game freak has decided that physical ice types must be relegated to the low accuracy zone with rock types
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
i think having stab on one of the best offensive types is plenty enough. i see the thing about water types with ice moves outclassing actual ice types fairly often but i can't think of a real example of this, meanwhile there's plenty of good ice types who make strong use of their stabs
Burn that halves Special Attack instead of physical.
Using the Tier system isn't exactly a great metric, but I can't think of a better one. Current OU Ice types: Kyurem. A 660 BST Ice/Dragon box legend with excellent coverage. The next tiered Ice-type is Weavile in UU, followed by Mamoswine in RU.
There's 7 water-types in OU*, 7 in UU, 8 in RU. (I may have miscounted). Yes, Water is a common type, but that's an extreme difference in how useful the two are for most teams. Water is just really good defensively and offensively.
*I do think it's relevant that the waters in OU are either bulky support mons OR they have a move to let them easily beat dragons. Ice is a common tool for this, but the OU mons mostly use Dragon/Fairy to do this.
weavile is quite good in ou afaik, and this isn't even accounting for mons like iron bundle and baxcalibur who were good enough to be full on banned from the tier. yes there are a lot of waters in just about every tier but at least in ou none of them really run ice moves, which proves my point. i'm not arguing water is a worse type, just that the idea of ice being outclassed by other types using it as coverage is pretty silly
I think Ice not having a lot of resistances is fine but obviously it only having a singular one (itself) is very strange. I don't think it needs to resist lots of things but just imagine how bad Rock would be if it didn't have a resist against Fire and Flying. There will always be people that say Rock is outclassed by just putting Rock moves on Ground and Fighting types, which I imagine will still continue to be said about Ice if they ever give it more than a singular resistance, lol.
Ice is very similar in a lot of ways to Rock, and each gen they have made its similarities more and more: very strong type coverage offensively, lots of weaknesses defensively, low accuracy physical moves, weather defensive stat boost, making incredibly bulky monsters
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I’d honestly say Ice is a bit better than rock
To be fair isn't Water the most common type across the series and Ice is the least common? Ice has a lot of issues but its competitive scarcity can also be attributed to its numerical rarity.
But yeah, Water is kind of a cracked type. Not much it doesn't do.
Early game Ice and Dragon type wen
Bug had it mid for too long...
Early game dragon was Alola and Galar.
With how fast the current game is, a single turn of "nu uh" is potential to flip a game.
Spore is already a well disliked move in general and it's a *guaranteed* 1 turn loss (with potential of 2 or 3), but you can play around spore (Goggles and grass types exist + you do know that if an Amoongus is on the field there is a high chance it'll put one of your mons to sleep).
The main reason Freeze is so controversial is that it's a random chance. You can't "play around the freeze", outside of using Sun to negate freezing (did you know you cannot be frozen under sun weather?) and with how fast the game has become (in both singles and doubles), a single RNG freeze where you don't instantly thraw out is often gamelosing.
Hence me saying (exagerating) that people would happily take a guaranteed 1hko move over freeze. At least you know that's coming.
Personally I'm evil and want to give Ice Types a break, so I'd keep it
I'd also have both Hail and Snow as separate weathers, with tweaked utility (Hail does chip + buff Def for Ice mons, Snow increases Ice mon speed, and lowers Flying and Water)
Slush Rush (operating under Hail) would be busted, but meh. Most Ice mons need it
I'd also have both Hail and Snow as separate weathers, with tweaked utility (Hail does chip + buff Def for Ice mons, Snow increases Ice mon speed, and lowers Flying and Water)
Slush Rush (operating under Hail) would be busted, but meh. Most Ice mons need it
My only contribution to this discussion is that Snow/Hail is my favorite thing to build around in Doubles, and nothing is funnier than when Blizzard hits that double-freeze.
One of the little joys in Pokemon is reminding people of the things that are beyond their control.
One of the little joys in Pokemon is reminding people of the things that are beyond their control.
I was looking at potential leaks for Legends ZA Megas (not going to talk about them, just my vibe on them) and thought to myself "Wow these look/sound really fucking bad," and then I read someone replying this:
and like, straight-up, maybe I'm just becoming a boomer over time or something but I honestly don't think they've been doing good with designs lately.
I don't like any of the Hisuian designs pretty much. I guess Hisuian Sneasler? Samurott-Hisui, and Dialga-Origin? But that's kinda it. Lilligant-Hisui feels close, but underbaked, same with Goodra-Hisui. Dislike Decidueye-Hisui and Typhlosion-Hisui is just mid to me.
Basculegion is aight.
For Gen 9, I think a lot of ones that are even fairly popular are kinda ugly. Lokix, Pawmot feels underbaked, Oinkologne, Spidops, Dachsbund, Kilowattrel, Klawf, Scovillain, Rabsca, Wugtrio, Veluza etc. etc.
Not a big fan of Galar either. To me pretty much everything post-Gen 7 has been a noticable drop in quality, but I'd say Galar has probably more that I like in the non-legendary parts of the dex than Paldea. I'd say that Paradoxes really carry Gen 9's dex but that also just doesn't feel right to me, like remixing Pokemon is fundamentally easier. And honestly some of them still feel like stinkers, I do not care for Iron Treads.
and like, straight-up, maybe I'm just becoming a boomer over time or something but I honestly don't think they've been doing good with designs lately.
I don't like any of the Hisuian designs pretty much. I guess Hisuian Sneasler? Samurott-Hisui, and Dialga-Origin? But that's kinda it. Lilligant-Hisui feels close, but underbaked, same with Goodra-Hisui. Dislike Decidueye-Hisui and Typhlosion-Hisui is just mid to me.
Basculegion is aight.
For Gen 9, I think a lot of ones that are even fairly popular are kinda ugly. Lokix, Pawmot feels underbaked, Oinkologne, Spidops, Dachsbund, Kilowattrel, Klawf, Scovillain, Rabsca, Wugtrio, Veluza etc. etc.
Not a big fan of Galar either. To me pretty much everything post-Gen 7 has been a noticable drop in quality, but I'd say Galar has probably more that I like in the non-legendary parts of the dex than Paldea. I'd say that Paradoxes really carry Gen 9's dex but that also just doesn't feel right to me, like remixing Pokemon is fundamentally easier. And honestly some of them still feel like stinkers, I do not care for Iron Treads.
If I wanted to be really cynical here, I'd blame dexit: no reason to make a better design than your old favourite if your old favourite doesn't exist. That said, for once I can't commit to this position because for me the drop feels a bit earlier. I find gen 7 to be carried by the Ultra Beasts to the same extent gen 9 is carried by the Paradoxes. I like Vikavolt, Araquanid, Dhelmise, Mimikyu, and that's pretty much it for the generics. Feels pretty similar to having Glimmora, Revavroom, Spidops, Daschbun, end of list as cool gen 9 mons. Gen 8 has... uh... Alcremie-GMax?
I love like half of the pokemon youve mentioned LOL which is just taste ig, but I think gen 9 is probably one of the strongest dex we had since gen 7, but theres still a massive gap there as gen 7s dex has been the peak of the franchise and probably will forever.
Then again idk if I'm a good point of comparison because I don't like most pokedexes? I have favorites of every generation of course, but looking at the overall picture, gen 1, gen 2, gen 4 and gen 6 all have really weak dexes to me, with gen 5 and gen 8 being a lot of high highs and low lows.
Then again idk if I'm a good point of comparison because I don't like most pokedexes? I have favorites of every generation of course, but looking at the overall picture, gen 1, gen 2, gen 4 and gen 6 all have really weak dexes to me, with gen 5 and gen 8 being a lot of high highs and low lows.
I dislike the Paradoxes and UBs as a concept TBH. Some of the designs are good, for sure, but I hate mons that are locked to Victory Road or later. It's fine to have a lategame legendary or two I can ignore, but an entire group of mons? Where am I actually going to use these? I can't even trade their eggs to a new file and run them that way.
Other than that, there's some standout mons for me from all the recent generations. I'm on record as the one person who liked the SWSH fossils, of course, but there's plenty of good ones. Plenty of stinkers too, but that's also nothing new for pokemon.
Other than that, there's some standout mons for me from all the recent generations. I'm on record as the one person who liked the SWSH fossils, of course, but there's plenty of good ones. Plenty of stinkers too, but that's also nothing new for pokemon.
If anything, thinking of them as the best designs of their respective gens amplifies this issue, since there's a reason to rush through the maingame to get to them. A stronger (potentially non-DLC, since that would be months out on initial release and contingent on the base game being worth it already) postgame helps, but ultimately it would be preferable if the regular mons had the best new designs of their games. I just don't believe that is currently the case.
I like the silly rock crab (granted rock is my favorite type lol)
"The new Pokemon suck" has been a very popular opinion since the year 2000.
also leakers/people with the game early describing new things in the worst way possible has for whatever reason been a constant in this industry for like 5 decades lol
when you throw 400 fellas in a game, and between changing them out as the game progresses, and limited battles, you're hardly using them all game, you're not gonna have strong opinions about a particular pokemon because you're not using it enough that distinctions matter. i think paldea's dex was "okay" but i can only remember the few pokemon that succeeded in competitive from it and the ones that normies liked. they were getting all excited about Tinkaton's lore with Corvinight.
I can see why some would like Gen 9's dex and tbh I think I'm just becoming a Pokeboomer
I'm getting to the point where I'm like "Kilowattrel doesn't look like a Pokemon", and I did one of those Name Every Pokemon in X Region quizzes yesterday and Paldea is by far my worst performance (iirc 81/120 named), as a control my Kanto is like 138/151
Chat I couldn't name fucking Crocolar I'm so cooked