There's no indication that it is permanent, even if very likely. I'd doubt the usage of "entirety of Gen 9" would be used on Youtube, Twitter, and Smogon posts if it wasn't intentional. Personally, I'd imagine most people made some amount of peace with Tera a while ago, and blast is apparently still an option down the line. Realistically, could a suspect be done to just truly show "guys look theres no smogon shadow boogeyman, people just dont have a majority in wanting this shit banned"? Sure, but it would be, for the most part, a waste of time in an already imperfect suspect process that will suck up hours of laddering.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Would a suspect to restrict Tera be on the cards? Iirc in the Tera suspect Tera Preview got a higher vote than all other options
If you really don't like this decision, I think u should just play old gens instead. Theres no need to fixate on 9 when there are 8 other gens for you to play. Gen 9 is what is it is, and unfortunately, that won't be changing
No matter how you look at it there was never a chance tera or tera blast was going to get enough support for a suspect. I don't like it and absolutely think it should have gotten gutted 2 years ago but it's gotten a lot more manageable over time (call it getting better at the meta or something but it's not that I still suck ass). This is really just the OU heads telling us to shut up about it ngl.
Tera preview has been pretty much off the table the last 18 months. It causes a lot more harm in singles and eliminates some of the skillful elements of it. This is touched on in the post, too.
Tera Blast is what is still on the table, however.
Speaking as one of the longest tenured Gen 5 players, this is really off the mark. Like genuinely please play both tiers and understand before making bizarre comparisons between a logically inconsistent complex ban to save a fragmented archetype and a whole generational mechanic.
Every single tier leader supported proceeding this way — it wasn’t because we all want to be unique or make our tiers worse, believe me.
I'm all for "nothing ever happens" in other contexts but there's always an avenue for change when it comes to our formats, even directly confirmed in the announcement/attached video. Keep the faith.
This tiering announcement is likely a blessing in disguise. Now that tiering administrators have come out to agree that banning Tera is off the cards, it reduces the likelihood of people voting Do Not Ban on Kyurem in a third suspect test 'cause they want Tera banned instead. This might be THE move that helps us finally change the tier for the better since the number of players voting DNB for a suspect with the hopes of banning Tera no longer have their favoured option since it's no longer on the table. This decision could be what breaks the deadlock of inaction.
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Yeah, I definitely know something tiering related WILL happen, and hopefully soon, but honestly I don't dislike where the meta is right now. It's not perfect and it sure as hell isn't anywhere close to something like gen 8 but it's not a complete and utter dumpster fire like a certain metagame I can think of *cough* gen 7
still stand by this wholeheartedly. I want gliscor out bc it pisses me off constantly but putting personal feelings aside the logical next move is definitely either kyurem test #3 or #4 (lost count) or gholdengo. Gambit is definitely worth considering too but ngl i use it as a crutch for bad teambuilding too much to let it go super easy (if it makes it to suspect I will probably vote ban anyways)
Unfortunate, but not unexpected. You could have just came out with this years ago, or whenever it was, and saved us the trouble of maybe hoping for something.
Yeah, then. Mid-late 2023.
I'd argue the timing of that wasn't good, either. The Tera suspect waited too long and a lot of people who didn't like it had already largely left the tier by then. We also had the much more recent nat dex Tera ban much later, which was arguably the only other opportunity to rexamine it. But we predictably never did anything with that, either. I don't blame the handling of gen 9 in most cases since Gamefreak left us with an unbalanced mess of a generation. The job in general has been mostly well done. But I still kinda dislike the disparity between how the generational gimmicks were treated in gens 8 and 9.
I might take more of a break from the tier myself. Hearing this sort of news was discouraging, not because it was surprising, but because it wasn't. I was rather hoping for some sort of a further direction on tiering instead. A reason for some hope. It's not that we couldn't balance the tier to a place I'd feel better with even with Tera. But it would require more bans, several of which I feel are very unlikely to happen any time soon given the way a lot of people are looking at the tier. I'm just kind of tired of it, personally. The balance is really frusterating.
The Tera suspect was done quite literally as soon as it was allowed. It was the first suspect of the generation. Stats also disprove the latter bit of this. If anything, I wish it was done a bit later, but we couldn’t with SPL, OST, etc at the start of 2023.
Just got top 15 on the ladder using (replay from the match) my Alolan - Muk team! Pretty happy all things considered, this game it really cooked
I'm thinking about making a, RMT is it called? A post talking about the team, and how I think A-Muk is still underated in OU, would you guys be interested in it?
I'm thinking about making a, RMT is it called? A post talking about the team, and how I think A-Muk is still underated in OU, would you guys be interested in it?
Gladly! I’m always interested in seeing creative mons or sets that do well in tour play, and I’d bet quite a few others here feel the same way.
Is this new? I had been dicussion alternative RM sets for months, especially Tera Fairy. It's a great defensive typing and Dark/Fairy is amazing offensively as well. The main weakness is Tera reliance. But even then, you can still get enough value in games you don't activate Tera just through stuff like Knock Off. Fairy TB will be viable until and unless TB is banned. And even then, Fairy will likely still be a good defensive typing on bulky RM sets.
I don't care to turn this thread into an argument, but I will mention there were plenty of things that were banned/adressed before Tera was in this gen. The discussions people had at the beginning of the gen were full of people who said it was too early. Then one day, there was a narrative on here (not from you to be fair) that it was too late. This isn't really your fault, but the discourse surrounding Tera in this gen has irked me for awhile now.
While we could waste a lot of words debating about when the optimal time actually was, waiting longer wouldn't have done anything positive towards a Tera ban unless it was related to the nat dex ban.
Absolutely. Always fun to read these
I read all the RMT of top players and save the teams in my builder, so yes, I'm interested
Hence why I said the first suspect. We quickbanned some obviously broken Pokemon, but we could not (and would not regardless) quickban a generational mechanic like this. We had to put out a survey and a PR thread and various other forms of discussion before we were even allowed to suspect Tera. This was basically a full-time job for me the first few months — anyone claiming the Tera suspect should’ve been sooner is asking for an impossibility and just not in-the-know.
I'm going to be blunt here. From the outside, this feels like it is a recap of a closed-door discussion with a long-winded way of saying, “we don’t feel like dealing with this anymore.”
A few key takeaways from this nonsense:
It’s a complete slap in the face to everyone who actually put in the effort to analyze and debate Tera’s impact. Instead of engaging with the metagame in good faith, they’re shutting the door and telling people to accept it.
If anything, this kind of approach just kills long-term engagement. Why even pretend Smogon cares about metagame balance when the tiering leadership is just going to ignore the root issue and ban Pokémon around it instead?
They can try to frame this as “finalizing a decision,” but it’s really just avoiding responsibility. And the worst part? They’re never going to acknowledge how this will continue to create problems—problems they’ll “fix” by banning even more Pokémon while leaving the real issue untouched.
That’s what makes this so frustrating—it’s not even about what they decided, it’s about how dismissive they were of the entire discussion.
NatDex at least wrestled with the question. SV OU just slammed the door shut. That’s the difference.
A few key takeaways from this nonsense:
- “It’s too late in the generation” → That’s not a real argument, that’s just an excuse to avoid backlash. They’re still suspect testing individual Pokémon like Kingambit, so it’s not like tiering action suddenly stops after Year 2. If the meta still has clear, unresolved issues, then it’s never “too late” to fix them.
- “Every tier leader agreed” → Cool, but that’s not an actual justification. That’s just an appeal to authority with zero supporting evidence. Where’s the deep metagame analysis? Where’s the counter to the real issues Tera causes? Just because all the decision-makers agree with each other doesn’t mean they made the right call.
- “People have adapted” → This is the worst excuse of them all. Just because players had to adjust doesn’t mean the mechanic is healthy. People “adapted” to Dynamax too, and that didn’t stop it from being objectively busted. Players will always find ways to cope with broken mechanics—it doesn’t mean they should be left untouched.
- “There was never enough support for a ban” → Yeah, because they never actually tested a middle-ground solution. The only suspect was a full ban vs. no ban, with no serious consideration for Tera Preview, Tera Type Limits, or Tera Blast bans. They ran one suspect early in the generation, saw that 60% of players didn’t vote to remove it, and just never revisited it properly.
- For those interested in the YouTube talk with Finch and Srn, the most important part was around the 10:00 mark, where they discuss Tera’s impact on flipping matchups and snowballing into sweeps.
My “strawman” TL;DR of their logic:
This is the worst kind of gaslighting. Of course you’re going to make the wrong call sometimes—because Tera is inherently a hidden, unpredictable mechanic that actively rewards volatility.
When every Pokémon in the game has 18 different possible defensive/offensive pivots at all times, you’re not making a “bad read.” You’re being forced into a guessing game where no amount of skill can completely mitigate the risk.
That’s not competitive integrity. That’s just slot machine-tier gameplay.
It’s a complete slap in the face to everyone who actually put in the effort to analyze and debate Tera’s impact. Instead of engaging with the metagame in good faith, they’re shutting the door and telling people to accept it.
If anything, this kind of approach just kills long-term engagement. Why even pretend Smogon cares about metagame balance when the tiering leadership is just going to ignore the root issue and ban Pokémon around it instead?
They can try to frame this as “finalizing a decision,” but it’s really just avoiding responsibility. And the worst part? They’re never going to acknowledge how this will continue to create problems—problems they’ll “fix” by banning even more Pokémon while leaving the real issue untouched.
That’s what makes this so frustrating—it’s not even about what they decided, it’s about how dismissive they were of the entire discussion.
NatDex at least wrestled with the question. SV OU just slammed the door shut. That’s the difference.
The worst part of this decision is including Ubers and LC. Not only is anti-Tera a much more popular sentiment in SV Ubers (January survey below)
, but it also, to my understanding would literally be fine. To my understanding transitive property would not apply, ie. this wouldn't effect any other tiers. Essentially, this just takes off one of the more popular positions from the arsenal of that tier's tiering. I also do not see why LC needs to be included either.
Now, I know it's a Tiering Policy thing but:
1. This doesn't even actually violate it, but an honorary Fuck Tiering Policy for the road
2. Who Cares
Results > Else. Not only is this really not an actual problem, ie. we've already solved the "precedent", this wouldn't affect OU and other tiers, but we're just removing the possibilities of potentially more enjoyable and competitive metagames for no reason other than implementing a "clean" solution. "What if little Timmy gets on the website and sees it's banned in Ubers but not OU and, god forbid, has to ask someone else a question?" type beat decision.
This feels like a bit of a precursor decision to the possibility of a reworking of transitive property perhaps for Gen 10, or maybe it's not and this is just cleanliness for the sake of cleanliness. Either way, this feels pretty short-sighted, and unlike the meme-worthy take of "this is anti-democratic" for SV OU context, this honestly quite arguable is the context of a tier like SV Ubers where anti-Tera is a viable position that, with more nurturing and time, could have eventually gotten Tera banned, unless we believe in truly static opinions at this rate, which I don't.
Now I don't really give that much of a shit since I don't even play Ubers or LC, so don't take this as me trying to be self-interested. I'm not playing these tiers either way. I just saw this and thought it was a weird (and bad) decision, and think it's a disservice to the people who will care.
As for the positive side to this. The best part of this decision is finally ripping off the band-aid and removing all possible copium for any of us who were still holding onto some of it, and removing it as part of the discourse in Suspect Tests.
I think the actual reasoning provided for the decision is pretty easy to criticize, and the road to get here was pretty criticizable, but at least it's finally over. If you're like me and cannot stand SV OU's Fake Ass, then it's time to just leave. We have plenty of good, quality metagames to play.
, but it also, to my understanding would literally be fine. To my understanding transitive property would not apply, ie. this wouldn't effect any other tiers. Essentially, this just takes off one of the more popular positions from the arsenal of that tier's tiering. I also do not see why LC needs to be included either.
Now, I know it's a Tiering Policy thing but:
1. This doesn't even actually violate it, but an honorary Fuck Tiering Policy for the road
2. Who Cares
Results > Else. Not only is this really not an actual problem, ie. we've already solved the "precedent", this wouldn't affect OU and other tiers, but we're just removing the possibilities of potentially more enjoyable and competitive metagames for no reason other than implementing a "clean" solution. "What if little Timmy gets on the website and sees it's banned in Ubers but not OU and, god forbid, has to ask someone else a question?" type beat decision.
This feels like a bit of a precursor decision to the possibility of a reworking of transitive property perhaps for Gen 10, or maybe it's not and this is just cleanliness for the sake of cleanliness. Either way, this feels pretty short-sighted, and unlike the meme-worthy take of "this is anti-democratic" for SV OU context, this honestly quite arguable is the context of a tier like SV Ubers where anti-Tera is a viable position that, with more nurturing and time, could have eventually gotten Tera banned, unless we believe in truly static opinions at this rate, which I don't.
Now I don't really give that much of a shit since I don't even play Ubers or LC, so don't take this as me trying to be self-interested. I'm not playing these tiers either way. I just saw this and thought it was a weird (and bad) decision, and think it's a disservice to the people who will care.
As for the positive side to this. The best part of this decision is finally ripping off the band-aid and removing all possible copium for any of us who were still holding onto some of it, and removing it as part of the discourse in Suspect Tests.
I think the actual reasoning provided for the decision is pretty easy to criticize, and the road to get here was pretty criticizable, but at least it's finally over. If you're like me and cannot stand SV OU's Fake Ass, then it's time to just leave. We have plenty of good, quality metagames to play.
Maybe if you did not read the post, follow tiering proceedings all generation, and assumed bad faith it could seem this way. The amount of due dilligence done on this topic was greater than that of anything else throughout my tenure on council, which has spanned across 5 TLs and 4 generations over nearly ten years.
This is just rampant misinformation, by the way. Tera Preview and differnt limitations were part of the only Tera suspect that happened.
Tera Blast is also still on the table and this was made explicitly clear in the post you are trying to critique.
Perhaps instead of bolding random words and trying to make it out like volunteers are acting in bad faith while ignoring so much context and fact, you can consult my literal hundreds of posts on the topic -- I will be happy to reiterate them if you (or anyone else) has specific questions, too. The point of this is all to be transparent after all. I literally have a thread for office hours, PMs always open, and engage here more than all of my predecessors combined -- implying this was done as a cover-up or to be dismissive rather than just for the betterment of our metagames and as a verdict on an awkward discussion in limho is wild. I have nothing to hide here and I doubt any other tiers do either.
And this should go without saying, but this was not an OU only/specific announcement, so obviously nobody got into tier specific stuff. Nitpicking that is just silly.
I think we knew Tera would remain no matter what, though the confirmation still hits home.
I voted Tera to stay in the original suspect and I would have probably voted the same anywhere in the last 2 years, yet it does suck knowing that there was never a 2nd suspect. We for sure had a lot of suspects, and Home coming out as late as it did probably messed up timings somewhere. Even then, its hard to feel like my vote was not influenced by the promise of a second suspect. A lot of players left after the first tera test, a quick scan through the list of qualified voters will show that, so surely Tera was going to stay here. Yet a 2nd suspect would have been nice if only for confirmation.
I think all I can hope for is that in the future, if such a divisive mechanic is added again and with us knowing stuff like DLCs and Pokemon Home is coming our way, we can have an idea of a timeframe for potential resuspects rather than just trusting that surely one will happen.
I voted Tera to stay in the original suspect and I would have probably voted the same anywhere in the last 2 years, yet it does suck knowing that there was never a 2nd suspect. We for sure had a lot of suspects, and Home coming out as late as it did probably messed up timings somewhere. Even then, its hard to feel like my vote was not influenced by the promise of a second suspect. A lot of players left after the first tera test, a quick scan through the list of qualified voters will show that, so surely Tera was going to stay here. Yet a 2nd suspect would have been nice if only for confirmation.
I think all I can hope for is that in the future, if such a divisive mechanic is added again and with us knowing stuff like DLCs and Pokemon Home is coming our way, we can have an idea of a timeframe for potential resuspects rather than just trusting that surely one will happen.
My goal isn't a personal attack here. There are legitimate gripes that infinite due diligence isn't solving.
This is a very fair feeling and I think a lot of people feel similarly, but sadly is impossible to give timeframes. I wish I could roadmap an entire generation and meet everyone's communication needs, but there are too many unknown variables. I wish we did not have the rapid release model as it was easier during earlier generations.
We have no clue when a DLC, Home, etc. will come out and we also have no clue about the long-term projections of the tier. We also cannot have a major mechanical suspect overlap with an SPL, WCoP, SCL, OST, OLT, etc. There are so many logistical hurdles that come.
I expected mid-late 2023 to have a second Tera suspect, but support was roughly half of what I expected on an outright ban and the support for Tera Preview was dwarfed dramatically. Eventually, Tera Blast got some support (especially w/ Volcarona, Regieleki, etc. topics coming and going) and there was just never any opening for another Tera suspect because other things always had more support or it had too little both internally and externally.
Tera Blast will likely not reach a higher score on future surveys now that I'm not here forcing the conversation every other page but can you affirm whether it is also permanently off the table? I skimmed the post tbh but didn't see it mentioned.
This reminds me of when I was into crypto years ago and devs would make an announcement that there would be an announcement (to build excitement and pump price) and then the announcement would be literally nothing. Hahaha but no this isn't an awful decision in my opinion I personally support tera staying especially this far into the gen. But making this formal announcement should keep people more focused on what options are on the table. Ban tera-ban posters from here on out.
This reminds me of when I was into crypto years ago and devs would make an announcement that there would be an announcement (to build excitement and pump price) and then the announcement would be literally nothing. Hahaha but no this isn't an awful decision in my opinion I personally support tera staying especially this far into the gen. But making this formal announcement should keep people more focused on what options are on the table. Ban tera-ban posters from here on out.