Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

enjoyment: 3
competitiveness: 2
kingambit: 5
kyurem: 5
ogerpon-W: 5
Zamazenta: 1
raging bolt: 3
Gliscor: 3
Tera Blast: 5

gotta be honest here this metagame has not been fun lately, feels borderline impossible to experiment when all the top tiers are absurdly broken. Hard to build creative teams when dondozo and ting lu are required to not lose to cheese
 
Last edited:
Enjoyment: 8
Competitivness: 8

Kingambit: 2
Can still reverse sweep in the right circumstances but I think the meta has adapted decently with flame body/encore/physical walls in general, fairyblast can do silly things vs zama and tusk but you at least have to use tera on him unless you go mono dark or without kowtow for the entire game; Tera ghost is prolly the hardest one to beat if oppo plays correctly at least imo.

Ogerpon-W: 2
Damage output can be insane and hella restricting vs stall/fat yet there is some stall topping the ladder every now and then so there has to be some way to stem her (mainly amoonguss), being item locked hurts against hazard stack and 350 is decent speed but nothing outstanding so fast mons can force her out taking hazard dmg next turn/get the revenge kill.

Kyurem: 1
Opinion is the same as it was during last suspect, too item reliant, with common weaknesses, middling speed and is hazard weak, can sweep in the right circumstances but it need a decent amount of support imo, and I haven't seen insane things from it in tourney recently (gotta admit that I haven't seen every spl replay yet so if I have missed some ballsy Kyurem performances I'm sorry).

Zamazenta: 1
Can't fit STAB/crunch/ice fang/heavy slam/stone edge all in the same moveslot so there will always be something missing; generally with a decently bulky ghost on your team you'll be fine.

Raging Bolt: 2
Very high spAtk and good bulk but it's very linear atm, maybe there could be some set with Tera blast or weather ball ice paired with glowking that can push it over the edge but idk tbh.

Gliscor: 2
Can be annoying but it's needed for stall imo.

Tera Blast: 2
Could have voted 3 cuz with the right tb you can entirely flip a match and sweep on the spot especially if oppo has exhausted tera but I really enjoy this metagame in it's entirety and the move can still be deadweight if you have to tera something else to avoid your game go south so have decided to vote 2, wouldn't mind seeing it suspected tho.

I know I'm in the minority but I do enjoy SV a lot rn (top on par with BW) so high enjoyment and low scores on the mons are just a consequence of that. For competitivness I haven't seen strange or undeserved winners on tours so that's the main reason for that score.

Idk if there are dead times for tours soon so maybe we can create a different ladder with TB banned and volc (and obv regieleki) in to have a compromise between who wants kyurem out, who wants TB out, who wants Kyurem in and who wants Volc back, as with TB out and Volc in kyurem should be manageable for who founds it really annoying rn, just an idea tho.

Yapping over, Peace and love.
 
Seraphyde said:
This sounds like actual cancer. I’m not the biggest fan of Woger but holy fuck this would be an obnoxious metagame.

Enjoyment: 6
Competitiveness: 7
Kingambit: 2
Kyurem: 3
Ogerpon-W: 2
Zamazenta: 5
Raging Bolt: 3
Gliscor: 5
Tera Blast: 5

I am pretty apathetic to most offensive threats in the tier now. I think Raging Neck is actually worse than Kingambit due to having more balanced bulk and weaknesses that are less easily exploitable, it can also make itself harder to kill with CM which is something that Gambit can’t do. Kyurem is just another Pokemon in the cartel of “Click Dragon Dance to win instantly” and I don’t consider it particularly worse than Moon or DNite.

To this day I still find it baffling how people can not only consider Shitmazenta balanced but even an actively healthy part of the metagame. There has never been a Pokemon outside of Ubers with such an obscene combination of bulk, speed, and attack and a lot of times all it has to do is click ID once, maybe tera, and win the game. I fucking hate this thing.

I fully support banning Tera Blast. It would objectively mitigate the problems surrounding Tera and potentially allow for some drops.

Terapagos would be a beyond cancerous addition to the metagame, becoming a brainless, guaranteed Rapid Spin due to Tera Shell making it impossible to immediately offensively pressure and making spinblocking basically impossible due to Dark Pulse/Ice Beam coverage.
Click to expand...
Okay I've long accepted that Terapagos won't be coming back to Gen 9 because of tiering policy, but claiming that Rapid Spinning is what would make it a "cancerous" addition to the Metagame is just projecting this continued hatred of the move onto a mon who would be obnoxious for completely different reasons, if at all. Tera Shell only works at full health, on a mon with no recovery outside of Rest, so for TS to determine a spin would require coming in with Boots intact and not getting tapped on the Switch. Terapagos without its Stellar form is essentially a spin on Dragonite: sharing the neutral-defensive profile and damage reducing ability at full-health, both have middling unboosted Damage, Terapagos not speeding up in its boost in favor of Bulk, while also lacking priority or the option to Tera for a new STAB (since whatever Gen Terapagos is allowed in OU won't be one where it can use its Stellar form).

Zamazenta I can understand being frustrated to fight, but being confused at its competitive value and perception as healthy is a much harder sell. Zama simply does not have all the traits described at the same time, so its set and usage requires understanding what holes it covers for a team to get any value out of it: AoA with Boots/Leftovers is iffy for power, Offensive items like Band would have longevity to watch, IronPress hits like a noodle if Fighting STAB doesn't work, and its overall isn't as obscene in practice considering it has to invest in Speed even with its tier and is splitting the rest or going 0 ATK in some cases (leaving its offenses in the range of something like uninvested Glowing for stats, and without the high power moves/coverage that usually float something such as Dragapult). IronPress also has coverage issues, considering how weak it is already into non-STAB hits.

0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Sinistcha: 102-120 (29.4 - 34.6%) -- 7.3% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 170-202 (53.6 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (survives switching in to Wisp)
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Can't 2HKO so gets T-Waved or Future Sight set on it).
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 90-106 (23.6 - 27.8%) -- 83.3% chance to 4HKO
+1 88 Def Zamazenta Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 85-101 (22.2 - 26.4%) -- 14.9% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 106-126 (28 - 33.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO

Wall of Calcs point being that Iron Press Zamazenta, the only one with any ability to "break" teams rather than clean them (in which case a lot more was at work than the Dog), is almost a non-issue for nearly anything that shrugs off Body Press 1 or more times with a means to cripple it in turn, which by nature is going to be the majority of Physical Walls who by nature need progress-making tools that will work into Zama as well as most other things they try to block out (3 of the above have Recovery, 3 have Pivot moves, 2 have the potential to set-up, and 4-5 can carry a Status that will absolutely ruin Zamazenta). This mon is good but if it's repeatedly running away with games (whether you play with or against it), that's a skill issue for the losing player.

Also going to throw in a mention others have had in past: the Nicknames like "Shitmazenta" are not funny, they're not clever, they don't emphasize any point, and actively take away from your arguments. It comes across like someone in their youth learning their first swear and throwing it around like confetti, and if these posts are made in earnest and not meant to be bait, I would advise dropping them for your own sake.
 
pika pal said:
Okay I've long accepted that Terapagos won't be coming back to Gen 9 because of tiering policy, but claiming that Rapid Spinning is what would make it a "cancerous" addition to the Metagame is just projecting this continued hatred of the move onto a mon who would be obnoxious for completely different reasons, if at all. Tera Shell only works at full health, on a mon with no recovery outside of Rest, so for TS to determine a spin would require coming in with Boots intact and not getting tapped on the Switch. Terapagos without its Stellar form is essentially a spin on Dragonite: sharing the neutral-defensive profile and damage reducing ability at full-health, both have middling unboosted Damage, Terapagos not speeding up in its boost in favor of Bulk, while also lacking priority or the option to Tera for a new STAB (since whatever Gen Terapagos is allowed in OU won't be one where it can use its Stellar form).

Zamazenta I can understand being frustrated to fight, but being confused at its competitive value and perception as healthy is a much harder sell. Zama simply does not have all the traits described at the same time, so its set and usage requires understanding what holes it covers for a team to get any value out of it: AoA with Boots/Leftovers is iffy for power, Offensive items like Band would have longevity to watch, IronPress hits like a noodle if Fighting STAB doesn't work, and its overall isn't as obscene in practice considering it has to invest in Speed even with its tier and is splitting the rest or going 0 ATK in some cases (leaving its offenses in the range of something like uninvested Glowing for stats, and without the high power moves/coverage that usually float something such as Dragapult). IronPress also has coverage issues, considering how weak it is already into non-STAB hits.

0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Sinistcha: 102-120 (29.4 - 34.6%) -- 7.3% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 170-202 (53.6 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (survives switching in to Wisp)
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Can't 2HKO so gets T-Waved or Future Sight set on it).
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Pecharunt: 90-106 (23.6 - 27.8%) -- 83.3% chance to 4HKO
+1 88 Def Zamazenta Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 85-101 (22.2 - 26.4%) -- 14.9% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 106-126 (28 - 33.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO

Wall of Calcs point being that Iron Press Zamazenta, the only one with any ability to "break" teams rather than clean them (in which case a lot more was at work than the Dog), is almost a non-issue for nearly anything that shrugs off Body Press 1 or more times with a means to cripple it in turn, which by nature is going to be the majority of Physical Walls who by nature need progress-making tools that will work into Zama as well as most other things they try to block out (3 of the above have Recovery, 3 have Pivot moves, 2 have the potential to set-up, and 4-5 can carry a Status that will absolutely ruin Zamazenta). This mon is good but if it's repeatedly running away with games (whether you play with or against it), that's a skill issue for the losing player.

Also going to throw in a mention others have had in past: the Nicknames like "Shitmazenta" are not funny, they're not clever, they don't emphasize any point, and actively take away from your arguments. It comes across like someone in their youth learning their first swear and throwing it around like confetti, and if these posts are made in earnest and not meant to be bait, I would advise dropping them for your own sake.
Click to expand...
Terapagos won't come back unless tera gets banned like I said, which if that does happen its not gonna happen anytime soon unless you all manifest a tera suspect

Anyway i'm surprised some of you forgot how absurd of a mon terapagos stellar is

TLDR: if you guys want terapagos down here ban tera
 
Last edited:
Banning tera blast would set a tempo of Tera control that we could then use as a launching point towards banning the turtles mega form which is not totally without precedent.

But it seems low priority and I think most agree. I support writing it in but I think we'd be best served minimizing the debate over it until we get to a point where we feel the only thing left are the debates over signature moves and similar- including potential banning tera turtle.

My opinion
 
Cape Canaveral said:
verifiably untrue if you look at SPL and recent teams that have peaked ladder. its fair that you dont enjoy the meta though.
Click to expand...
ofc there are creative teams that do peak the ladder, be these are few and far between. Of course, if you scroll through the RMTs you will see lots of creative teams, but of course you will, that's where people post them after all. Even then, despite these teams having 1 or 2 novel choices they still mostly just revolve around the exact same cores, I can understand where you are coming from tho, theres not NO innovation.
 
Supraz said:
Enjoyment: 8
Competitivness: 8

Kingambit: 2
Can still reverse sweep in the right circumstances but I think the meta has adapted decently with flame body/encore/physical walls in general, fairyblast can do silly things vs zama and tusk but you at least have to use tera on him unless you go mono dark or without kowtow for the entire game; Tera ghost is prolly the hardest one to beat if oppo plays correctly at least imo.

Ogerpon-W: 2
Damage output can be insane and hella restricting vs stall/fat yet there is some stall topping the ladder every now and then so there has to be some way to stem her (mainly amoonguss), being item locked hurts against hazard stack and 350 is decent speed but nothing outstanding so fast mons can force her out taking hazard dmg next turn/get the revenge kill.

Kyurem: 1
Opinion is the same as it was during last suspect, too item reliant, with common weaknesses, middling speed and is hazard weak, can sweep in the right circumstances but it need a decent amount of support imo, and I haven't seen insane things from it in tourney recently (gotta admit that I haven't seen every spl replay yet so if I have missed some ballsy Kyurem performances I'm sorry).

Zamazenta: 1
Can't fit STAB/crunch/ice fang/heavy slam/stone edge all in the same moveslot so there will always be something missing; generally with a decently bulky ghost on your team you'll be fine.

Raging Bolt: 2
Very high spAtk and good bulk but it's very linear atm, maybe there could be some set with Tera blast or weather ball ice paired with glowking that can push it over the edge but idk tbh.

Gliscor: 2
Can be annoying but it's needed for stall imo.

Tera Blast: 2
Could have voted 3 cuz with the right tb you can entirely flip a match and sweep on the spot especially if oppo has exhausted tera but I really enjoy this metagame in it's entirety and the move can still be deadweight if you have to tera something else to avoid your game go south so have decided to vote 2, wouldn't mind seeing it suspected tho.

I know I'm in the minority but I do enjoy SV a lot rn (top on par with BW) so high enjoyment and low scores on the mons are just a consequence of that. For competitivness I haven't seen strange or undeserved winners on tours so that's the main reason for that score.

Idk if there are dead times for tours soon so maybe we can create a different ladder with TB banned and volc (and obv regieleki) in to have a compromise between who wants kyurem out, who wants TB out, who wants Kyurem in and who wants Volc back, as with TB out and Volc in kyurem should be manageable for who founds it really annoying rn, just an idea tho.

Yapping over, Peace and love.
Click to expand...
Quick! what’s a Kyurem switch in? Oops wrong set
 
JackRG said:
ofc there are creative teams that do peak the ladder, be these are few and far between. Of course, if you scroll through the RMTs you will see lots of creative teams, but of course you will, that's where people post them after all. Even then, despite these teams having 1 or 2 novel choices they still mostly just revolve around the exact same cores, I can understand where you are coming from tho, theres not NO innovation.
Click to expand...
yeah, i see your point. def not as easy to be diverse or innovate in very meaningful ways as gen 8 let's say. i think maybe you cant expect too much tho, by now the roles that are most relevant in gen 9 are so well defined its kinda hard to break the mold and idk if thats fixable or even if it needs to be fixed compared to most other metagames
 
Hey I'm going to post my thoughts and my tier survey here. I made the cut in the Gliscor's suspect test (and said it in the survey) so I think I am a "qualified" opinion (this is a question to the council, not a way to say "I'm better than all of you" my opinion has the same value as anyone else's one.) If not, at least Imma share it here.

My enjoyment and competitive ratings are both 6/10. Kyuremless meta was an 8 in both imo. I'm talking only about ladder, since while I like to watch tournaments, I don't have the knowledge nor the experience to talk about the situation there.

Kingambit - 5

Has been one of the main reasons if not the main for the threat saturation and challenges teambuilding since day one in this generation (aside from tera, tbh). The tier would be 10x better without it in my opinion.

Kyurem - 5

Third time's the charm let's pray. Too much threats in the tier and without stuff like Volc (a mon I would have in OU if it tera / tb didn't exist) is even harder to tackle.

Ogerpon - Wellspring - 3

I'm not the biggest fan of this Pokémon, I made a post about it and while I do not think is the biggest priority, I understand the reasoning behind a suspect test for it.

Raging Bolt - 2

Could be broken if a lot of stuff gets banned. At the moment it seems really manageable from my experience playing.

Zamazenta - 1

Same level of "brokeness" as Great Tusk or Lando. The three of them are good, important glue mons. Zamazenta is a nice piece of SVOU rather than a problem and even if some Pokémon get banned from the tier common Pokemon can check it.

Tera Blast - 5

I rather want this banned to shake up the tier than from being broken by itself. And it would free Volc and potentially lead to another tera suspect in the future. Regieleki will be irrelevant imho, it's a weaker Deo-S with a bit more of speed and 0 coverage + less utility.

Other stuff - Terastalization

In hindsight I shoud have proposed other Pokémon like Hamurott or Ting Lu, that should maybe be kept in the radar.
 
>people still crying about being Ceaselessly Edged in 2025
SamuGOD.png
 
Ting Lu isnt holding the meta together (he is one of the best Raging Bolt check though, which is respectable) and in fact is a mediocre and overrated mon for me personally. There is obviously 0 need to Ban it and due to the Bolt thing a Ban would indeed make the meta worse.
 
Eeveeto said:
Ting Lu isnt holding the meta together (he is one of the best Raging Bolt check though, which is respectable) and in fact is a mediocre and overrated mon for me personally. There is obviously 0 need to Ban it and due to the Bolt thing a Ban would indeed make the meta worse.
Click to expand...
lu also one of the best checks to moth, darkrai, pult, ghold, crown, and moon just to name a few. I haven't even mentioned everything else it can check with tera
 
Enjoyment: 3
Competitiveness: 3
Kingambit: 2
Kyurem: 4
Ogerpon-W: 3
Zamazenta: 1
Raging Bolt: 2
Gliscor: 2
Tera Blast: 1



Enjoyment
It is what it is....too many things that add up to just make it not that great of an experience.

Competitiveness
Excessive variability and competitiveness don't go hand in hand for me.

:kingambit:
Gambit is fine. It has enough consistent counterplay and is extremely predictable.

:kyurem:
Loaded Dice DD is probably too strong for the meta. The other sets are manageable but this one is always problematic as it's relatively easy to set up given it's bulk and resistances coupled with tera. Teams without strong priority or some kinda of consistent speed control get run through by this set pretty easily and it still does well versus the teams that have these.

:ogerpon-wellspring:
Borderline but it's inability to boost it's speed while retaining decent coverage or power keeps in check as far as the meta is concerned.

:zamazenta:
Same as gambit.

:raging-bolt:
Same as gambit

:gliscor:
Always annoying but annoying doesn't mean broken. Both offensive and defensive sets have consistent counterplay. The defensive counterplay isn't as good comparatively but there is enough out there to get the job done to the point where it isn't overwhelming teams.

Tera Blast
Banning it does nothing to solves peoples gripes with what causes it to even be a viable moveslot option which is Tera. it wouldn't be banned as per tiering policy as it's clear the move is inherently not broken and every argument attributed towards banning it is a viable reasoning that can be applied to Tera itself. Banning this would be the biggest nothingburger for the meta and opens its own can of worms around adhering to the policy. Nah

Other Stuff

:lugia:

This mon is garbage and could easily see this going dropping to UU in terms of usage if allowed in OU. Defensively it doesn't deal well with status, OU is littered with Dark types, Knock Off, Status moves...etc. It's decent at phazing, can tank hits and could be good as a check to a number of the stonger mons given it's defensive profile and multiscale, but this is all it really brings defensively. Offensively as a CM sweeper it might have merit sometimes. It realistically needs to +3 to be a huge threat and it's also a tera hog whilst tera isn't really doing much to mitigate the weaknesses it does have. Free big bird already.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top