With that said, they NEED to nerf Dynamax. NEEEEED IT.
Have Perish Song affect it, reduce the power of Max Airstream, maybe give 1.5x HP boost instead of 2x.
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Pokémon Presents - Pokémon Day 2025 - Pokemon ZA Info & Pokemon Champions Announced
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
Have Perish Song affect it, reduce the power of Max Airstream, maybe give 1.5x HP boost instead of 2x.
I was talking about the new starters/starter forms specifically tbh,
Why is there a question mark?
Honestly, the way I see it is that the biggest problem Max Moves have is that they stack boosts.
We don't usually see a lot of complaining about Max Geyser and Max Lightning, even though they are pretty good.
I'd straight up slap Corviknight's G-Max Move effect (Defog) to Max Airstream and find something else to give to Corv.
And replacing the stat boosting-effects of Max Moves are the bare-minimum for them to not be completely broken if we're being realistic.
I'm excited to play this new Legends game but I will say, it's rather frustrating that each new Legends title means the main social medias are filled with people just assuming the classic turn based combat is gone forever. There's no basis for it, and it seems worse now because of Champions making this bizarre confusion louder.
I understand your pain, my friend, so I'll bestow you a great gift. I'm sure it'll be useful.
Use it responsibly.
Alright, I didn't post this right away because I wanted to account for recency bias being a factor in what I'm about to say. I mean, it still could be, it's been less than a week, but I'm feeling confident
Best protagonist designs we've gotten in a game set in the present day. I have to attach that qualifier since Rei & Akari are still the GOATs but these two aren't far behind. They pull off the visual symmetry of Florian & Juliana with more individual flair and distinction, they form an XYZ color trio with Calem & Serena and they just generally look absolutely dripped the fuck out. I get this distinct feeling that the action focus of Legends has changed the protagonist design ethos for the better by making them include elements that look good in motion: Rei's scarf and these two's jackets come to mind
Best protagonist designs we've gotten in a game set in the present day. I have to attach that qualifier since Rei & Akari are still the GOATs but these two aren't far behind. They pull off the visual symmetry of Florian & Juliana with more individual flair and distinction, they form an XYZ color trio with Calem & Serena and they just generally look absolutely dripped the fuck out. I get this distinct feeling that the action focus of Legends has changed the protagonist design ethos for the better by making them include elements that look good in motion: Rei's scarf and these two's jackets come to mind
What about:
Max Knuckle: Breaks Screens before damage
Max Steelspike: Sets Reflect on the user's side
Max Ooze: Removes stat changes on the target before damage
Max Quake: Sets a layer of Spikes on the opponent's side after damage
Max Airstream: Sets Tailwind on the user's side
Frankly Dynamax would need a bigger nerf than what most people give it.
Just compare simply Max moves to Z-moves. On paper, you give up BP of Z-moves in order to have 3 Max moves, item freedom (which can easily make up the difference in power), move freedom, Pokemon freedom, and secondary effects that often overlapped with what status Z-moves did.
That’s just Max moves alone, not to mention the other benefits Dynamax has.
Basically Dynamax needs way more nerfs than just changing Max move effects to be a bit worse.
Just compare simply Max moves to Z-moves. On paper, you give up BP of Z-moves in order to have 3 Max moves, item freedom (which can easily make up the difference in power), move freedom, Pokemon freedom, and secondary effects that often overlapped with what status Z-moves did.
That’s just Max moves alone, not to mention the other benefits Dynamax has.
Basically Dynamax needs way more nerfs than just changing Max move effects to be a bit worse.
Out of curiosity did VGC players actually like Dynamax? As in, was it a mechanic they felt was a net good for the game that opened new frontiers of strategy while making it more fun to play and watch? Or did they just begrudgingly tolerate Dynamax because, while still overtuned, it wasn't fundamentally borked the way it was in Smogon Singles?
If the former, then I wouldn't count on anything above perhaps a few small tweaks whenever it's implemented in Champions. On the other hand if the reception was bad enough they just might not even include it at all, but then again if this is in part meant to be a sandbox for retired regional mechanics they should probably figure something out because otherwise there'll just be several dozen Pokemon designs that'll never be seen again until Pokemon Legends: The Darkest Day comes out in 203X
If the former, then I wouldn't count on anything above perhaps a few small tweaks whenever it's implemented in Champions. On the other hand if the reception was bad enough they just might not even include it at all, but then again if this is in part meant to be a sandbox for retired regional mechanics they should probably figure something out because otherwise there'll just be several dozen Pokemon designs that'll never be seen again until Pokemon Legends: The Darkest Day comes out in 203X
Dynamax was still somewhat divisive in VGC.
While nowhere near the issues it has in singles, it often boiled down to either "Do you have a flying move yes/not" or "do you have steel/ground moves to abuse weakness policy". So in the end, it was mostly always the same pokemon using it, and you'd build the team about enabling them.
The main difference is that in doubles it had more counterplay and led to some pretty creative shenenigans (like prankster Eerie Sound from Thundurus, that was funny).
Unfortunately Dynamax differently from Terastal was really a win-more button, it didn't make bad pokemon better (bar some very limited exceptions, es Togekiss and Metagross), G-max forms were almost always worse than regular (only exceptions I can remind were Coalassal, Lapras and the starters), the amount of viable dynamaxers was pretty small, on top of even making the viewing experience somewhat worse since any attack targetting a Dynamaxed pokemon wouldn't even play its animation and would just play the generic one.
I don't think anyone really wants to see it return tbh.
I have much lower standards.Alright, I didn't post this right away because I wanted to account for recency bias being a factor in what I'm about to say. I mean, it still could be, it's been less than a week, but I'm feeling confident
Best protagonist designs we've gotten in a game set in the present day. I have to attach that qualifier since Rei & Akari are still the GOATs but these two aren't far behind. They pull off the visual symmetry of Florian & Juliana with more individual flair and distinction, they form an XYZ color trio with Calem & Serena and they just generally look absolutely dripped the fuck out. I get this distinct feeling that the action focus of Legends has changed the protagonist design ethos for the better by making them include elements that look good in motion: Rei's scarf and these two's jackets come to mind
They are not literal children.
10/10, best protags since Wes.
I was keen on waiting a week before feeling I was ready to say what I felt about the Presents info that I really felt most invested in, which is basically just Champions and Z-A. All I am saying is that I am looking forward to the potential Champions could have but I'm not holding my breath. For Z-A, the year long drought kind of led to me feeling lukewarm to what was shown but I am expecting my opinion to change as more gets presented but honestly I'm probably going to end up getting it anyway unless I happen to recover from my Monster Hunter burnout by the time it releases since I don't really have anything else aside from a small game backlog. Helps I'm a sucker for Mega Evolution at heart since Gen 6 had a lot of influence on me but that's another subject. Anyways, cheers.
Oh, don't worry, I got plans for them.
I do like the idea of Max Brick Break tho.
For sure. Dynamax as a whole is very poorly designed. A single Max Move is already more impactful than a Z-Move just because of the secondary effects, even with the BP trade-off.
Ironically, what bothers me the most about Dynamax is how little they help defensive mons like Toxapex, so it's even harder to counterplay it reactively. (Awful example as no one actually wants Pex to get any help, but you get the idea lol)
Like I said in an earlier post, giving Max Moves non-stackable effects really is the bare minimum.
So I would agree if Dusk Lycanroc didn't exist. At that point they could just fit Battle Bond Greninja by mixing in Battle Bond Froakie among spawns/separate form to breed from (if not just making it an ability for Froakie) like Own Tempo Rockruff. There's no reason besides arbitration or wanting to ditch the Ash Greninja form as the goal (rather than collateral) for Battle Bond still being locked to the Gen 7 demo as its only source.
So the ones that mostly make this bizarre are Wyrdeer for me, because the basic handwave (not a retcon, that's a different writing practice) is that all these Pokemon/forms had evolution methods, you simply never played as a trainer that ran into the necessary means (Never finding a Peat Block for an Ursaring, or picking up a Black Augurite for a Scyther). The Doylist explanation is the items and mons not being thought of, but the Wattsonian one is "they did, YOU just never got them until now." Also to nitpick, Bloodmoon Ursaluna isn't even a retcon on the "species existing at all" part because it's an explicit part of its lore that it's so long lived as to have originated from Hisui (not modern Sinnoh) and simply survived that long in Kitakami after ending up their by drifting across the sea.
On the Greninja point, I actually agree that making it a Mega with Battle Bond as an ability is the simplest explanation, since it was already a legally-distinct Mega Evolution mechanic and we do have precedent for Megas without a Stone because of Rayquaza, and "Megas that aren't Megas" with Primal Groudon and Kyogre (and to a lesser extent Ultra Necrozma, since the form is triggered by the fusion holding the Crystal but not specifically using a Z-Move). It could also solve futureproofing concerns by simply letting any Greninja assume the form and gain BB on transforming, as opposed to needing a specific Battle Bond Greninja to have access (despite my above mention that fitting the ability in should be trivial and ALSO has precedent)
It was fun for a time, but the charm wore off pretty quickly for me. It seemed like almost every team ran a Weakness Policy (usually TTar, also Rhyperior, Braviary, Togekiss…). While it was nice to see stuff like Durant and Lapras be good, it was not a well thought out mechanic, I don’t miss it and Tera is far superior.
Interestingly, Wolfe Glick named it the best of the (then 3) Pokemon battle gimmicks.
No I'm sorry this is still dumb because it was definitely unknown to the entire Sinnoh dex as well lol
Same with any other retcon of different evos to old Pokemon. You can't tell me this is a universe with scientists that can make a fucking Link Cable between Universes (Canonically) but don't know about a Fucking Bear.
At least with most regional forms we can say "They didn't talk about Galarian Yamask because that doesn't live in Unova", but when it's literally the same region but like 150 years ago (remember, Hisui takes place around a time period based around 1850-1910, while from developer timelines Sinnoh takes place in the 2000s because it was based somewhat on modern culture - that is way too short of a time for scientists to just forget about this entire species, let alone before the concept of conservation considering the first Japanese conservation forest existed in 1897 IRL) it's just dumb.
For a lot of these Hisuian Pokemon to not exist in modern day Sinnoh, you'd have to justify it by saying that even through things like conservation efforts somehow in like < 150 years the environments shifted enough to make them all go extinct. This obviously doesn't make sense because there is nothing that makes Hisuian Pokemon less viable as a species ecologically than
I'm sorry.Half of them are just the same Pokemon in the same environments that exist in modern Sinnoh except they're literally buffed design wise and in ways that would make them even tougher long-term. Why does adding a steel shell to Goodra-Hisui make it so unviable that Goodra is extinct in modern day Sinnoh? And if it didn't go extinct, where the fuck did it go? It's literally Japan. Did they ship every single Hisuian Goodra species member out of the region to some place we don't even know???
Where's the fossils??? We can revive Pokemon from BONES and you're telling me not even a single Hisuian Growlithe exists in modern Sinnoh? Shit, they'd probably breed that species into being the dominant dog Pokemon frankly, why is that shit not around? We have a British Professor and you're telling me that dog isn't even in Galar, but it's not in modern Sinnoh it's just following one random woman of Hisuian heritage. In broad daylight.
Which by the way, makes no fucking sense, since Hisuian Pokemon are just Sinnoh Pokemon. Like 90% of the dex is the same between the two games. What happened to Hisuian Growlithe that only a descendant could have one right now? and how does that even work? Are Hisuian people so disconnected from modern Sinnoh that the scientists don't know there's a fucking dog?
How is Hisuian Braviary not everywhere? It's just the hawk from Unova but with more superpowers how is that shit not dominating the ecosystem? If a furred Flying Eagle with Psychic Powers that can Fly Humans Easily can't make it in this environment, how the fuck did Staraptor manage? Did the humans hunt all the Braviary but just none of the Staraptors that are going to be easier to hunt because they don't have Psychic Powers?
The litmus test for a retcon isn't "how do we (the audience) make shit up to justify it backwards" it's "does this make sense when you view it chronologically", if the actual writers made an effort to justify it, and no, Hisuian Pokemon do not make sense chronologically. The moment you have to just dismiss baseline logic to say it's not a retcon is when it's still actually a retcon, or so close that it's splitting hairs to have it be a retcon.
The only real counter-arguments here are to just say that despite clearly being based on very real time periods in a series that's always tried to have year dates kinda similar to IRL, that this isn't applicable because it's a fictional universe and that somehow all of this is just handwaved. And yes, I know I am thinking way more than I'm supposed to-
but that's literally my point in the first place, there are far less questions you would have to ask for Mega Greninja to be Ash Greninja than to answer like 10 questions for why Hisui is like this in an interesting fashion
(btw I'm not angry at you pika LOL this is more me ranting just in general on the topic, I'm really not a big fan of Hisui as a lore nerd)
I don't care about what's a retcon or not, I want Mega Greninja to be a new design because wholesale recycling the form from the decade-old tv show would be boring and lame. I'd be fine with it taking inspiration from Ash-Greninja or even re-using an element or two like the big water shuriken but doing a literal copy-paste for the most popular of the trio while Chesnaught and Delphox get all-new designs would stick out like a sore thumb
frankly I think greninja getting two cool pretty much mega forms would stick out a lot worse, similar to how I think Charizard is cringe ASF
Eh, ash greninja has been erased from so much stuff, the mega would feel less like greninja x and y and more like a redesign/replacement. I also dont think ash greninja ever got much fanfare or care, especially when it got beat the fuck up in the anime and never showed up again after, both in the anime, games or outside material. if anything id compare it to spiky ear pichu
mega charizard z soon btw
And all they needed to do was put them up in BDSP in an update in the Grand Underground.No I'm sorry this is still dumb because it was definitely unknown to the entire Sinnoh dex as well lol
Same with any other retcon of different evos to old Pokemon. You can't tell me this is a universe with scientists that can make a fucking Link Cable between Universes (Canonically) but don't know about a Fucking Bear.
At least with most regional forms we can say "They didn't talk about Galarian Yamask because that doesn't live in Unova", but when it's literally the same region but like 150 years ago (remember, Hisui takes place around a time period based around 1850-1910, while from developer timelines Sinnoh takes place in the 2000s because it was based somewhat on modern culture - that is way too short of a time for scientists to just forget about this entire species, let alone before the concept of conservation considering the first Japanese conservation forest existed in 1897 IRL) it's just dumb.
For a lot of these Hisuian Pokemon to not exist in modern day Sinnoh, you'd have to justify it by saying that even through things like conservation efforts somehow in like < 150 years the environments shifted enough to make them all go extinct. This obviously doesn't make sense because there is nothing that makes Hisuian Pokemon less viable as a species ecologically than
Half of them are just the same Pokemon in the same environments that exist in modern Sinnoh except they're literally buffed design wise and in ways that would make them even tougher long-term. Why does adding a steel shell to Goodra-Hisui make it so unviable that Goodra is extinct in modern day Sinnoh? And if it didn't go extinct, where the fuck did it go? It's literally Japan. Did they ship every single Hisuian Goodra species member out of the region to some place we don't even know???
Where's the fossils??? We can revive Pokemon from BONES and you're telling me not even a single Hisuian Growlithe exists in modern Sinnoh? Shit, they'd probably breed that species into being the dominant dog Pokemon frankly, why is that shit not around? We have a British Professor and you're telling me that dog isn't even in Galar, but it's not in modern Sinnoh it's just following one random woman of Hisuian heritage. In broad daylight.
Which by the way, makes no fucking sense, since Hisuian Pokemon are just Sinnoh Pokemon. Like 90% of the dex is the same between the two games. What happened to Hisuian Growlithe that only a descendant could have one right now? and how does that even work? Are Hisuian people so disconnected from modern Sinnoh that the scientists don't know there's a fucking dog?
How is Hisuian Braviary not everywhere? It's just the hawk from Unova but with more superpowers how is that shit not dominating the ecosystem? If a furred Flying Eagle with Psychic Powers that can Fly Humans Easily can't make it in this environment, how the fuck did Staraptor manage? Did the humans hunt all the Braviary but just none of the Staraptors that are going to be easier to hunt because they don't have Psychic Powers?
The litmus test for a retcon isn't "how do we (the audience) make shit up to justify it backwards" it's "does this make sense when you view it chronologically", if the actual writers made an effort to justify it, and no, Hisuian Pokemon do not make sense chronologically. The moment you have to just dismiss baseline logic to say it's not a retcon is when it's still actually a retcon, or so close that it's splitting hairs to have it be a retcon.
The only real counter-arguments here are to just say that despite clearly being based on very real time periods in a series that's always tried to have year dates kinda similar to IRL, that this isn't applicable because it's a fictional universe and that somehow all of this is just handwaved. And yes, I know I am thinking way more than I'm supposed to-
but that's literally my point in the first place, there are far less questions you would have to ask for Mega Greninja to be Ash Greninja than to answer like 10 questions for why Hisui is like this in an interesting fashion
(btw I'm not angry at you pika LOL this is more me ranting just in general on the topic, I'm really not a big fan of Hisui as a lore nerd)
Sinnoh got done dirty, it is what it is.
Ash Greninja featured more prominently in Pokemon media than probably like 15 Megas combined. Like what. The anime? Major character. The games? One of the big reasons to play the demo, also broken ass Pokemon.
Media:
It's in Pokemon Picross.
(Separately from Greninja, mind you.)
Was in Pokemon Tretta, that JP only arcade stuff.
It actually has 3 variants:
It got an entire 3DS theme.
They upload clips from the episodes even like almost a decade after, and they get millions and millions and millions of views.
This guy's scenes has AMVs by random fans with 10 million views.
Not only is Ash Greninja significantly more important than almost every Mega, it's *one of the reasons Greninja is one of the most popular Pokemon of all-time*, it's not the inverse around. Acting like Ash Greninja isn't extremely important to Greninja itself being super popular is imo ahistorical of the fanbase.
Ash Greninja is significant to the Pokemon's popularity and what it is in the hearts of a lot of Little Timmies, and Grown Timmies nowadays. You could get rid of like at least 20 Megas combined and they'd have less impact on the franchise than this one design that appeared in one Generation of Pokemon.
Attachments
mega charizard z and mega charizard a
ash greninja comes back and is renamed mega greninja a and gets a new mega greninja z
That sort of thing happens all the time in our world including animals from Hokkaido. Just because conservation existed doesn't mean they were good at it, or even that it was as widespread as it is now. It can be something as simple as introduction of other species that outcompete the locals, a change in environment that removes something necessary, or just plain old overhunting/fishing. And even then, a lot of it could be not being around in Sinnoh but being around in other places such as Basculin/Basculegion in Kitakami and the Hisuian Growlith Perrin has.No I'm sorry this is still dumb because it was definitely unknown to the entire Sinnoh dex as well lol
Same with any other retcon of different evos to old Pokemon. You can't tell me this is a universe with scientists that can make a fucking Link Cable between Universes (Canonically) but don't know about a Fucking Bear.
At least with most regional forms we can say "They didn't talk about Galarian Yamask because that doesn't live in Unova", but when it's literally the same region but like 150 years ago (remember, Hisui takes place around a time period based around 1850-1910, while from developer timelines Sinnoh takes place in the 2000s because it was based somewhat on modern culture - that is way too short of a time for scientists to just forget about this entire species, let alone before the concept of conservation considering the first Japanese conservation forest existed in 1897 IRL) it's just dumb.
For a lot of these Hisuian Pokemon to not exist in modern day Sinnoh, you'd have to justify it by saying that even through things like conservation efforts somehow in like < 150 years the environments shifted enough to make them all go extinct. This obviously doesn't make sense because there is nothing that makes Hisuian Pokemon less viable as a species ecologically than