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OU RBY OU Wrap - Community Pulse

Peasounay said:
It's not a buzzword. The three main Wrappers Dragonite, Victreebel, and Cloyster (you can throw Moltres in there too) sit in this mid 70-90 base speed range where they outspeed Exeggutor, Chansey, Snorlax, and Rhydon, but still get outsped by six of the top 11 Pokémon (not counting Jolteon).

You don't have to go as far as running Slowbro to be a "slow team". Mie Egg Don is slow because if you put Starmie to sleep, the only thing left that outspeeds Wrappers is Tauros. And while Tauros can do a lot of damage to Wrappers, it can't guarantee a paralysis, which is really what you're looking for.

Wrappers aren’t as terrifying as you're making them out to be. Most other structures are fine against Wrap because every time you add something faster than a Wrapper, it forces your opponent to go out of his way to paralyse it, which isn't easy to pull off (especially for Wrappers that risk getting paralyzed themselves). If you're running the usual Lead - (Ex) Big 4 - Fast 6th, and you know your opponent might go for Wrap, sleeping Chansey instead of your Psychic Lead to keep a third fast Pokemon will usually do the trick. That's just basic Pokemon prep.

So I don't really get what you mean by "strong matchups against non-slow teams." What teams are those exactly?

As for Agility "All-in" Dragonite, it is a very specific Wrapper and almost a different Pokemon than Twave Dragonite. It has its own set of drawbacks, mainly having to set-up and not being as versatile.



I don't believe it is and I full echo Amaranth on this:

1 - To quote him directly: "i feel like most people do not have enough data to vote accurately. 3 replays is not enough data."
2 - As of January 1st, 2025, Wrap still hasn't produced enough results to justify being put to a vote. There's a real risk that players might vote to take action just because they dislike facing Wrap. Just look at GoFs post, he openly admits it. How many players might do the same without saying it?
3 - Since you're taking DPP as an example, 76.5% of players supported a Machamp ban. That seems like a strong majority, but if you read through the Suspect thread, you clearly see that it is a polarizing issue, over a low-usage mon with counterplay, where most of its critics claimed it "takes the game out of players hands". Sound familiar? I don't want to see the same situation unfold in RBY.
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Peasounay said enough.
 
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I'm new to RBY and I'm trying my best to learn the meta. I understand that there are nuances around the tier that I have yet to grasp. I have been grinding ladder and this is the 3rd time I've run into this team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-2304189312?p2
I got to about 1400 using my tea . I'm struggling to understand why such archetypes are allowed. From my perspective as a new player there is already a fair amount of variance in rby with crits para freeze misses ect... It's demoralizing enough having games where you get body slam crit into Para full Para or a turn 1 freeze. I have come to accept these things.
Is spamming confusion and bind moves not a complete gamble? This is not only extremely unpleasant to go up against but it also seems up to luck. Going up against such things makes me want to put the tier down and never look back. Help me understand why this is acceptable and if it isn't can we do something about it?
Minimize is banned in other tiers how is this much different. Is this not just injecting more RNG into the game unnecessarily? If not trapping moves can we at least get rid of confusion moves? It's a literal coin flip in RBY. technically your oponent is slightly favored due to the miss glitch. How is this competitive? I want to understand please excuse my inexperience.
 
Wrap is dumb as balls
Kinda disingenuous to say it contributes anything to the tier other than fishing, while options to punish slow teams or w.e. exist
It's hard to bring up consistent results bc who gets up in the morning thinking hell yeah, I'll load up wrap in every tour game...I load it once and I feel like I wanna use smth else not bc it's bad but bc it's boring
There's been more exploration with weepinbell/dragonair teams and they're really just rolling a loaded dice

tldr yeah it's hard to prove it's broken or uncompetitive bc who wants to consistently use this lol. If it was up to me I'd ban wrap and rby would need no further bans ever most likely, but looking at this thread that's likely not gonna happen which is lame.
 
Vileman said:
Wrap is dumb as balls
Kinda disingenuous to say it contributes anything to the tier other than fishing, while options to punish slow teams or w.e. exist
It's hard to bring up consistent results bc who gets up in the morning thinking hell yeah, I'll load up wrap in every tour game...I load it once and I feel like I wanna use smth else not bc it's bad but bc it's boring
There's been more exploration with weepinbell/dragonair teams and they're really just rolling a loaded dice

tldr yeah it's hard to prove it's broken or uncompetitive bc who wants to consistently use this lol. If it was up to me I'd ban wrap and rby would need no further bans ever most likely, but looking at this thread that's likely not gonna happen which is lame.
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I just had this game. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-2304464834
I don't know if I can keep doing this. I'm not having fun anymore.
 
Eeveeto said:
The more you play RBY, the more you will realize that Wrap is completely fine and just one of many strategies of this game and one that can be easily played around.
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You are torturing your new players. Wrap is overbearing and obnoxious with Para and confusion support. Did you watch the replays? Tell me how do you counter this?
 
L3TM3DI3 said:
I just had this game. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-2304464834
I don't know if I can keep doing this. I'm not having fun anymore.
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Sub doesnt protect against direct status like twave, so running it on 3 mons isnt helping here. You forfeit an attacking move on starmie, so you only have surf, which is always going to be hard into wrap gimmicks like dragonite and vic (also meant you had few options vs slowbro). Also, arcanine isnt helping with any set here.
You couldve gone egg when gengar 1st showed to block sleep, instead of just giving chansey for free.
After the egg died, you should go straight tauros or starmie vs the gengar there.
What was the lax set? If it was eq, why didnt you use it vs gengar or mag? If it was boom or HB, why not click vs slowbro?
You had that arcanine that you never bothered to use. In the end game you can use it and starmie to burn fire spin pp, or you could click body slam to fish for paras (before starmie and ros die).
Look, that felt like an incredibly annoying team to play against. But wrap was hardly the issue. There's always gonna be ladder trolls running flash+confuseray+paraspam, and sometime you get unlucky and lose (s/o Doydos). But you still made a lot of errors this game, and there's things to work on.

Sceptross maybe this thread has run its course?
 
Acetylaldehyde said:
Sub doesnt protect against direct status like twave, so running it on 3 mons isnt helping here. You forfeit an attacking move on starmie, so you only have surf, which is always going to be hard into wrap gimmicks like dragonite and vic (also meant you had few options vs slowbro). Also, arcanine isnt helping with any set here.
You couldve gone egg when gengar 1st showed to block sleep, instead of just giving chansey for free.
After the egg died, you should go straight tauros or starmie vs the gengar there.
What was the lax set? If it was eq, why didnt you use it vs gengar or mag? If it was boom or HB, why not click vs slowbro?
You had that arcanine that you never bothered to use. In the end game you can use it and starmie to burn fire spin pp, or you could click body slam to fish for paras (before starmie and ros die).
Look, that felt like an incredibly annoying team to play against. But wrap was hardly the issue. There's always gonna be ladder trolls running flash+confuseray+paraspam, and sometime you get unlucky and lose (s/o Doydos). But you still made a lot of errors this game, and there's things to work on.

Sceptross maybe this thread has run its course?
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I'm aware of sub not protecting status I just like it on lead starm to scout because people do weird stuff low ladder but your right. I made a lot of miss plays. I need to try not to get frustrated by what seems like excessive rng buy maybe instead treat it like:if they out speed they may just outright kill you. More coverage on starm is probably a good idea. Yeah ryhdon gar or zap would be a lot more useful. Thank you for your input and not just telling me to git gud.
 
L3TM3DI3 said:
I'm new to RBY and I'm trying my best to learn the meta. I understand that there are nuances around the tier that I have yet to grasp. I have been grinding ladder and this is the 3rd time I've run into this team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-2304189312?p2
I got to about 1400 using my tea . I'm struggling to understand why such archetypes are allowed. From my perspective as a new player there is already a fair amount of variance in rby with crits para freeze misses ect... It's demoralizing enough having games where you get body slam crit into Para full Para or a turn 1 freeze. I have come to accept these things.
Is spamming confusion and bind moves not a complete gamble? This is not only extremely unpleasant to go up against but it also seems up to luck. Going up against such things makes me want to put the tier down and never look back. Help me understand why this is acceptable and if it isn't can we do something about it?
Minimize is banned in other tiers how is this much different. Is this not just injecting more RNG into the game unnecessarily? If not trapping moves can we at least get rid of confusion moves? It's a literal coin flip in RBY. technically your oponent is slightly favored due to the miss glitch. How is this competitive? I want to understand please excuse my inexperience.
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Hard disagree with confussion. I fail to see how it's less competitive than paralysis when it dissapears on its own or you can just switch. When you use confuse ray you are trading one move for ~1.75 of your opponents moves. There is in my opinion no coin toss, if you decide to stay after getting confused you should know that on average you will be hitting yourself a bit under two times.
 
can this actually be shut down now it's practically a closed case (pt/wrap remains unchanged) and now it's not even being used to discuss it lol
 
Attwcat said:
Hard disagree with confussion. I fail to see how it's less competitive than paralysis when it dissapears on its own or you can just switch. When you use confuse ray you are trading one move for ~1.75 of your opponents moves. There is in my opinion no coin toss, if you decide to stay after getting confused you should know that on average you will be hitting yourself a bit under two times.
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That's a fair point. I'd agree with you in a vacuum but the odds get much worse when para and confusion are both in play. Most of the time the confusion user will want to use it on a target that has para. Para is an integral mechanic for rby so just no.
I have had games though where I've been completely immobilized by para and confusion in both gen 1 & 2. Ita just kinda cheesy. I don't think there are many good players who are gonna be frothing at the mouth to confuse there oponent. They will for that juicey para though.
I would not consider it a viable play. You never wanna just hope they get confused or para unless your in a really grim position. 9/10 you would rather have something else in the slot. It really just plagues low ladder for people fishing for rng. This is of course just my limited perspective though.
 
Melbelle said:
can this actually be shut down now it's practically a closed case (pt/wrap remains unchanged) and now it's not even being used to discuss it lol
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You can unsub from the thread If it's bothering you. It seems your correct that the council doesn't seem interested in changing anything. I think it's still fine to discuss things. I also seriously doubt I'm the only player that feels this way.
Others can come and look at the discussion and better understand why things are the way that they are. I'm enjoying learning the nuances of these mechanics and others perspectives.
Maybe I should have opened a new thread for this? I still want to talk and learn. It was already being discussed here.
 
L3TM3DI3 have you ever used Wrap yourself? If you're struggling against a certain strategy, a great way of figuring out how to beat it is adopting that strategy yourself. That way, when opponents counter or play around that strategy, you can take note of what they're doing to beat you, then you can incorporate that into regular gameplay when you decide to drop that strategy
 
L3TM3DI3 said:
You can unsub from the thread If it's bothering you. It seems your correct that the council doesn't seem interested in changing anything. I think it's still fine to discuss things. I also seriously doubt I'm the only player that feels this way.
Others can come and look at the discussion and better understand why things are the way that they are. I'm enjoying learning the nuances of these mechanics and others perspectives.
Maybe I should have opened a new thread for this? I still want to talk and learn. It was already being discussed here.
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i agree that pt should be banned actually, its just obvious this thread ran its course and nothing will change
 
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