Unpopular opinions

[War Incarnate]

Frostbite fans when they realize that having status conditions that halve the attacking of both stats is a really bad idea (yes, even worse than rng no move)

I think this is precisely why I think frostbite should cut both defenses by 25% instead, because that seems a lot more interesting than "oh hey burn that affects special attackers instead".

That said, Freeze is an insanely cringe status condition and I think it should be removed. We already have sleep (itself a lame and cringe status condition), we don't need that but potentially indefinite.

 

[Bakugames]

ive had many ideas on how to retool freeze and sleep, but my main issue is that they always end up boring :( idk maybe im just stupid lol but they lack some of the fun flavor of the current status

 

[DrPumpkinz]

would take even a guaranteed 1hko over it.

holy shit wait that'd be so fucking funny. you switch into an ice beam and have a 10% chance to just die.

you could rework Sheer Cold into an attack with a 30% ohko chance. maybe give it 90% accuracy and 120 base power.


Non-meme, I think freeze is fine as-is. It can be lame when it just shows up uninvited and abruptly decides a game, but when shit hits the fan and you click an Ice move specifically for the Hail Mary freeze chance knowing it's your only way out of a losing scenario, that's fucking cool.

 

[ant4456]

The reality isn't that people wanted to "replace Freeze with Frostbite", people just want Freeze gone and would take even a guaranteed 1hko over it.

Tbh, I do understand it, the competitive environment in both singles and VGC has become so fast that a single 10% freeze can instantly win you the game due to how badly modern offensive threats snowballs out of control if given a free turn. I've seen too many VGC matches turned just off sheer RNG this gen :(

frostbite is worse in the context of singles especially since it's an effectively permanent "this mon is dogshit"

yeah freeze is RNG based but unless it's RBY the status can sometimes not be that bad of a problem, and sometimes it loses the game

but frostbite also loses the game

if you're tapu lele vs kyurem and you live but they frostbite and now moonblast does like 55% instead of an OHKO, that was usually your check and it's still Gg

 

[Basedwell]

i mean there are ways to get around freeze with fire moves, which is pretty cool. i think the problem is that there is too much powercreep offensively in modern pokemon, but there's not much to say about it.

I deleted what I posted before Baku replied bc I didn't wanna actually talk about this but ig whatever

My point wasn't that Eevee was unpopular but that "mainstream" is an entirely different standard that most Pokemon that people say are popular don't match.

There are only like 5 Pokemon that are mainstream, total. And that number doesn't increase with a Pokemon being put on a box.

If I show someone a silhouette of Pikachu they know it's Pikachu. Probably Charizard too. Show your parents a picture of Greninja, Eevee, Lucario etc. and there is like a 99% chance they do not know it.

I also talked about in the post I deleted that Pokemon have nicher subset categories than people think, Eeveelutions specifically are mostly favored by furries - a lot of people like Eeveelutions but you can bet that the majority of Pokemon 2020 votes for Sylveon were furries, frankly.

This isn't like Pikachu (a comparison I made) because Pikachu isn't even really supposed to be someone's favorite. It's supposed to be a gateway to get you to play.

Eevee and its evolutions have always been significantly more organic. Pikachu got pushed by the anime, Charizard was on the boxart and was the only European Dragon for like two generations, and also was Ash's best Pokemon in the anime.

If people here like it or not, Eevee and its evolutions aren't Pokemon that got to their status (which still isn't at Pikachu level) because Big Pokemon made it that way.

They've tried inorganic mascot campaigns before, by the way. BDSP and PLA, The Year of Sinnoh was not nearly as much advertised in the West, but in JP it was a trojan horse for a push to make Piplup at the level of an Eevee mascot.

They made entire music videos, animations and pushed it a lot that year to try to make it that way but it just didn't work. Eeveelutions have been popular with fans for like decades, and that's why I think it's annoying that people just say "It's a cute Pokemon that Game Freak favored *after two decades*, it's basically normie Pikachu level + boring"

i agree eevee isn't one of the most iconic pokemon to outsiders, but they gave the guy away as a gift Pokemon in most generations. and gave it a special mechanic from day 1. it was always intended to be a heavy hitter.

holy shit wait that'd be so fucking funny. you switch into an ice beam and have a 10% chance to just die.

you could rework Sheer Cold into an attack with a 30% ohko chance. maybe give it 90% accuracy and 120 base power.


Non-meme, I think freeze is fine as-is. It can be lame when it just shows up uninvited and abruptly decides a game, but when shit hits the fan and you click an Ice move specifically for the Hail Mary freeze chance knowing it's your only way out of a losing scenario, that's fucking cool.

Competitive pokemon needs hail marys!! personally I've played online for awhile with ADV where there is regular Ice Beam spam and actually lost a game because of it for the first time last night. where my dusclops got frozen 7 turns in a row where if it could wake up and rest I would have won. and it did tilt tf out of me, but that's the first time its come into play. I like the rng, but inaccurate moves, flinches, and paralysis have screwed me over more, although again I'm fine with that, and a lot of this stuff is a skill issue. If you get hit once by ice beam, it's a 10 percent chance. If you get hit 5 times, it's a 1 - 0.9 ^5 chance

 

[Ironmage]

I don't see Frostbite with an offensive debuff really finding a home within the Ice type, given that Water is right there as a defensive juggernaut that already has a tendency to overshadow Ice even when STAB is in play. A hit to defenses seems more in line with Ice's strengths.

 

[Worldie]

Non-meme, I think freeze is fine as-is. It can be lame when it just shows up uninvited and abruptly decides a game, but when shit hits the fan and you click an Ice move specifically for the Hail Mary freeze chance knowing it's your only way out of a losing scenario, that's fucking cool.

You see, that is mainly why originally the heavy RNG in pokemon wasnt a issue and why they actually keep it

The "I am screwed BUT there is that one small chance i get lucky and win" is both high tension and cool.

....and that was fine until the competitive scene grew, VGC became more than just a niche small event, and money/tournament titles were involved. Because deciding a world championship and several thousand dollars over a 10% chance to get lucky wouldnt make anyone feel good, would only make both parties feel bad.
(Hasnt specifically happened yet, but there have been matches, even semifinals, decided on a singular crit or status roll, including last tournament with Lunala 1shotting Ogerpon with a crit and flipping the match, turning an otherwise winning play into a loss over sheer rng)

(But eh, the heavy RNG in pokemon is an already talked about issue, nothing new there, we all know it's there to stay)

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Anyone who sees the new Discord update and says "Heh, u all complain but u will get used to it in a week :sunglasses:" should be imprisoned

This UI barely passes basic visual aesthetic principles let alone being more practical. I know someone with dyslexia and they instantly found it hard to read shit and increasing Zoom makes the UI look even more dogshit somehow

That threw me for a loop immediately. The worst part is that I don't even know what changed besides whatever they did that clashed horribly with my font size and zoom settings.

r/justfuckmyshitup, UI form.

View attachment 725589
i despise the frostbite status condition and do not think it should replace freeze.

I don't even remember what Frostbite does, and I'm 100% sure it should replace Freeze.

AWFUL mechanic.

ive had many ideas on how to retool freeze and sleep, but my main issue is that they always end up boring :( idk maybe im just stupid lol but they lack some of the fun flavor of the current status

This is difficult tbh, but again, when the options are so bad, even boring looks ok.

I don't see Frostbite with an offensive debuff really finding a home within the Ice type, given that Water is right there as a defensive juggernaut that already has a tendency to overshadow Ice even when STAB is in play. A hit to defenses seems more in line with Ice's strengths.

The thing is that whatever status effect it gets, it should be focused on helping the slow, bulky Ice-types.

Come to think of it, realistically, what could be good effects to replace Freeze and Sleep? Spore is out of control in VGC lmao.

 

[Just A Seaking]

I don't see Frostbite with an offensive debuff really finding a home within the Ice type, given that Water is right there as a defensive juggernaut that already has a tendency to overshadow Ice even when STAB is in play. A hit to defenses seems more in line with Ice's strengths.

I’d say that I see it the opposite way: anything that improves Ice’s competence as a defensive type is a good thing, considering how many Ice types are designed to fill that role. Snow to augment Def and Frostbite to debuff Sp. Atk and provide chip damage in lieu of having good resistances is probably not a good way to design a type from a competitive standpoint, but I feel like it’d be good flavor and give Ice a distinct niche. Standing out in the snow for a while won’t kill you; losing a limb due to frostbite from overexposure probably will.

In the scenario where this happens, though, there is the real threat of Water types becoming the best users of Frostbite, like they were with Burn. Most privileged type of all time, don’t @ me. I’m not sure if Ice Beam and its ilk should see reduced distribution, but at bare minimum any sort of Will-o-Wisp equivalent should not be widely distributed to Water types.

 

[Bakugames]

if we dont want to just make "status that lower stats" again and keep their immobile flavor, one of the things I though to improve freeze and sleep was to give the former a 50% def+spdef buff and the latter heals 33% per turn asleep. this, coupled with normalizing rng (freeze thrawing chance increasing each turn frozen and sleep having the sleep cap maybe go to 2) would give a bit more consideration on using the status and not make it an unilateral gotcha

 

[Karxrida]

We already have sleep (itself a lame and cringe status condition), we don't need that but potentially indefinite.

The last time I landed a Freeze the target defrosted on the same turn. The idea that you'll be frozen for more than maybe 3 turns is ludicrous unless you have the worst luck ever.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I’d say that I see it the opposite way: anything that improves Ice’s competence as a defensive type is a good thing, considering how many Ice types are designed to fill that role. Snow to augment Def and Frostbite to debuff Sp. Atk and provide chip damage in lieu of having good resistances is probably not a good way to design a type from a competitive standpoint, but I feel like it’d be good flavor and give Ice a distinct niche. Standing out in the snow for a while won’t kill you; losing a limb due to frostbite from overexposure probably will.

In the scenario where this happens, though, there is the real threat of Water types becoming the best users of Frostbite, like they were with Burn. Most privileged type of all time, don’t @ me. I’m not sure if Ice Beam and its ilk should see reduced distribution, but at bare minimum any sort of Will-o-Wisp equivalent should not be widely distributed to Water types.

I've said this before, but each type needs moves exclusive to it that really make them shine as a type.

Ironically, Ice does have that with Aurora Veil, but it's nowhere close to splashable enough, and Freeze-Dry doesn't quite cut it either.

Aurora Veil could've worked if it wasn't locked to Snow/Hail. But honestly, I think that each type needs a reliable STAB move that's better than the generic coverage TM, and something actually locked to that type.

Something that really makes you go "Oh, I need an Ice-type because that move is great."

Right now, the best Ice-types are Water-types with Ice Beam. That's just poor design.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Anyone who sees the new Discord update and says "Heh, u all complain but u will get used to it in a week :sunglasses:" should be imprisoned

This UI barely passes basic visual aesthetic principles let alone being more practical. I know someone with dyslexia and they instantly found it hard to read shit and increasing Zoom makes the UI look even more dogshit somehow

Someone posted this in one of the servers I'm in and now I gotta uninstall Discord before I crashout.

The last time I landed a Freeze the target defrosted on the same turn. The idea that you'll be frozen for more than maybe 3 turns is ludicrous unless you have the worst luck ever.

10% chance to thaw out in Gen 2, 20% after Gen 3.

These are not good odds, mate.

 

[Karxrida]

10% chance to thaw out in Gen 2, 20% after Gen 3.

These are not good odds, mate.

If I did the math right then there's about a 50% chance to thaw by turn 3. It only goes higher after that.

And as stated before, losing the one turn in a fast meta matters more than being stuck in an ice cube for a bit.

 

[CynicalGiant]

Right now, the best Ice-types are Water-types with Ice Beam. That's just poor design.

game freak has decided that physical ice types must be relegated to the low accuracy zone with rock types

 

[Dive Missile]

I've said this before, but each type needs moves exclusive to it that really make them shine as a type.

Ironically, Ice does have that with Aurora Veil, but it's nowhere close to splashable enough, and Freeze-Dry doesn't quite cut it either.

Aurora Veil could've worked if it wasn't locked to Snow/Hail. But honestly, I think that each type needs a reliable STAB move that's better than the generic coverage TM, and something actually locked to that type.

Something that really makes you go "Oh, I need an Ice-type because that move is great."

Right now, the best Ice-types are Water-types with Ice Beam. That's just poor design.

i think having stab on one of the best offensive types is plenty enough. i see the thing about water types with ice moves outclassing actual ice types fairly often but i can't think of a real example of this, meanwhile there's plenty of good ice types who make strong use of their stabs

 

[Bakugames]

i think this is more of an unpopular opinion here than anywhere else, but i think all types should be extremely homogenous. i think types should all have similar tools and accessibility to them, because pokemon is not a game about types, but the pokemon that have them

 

[AztecCroc]

I don't even remember what Frostbite does, and I'm 100% sure it should replace Freeze.

Burn that halves Special Attack instead of physical.

 

[Hugin]

i think having stab on one of the best offensive types is plenty enough. i see the thing about water types with ice moves outclassing actual ice types fairly often but i can't think of a real example of this, meanwhile there's plenty of good ice types who make strong use of their stabs

Using the Tier system isn't exactly a great metric, but I can't think of a better one. Current OU Ice types: Kyurem. A 660 BST Ice/Dragon box legend with excellent coverage. The next tiered Ice-type is Weavile in UU, followed by Mamoswine in RU.
There's 7 water-types in OU*, 7 in UU, 8 in RU. (I may have miscounted). Yes, Water is a common type, but that's an extreme difference in how useful the two are for most teams. Water is just really good defensively and offensively.

*I do think it's relevant that the waters in OU are either bulky support mons OR they have a move to let them easily beat dragons. Ice is a common tool for this, but the OU mons mostly use Dragon/Fairy to do this.

 

[Dive Missile]

Using the Tier system isn't exactly a great metric, but I can't think of a better one. Current OU Ice types: Kyurem. A 660 BST Ice/Dragon box legend with excellent coverage. The next tiered Ice-type is Weavile in UU, followed by Mamoswine in RU.
There's 7 water-types in OU*, 7 in UU, 8 in RU. (I may have miscounted). Yes, Water is a common type, but that's an extreme difference in how useful the two are for most teams. Water is just really good defensively and offensively.

*I do think it's relevant that the waters in OU are either bulky support mons OR they have a move to let them easily beat dragons. Ice is a common tool for this, but the OU mons mostly use Dragon/Fairy to do this.

weavile is quite good in ou afaik, and this isn't even accounting for mons like iron bundle and baxcalibur who were good enough to be full on banned from the tier. yes there are a lot of waters in just about every tier but at least in ou none of them really run ice moves, which proves my point. i'm not arguing water is a worse type, just that the idea of ice being outclassed by other types using it as coverage is pretty silly

 

[CynicalGiant]

i think having stab on one of the best offensive types is plenty enough. i see the thing about water types with ice moves outclassing actual ice types fairly often but i can't think of a real example of this, meanwhile there's plenty of good ice types who make strong use of their stabs

I think Ice not having a lot of resistances is fine but obviously it only having a singular one (itself) is very strange. I don't think it needs to resist lots of things but just imagine how bad Rock would be if it didn't have a resist against Fire and Flying. There will always be people that say Rock is outclassed by just putting Rock moves on Ground and Fighting types, which I imagine will still continue to be said about Ice if they ever give it more than a singular resistance, lol.

Ice is very similar in a lot of ways to Rock, and each gen they have made its similarities more and more: very strong type coverage offensively, lots of weaknesses defensively, low accuracy physical moves, weather defensive stat boost, making incredibly bulky monsters

 

[vishy fishy]

I think Ice not having a lot of resistances is fine but obviously it only having a singular one (itself) is very strange. I don't think it needs to resist lots of things but just imagine how bad Rock would be if it didn't have a resist against Fire and Flying. There will always be people that say Rock is outclassed by just putting Rock moves on Ground and Fighting types, which I imagine will still continue to be said about Ice if they ever give it more than a singular resistance, lol.

Ice is very similar in a lot of ways to Rock, and each gen they have made its similarities more and more: very strong type coverage offensively, lots of weaknesses defensively, low accuracy physical moves, weather defensive stat boost, making incredibly bulky monsters

I’d honestly say Ice is a bit better than rock

 

[CPU]

Using the Tier system isn't exactly a great metric, but I can't think of a better one. Current OU Ice types: Kyurem. A 660 BST Ice/Dragon box legend with excellent coverage. The next tiered Ice-type is Weavile in UU, followed by Mamoswine in RU.
There's 7 water-types in OU*, 7 in UU, 8 in RU. (I may have miscounted). Yes, Water is a common type, but that's an extreme difference in how useful the two are for most teams. Water is just really good defensively and offensively.

*I do think it's relevant that the waters in OU are either bulky support mons OR they have a move to let them easily beat dragons. Ice is a common tool for this, but the OU mons mostly use Dragon/Fairy to do this.

To be fair isn't Water the most common type across the series and Ice is the least common? Ice has a lot of issues but its competitive scarcity can also be attributed to its numerical rarity.

But yeah, Water is kind of a cracked type. Not much it doesn't do.

 

[Sonikku A]

i think this is more of an unpopular opinion here than anywhere else, but i think all types should be extremely homogenous. i think types should all have similar tools and accessibility to them, because pokemon is not a game about types, but the pokemon that have them

Early game Ice and Dragon type wen
Bug had it mid for too long...

 

[AztecCroc]

Early game Ice and Dragon type wen
Bug had it mid for too long...

Early game dragon was Alola and Galar.