I think I would still rather use booster because of the aforementioned extra moveslot and the fact that you can just switch in Iron Moth whenever you need (unless you get roared or whirlwinded and as far as I can tell the most viable user of that is Moltres). Still though I appreciate how you did show that there are advantages to using meteor beam. In theory you can get both boosts in electric terrain but electric terrain sucks this gen for obvious reasons and you lose the boost after electric terrain ends anyway
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Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #1101))
- Thread starter Shaymin Sky
- Start date
Hi all, thanks for your patience! We're here in the nick of time with a VR shift in light of SPL heading into playoffs. We have some pretty awesome changes, so let's get into them:
Newly Added
UR to D
UR to D
UR to D
UR to D
UR to D
UR to D
Rises
A+ to S-
A+ to S-
A to A+
A- to A+
A- to A
-
B+ to A-
B+ to A-
B to B+
B to B+
B- to B
B- to B
-
C+ to B-
C+ to B-
C+ to B-
C to C+
-
D to C
Drops
S to S-
S- to A+
-
A+ to A
A- to B+
A- to B+
-
B+ to B
B+ to B
B+ to B
B+ to B
B to B-
-
D to UR
D to UR
D to UR
Major Changes
A- to A+
(+2 Subrankings)
Anybody who's been on ladder or playing/watching SPL should not be surprised by this, as Pecharunt has been making waves in the tier as of late due to its incredible defensive spread and ability to blanket check a lot of dangerous Pokemon at once like Ogerpon-Wellspring and Dragonite. It has weirdly good set variety, across Nasty Plot, Foul Play, Parting Shot, Destiny Bond, and Tera Blast to diversify how it takes advantage of its great defensive profile across a bunch of different archetypes. Pecharunt has become a staple of the tier recently and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon.
A+ to S-
(+1 Subrankings)
Ting-Lu has become the tier's premier defensive backbone, armed with a completely unprecedented defensive profile that lets it stomach all kinds of hits. This quality alongside the consistent chipping power of Ruination makes it arguably the best Spikes setter in the tier, and alongside access to phazing in Whirlwind, also makes it a near guaranteed failsafe into any setup Pokemon that lacks Taunt. These fundamentals are a given, but it also comes packaged with set variety that makes it useful on many archetypes. RestTalk has seen usage on bulkier teams, while more aggressive sets featuring Red Card and Taunt have also come into the picture to take advantage of its ability to force trades and vomit hazards with its sheer resilience. This Pokemon very nearly broke into S, but fell short by a single vote.
S to S-
(-1 Subrankings)
This may come as a shock to anybody who has been a long-time follower of the tier, however unfortunately the metagame has been more noticeably hostile to Kingambit's sweeping potential in recent times. Much of this can be attributed to many teams being naturally equipped into its Sucker Punch gameplan, which leaves it often finding slots on teams for its defensive qualities and access to strong priority as a tool into offense more than for its sweeping power. Granted, these are still phenomenal qualities, and Kingambit can still ravage teams that have been run down on top of its incredible Tera type variety, but these sweeps are not as common place as they typically used to be.
Feel free to send any questions you have regarding these shifts, and I (or other members of the VR council) will be happy to provide insight! Until next time!
Newly Added
UR to D UR to D UR to D UR to D UR to D UR to DRises
A+ to S- A+ to S- A to A+ A- to A+ A- to A-
B+ to A- B+ to A- B to B+ B to B+ B- to B B- to B-
C+ to B- C+ to B- C+ to B- C to C+-
D to CDrops
S to S- S- to A+-
A+ to A A- to B+ A- to B+-
B+ to B B+ to B B+ to B B+ to B B to B--
D to UR D to UR D to URMajor Changes
A- to A+(+2 Subrankings)
Anybody who's been on ladder or playing/watching SPL should not be surprised by this, as Pecharunt has been making waves in the tier as of late due to its incredible defensive spread and ability to blanket check a lot of dangerous Pokemon at once like Ogerpon-Wellspring and Dragonite. It has weirdly good set variety, across Nasty Plot, Foul Play, Parting Shot, Destiny Bond, and Tera Blast to diversify how it takes advantage of its great defensive profile across a bunch of different archetypes. Pecharunt has become a staple of the tier recently and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon.
A+ to S-(+1 Subrankings)
Ting-Lu has become the tier's premier defensive backbone, armed with a completely unprecedented defensive profile that lets it stomach all kinds of hits. This quality alongside the consistent chipping power of Ruination makes it arguably the best Spikes setter in the tier, and alongside access to phazing in Whirlwind, also makes it a near guaranteed failsafe into any setup Pokemon that lacks Taunt. These fundamentals are a given, but it also comes packaged with set variety that makes it useful on many archetypes. RestTalk has seen usage on bulkier teams, while more aggressive sets featuring Red Card and Taunt have also come into the picture to take advantage of its ability to force trades and vomit hazards with its sheer resilience. This Pokemon very nearly broke into S, but fell short by a single vote.
S to S-(-1 Subrankings)
This may come as a shock to anybody who has been a long-time follower of the tier, however unfortunately the metagame has been more noticeably hostile to Kingambit's sweeping potential in recent times. Much of this can be attributed to many teams being naturally equipped into its Sucker Punch gameplan, which leaves it often finding slots on teams for its defensive qualities and access to strong priority as a tool into offense more than for its sweeping power. Granted, these are still phenomenal qualities, and Kingambit can still ravage teams that have been run down on top of its incredible Tera type variety, but these sweeps are not as common place as they typically used to be.
Feel free to send any questions you have regarding these shifts, and I (or other members of the VR council) will be happy to provide insight! Until next time!
Iron Moth
General concensus between everyone seemed B+/A- so curious how it still kept a high standing spot, I imagine some people would have needed to vote A+ and I especially wanna hear their thoughts. Very inconsistent Pokemon with Fiery Dance stuff, and very poor into the Dragonite Ting-Lu meta. Can't imagine it belonging with Gholdengo, Pecharunt, Roaring Moon, etc whatever they voted alongside it.
Even the As like Slowking-G, Zapdos, Moltres, seem a league better than worse matchap moth and its inconsistensy.
General concensus between everyone seemed B+/A- so curious how it still kept a high standing spot, I imagine some people would have needed to vote A+ and I especially wanna hear their thoughts. Very inconsistent Pokemon with Fiery Dance stuff, and very poor into the Dragonite Ting-Lu meta. Can't imagine it belonging with Gholdengo, Pecharunt, Roaring Moon, etc whatever they voted alongside it.
Even the As like Slowking-G, Zapdos, Moltres, seem a league better than worse matchap moth and its inconsistensy.
It has seen a bit of SPL use and high ladder use, making use of HDB and Choice Band sets. Sacred Fire is a broken click and Tera Normal Extreme Speed is always a really powerful tool.
Not sure why dropped and rose, especially since I haven't seen much discussion on them in this thread.
dropped and rose, especially since I haven't seen much discussion on them in this thread.
So the thing is that it was actually between A and A-, but there was one A+ vote.Iron Moth
General concensus between everyone seemed B+/A- so curious how it still kept a high standing spot, I imagine some people would have needed to vote A+ and I especially wanna hear their thoughts. Very inconsistent Pokemon with Fiery Dance stuff, and very poor into the Dragonite Ting-Lu meta. Can't imagine it belonging with Gholdengo, Pecharunt, Roaring Moon, etc whatever they voted alongside it.
Even the As like Slowking-G, Zapdos, Moltres, seem a league better than worse matchap moth and its inconsistensy.
My personal thought process behind not dropping further is that while it does have some matchups it's really bad in, its strong coverage options and a really powerful Tera Blast give it a dual pronged and relatively consistent offensive presence with both SpA booster and Speed booster, and it has the ability to cleave open poorer matchups if it is positioned well and gets good rolls. But obviously yeah it's on a downtrend and its drop does reflect this at its core, it's just not really as big of a bump downward as some people claim imo.
Why didn't Torkoal drop alongside Ninetales?
My understanding around Iron Crown's drop is that the increase in Ting-Lu and Gliscor use is extremely hostile toward its more offensive sets, and its defensive niche is filled more consistently by Pokemon like Tinkaton and Iron Treads. Someone who actually voted it to drop is probably a bit more qualified to answer this though.Not sure why
Tornadus-T has seen some decent success lately with Knock Off sets to make progress, and its defensive profile is just fundamentally really good and pairs phenomenally with AV + Regenerator to shore up pressure on airborne allies.
They both are seen to be about the same in terms of Sun setting quality, and the drop is mainly intended to reflect this. Torkoal has Stealth Rock, more consistent bulk, and emergency Rapid Spin which is some decent compression, while Ninetales trades these for more Speed and access to Encore/Healing Wish for tempo.
It was one vote away from dropping. There were a lot of these this slate, believe it or not. Dragonite is another example of a significant Pokemon that just barely didn't get a change (it would've risen to S-).
Why hasn’t walking wake dropped to B if Ninetales has also dropped to B? It seems odd that it’s higher ranked than both sun setters in the tier.
Tysm for response. I personally think;
Iron Moth just ends up feeling like an easy checkbox when covering for other threats when building, and the teams weaker into it often end up trading. I think the only times Ive swept with Iron Moth when using HO/Offense are vs the UR Bee Webs and good Fiery Dance hax + Tera reads. Iron Moth seems to require more effort and match up fishes to get A-rank value imo. There are Pokemon that have hax influence them, like Pecharunt and the birds, but even without getting a MChain toxic or a Flame Body burn, Pecharunt and Moltres still perform at a high level with their defensive utility and ability to pivot, they treat the hax as a bonus instead of Moth which really wants them to be a proper threat to majority of teams.
Walking Wake is good with both sun setters, while they compete with each other. It's also a viable Knock Off pivot on non-sun teams.
it's enough to make a grown man cry.
Could we see the slate or something?
Or at least a vote count not even with the council member's names.
Anyways I am so happy Tea beat the psyspam allegations.
But anyways my question is why did Glimm drop. I feel like red card and meteor beam sets are rly good still and we have seen it in spl. I get the usage dropped but other than Ting did I missimg something?
Or at least a vote count not even with the council member's names.
Anyways I am so happy Tea beat the psyspam allegations.
But anyways my question is why did Glimm drop. I feel like red card and meteor beam sets are rly good still and we have seen it in spl. I get the usage dropped but other than Ting did I missimg something?
Tbf said SPL usage is barely above the OU cut-off. Ting-Lu definitely makes the offensive stuff shakier, and Tspikes are at an all-time low.
Walking Wake can be a viable offensive pivot with Scald and Knock Off outside of Sun and has seen some fringe success because of this.
Gholdengo has been on a downtrend in general because its stats just... aren't really what you'd want them to be from something like Gholdengo, and it's been facing a lot more competition. If you want a Specially oriented wallbreaker, Darkrai and Raging Bolt are both generally better and more consistent into offense, and there are Pokemon like Iron Valiant and Kyurem which are a bit more versatile in this regard as well. Its primary niche comes from leaning into its bulk, Good as Gold, and typing, which can let it be a solid win condition into bulkier structures or a decent disruptive force throughout the game with Choice Scarf or Thunder Wave. The whole package is worth A+ but it's not really the metagame breaking force some people have called it by any means, as it falling short of being the best of any one role has been more noticeable with its competition growing steeper.Whydidn't drop while
Meowscarada has had some increased use lately, especially with Choiced sets which are extremely difficult to switch into.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qOVyeS768pxSazKGsXwjPM7De5RIpjNdfiPWVX7IVRI/edit?usp=sharing
Knock yourself out.
These sets are definitely solid but unfortunately fairly structure reliant as Glimmora's defensive profile and Speed tier are very hit-or-miss. It can be situationally very great though.
Why is this ranked when there is no spore? (Not trying to be rude I am genuinely asking.)
I remember in the month before it rose to ou how all those people were saying this mon was overrated. Jokes on them lol
YES, FINALLY JUSTICE IS SERVED! This pokemon is not S- rank material in my opinion. Too slow, not that great of a spin blocker and it is beaten very consistently by the number 1 pokemon in the tier, Great Tusk (tera permitting and most of the time you shouldn't tera Ghold).
BOOOOOOOOOO
This is literally the only downside to Pecharunt's meteoric rise. RIP Monkey
Ok but how did this not rise? I know a lot of people consider Roaring Moon better right now (me not being included) but Dragonite was already A+ and it is considered even better now than when it was first ranked there. How is this possible?
Edit: Also how is Zama still S tier? All of the pokemon in S- are better than it in my opinion. This seems wrong.
Expanding on what Ausma said, Walking Wake is good on non-sun teams, being used 16 times in SPL while sun as a whole was only used 9 times. It functions similarly to Keldeo but notably has Knock Off which makes it a more self sufficient offensive threat and its Draco Meteor slams mons like Dragonite, Dragapult, and Ogerpon-W that Keldeo struggles to beat.
Agree with/am indifferent to all of the shifts except this.
still does what it always has, being a good kyu check and rocker role compression mon for balances, and arguably has only gotten better with the rise of. Not only do they form a strong spikes + rocks hstack core, they also complement eachother defensively exceedingly well, with switching into the Fairy, Ice, and Grass attacks that threaten , setting up a Wish, and if anything comes in to force out Rachi, (eg.
,,
,, or one of the numerous darks of the tier), can come in to take the hit and be restored back to full thanks to 's wish passing. I've been using a BO squad with this duo recently to much success in high 1700s ladder, and genuinely they complement each other very well. I honestly would even maybe raise to C, and would understand D for those who have yet to witness its splendor in tandem with , but UR is absurd.
Always glad to see some Loom appreciation but I’m curious what exactly caused it to get ranked?
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-816162
In all seriousness, it can be decent at forcing trades/revenge killing.
Rilla has a lot more problems than just Pecha, though that is a huge thorn in its side. It also hates the flock of birds in Corvi, Zap, and Moltres which prevent it from breaking and punish it for clicking its contact moves. Additionally, many of the high speed threats resist its priority (Moth, Moon, Dragonite, Kyurem, Zama might as well be a resist), which makes its Grassy Glide much less valuable. Turns out, a metagame full of Dragon and Flying types (and a very bulky Poison) is awful for a pure Grass attacker.