except if u run Skill swap) is what scares people off, but imo it can be overcame, esp with support like Hazard Control and Hazard themselves.
So you can slap a Coverage move in there, just like slowking will sometimes pull Ice Beam/Flamethrower out its ass to Snipe a mon.

I can respect the other picks, but Audino? That Pokemon is pretty much the embodiment of dead weight. That coverage sounds great on paper but in reality Audino is basically this thing:

So how many of these calcs are actually practical though? The only one of these calcs that actually nets an OHKO is the one on an offensive Scizor. Not only do many of them run some defensive spreads, you have to catch them on the switch or you take a Bullet Punch to the face. Only the greediest of the greedy would actually switch an offensive Scizor into anything that they haven't properly scouted the moves of. Tyranitar would never realistically come or stay in on a fairy type, and that Low Kick damage is absolutely pitiful, Kingambit just Iron Heads your face or SD's on the 50% chip that it can probably afford to take, and Gholdengo can just recover or Make it Rain. Skill Swap is an absolutely ludicrous matchup fish, if you don't run into a Gliscor or something, that's a dead move slot for the entirety of the battle on top of an already inept Pokemon. You want to use Wish/Protect to stay healthy, and probably Dazzling Gleam to hopelessly prod whatever sets up on you with your wimpy 80 Sp. Atk., so once that last move slot is revealed your surprise factor goes down the drain. If you don't run some form of healing, you easily get whittled down. Your opponent won't care if they cant OHKO you if you can only poke them with your mediocre Special Attack. It's not like their Pokemon is in danger of going down. If you want to have a slow, fat, defensive Pokemon with coverage like that, just run Slowking or Slowbro. Those guys have Regenerator, pivot moves, and excellent coverage that actually does damage. If you want a Dragapult counter just run pursuit Tyranitar or something, it's better than Audino because the Dragapult can't just, I don't know, switch out? Seriously, there are so many better options here that don't waste a mega slot, or at least do something with that slot.

Porygon-Z though, I think it has a bit of potential. Z Conversion can be kinda terrifying on webs, and it has pretty solid coverage to back it up. Definitely a Pokemon I wanna experiment with in the future. And I think Orthworm was used in the finals (or semifinals) of the ND Summer Seasonal, so I'll always respect it for that, even if that was when Tera was allowed.

 

[Skyuchi]

Lastlyyyy, I want to talk about duck prime. you heard it right, duck prime.


lil Goat has the non-negligible niche of not dropping to any Prio in the tier, thanks to Recover to live sucker punch, Conversion to electric for Bullet punch, and generally the defense boost does the Job against Espeed. imo Conversion to Electric is the best bc like the other contenders are Ice and ghost and in a meta with Kingambit can we afford to be weak to either STAB? Moreover, Ice beam as Coverage is almost as good as Ice beam as STAB, except when you have Ice beam as Coverage it imples you actually live stuff. imo good on Webs, Screens and Gterrain. Gterrain because, well, halving EQ power is great.

I appreciate the cooking Chef, though I'm not too sure about Porygon-Z and it actually got me thinking about Kommo-o. I think it might actually be pretty unexplored at the moment because it might be weirdly good at the current metagame. Anyone had any luck? Surely someone else noticed the chance.
Poryquack-Z has the issue of no defensive utility where you don't want to swap it into anything and it has to waste a turn to set up. Kommo-o matches up pretty well against a ton of top threats (Kingambit, Zard Y (remember, Weather Ball is a bullet move somehow), with Ice Punch it beats up all the grounds we got, Waterpon lacking Play Rough, etc). It's an excellent Knock Off absorber with its Z-Crystal, and after using its Z move it's still resistant to most priority (huge defense, resists Sucker Punch/Aqua Jet, immune to Bullet Punch). It sets up by nuking the opponent and then can keep swinging and while you're not going to have any option of recover, it has a huge amount of bulk backing it up so that means less. You know, the stuff we've all known for generations now, but the current metagame favors dragon types is what's changed.
Very little in the tier actually wants to revenge kill it and right now Fairy types aren't used too much, so the hard counter and bane of its existence is easier to take on than ever. Nobody is bringing Clefable, especially Unaware Clefable. If you prep for Valiant, Lele, and Diancie you should be good to go. It outspeeds Dragapult at +1 while OHKOing (and being immune to Shadow Ball for pivot opporunities should that need arise) and it's a mixed attacker that doesn't really get forced out by anything that isn't a fairy. It's immune to all but Make It Rain that Gholdengo wants to throw out, and that means Ghold is so much easier to play around due to the mindgames of that.

Basically with Tera gone I think the punchy pangolin might have the potential to be a top threat and ultimately you could even slot on poison jab for so your opponent never really knows what you might be packing. Next time I get a chance I'll try it out but I'm thinking Clanging Scales, Close Combat, Ice Punch, and maybe Flamethrower or something with enough speed to beat Pult at +1 with the rest in SpAtk and Atk. Maybe bring Mega Scizor for a bulky offense cleanup crew or something? U-Turn can bring him in safely and a lot of things that switch into Scizor don't want to eat a Clangerous Soulblaze after chip.

 

[Spookcooke]

Speaking of dangerous, this mon is honestly still really cracked and I'd love to know what other Balance or BO players run to handle it, or what strategies they use. Wellspring still is one of the most threatening mons to slower teams in the tier, and I've kinda come to hate the BS that is Ivy Cudgel's high crit rate and lack of contact. There's a ton of teams I see when laddering that just kind of fold to it if it's given a chance to set up, and sometimes it doesn't even have to and can just click Ivy Cudgel to break down those teams alongside hazards digging into checks.

Most mons that check chardy act as a woger check too, stuff like dnite, mlati, kommo-o, rbolt, etc. issue is all these mons fold to play rough but thats just a risk u gotta take. also i forgot ivy cudgel has a high crit ratio, i seriously thought all the crits were just my unluck

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Let's talk about them. Enam imo in this meta is better running Superpower as it snipes AV Gambit and Ttar/Mtar, Fly Z as a Nuke (Seriously it does High damage) Play rough for STAB and Zen Headbutt so it doesn't have to burn Z on any and every Clodsire and pex.
Enam can also run Mixed sets with Superpower as its sole Phys move, with Contrary so it can still spam, and because hey you get spatk boosts from Moonblast now.

the physical set seems like a bit too much of a z-hogging set with an initial damage output of basically zero. special-biased mixed superpower is nice in randbats, but i've personally never bought into it here—i always prefer cm if i'm running enam these days (and that's a pretty big "if"). no idea what you're talking about with moonblast giving you spatk boosts, that's not a thing

Mega Audino on the other hand already scared off people. While it's Obviously a hard check to Draga, why would one use a Mega slot on this? well depending on the EV spread Mega Aud Can check almost everything that doesn't hit is for SE Damage, And thanks to its Huuuuge movepool it can spread Para, knock, Heal bell, Wishtect, Chip things down bit by bit with Dazzling gleam, or do BOOM and snipe shit with its Crazy Coverage
60 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor-Mega: 284-336 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 184-220 (50.5 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
80 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 158-186 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So actually it can do stuff. And it can Skill Swap with stuff Like Gliscor to Table the turns, Yawn things to force Pivot, especially effective with Knock, imo its absence of ability (except if u run Skill swap) is what scares people off, but imo it can be overcame, esp with support like Hazard Control and Hazard themselves.
So you can slap a Coverage move in there, just like slowking will sometimes pull Ice Beam/Flamethrower out its ass to Snipe a mon.

sorry, but no. the fact that you need investment on this thing to guarantee an ohko on uninvested m-scizor with fire blast is absolutely fucking dire. this mon does no damage and outspeeds nothing. it's just a support blob, and because it doesn't have an item or ability it gets outclassed by most other support blobs in every category except specifically walling dragapult. most of those extra moves you listed aren't gonna do anything to make progress and some of them are just dead slots

Silly Worm Orthworm!
I like using Orthworm because it's even more reliable of a lando counter than lando, as it resists Z Rock, flying, Explosion, and is ummune to toxic. Why would I not use bronzong for this deed, if I want a Bulky steel that's Immune to Ground and resists Ice (Kyurem coounter)? because Orthworm has better tools. its Heavy slam, STAB and to get rid of fairies, comes from 310kg instead of Bron's 187, it can Trap With Sand Tomb and setup with Coil, thus running a Sand tomb Coil Bpress Itail set, it can restoChesto too or beneficiate from wish support (from, for example, Mega Aud) or run theset I run in Heavy Slam ID BP Spikes. ID BP makes you a literal menace in late game, esp with Heavy slam to dunk on Things that can't OHKO it like HP Fire Lele or Mixed Ival, who thuds into Worm after 1 SD. Orthworm is lso a Spiker that Wins vs the most common Hazard removal, being (Cringe) Defog Corv, CC-less Tusk (Hella common I stg), and Flamethrower-less Terapagos. Earth eater is much better than Levitate also because you're not immune, you HEAL from taking ground type damage. BU Tusk, a potent sweeper if u ask me, is not doing shit to Orthworm, and can get chipped with Helmet. I like Orthworm on Gterrain bcause with lefties it's +12% HP per turn, or with Help you still get passive recovery. The Biggest Drawbacks of Orthworm imo are its lack of toxic, of Recovery move bar rest and of Amnesia. I mean, look at this guy. would you give it you car keys? Of course there are other ones, like 55 Spdef, or the fact it has to have a Teammate that can scout opps' movepools bc it struggles fitting in tect, or even its lack of Shed Tail (Most sane ban this gen) and the fact it has absolutely no shot at ever Damaging a gholdengo bc Picture this, let's take a Coil Set, that can have incr damage output, you trapped a Tusk and Coiled up 6 times, opp sends Bulky dengo and you
+6 0 Atk Orthworm Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 96+ Def Gholdengo: 161-189 (42.5 - 50%)
Literally do NOT 2HKO at +6 attack with a 100BP 215% Acc STAB bc Orth has a Steelix type attack stat, "you better be in lower tiers or else you migh as well use Dragon Rage lol". Anyways I am convinced Orthworm's niche is actually there and if y'all have any suggestion (Other than not using orthworm) on what set using that I might have overooked, tell me.

my suggestion on optimizing orthworm is don't use orthworm. i know you said not to say this but listen man, orthworm loses to literally every special attacker ever made and needs to set up way too many times to deal real amounts of damage. as a spiker, it doesn't actually win against corv because a bunch of those still run body press, even though it walls lando the taunt sets still cripple it, moltres bodies it, zapdos also bodies it because neutral special hits on orthworm are the equivalent of super effective ones on things with a real defensive stat, terapagos also also bodies it because even resisted tera starstorm chunks the fuck out of it, and so on and so forth. heavy slam on this guy is piss

lil Goat has the non-negligible niche of not dropping to any Prio in the tier, thanks to Recover to live sucker punch, Conversion to electric for Bullet punch, and generally the defense boost does the Job against Espeed. imo Conversion to Electric is the best bc like the other contenders are Ice and ghost and in a meta with Kingambit can we afford to be weak to either STAB? Moreover, Ice beam as Coverage is almost as good as Ice beam as STAB, except when you have Ice beam as Coverage it imples you actually live stuff. imo good on Webs, Screens and Gterrain. Gterrain because, well, halving EQ power is great.

eh, pz is kind of a z-hog whose one gimmick is that it can effectively still tera after the ban, but even with that capability you rarely get a safe turn to set up. it has very very stiff competition as a normal-type special setup guy from cm terapagos, which is slower and can't do the wacky omniboost + type change but has more immediate setup opportunities, has way better longevity, can set up more than once, can patch up its speed with rapid spin, etc

Imo this guy provides Speed control, and emergency Flinch to win vs things like specspult, trick is a cool tool and abov all, 70BP Hynosis. Secret power on Gterrain has 30% Sleep, boosted by serene Grace. Sleep the Yard, swtch. Simple but effective mon, discuss guys

ok not gonna lie an attack with a 60% sleep chance might be worth trying out. even without the terrain it's just a marginally weaker body slam and no one was exactly running body slam for the damage output. compressing speed control and sleep into a single slot sounds kinda nutty

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

as for maud, its sole purpose is basically for checking pult, thats about it

Did you not read what I wrote?

MAud just is far too passive and exploitable.

60 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor-Mega: 284-336 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 184-220 (50.5 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
80 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 158-186 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

,

low speed and useless if it cant sweep or kill a bunch of enemies

yea. "if" +1 Adap boosted Tbolt with Ice beam coverage is actually hitting hard. And I mean really hard.

it can never damage gholdengo

That's what good defensive types are here for

Déjà vu

 

[Dahness]

Guys I recently started playing two Interesting fairy types, I would like to talk abt them.


&


Let's talk about them. Enam imo in this meta is better running Superpower as it snipes AV Gambit and Ttar/Mtar, Fly Z as a Nuke (Seriously it does High damage) Play rough for STAB and Zen Headbutt so it doesn't have to burn Z on any and every Clodsire and pex.
Enam can also run Mixed sets with Superpower as its sole Phys move, with Contrary so it can still spam, and because hey you get spatk boosts from Moonblast now.


Mega Audino on the other hand already scared off people. While it's Obviously a hard check to Draga, why would one use a Mega slot on this? well depending on the EV spread Mega Aud Can check almost everything that doesn't hit is for SE Damage, And thanks to its Huuuuge movepool it can spread Para, knock, Heal bell, Wishtect, Chip things down bit by bit with Dazzling gleam, or do BOOM and snipe shit with its Crazy Coverage
60 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor-Mega: 284-336 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 184-220 (50.5 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
80 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 158-186 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So actually it can do stuff. And it can Skill Swap with stuff Like Gliscor to Table the turns, Yawn things to force Pivot, especially effective with Knock, imo its absence of ability (except if u run Skill swap) is what scares people off, but imo it can be overcame, esp with support like Hazard Control and Hazard themselves.
So you can slap a Coverage move in there, just like slowking will sometimes pull Ice Beam/Flamethrower out its ass to Snipe a mon.
*



So that's it for the Fairies what do you think about Mega Aud? not a lot of things OHko it, by not a lot I mean
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Audino-Mega: 326-384 (79.5 - 93.6%)

but I also have another mon to talk about, to "discuss" eh, and it is none other than
Silly Worm Orthworm!
I like using Orthworm because it's even more reliable of a lando counter than lando, as it resists Z Rock, flying, Explosion, and is ummune to toxic. Why would I not use bronzong for this deed, if I want a Bulky steel that's Immune to Ground and resists Ice (Kyurem coounter)? because Orthworm has better tools. its Heavy slam, STAB and to get rid of fairies, comes from 310kg instead of Bron's 187, it can Trap With Sand Tomb and setup with Coil, thus running a Sand tomb Coil Bpress Itail set, it can restoChesto too or beneficiate from wish support (from, for example, Mega Aud) or run theset I run in Heavy Slam ID BP Spikes. ID BP makes you a literal menace in late game, esp with Heavy slam to dunk on Things that can't OHKO it like HP Fire Lele or Mixed Ival, who thuds into Worm after 1 SD. Orthworm is lso a Spiker that Wins vs the most common Hazard removal, being (Cringe) Defog Corv, CC-less Tusk (Hella common I stg), and Flamethrower-less Terapagos. Earth eater is much better than Levitate also because you're not immune, you HEAL from taking ground type damage. BU Tusk, a potent sweeper if u ask me, is not doing shit to Orthworm, and can get chipped with Helmet. I like Orthworm on Gterrain bcause with lefties it's +12% HP per turn, or with Help you still get passive recovery. The Biggest Drawbacks of Orthworm imo are its lack of toxic, of Recovery move bar rest and of Amnesia. I mean, look at this guy. would you give it you car keys? Of course there are other ones, like 55 Spdef, or the fact it has to have a Teammate that can scout opps' movepools bc it struggles fitting in tect, or even its lack of Shed Tail (Most sane ban this gen) and the fact it has absolutely no shot at ever Damaging a gholdengo bc Picture this, let's take a Coil Set, that can have incr damage output, you trapped a Tusk and Coiled up 6 times, opp sends Bulky dengo and you
+6 0 Atk Orthworm Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 96+ Def Gholdengo: 161-189 (42.5 - 50%)
Literally do NOT 2HKO at +6 attack with a 100BP 215% Acc STAB bc Orth has a Steelix type attack stat, "you better be in lower tiers or else you migh as well use Dragon Rage lol". Anyways I am convinced Orthworm's niche is actually there and if y'all have any suggestion (Other than not using orthworm) on what set using that I might have overooked, tell me.


Lastlyyyy, I want to talk about duck prime. you heard it right, duck prime.


lil Goat has the non-negligible niche of not dropping to any Prio in the tier, thanks to Recover to live sucker punch, Conversion to electric for Bullet punch, and generally the defense boost does the Job against Espeed. imo Conversion to Electric is the best bc like the other contenders are Ice and ghost and in a meta with Kingambit can we afford to be weak to either STAB? Moreover, Ice beam as Coverage is almost as good as Ice beam as STAB, except when you have Ice beam as Coverage it imples you actually live stuff. imo good on Webs, Screens and Gterrain. Gterrain because, well, halving EQ power is great.


Did I say Lastly before PZ? certainly. Do I abide by my own rules? nah.
ANOTHER ONE


Imo this guy provides Speed control, and emergency Flinch to win vs things like specspult, trick is a cool tool and abov all, 70BP Hynosis. Secret power on Gterrain has 30% Sleep, boosted by serene Grace. Sleep the Yard, swtch. Simple but effective mon, discuss guys

So lemme say that i understand the appeal of trying out lesser used mons, but sometimes some mons are just not equipped for certain metagames.Enam needs a lot of superpower boosts to actually do something noticeable, the fact that you are z means you have to always and i mean always make sure rocks arent up on your side, and u also just kinda blown threw by faster mons or scarfers.

I can somewhat see the appeal of maudino, as it has just the right typing to completely blank out pult, but as daddybuzzwole said, if you cant one tap mega scizor with a fire blast even with investments, you arent really worth the effort.

Ortworm is similar to maudino in that regard, ig its cool that it has the type and ability combo to make mons like lando and treads unable to touch it but like...its not worth it


Gl actually getting pz to do something when there's scarf shifu, zama and hard hitters in general like gambit, pz is cool on paper but its hard to get it moving and even after a z conv omniboost, u still lack enough coverage, u will still not be able to do much to mons like ferro and scarf shifu still outspeed you.

Rachi is underated imo, it can cover a lot of stuff and that 60% secret power is crazy, you might just he onto something.

 

[Comett7778]

60 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor-Mega: 284-336 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 184-220 (50.5 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
92 Atk Audino-Mega Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
80 SpA Audino-Mega Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 158-186 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Audino-Mega: 326-384 (79.5 - 93.6%)

Mega Audino is definitely not worth the mega slot. It’s in theory got a solid move pool, a good typing, and good stats. The problem is it has severe 4 move slot syndrome. It’s got no recovery out side of wish, which means it needs at least wish and probably protect. This leaves it with two slots. You really want to be able to contribute more to the team than just being a worse mola, meaning at least one slot is healbell knock-off, t-wave, or toxic. And then you want a move to actually do consistent damage. This leaves you having to choose between what you “check” with your coverage. I’m putting check in quotes because you don’t really check much.

We’ve already established that Mega Audino has a singular slot it can use for consistent damage, without losing on something else. This means that if you want to reliably check gambit, you have to run low kick. This obviously is problematic, even if you run knock off you still can’t damage common mons easily. Or if you wanna run fire blast, which doesn’t ohko a Scizor with any investment(which most Scizor should have), you now are walled by most water trypes, and dragon types. You could run dazzling gleam, or hyper voice, but this can still leave you useless against common mon you should wall.

I briefly touched on this with the wish section, but no nonwish recovery really sucks. It forces two of your slots, and Mega Audino really needs all 4. And yes mola can work as a mon with wish being its only form of recovery, as a move. It still has regenerator and has flip turn to reliably pass and Mega Audino lacks both. It doesn’t even have an ability that works in singles. Using Mola as a comparison again, it only wants toxic or scald in its last slot depending on the team. And this lack of recovery becomes apparent due to it being forced to hold a mega stone. Mega Audino really wants leftovers or boots to preserve it longevity but just can’t.

TLDR: Mega Audino sufferers from 4 move slot syndrome, lack of non wish recovery, and being a mega. All this makes it far too passive, and not able to damage some the things it should check easily, no matter the set.

 

[Toxic Ariados]

Did you not read what I wrote?


,

yea. "if" +1 Adap boosted Tbolt with Ice beam coverage is actually hitting hard. And I mean really hard.

That's what good defensive types are here for

Déjà vu

You act like these calcs are some sort of saving grace for Audino. In practice (and on paper if you really give it thought), these are just hot garbage. Killing uninvested Scizor with Fire Blast is really nothing special, but the fact that it just narrowly hits that mark is so pathetic. The fact that you do 50-ish to Tyranitar with a 120 BP Quad Effective move says enough about how exploitable you are. And when would Tyranitar ever stay or come in against you? You will never realistically get that hit off. Oh, and it's not like Gholdengo can just click Recover on the move thats supposed to threaten it, and you have to catch Kingambit on the switch to actually 2hko it, or it'll use that opportunity to SD or just Iron Head you first. These calcs mean nothing when the opponent just uses their brain. Audino is literally just Jevil in the wheelchair, it can't do anything.

Now why don't we talk about the better fat support Pokemon (even though that's an incredibly low bar), Slowbro. I think that it is incredibly underrated right now.



Pinky (Slowbro) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Future Sight
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Teleport

Here is a build I've been running quite a lot lately. Slowbro has excellent an excellent ability, defenses, coverage, and arguably the best pivot move in the game, Teleport. Thunder Wave is such a great utility move, it makes for an easy punish against something that wants to set up on you. Scald and Future Sight make for a really good support combo, nothing wants to switch into Scald, and you can set up Future Sight and Teleport into one of your attackers to condition the opponent to switch into something that can take the incoming Future Sight on top of whatever else you plan to hit them with. Rocky Helmet is a good item to punish careless U-Turns, but you can also run Heavy Duty Boots to avoid hazard chip. Slowbro has excellent longevity and utility, it also serves as a great foil for rain teams.

You can run so many different moves with this guy, seriously. Psychic Noise over Future Sight is a good option if you really want to screw over Wish pass teams, or just Recover Pokemon in general. For the extra punishment you can run 44 Speed EVs to outspeed Toxapex and stop it from recovering. Just make sure you are not running a negative Speed nature if you import a set. The first two moves have to be Scald and some Psychic move like Future Sight or Noise, but the third move can be anything, T-Wave, Slack Off, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, whatever. Ice Beam hits Dragons pretty hard and does more damage to stuff like Landorus and Gliscor, things like Dragonite are forced to respect your presence if they haven't been deterred by the risk of a Scald burn. Flamethrower can easily threaten stuff like Ferrothorn and Scizor, the former seems like a very good switch into Slowbro, but Flamethrower can turn the tides with ease.

Ice Beam & Flamethrower Calcs

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 172-204 (49 - 58.1%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor-Mega: 188-224 (54.8 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 148-176 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 260-308 (80.4 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 224-268 (63.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 316-372 (82.7 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you're worried about the Kingambit and Tyranitar matchup, you can run a combo that easily reels them in. That combo is Colbur Berry + Body Press. Body Press does severe damage to both of these guys, and Colbur Berry ensures that you live whatever they throw at you. This can serve as a nasty lure to likely put these would-be counters out of commission for the rest of the match. If you feel really confident, you might not have to use Colbur, you can take an unboosted Knock Off from these guys if you have enough HP to do so, and the Rocky Helmet chip usually ensures a KO with Body Press. I think Rocky Helmet is better in general, but using the Colbur Berry is a good way to patch that matchup if you really need to.

Body Press Calcs

252+ Atk Kingambit Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Slowbro: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.6%) -- 64.9% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Slowbro: 159-187 (40.4 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Def Slowbro Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 292-344 (85.6 - 100.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Slowbro: 141-166 (35.8 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ Def Slowbro Body Press vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 244-288 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So what do you think? I think Slowbro is very underrated right now, it has excellent utility unlike the other so-called support Pokemon that was mentioned and is my go-to support Pokemon whenever I'm building a team. It's so reliable and consistent, and always has a trick up its sleeve.

 

[Sami]

You act like these calcs are some sort of saving grace for Audino. In practice (and on paper if you really give it thought), these are just hot garbage. Killing uninvested Scizor with Fire Blast is really nothing special, but the fact that it just narrowly hits that mark is so pathetic. The fact that you do 50-ish to Tyranitar with a 120 BP Quad Effective move says enough about how exploitable you are. And when would Tyranitar ever stay or come in against you? You will never realistically get that hit off. Oh, and it's not like Gholdengo can just click Recover on the move thats supposed to threaten it, and you have to catch Kingambit on the switch to actually 2hko it, or it'll use that opportunity to SD or just Iron Head you first. These calcs mean nothing when the opponent just uses their brain. Audino is literally just Jevil in the wheelchair, it can't do anything.

Now why don't we talk about the better fat support Pokemon (even though that's an incredibly low bar), Slowbro. I think that it is incredibly underrated right now.



Pinky (Slowbro) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Future Sight
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Teleport

Here is a build I've been running quite a lot lately. Slowbro has excellent an excellent ability, defenses, coverage, and arguably the best pivot move in the game, Teleport. Thunder Wave is such a great utility move, it makes for an easy punish against something that wants to set up on you. Scald and Future Sight make for a really good support combo, nothing wants to switch into Scald, and you can set up Future Sight and Teleport into one of your attackers to condition the opponent to switch into something that can take the incoming Future Sight on top of whatever else you plan to hit them with. Rocky Helmet is a good item to punish careless U-Turns, but you can also run Heavy Duty Boots to avoid hazard chip. Slowbro has excellent longevity and utility, it also serves as a great foil for rain teams.

You can run so many different moves with this guy, seriously. Psychic Noise over Future Sight is a good option if you really want to screw over Wish pass teams, or just Recover Pokemon in general. For the extra punishment you can run 44 Speed EVs to outspeed Toxapex and stop it from recovering. Just make sure you are not running a negative Speed nature if you import a set. The first two moves have to be Scald and some Psychic move like Future Sight or Noise, but the third move can be anything, T-Wave, Slack Off, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, whatever. Ice Beam hits Dragons pretty hard and does more damage to stuff like Landorus and Gliscor, things like Dragonite are forced to respect your presence if they haven't been deterred by the risk of a Scald burn. Flamethrower can easily threaten stuff like Ferrothorn and Scizor, the former seems like a very good switch into Slowbro, but Flamethrower can turn the tides with ease.

Ice Beam & Flamethrower Calcs

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 172-204 (49 - 58.1%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor-Mega: 188-224 (54.8 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Slowbro Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 148-176 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 260-308 (80.4 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 224-268 (63.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 316-372 (82.7 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you're worried about the Kingambit and Tyranitar matchup, you can run a combo that easily reels them in. That combo is Colbur Berry + Body Press. Body Press does severe damage to both of these guys, and Colbur Berry ensures that you live whatever they throw at you. This can serve as a nasty lure to likely put these would-be counters out of commission for the rest of the match. If you feel really confident, you might not have to use Colbur, you can take an unboosted Knock Off from these guys if you have enough HP to do so, and the Rocky Helmet chip usually ensures a KO with Body Press. I think Rocky Helmet is better in general, but using the Colbur Berry is a good way to patch that matchup if you really need to.

Body Press Calcs

252+ Atk Kingambit Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Slowbro: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.6%) -- 64.9% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Slowbro: 159-187 (40.4 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Def Slowbro Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 292-344 (85.6 - 100.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Slowbro: 141-166 (35.8 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ Def Slowbro Body Press vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 244-288 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So what do you think? I think Slowbro is very underrated right now, it has excellent utility unlike the other so-called support Pokemon that was mentioned and is my go-to support Pokemon whenever I'm building a team. It's so reliable and consistent, and always has a trick up its sleeve.

Just want to bring up Psychium Z Future Sight because it not only means you take less from Knock Off from Kingambit, Mega Tyranitar and Weavile, but it means you can easily one-time nuke a lot of Pokemon that would try to abuse you, such as Tapu Koko, Dragapult, Ogerpon-W, Raging Bolt and much more:

0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 258-304 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 258-304 (81.3 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 211-249 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raging Bolt: 225-265 (57.5 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 223-264 (58.2 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 213-252 (69.8 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Alomomola: 256-303 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 223-264 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 181-214 (60.9 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even if some of them aren't THAT remarkable, like Alomomola's, it's still a great option to have to make you less passive against the tier as a whole, make you more resilient versus Trick users like Iron Valiant, or the aforementioned Knock Off users.

 

[Toxic Ariados]

Just want to bring up Psychium Z Future Sight because it not only means you take less from Knock Off from Kingambit, Mega Tyranitar and Weavile, but it means you can easily one-time nuke a lot of Pokemon that would try to abuse you, such as Tapu Koko, Dragapult, Ogerpon-W, Raging Bolt and much more:

0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 258-304 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 258-304 (81.3 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 211-249 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raging Bolt: 225-265 (57.5 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 223-264 (58.2 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 213-252 (69.8 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Alomomola: 256-303 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 223-264 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Shattered Psyche (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 181-214 (60.9 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even if some of them aren't THAT remarkable, like Alomomola's, it's still a great option to have to make you less passive against the tier as a whole, make you more resilient versus Trick users like Iron Valiant, or the aforementioned Knock Off users.

I do think Z Future Sight is a solid option. You can probably pair it with something like Body Press to snipe the Knock Off users who do reduced damage to you due to the Z Crystal. Though using a Z move with little to no attack investment makes it quite lackluster, it's good for catching enemies on the switch but it likely won't OHKO. Its best target is probably Toxapex, who thinks that it might be safe from Future Sight. It's a good way to catch the opponent off guard and potentially take one of their Pokemon, but it lacks the immediate power that you would desire from a Z move.

 

[Patar136]

Honestly, I’d rather use Wigglytuff over Mega Audino. I have three good reasons.

1.) Competitive is an actual useful ability.

2.) Wigglytuff can hold an item and doesn’t take the Mega slot.

3.) Wigglytuff has a better movepool.

Just saying, if you really want a normal fairy type, go with Wigglytuff.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

guys i recently started playing an interesting fairy type and would like to talk about it

wowee look at this big big image

besides walling dragapult, azurill is a very powerful attacker that can go boom and snipe shit with its crazy coverage, as i will now proceed to demonstrate with these calcs that aren't separated by multiple line breaks:
252+ Atk Huge Power Azurill Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Buzzwole: 360-428 (86.1 - 102.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azurill Waterfall vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 158-186 (43.4 - 51%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azurill Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96+ Def Gholdengo: 506-596 (133.8 - 157.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

and look, it's super super tanky, nothing even ohkos it
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Azurill: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

everyone go try out this awesome cool and definitely good pokemon

 

[Toxic Ariados]

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azurill Waterfall vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 158-186 (43.4 - 51%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO

Somehow, still just as efficient as Audino Low Kick which has 120 Power and is QUAD EFFECTIVE! Wow, that's tragic...

 

[Patar136]

At least doesn't steal the mega slot, unlike you know who. So will adopt this little mouse as a pupil.

If only a certain Pokemon got regenerator like it was supposed to, maybe this would be a different conversation. Alas, the chain goes Wigglytuff, Azurill and finally Wigglytuff's obnoxious neighbor.

 

[slopcat]

disney corners yet another monopoly, this time over the interesting fairy type market. how will this affect the metagame?

 

[slopcat]

I appreciate the cooking Chef, though I'm not too sure about Porygon-Z and it actually got me thinking about Kommo-o. I think it might actually be pretty unexplored at the moment because it might be weirdly good at the current metagame. Anyone had any luck? Surely someone else noticed the chance.
Poryquack-Z has the issue of no defensive utility where you don't want to swap it into anything and it has to waste a turn to set up. Kommo-o matches up pretty well against a ton of top threats (Kingambit, Zard Y (remember, Weather Ball is a bullet move somehow), with Ice Punch it beats up all the grounds we got, Waterpon lacking Play Rough, etc). It's an excellent Knock Off absorber with its Z-Crystal, and after using its Z move it's still resistant to most priority (huge defense, resists Sucker Punch/Aqua Jet, immune to Bullet Punch). It sets up by nuking the opponent and then can keep swinging and while you're not going to have any option of recover, it has a huge amount of bulk backing it up so that means less. You know, the stuff we've all known for generations now, but the current metagame favors dragon types is what's changed.
Very little in the tier actually wants to revenge kill it and right now Fairy types aren't used too much, so the hard counter and bane of its existence is easier to take on than ever. Nobody is bringing Clefable, especially Unaware Clefable. If you prep for Valiant, Lele, and Diancie you should be good to go. It outspeeds Dragapult at +1 while OHKOing (and being immune to Shadow Ball for pivot opporunities should that need arise) and it's a mixed attacker that doesn't really get forced out by anything that isn't a fairy. It's immune to all but Make It Rain that Gholdengo wants to throw out, and that means Ghold is so much easier to play around due to the mindgames of that.

Basically with Tera gone I think the punchy pangolin might have the potential to be a top threat and ultimately you could even slot on poison jab for so your opponent never really knows what you might be packing. Next time I get a chance I'll try it out but I'm thinking Clanging Scales, Close Combat, Ice Punch, and maybe Flamethrower or something with enough speed to beat Pult at +1 with the rest in SpAtk and Atk. Maybe bring Mega Scizor for a bulky offense cleanup crew or something? U-Turn can bring him in safely and a lot of things that switch into Scizor don't want to eat a Clangerous Soulblaze after chip.

something else worth noting since i brought it to smasters but spdef lefties kommo is probably the hardest yard check of all time and it is absolute kommomium fodder. i ran it in sm with roar/roxic/dpunch which conveniently will also slam every zama and volc variant. i do agree you want kommomium 99% of the time but spdefties kommo was such a cool piece on some teams i thought it would be worth mentioning since ive seen a lot more kommo on ladder since this post LMFAO

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

something else worth noting since i brought it to smasters but spdef lefties kommo is probably the hardest yard check of all time and it is absolute kommomium fodder. i ran it in sm with roar/roxic/dpunch which conveniently will also slam every zama and volc variant. i do agree you want kommomium 99% of the time but spdefties kommo was such a cool piece on some teams i thought it would be worth mentioning since ive seen a lot more kommo on ladder since this post LMFAO

honestly i respect it but i'm still just a way bigger fan of kommonium. after a soulblaze it doesn't just check yard, it checks the whole yard + tusk + bolt structure (which i affectionately call "gangsta's paradox"), and it still gets similar free entry to yard that spdefties does. unless it's running air slash. fuck air slash yard. how dare you run both stabs in big 2025

 

[Toxic Ariados]

honestly i'm a bigger fan of kommonium. after a soulblaze it doesn't just check yard, it checks the whole yard + tusk + bolt structure (which i affectionately call "gangsta's paradox"), and it still gets similar free entry to yard that spdefties does. unless it's running air slash. fuck air slash yard. how dare you run both stabs in big 2025

On that note, am I the only Air Slash Charizard user in existence? It feels good to punish greedy Kommo-os and Dragonites or potentially flinch a Moltres down. That alone gives me enough incentive to run it.

 

[slopcat]

honestly i respect it but i'm still just a way bigger fan of kommonium. after a soulblaze it doesn't just check yard, it checks the whole yard + tusk + bolt structure (which i affectionately call "gangsta's paradox"), and it still gets similar free entry to yard that spdefties does. unless it's running air slash. fuck air slash yard. how dare you run both stabs in big 2025

nah literally like enjoy losing to tran or ttar or any passive damage u nerd since ur dropping the coverage of doom just so you can click the buttons that match colors

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

On that note, am I the only Air Slash Charizard user in existence? It feels good to punish greedy Kommo-os and Dragonites or potentially flinch a Moltres down. That alone gives me enough incentive to run it.

how dare you. history's greatest monster

 

[Patar136]

I meanwhile am that sucker that uses Flamethrower on Charizard because Ash Ketchum used that as his signature fire attack on his Charizard, and Charmeleon and Charmander before.

I still think that Mega Charizard Y rocks hard because it can fry so many Pokemon with its good power. It's not perfect but we still love it.

 

[Toxic Ariados]

I meanwhile am that sucker that uses Flamethrower on Charizard because Ash Ketchum used that as his signature fire attack on his Charizard, and Charmeleon and Charmander before.

The people running Eject Button Tyranitar and Ferrothorn won't know what hit 'em when they bring Ferrothorn in! Never mind the fact that no one sane would ever run Eject Button Tyranitar, it's the thought that counts!

 

[ant4456]

something else worth noting since i brought it to smasters but spdef lefties kommo is probably the hardest yard check of all time and it is absolute kommomium fodder. i ran it in sm with roar/roxic/dpunch which conveniently will also slam every zama and volc variant. i do agree you want kommomium 99% of the time but spdefties kommo was such a cool piece on some teams i thought it would be worth mentioning since ive seen a lot more kommo on ladder since this post LMFAO

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kommo-o: 200-236 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is a good Charizard counter if you can confidently check Air Slash variants with another Pokemon, but as far as I am concerned if it cannot wall Weather Ball, Fire Blast, Air Slash, Solar Beam and Focus Blast consistently it's not a consistent check, let alone the Hardest.

SpDef Moltres walls all of those, for instance.