Unpopular opinions

[Worldie]

If I did the math right then there's about a 50% chance to thaw by turn 3. It only goes higher after that.

And as stated before, losing the one turn in a fast meta matters more than being stuck in an ice cube for a bit.

With how fast the current game is, a single turn of "nu uh" is potential to flip a game.

Spore is already a well disliked move in general and it's a *guaranteed* 1 turn loss (with potential of 2 or 3), but you can play around spore (Goggles and grass types exist + you do know that if an Amoongus is on the field there is a high chance it'll put one of your mons to sleep).
The main reason Freeze is so controversial is that it's a random chance. You can't "play around the freeze", outside of using Sun to negate freezing (did you know you cannot be frozen under sun weather?) and with how fast the game has become (in both singles and doubles), a single RNG freeze where you don't instantly thraw out is often gamelosing.

Hence me saying (exagerating) that people would happily take a guaranteed 1hko move over freeze. At least you know that's coming.

 

[Sonikku A]

Personally I'm evil and want to give Ice Types a break, so I'd keep it

I'd also have both Hail and Snow as separate weathers, with tweaked utility (Hail does chip + buff Def for Ice mons, Snow increases Ice mon speed, and lowers Flying and Water)

Slush Rush (operating under Hail) would be busted, but meh. Most Ice mons need it

 

[Sixfortyfive]

My only contribution to this discussion is that Snow/Hail is my favorite thing to build around in Doubles, and nothing is funnier than when Blizzard hits that double-freeze.

One of the little joys in Pokemon is reminding people of the things that are beyond their control.

 

[ant4456]

I was looking at potential leaks for Legends ZA Megas (not going to talk about them, just my vibe on them) and thought to myself "Wow these look/sound really fucking bad," and then I read someone replying this:

and like, straight-up, maybe I'm just becoming a boomer over time or something but I honestly don't think they've been doing good with designs lately.

I don't like any of the Hisuian designs pretty much. I guess Hisuian Sneasler? Samurott-Hisui, and Dialga-Origin? But that's kinda it. Lilligant-Hisui feels close, but underbaked, same with Goodra-Hisui. Dislike Decidueye-Hisui and Typhlosion-Hisui is just mid to me.

Basculegion is aight.

For Gen 9, I think a lot of ones that are even fairly popular are kinda ugly. Lokix, Pawmot feels underbaked, Oinkologne, Spidops, Dachsbund, Kilowattrel, Klawf, Scovillain, Rabsca, Wugtrio, Veluza etc. etc.

Not a big fan of Galar either. To me pretty much everything post-Gen 7 has been a noticable drop in quality, but I'd say Galar has probably more that I like in the non-legendary parts of the dex than Paldea. I'd say that Paradoxes really carry Gen 9's dex but that also just doesn't feel right to me, like remixing Pokemon is fundamentally easier. And honestly some of them still feel like stinkers, I do not care for Iron Treads.

 

[Ironmage]

I was looking at potential leaks for Legends ZA Megas (not going to talk about them, just my vibe on them) and thought to myself "Wow these look/sound really fucking bad," and then I read someone replying this:

View attachment 726353

and like, straight-up, maybe I'm just becoming a boomer over time or something but I honestly don't think they've been doing good with designs lately.

I don't like any of the Hisuian designs pretty much. I guess Hisuian Sneasler? Samurott-Hisui, and Dialga-Origin? But that's kinda it. Lilligant-Hisui feels close, but underbaked, same with Goodra-Hisui. Dislike Decidueye-Hisui and Typhlosion-Hisui is just mid to me.

Basculegion is aight.

For Gen 9, I think a lot of ones that are even fairly popular are kinda ugly. Lokix, Pawmot feels underbaked, Oinkologne, Spidops, Dachsbund, Kilowattrel, Klawf, Scovillain, Rabsca, Wugtrio, Veluza etc. etc.

Not a big fan of Galar either. To me pretty much everything post-Gen 7 has been a noticable drop in quality, but I'd say Galar has probably more that I like in the non-legendary parts of the dex than Paldea. I'd say that Paradoxes really carry Gen 9's dex but that also just doesn't feel right to me, like remixing Pokemon is fundamentally easier. And honestly some of them still feel like stinkers, I do not care for Iron Treads.

If I wanted to be really cynical here, I'd blame dexit: no reason to make a better design than your old favourite if your old favourite doesn't exist. That said, for once I can't commit to this position because for me the drop feels a bit earlier. I find gen 7 to be carried by the Ultra Beasts to the same extent gen 9 is carried by the Paradoxes. I like Vikavolt, Araquanid, Dhelmise, Mimikyu, and that's pretty much it for the generics. Feels pretty similar to having Glimmora, Revavroom, Spidops, Daschbun, end of list as cool gen 9 mons. Gen 8 has... uh... Alcremie-GMax?

 

[Bakugames]

I love like half of the pokemon youve mentioned LOL which is just taste ig, but I think gen 9 is probably one of the strongest dex we had since gen 7, but theres still a massive gap there as gen 7s dex has been the peak of the franchise and probably will forever.

Then again idk if I'm a good point of comparison because I don't like most pokedexes? I have favorites of every generation of course, but looking at the overall picture, gen 1, gen 2, gen 4 and gen 6 all have really weak dexes to me, with gen 5 and gen 8 being a lot of high highs and low lows.

 

[Hugin]

I dislike the Paradoxes and UBs as a concept TBH. Some of the designs are good, for sure, but I hate mons that are locked to Victory Road or later. It's fine to have a lategame legendary or two I can ignore, but an entire group of mons? Where am I actually going to use these? I can't even trade their eggs to a new file and run them that way.

Other than that, there's some standout mons for me from all the recent generations. I'm on record as the one person who liked the SWSH fossils, of course, but there's plenty of good ones. Plenty of stinkers too, but that's also nothing new for pokemon.

 

[Ironmage]

I dislike the Paradoxes and UBs as a concept TBH. Some of the designs are good, for sure, but I hate mons that are locked to Victory Road or later. It's fine to have a lategame legendary or two I can ignore, but an entire group of mons? Where am I actually going to use these? I can't even trade their eggs to a new file and run them that way.

Other than that, there's some standout mons for me from all the recent generations. I'm on record as the one person who liked the SWSH fossils, of course, but there's plenty of good ones. Plenty of stinkers too, but that's also nothing new for pokemon.

If anything, thinking of them as the best designs of their respective gens amplifies this issue, since there's a reason to rush through the maingame to get to them. A stronger (potentially non-DLC, since that would be months out on initial release and contingent on the base game being worth it already) postgame helps, but ultimately it would be preferable if the regular mons had the best new designs of their games. I just don't believe that is currently the case.

 

[CynicalGiant]

Klawf

I like the silly rock crab (granted rock is my favorite type lol)

 

[Sonikku A]

I like Klawf too, but it is an issue to make late game super busted in sets the past few Gens. I still feel UBs shouldn't have been capturable mons

 

[Sixfortyfive]

"The new Pokemon suck" has been a very popular opinion since the year 2000.

 

[CynicalGiant]

"The new Pokemon suck" has been a very popular opinion since the year 2000.

also leakers/people with the game early describing new things in the worst way possible has for whatever reason been a constant in this industry for like 5 decades lol

 

[Basedwell]

when you throw 400 fellas in a game, and between changing them out as the game progresses, and limited battles, you're hardly using them all game, you're not gonna have strong opinions about a particular pokemon because you're not using it enough that distinctions matter. i think paldea's dex was "okay" but i can only remember the few pokemon that succeeded in competitive from it and the ones that normies liked. they were getting all excited about Tinkaton's lore with Corvinight.

 

[ant4456]

I love like half of the pokemon youve mentioned LOL which is just taste ig, but I think gen 9 is probably one of the strongest dex we had since gen 7, but theres still a massive gap there as gen 7s dex has been the peak of the franchise and probably will forever.

Then again idk if I'm a good point of comparison because I don't like most pokedexes? I have favorites of every generation of course, but looking at the overall picture, gen 1, gen 2, gen 4 and gen 6 all have really weak dexes to me, with gen 5 and gen 8 being a lot of high highs and low lows.

I can see why some would like Gen 9's dex and tbh I think I'm just becoming a Pokeboomer

I'm getting to the point where I'm like "Kilowattrel doesn't look like a Pokemon", and I did one of those Name Every Pokemon in X Region quizzes yesterday and Paldea is by far my worst performance (iirc 81/120 named), as a control my Kanto is like 138/151

Chat I couldn't name fucking Crocolar I'm so cooked

 

[pokemon4eva]

I said before I'm not a fan of the Paradoxes (in general, some specific ones I do like), and thinking it through it's because they check out all of the usual boxes:
1. They're uninspired, this is more agreed with the Future ones, but the Past ones also suffer from this, around half of them are just "let's give them bigger teeth/hair" and call it a day.

2. They're overly dominant in competitive, you see them everywhere across both non official and VGC scenes and it's tiring to see the meta revolving around them. Ironically it seems this is also the main factor of their popularity.

3. The concept has a lot of interest and intrigue with the whole time travel theme the games have, only to answer with a measly "well mayyyybe they're from parallel universes" in the DLC. I just think it's dumb to suddenly pull a multiverse and with such a lack of clarity, and now every Bulbapedia description has to look like this.

 

[Sonikku A]

I can see why some would like Gen 9's dex and tbh I think I'm just becoming a Pokeboomer

I'm getting to the point where I'm like "Kilowattrel doesn't look like a Pokemon"

...Really?

Kilo is basically electric Swellow, fairly standard of a bird mon. Bomberdier and Flamigo are more contemporary or abstract in comparison

 

[CPU]

Nah bombirdier is paldea's pelipper, I think it fits right in

And flamigo fits in by being a weirdo

 

[Yung Dramps]

With the benefit of hindsight, the sad irony of Dynamax is that it would've worked significantly better as a gameplay mechanic in a Legends game. There's the obvious appeal of "Dynamax Alphas", for one thing, where you go into a hypothetical revamped Wild Area and see a giant Charizard with blazing wings looming over the horizon you have to dodge and weave around lest your character get hit with a stream of fire the size of a Gyarados. Where things get even more interesting is implementing the mechanic into Z-A's real time combat system. Doing so would introduce a whole new trade-off where your overpowered boss monster now has to deal with reduced mobility and being a massive target.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

With the benefit of hindsight, the sad irony of Dynamax is that it would've worked significantly better as a gameplay mechanic in a Legends game. There's the obvious appeal of "Dynamax Alphas", for one thing, where you go into a hypothetical revamped Wild Area and see a giant Charizard with blazing wings looming over the horizon you have to dodge and weave around lest your character get hit with a stream of fire the size of a Gyarados. Where things get even more interesting is implementing the mechanic into Z-A's real time combat system. Doing so would introduce a whole new trade-off where your overpowered boss monster now has to deal with reduced mobility and being a massive target.

Legends: The Darkest Day is going to be lit.

I dislike the Paradoxes and UBs as a concept TBH. Some of the designs are good, for sure, but I hate mons that are locked to Victory Road or later. It's fine to have a lategame legendary or two I can ignore, but an entire group of mons? Where am I actually going to use these? I can't even trade their eggs to a new file and run them that way.

Other than that, there's some standout mons for me from all the recent generations. I'm on record as the one person who liked the SWSH fossils, of course, but there's plenty of good ones. Plenty of stinkers too, but that's also nothing new for pokemon.

I agree.

The Paradoxes, with the exception of Tusk/Treads, are effectively post-game mons. And at that point... why bother?

Which is a shame, I like a lot of them, especially the past ones. The future ones bug me with all of them sharing the same chromebot look, being called Iron *Word*, and not ONE of them being Steel-type.

Scream Tail is neat tho. Cool design, unique gameplay idea... Great job. Shame it's locked to post-game.

 

[ant4456]

Legends: The Darkest Day is going to be lit.

Lowkey I don't think there's any game that actually needs a Legends game more than SWSH.

No, you don't need to see the Original Dragon. While I'd like Legends Celebi, ultimately that isn't really necessary. Fuck no to Kanto. I think a Legends Hoenn based on the Draconids would be interesting, but SWSH?

Like 80% of the game is based on a historical event we know jack shit about, and then a mechanic with so little lore.

 

[AztecCroc]

Iron *Word*, and not ONE of them being Steel-type

Iron Treads is Steel, so is Iron Crown.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Iron Treads is Steel, so is Iron Crown.

Time to cash in!!!

 

[leafsaber47]

Jessica mention!

Do you actually play Reverse: 1999?

 

[pika pal]

2. They're overly dominant in competitive, you see them everywhere across both non official and VGC scenes and it's tiring to see the meta revolving around them. Ironically it seems this is also the main factor of their popularity.

3. The concept has a lot of interest and intrigue with the whole time travel theme the games have, only to answer with a measly "well mayyyybe they're from parallel universes" in the DLC. I just think it's dumb to suddenly pull a multiverse and with such a lack of clarity, and now every Bulbapedia description has to look like this.

View attachment 726795

So I can't comment on VGC, but in Singles formats, honestly the dominance of the Paradoxes is overblown. The most prominent ones in OU are Tusk (who's moreso a glue to cover bases than a Meta Warper), followed by Raging Bolt (who's an alternate take on Kingambit's heavily centralizing style), Roaring Moon (admittedly up for Suspect over set variety that dwarfs other Dragons and Dancers), and Iron Valiant (which is basically "what if Gen 4 Infernape didn't fall off?"). Aside from the ones banned early on like Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle (which I do know were pretty big Doubles players), it's hard to argue the Paradox Pokemon are "overly dominant" relative to what has been considered an acceptable level of Meta-King for previous and even current Gen. None of them are in the realm of something like Gen 3 Ttar or Skarmory, Gen 4 Jirachi, or Gen 5 TTar/Latios/Excadrill which are single mons who dictate how the entire tier forms around their roles and performance.





My bigger issue is specifically that a lot of the Future Paradox designs feel like they had an idea and then got cold feet on it in almost any direction: Future mons are all "Iron something" but then they have 2 Steel types as opposed to all or none (I might excuse Crown because of the trio but Treads still pops there). Another case is the wishy-washy shift between "give it a chrome plating" like Thorns, Jugulis, or Moth, and actually making creative use of the mechanized concept for things like Iron Bundle's detached head or Iron Hands's... hands giving it more range of movement. The main issue here is SOME of them have interesting designs going, but almost none of them possess a unique silhouette and thus are easy to write off (and correctly as noted for some cases) in still art or static poses that they are displayed in most of the time.

I prefer Paradoxes to the Ultra Beasts in that I think they have much higher highs compared to my overall indifference to the UB's on average, but their lows are much weaker considering the Beasts at least all have uniquely alien designs compared to standard Pokemon ethos, bar maybe the Poipole tree and Stakataka.

 

[vishy fishy]

Do you actually play Reverse: 1999?

Yes

It’s on-and-off