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Unpopular opinions

girazard said:
Flareon, Espeon and Umbreon getting Zap Cannon in gen2 was rad as hell. Let them have coverage but make them niche as - Zap Cannon, Mystical Fire, Foul Play, Bullet Seed, Psychic Fangs...cool shit.
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Wait, Flareon got it in Gen II? Wtf, how have I only just learned this.

...probably because I've never actually used Flareon in GSC, actually. But that's a really cool addition.

Am definitely in "let them have more" camp though. Jolteon has always kind of sucked as an attacker because its movepool is so barren: it's always had Pin Missile and Double Kick, but even if its Attack wasn't so poor they'd still be awful. Pretty much its only other options are Signal Beam and Shadow Ball which are better than nothing but it's very much a one-trick pony/dog/thing.

pika pal said:
Maybe Espeon can have Detect since multiple dex entries mention its Psychic Powers and sensitive Fur/Tail allow it to anticipate opponents moves/movements, and Detect is a Protect clone based on evading an attack rather than perfect blocking it.
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Apologies if I'm telling you something you know already, but Detect has been an egg move for Eevee since gen V (though it would, admittedly, be nice if Espeon learned it naturally). I feel like Wish is a move Eevee should learn by itself too (perhaps at an absurdly high level as a twisted reward for keeping it unevolved so long, it's a far better prize than Trump Card) but maybe I'm letting my irritation at how long breeding Wish Eevee takes in most games override my judgement.
 
QuentinQuonce said:
Apologies if I'm telling you something you know already, but Detect has been an egg move for Eevee since gen V (though it would, admittedly, be nice if Espeon learned it naturally). I feel like Wish is a move Eevee should learn by itself too (perhaps at an absurdly high level as a twisted reward for keeping it unevolved so long, it's a far better prize than Trump Card) but maybe I'm letting my irritation at how long breeding Wish Eevee takes in most games override my judgement.
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Admittedly I didn't check the closest since I was just looking for quick ideas that didn't appear in their level up movepool to go over the overall point (and also why my Sylveon examples were flavor focused since even Mystical Fire was a TM, albeit a fitting one). Detect does feel odd as an Egg Move vs an Espeon Level-up Move so I half-count it, but that was an oversight on my part.
 
The Eeveelutions having bad coverage feels like a relic from an era when movesets had a lot more care put into them and weren’t homogenized to hell and back. It’s just incompatible with the current way movesets are put together. If GF isn’t willing to go back and revise movesets, then I don’t think there’s a compelling reason to block them off from coverage when very few other ‘mons have such an arbitrary restriction.
 
Worldie said:
Have you guys ever considered the fact that maybe GameFreaks doesn't care that Eevolutions are not competitively viable since their only job is being cute and sell plushies?
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Getting a Chikorita-tier rep doesn't exactly help with those.

The reason is close, but more obvious than you think. There's over a thousand mons, many of which, like Pidgeot, are in an utterly unsalvageable state. So, especially considering the deadlines, they're just letting stuff slide because it's too much work to go over each mon individually.
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
The reason is close, but more obvious than you think. There's over a thousand mons, many of which, like Pidgeot, are in an utterly unsalvageable state. So, especially considering the deadlines, they're just letting stuff slide because it's too much work to go over each mon individually.
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That is part of the issue, but honestly I am pretty serious when I say that I hardly doubt they care that their mascot's evolution (not even the mascot itself, the evolutions!) aren't viable.

There is a reason Eevee and Pikachu got both G-max forms and dedicated Z-moves and their evolutions did not. If they remotely had any interest in making the evolutions viable, those would have given at least something to them, but they didn't. They couldn have transferred the Let's Go moves to the mainline, but they didn't (and as we saw with the Genies moves, if they have any interest in it, they will implement spinoff unique moves in the main games).

Eevolutions being PvP viable isn't in their list of important stuff. Maybe it isn't in their list of even "relevant" stuff. Accept it, the viability of eevolutions will always only be incidental, direct buffs to make them show up in VGC aren't and never will be a factor.
 
Worldie said:
That is part of the issue, but honestly I am pretty serious when I say that I hardly doubt they care that their mascot's evolution (not even the mascot itself, the evolutions!) aren't viable.
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This is a bad take because Eevee itself isn't that popular lol

Both Sylveon and Umbreon are in the Top 10 most popular Pokemon from the 2020 polling, and they still prioritize those in a lot of media.

Also the take on "don't care about viability" is also bad because they give their mascots all kinds of fucking bullshit.

Pikachu gets: Knock Off, Play Rough, Grass Knot, Fake Out, Surf, Iron Tail, Endeavor, Brick Break, Alluring Voice, Body Slam and more + basically every Electric STAB.

Charizard gets: Ancient Power, Body Slam, Brick Break, Crunch, Dragon Claw / Pulse / Tail, Earthquake, Focus Blast, Outrage, Rock Slide, Scorching Sand, Shadow Claw, Thunder Punch, Weather Ball, Breaking Swipe, Bulldoze, Solar Beam + Fire and Flying STAB.

Lucario gets: Body Slam, Crunch, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Earthquake, Extreme Speed, Ice Punch, Poison Jab, Psychic, Rock Slide, Shadow Ball / Claw, Stone Edge, Thunder Punch, Zen Headbutt, Bulldoze, Aerial Ace, shit like Water Pulse, and it has probably the best STAB options you could want. Bullet Punch, Close Combat, Drain Punch, Focus Blast, High Jump Kick, Low Kick, Low Sweep, etc.

I'd go as far as to say Game Freak explicitly designs it so that their mascot Pokemon are competitive nowadays. With the exception of Gen 7, 3/4 Gens since VGC started getting steam have had a Protean starter with insane coverage, good Speed and Attack. More than that, most of them got good support moves or were just good supports in general.

Game Freak also knows that good Pokemon in-game reflects in their popularity generally lol, people like Pokemon that do well, and Eeveelutions used to.
 
i mean eevee is still insanely popular by itself. the thing is that pokemon is so big, that those high categories have insane gaps between each other. its why i think people think pokemon like raichu and flygon are "unpopular" when they both have really good appearances + merch accessibility + are a ton of peoples favorites: theyre only comparing it to the titans of pokemon like pika and zard and not to the overall franchise. its like if i said keroppi was unpopular because it doesnt get as much merch as cinnamonroll does, but keroppi is still really popular and i could buy merch of him easily, while other mascots of sanrio have had barely any appearances
 
my unpopular opinion about pokemon design popularity is that a lot of people focus way too much on the west. you see a lot of takes of people just saying some design is ugly and nobody anywhere likes it just because they personally don't or their region doesn't.

very unpopular in the west apparently: Barbaracle
very popular in Japan tho: also Barbaracle

Japan seems to appreciate the Kaijumons and weirdos a lot more than the west does, where if you just look at what the west like its all just cool and cute.
 
Mega Lucario is a way better design than vanilla Lucario ever has been because it's so over the top it actually looks cool and its legs don't make me uncomfortable as the later did even as a child.

Bakugames said:
i mean eevee is still insanely popular by itself. the thing is that pokemon is so big, that those high categories have insane gaps between each other. its why i think people think pokemon like raichu and flygon are "unpopular" when they both have really good appearances + merch accessibility + are a ton of peoples favorites: theyre only comparing it to the titans of pokemon like pika and zard and not to the overall franchise. its like if i said keroppi was unpopular because it doesnt get as much merch as cinnamonroll does, but keroppi is still really popular and i could buy merch of him easily, while other mascots of sanrio have had barely any appearances
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This. Eevee is literally a Pokemon that was made into a box mascot years later. It's ridiculous to pretend it is not supposed to be one nowadays or that it isn't crazy popular enough for it to happen to begin with. It isn't like they randomly picked any mon as a subtitute for Psyduck in Let's Go or like if it didn't get attention prior to that game.

CynicalGiant said:
my unpopular opinion about pokemon design popularity is that a lot of people focus way too much on the west. you see a lot of takes of people just saying some design is ugly and nobody anywhere likes it just because they personally don't or their region doesn't.

very unpopular in the west apparently: Barbaracle
very popular in Japan tho: also Barbaracle

Japan seems to appreciate the Kaijumons and weirdos a lot more than the west does, where if you just look at what the west like its all just cool and cute.
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It's crazy that in literally the biggest brand in the world you have people arguing "X is no one's favourite, why do they give attention?". Like, no? Stadistically there is someone out there who loves that Pokemon and is their absolute favourite. There is probably some fanboy of that same mon you find absolutely redundant.

Hell, just by playing SV and because of random inside memes all of me, my brother and my ex partner ended up liking fucking Pawmo the most of its line. My little brother literally refused to evolve it.

I'm sorry to tell you this, Bob, but there is someone out there whose favourite Pokemon is Vanilluxe, Trubbish or Klefki and you are not changing their minds.
 
DrrT said:
I'm sorry to tell you this, Bob, but there is someone out there whose favourite Pokemon is Vanilluxe, Trubbish or Klefki and you are not changing their minds.
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I love Trubbish (and Garbodor)
 
DrrT said:
This. Eevee is literally a Pokemon that was made into a box mascot years later. It's ridiculous to pretend it is not supposed to be one nowadays or that it isn't crazy popular enough for it to happen to begin with. It isn't like they randomly picked any mon as a subtitute for Psyduck in Let's Go or like if it didn't get attention prior to that game.
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I deleted what I posted before Baku replied bc I didn't wanna actually talk about this but ig whatever

My point wasn't that Eevee was unpopular but that "mainstream" is an entirely different standard that most Pokemon that people say are popular don't match.

There are only like 5 Pokemon that are mainstream, total. And that number doesn't increase with a Pokemon being put on a box.

If I show someone a silhouette of Pikachu they know it's Pikachu. Probably Charizard too. Show your parents a picture of Greninja, Eevee, Lucario etc. and there is like a 99% chance they do not know it.

I also talked about in the post I deleted that Pokemon have nicher subset categories than people think, Eeveelutions specifically are mostly favored by furries - a lot of people like Eeveelutions but you can bet that the majority of Pokemon 2020 votes for Sylveon were furries, frankly.

This isn't like Pikachu (a comparison I made) because Pikachu isn't even really supposed to be someone's favorite. It's supposed to be a gateway to get you to play.

Eevee and its evolutions have always been significantly more organic. Pikachu got pushed by the anime, Charizard was on the boxart and was the only European Dragon for like two generations, and also was Ash's best Pokemon in the anime.

If people here like it or not, Eevee and its evolutions aren't Pokemon that got to their status (which still isn't at Pikachu level) because Big Pokemon made it that way.

They've tried inorganic mascot campaigns before, by the way. BDSP and PLA, The Year of Sinnoh was not nearly as much advertised in the West, but in JP it was a trojan horse for a push to make Piplup at the level of an Eevee mascot.

They made entire music videos, animations and pushed it a lot that year to try to make it that way but it just didn't work. Eeveelutions have been popular with fans for like decades, and that's why I think it's annoying that people just say "It's a cute Pokemon that Game Freak favored *after two decades*, it's basically normie Pikachu level + boring"
 
Bakugames said:
I don't really use mainstream as a term because I live in a country where the average laymen does not know who charizard is
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Mainstream and popular are both relative terms anyways, and this doesn't really change my original point. If you don't want to engage with a point about mainstream vs popular then it would be more appropriate to just not try to have that conversation, because if we can't agree on basic parts of what the conversation should be then it's useless
 
ant4456 said:
Mainstream and popular are both relative terms anyways, and this doesn't really change my original point. If you don't want to engage with a point about mainstream vs popular then it would be more appropriate to just not try to have that conversation, because if we can't agree on basic parts of what the conversation should be then it's useless
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I do disagree with some of your post but thought my disagreements werent interesting. i replied because I thought that the tidbit of a place not knowing charizard was funny
 
Anyone who sees the new Discord update and says "Heh, u all complain but u will get used to it in a week :sunglasses:" should be imprisoned

This UI barely passes basic visual aesthetic principles let alone being more practical. I know someone with dyslexia and they instantly found it hard to read shit and increasing Zoom makes the UI look even more dogshit somehow
 
The reality isn't that people wanted to "replace Freeze with Frostbite", people just want Freeze gone and would take even a guaranteed 1hko over it.

Tbh, I do understand it, the competitive environment in both singles and VGC has become so fast that a single 10% freeze can instantly win you the game due to how badly modern offensive threats snowballs out of control if given a free turn. I've seen too many VGC matches turned just off sheer RNG this gen :(
 
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