Unpopular opinions

[Sixfortyfive]

Ngl, its moreso other games that I'm worried about. For example, in SSBU, I've been trying to get every character into elite smash and I'm about halfway there, but this took me a year or two to do so far. So I REALLY don't want to lose all that work. I don't usually care about saving all my mons, besides a few which I do already have saved in Home. Other option would be saving all the data onto a hard drive and then transferring it from that. Which prob would be a pain, but does have the best of both worlds.

Fwiw sellers like GameStop regularly do such programs, problem is actually moving your save data

Though there could be reasonable alternative to just fling all your mons to Home and get a fresh save on switch 2...

Have you ever moved an account from one Switch console to another? I'd expect the process to move an account to the Switch 2 to be similar, and it's pretty painless. IIRC you don't even need to have it docked, which should make it easy to do in-store. You might need an active internet connection though.

This thread has been running with mild, mayo-level spicy takes lately, so I'm bringing out something to stir the pot a bit.

The Toxic TM nerf wasn't bad by itself, but it was kind of excessive. Many defensive mons suddenly lost a major way to force the game to progress, so I have a compromise. Toxic back as a universal TM, inflicting regular poison, unless used by a Poison-type. (Alternatively, Toxic back to universal TM status, and the regular Poison-type poisoning status moves inflict bad poison instead.)

I like this in theory because it's still trying to do poison types a solid, but how valuable would normal poison status be for the Pokemon that regain access to it?

I dunno. Maybe you could make it function kind of like Toxic Spikes where using it again on a Pokemon that's already poisoned would "upgrade" the status condition to badly poisoned, but only make this extra step necessary for non-poison-type users; poison types using Toxic still inflict bad poison from the 1st use. But just typing this out makes me think I'm trying to overcomplicate something for no real benefit.

 

[Worldie]

Have you ever moved an account from one Switch console to another? I'd expect the process to move an account to the Switch 2 to be similar, and it's pretty painless. IIRC you don't even need to have it docked, which should make it easy to do in-store. You might need an active internet connection though.

Moving data does require both Switches to be turned on and close to each other.
Pretty harmless to do when you're at home, but I can't guarantee a given GameStop place will be fine with you saying "oh let me take this a few minutes, just need to move my data" in their shop.
(ofc they may be reasonable and let you, but no guarantees there)

 

[Lontra Assassina]

I usually groan at the idea of turn-based combat series moving into action combat, but honestly? I'm pretty okay with, or excited even, at the idea of PLZA (and gen 10 maybe) going in that direction. Mainly because:
-Champions exists now;
-The combat in ZA seems to be able to preserve the individuality of each Pokémon and isn't just a button-mashing fest;
-Traditional combat already peaked with gen 7 and they're probably not gonna do that again lol (you could even say having more involved boss battles is detrimental with their target audience)

 

[Mad Ram]

Kind of a hot take, but people really glaze certain spin offs way too much. I mean yeah, games like Colosseum and Mystery Dungeon are good, but really they get built up too damn much in my opinion, and frankly I think part of the reason is just few people have played them. For reference Crystal, probably the lowest selling mainline game at 6.3 million copies, has sold just under twice the amount of Explorers of Sky, Colosseum, and XD combined. Even the Mystery Dungeon Switch remake only sold a bit over a million. It seems more like people have generally no experience with them and take uncritically the words of the people who did play them and love them.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Kind of a hot take, but people really glaze certain spin offs way too much. I mean yeah, games like Colosseum and Mystery Dungeon are good, but really they get built up too damn much in my opinion, and frankly I think part of the reason is just few people have played them. For reference Crystal, probably the lowest selling mainline game at 6.3 million copies, has sold just under twice the amount of Explorers of Sky, Colosseum, and XD combined. Even the Mystery Dungeon Switch remake only sold a bit over a million. It seems more like people have generally no experience with them and take uncritically the words of the people who did play them and love them.

I'm calling it now: Once Colosseum/XD release on NSO, their reputation will see a steep decline over the following years, especially the former. So much of Orre's acclaim and legacy is built on being "The secret 3D Pokemon classic Nintendo doesn't want you to play" which has generated a bubble of mystique that's soon to be popped. We call this "Sonic CD syndrome"

 

[ant4456]

Kind of a hot take, but people really glaze certain spin offs way too much. I mean yeah, games like Colosseum and Mystery Dungeon are good, but really they get built up too damn much in my opinion, and frankly I think part of the reason is just few people have played them. For reference Crystal, probably the lowest selling mainline game at 6.3 million copies, has sold just under twice the amount of Explorers of Sky, Colosseum, and XD combined. Even the Mystery Dungeon Switch remake only sold a bit over a million. It seems more like people have generally no experience with them and take uncritically the words of the people who did play them and love them.

pokemon colo and xd are mid but mystery dungeon is great, idk why you're slandering that

its not about "built up too damn much" it's that you just aren't the demographic. you have to realize 90% of PMD fans in 2025 are furries (sometimes because of PMD, sometimes not) who think the gameplay is mid, art story and graphical style is great, and while if all you care about gameplay its mostly w/e... if you're in the demographic it's a must play and probably one of your favorite games of all time

all it takes is Don't Ever Forget to make like literal millions of people cry or want to cry. that's powerful art. generally more powerful than your average pokemon game which is basically fuckin Kirby for Monster RPGs, consumed as disposable hits of nostalgia and cozy dopamine by the masses

also idk why you're talking about sales this shit makes no sense. for one you're just wrong (RTDX sold around 2 million copies) and explorers of sky was a third version, with the entirety of the Explorers PMD trio selling around 6.37 million units.

two who actually gives a shit. wait until you realize i glaze Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon as hard as EoS, a game that sold like 1.2m copies, because it's good. and if you think that's "unfair" for discourse bc people havent played it then go play it and shit on it accurately

 

[S.A.C. Martin]

Potentially unpopular opinion:

Pokemon Coliseum is better than XD Gale of Darkness in one very specific way.

Soundtrack.

Which I also want to say may be the best in the entire series.

 

[Bakugames]

I think the gameplay of pmd games are better than their story tbh

 

[Mad Ram]

pokemon colo and xd are mid but mystery dungeon is great, idk why you're slandering that

Would you rather I included Conquest? I would have, but that's not something I could find anywhere decent sales figures on even if it's probably low. Also I said they were good games. I just don't think they are the end all be all like the fandom generally thinks, and even then they are a lot more... love it or hate it as with other rogue likes. I just think we see they have an inflated reputation in the fandom because few people played them compared to everything else and people end up repeating them in a kind of circlejerk even if they have no experience more direct than watching a video essay on them.

also idk why you're talking about sales this shit makes no sense. for one you're just wrong (RTDX sold around 2 million copies) and explorers of sky was a third version, with the entirety of the Explorers PMD trio selling around 6.37 million units.

My mistake then. I got that wrong and somehow got it mixed up with SMD's sales. Now it's just a third of those who played Crystal. And I used Explorers of Sky for example because it's praised as the best one despite being the one that fewest people actually played.

two who actually gives a shit. wait until you realize i glaze Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon as hard as EoS, a game that sold like 1.2m copies, because it's good. and if you think that's "unfair" for discourse bc people havent played it then go play it and shit on it accurately

I have no problem with people liking it. I have a problem with people who've never played the games uncritically saying they are the best thing ever and that all the mainline games are shit in comparison. The ColoBros or the ConquestBros or the SkyBros. Those guys are just annoying. That's the reason I use sales figures because I highly doubt many of the people who sing their praises even touched them. As Yung Dramps said. Much of their mystique is in being "the games you've never played."

Edit: Just after finishing this, I was recommended a youtube video on Colosseum describing it verbatim in the title as a "Pokémon game you've never played." Youtubers not beating the allegations

 

[ant4456]

Would you rather I included Conquest?

no i dont care about conquest

I said they were good games. I just don't think they are the end all be all like the fandom generally thinks, and even then they are a lot more... love it or hate it as with other rogue likes. I just think we see they have an inflated reputation in the fandom because few people played them compared to everything else and people end up repeating them in a kind of circlejerk even if they have no experience more direct than watching a video essay on them.

this is just a weird mentality. if something has a lot of people who say its their favorite thing in the medium, there is probably something about it that you just dont get, rather than them just having some niche shit

My mistake then. I got that wrong and somehow got it mixed up with SMD's sales. Now it's just a third of those who played Crystal. And I used Explorers of Sky for example because it's praised as the best one despite being the one that fewest people actually played.

pokemon crystal sold 6.39m units
pokemon mystery dungeon explorers of time, darkness and sky sold 6.37m units
pokemon super mystery dungeon sold 1.2m units

i also wanna note using sales numbers for these old ass games is fucking stupid because emulators exist

there are probably millions of people who have used emulators to play both pokemon crystal and explorers of sky. pretty much any old critically acclaimed game will have massive emulation

this was a 2010 article. so back when these games were new and being sold

for some perspective nintendo games that are new have had upwards of millions of pirated copies, soon after launch, and that's part of why nintendo cares so much about the kind of thing. the amount of people who have emulated these decades old games that are extremely easy to run on basically any modern (or even old) hardware is uncountable

im gonna let you in on a secret. i do not know a single person who has played explorers of sky before like 2012, of like 20 people I know that have played it.

the PMD community has people trickle in all the time from people who played on emulators or people asking how best to emulate the games

pokemon coloseum and xd didn't sell well but is it really that hard to believe that a lot of the chatter is people who emulated games that are extremely easy to emulate

I have no problem with people liking it. I have a problem with people who've never played the games uncritically saying they are the best thing ever and that all the mainline games are shit in comparison. The ColoBros or the ConquestBros or the SkyBros. Those guys are just annoying.

you are just assuming they haven't played the game based on faulty math and faulty reasoning

That's the reason I use sales figures because I highly doubt many of the people who sing their praises even touched them.

said faulty reasoning

Edit: Just after finishing this, I was recommended a youtube video on Colosseum describing it verbatim in the title as a "Pokémon game you've never played." Youtubers not beating the allegations

now will you tell us if this person played the game or not

 

[Ironmage]

What's this about positive thoughts for the pokemon games you've never played? Me thinking the current mainline games are lagging behind PMD (though I prefer Rescue Team to Explorers) or Conquest or Colosseum is definitely related to not having played that entire list, but I've played those spinoffs. The group I haven't played is the one I don't think is worth playing.

 

[ant4456]

to push the point home: there are people in the PMD community who weren't alive when explorers of sky came out that love explorers of sky

and I wasn't alive for Pokemon Colosseum myself (though I am not that fond of that game, you get the picture)

these games didn't suddenly stop getting picked up by new players when the DS died and companies stopped tracking or reporting their sales numbers, and if anything them being good enough to be talked about 15 years later guarantees they will continue being played by people and the cycle will continue

 

[Mad Ram]

Ok, changing my thoughts. Maybe just MD fans are obnoxious as a general rule and that's why EoS advocates are like that.

 

[ant4456]

Ok, changing my thoughts. Maybe just MD fans are obnoxious as a general rule and that's why EoS advocates are like that.

no your take just sucks and is the least charitable take you could have on media

you don't care for the game so you worked backwards to find a reason that, if it has to be mid, why do people seem to love it? so your reasoning is that clearly not enough people have played it, because if they did there'd be more people that think it's mid than people that love it.

in actuality, it's a game a lot of people have played, and it's a good game

do you know how many games that are mid that sold 10 million + copies no one gives a shit about 15 years later? if people still care about it it's because the game has the sauce. your take just sucks

edit: "Eos advocates" is so fucking funny bc no one has to "advocate" for a very popular game that most people understand to be a cult classic LMAO. it's just another way you are downplaying it for no reason, no one says "Mario Kart advocate" for people that just like Mario Kart

 

[Sonikku A]

I think the gameplay of pmd games are better than their story tbh

I disagree to an extant as it suffers from being repetitive late game, but I have another hot take

I do not like Wands in Super/RTDX. Long range moves are busted in general in PMD, so the player not needing to sacrifice TMs for it BUT spamming easily found items breaks the curve. It doesn't help that they removed the basic attack, so they really pressure you to use items, even for close ranged enemies. It's even weirder cuz GTI already made early moves like Ember suddenly long range, with the ability to pass through teammates without hurting them

I also find IQ Groups in Explorers/Wiiware dumb as shit. Similarly, I find Explorer's friend level rate curve worse than OG RT's

Like I get it, grinding multiple mon's IQ is tedious, but I feel simply having a "Tutor" IQ skill or even a post game NPC "school" would help. Make it stackable if multiple members have the Tutor skill, bam

Similarly, I feel PMD can take from mainline in having one grow berries, a hub world that's interactive as you go through the game besides simply talking to NPCs. And then take from Shiren in finding random ally mons in dungeons that aren't Kec, either for temp alliance, requests, or trading/selling something Kec doesn't have

I dunno, I feel they can do more gameplay wise, but they admitted by Super that the series' draw (turning into a mon isekai'd) they ran out of ideas for

 

[Mad Ram]

Lol, lmao. You have really contorted what I said into something I didn't. I enjoyed the MD series. I enjoyed Colosseum and XD, but I find that their presence in the fandom as "le best games of all time" is as a vocal minority, and a bunch of people who've never played them repeat it uncritically and often in an incredibly annoying manner. That's why I use the sales figures, because it implies that more people in the fandom haven't touched them. Even with emulators, that number I doubt is much higher. Even the figures you posted about DS piracy drops off sharply after that with numbers 10 and 11 at 306K and 201K respectively and 17 at not even 90K. This for a series whose prime sales figure in the modern era is roughly equivalent to Pokken Tournament does not bode well. It quite frankly is not a popular series. And frankly, someone in that niche a fandom will have a distorted idea of how popular it is based on being in it. This isn't even just at those games. I find the Orre Games, EoS, and Conquest are the ones most guilty of this. It's a lot like how people were clamoring for a new Snap game and heaped all sorts of praise on it only to forget about it once the sequel came out.

You like EoS? Fine. I have no problem with that, but I'm not talking about you.

 

[ant4456]

I do not like Wands in Super/RTDX. Long range moves are busted in general in PMD, so the player not needing to sacrifice TMs for it BUT spamming easily found items breaks the curve. It doesn't help that they removed the basic attack, so they really pressure you to use items, even for close ranged enemies. It's even weirder cuz GTI already made early moves like Ember suddenly long range, with the ability to pass through teammates without hurting them

I agree for RTDX but not Super

Part of why RTDX is my least favorite game ever is they ported SMD's engine with RT's balancing which is completely different. PSMD is balanced more like a Shiren game, that is to say, items > your main party members. The game throws items at you and lots of them very powerful because you're a Smol Pokemon that doesn't have the base stats.

In most PMDs, your starter Pokemon actually have Legendary Pokemon statlines while in Super you have normal statlines. You don't get the free Protagonist Buff nor do you get easy leveling, so you are supposed to use items to get out of bad situations and IMO it's great, and it's why I think SMD has the best gameplay in the series. It makes me feel like I'm actually defeating Pokemon way stronger than the protagonists by making decisions (spending item slots and resources and min-maxxing income outcome) compared to say, EoS, where I can just spam STAB on not-very-effective targets and I'll win 90% of the time

 

[ant4456]

Lol, lmao. You have really contorted what I said into something I didn't. I enjoyed the MD series. I enjoyed Colosseum and XD, but I find that their presence in the fandom as "le best games of all time" is as a vocal minority, and a bunch of people who've never played them repeat it uncritically and often in an incredibly annoying manner. That's why I use the sales figures, because it implies that more people in the fandom haven't touched them. Even with emulators, that number I doubt is much higher. Even the figures you posted about DS piracy drops off sharply after that with numbers 10 and 11 at 306K and 201K respectively and 17 at not even 90K. This for a series whose prime sales figure in the modern era is roughly equivalent to Pokken Tournament does not bode well. It quite frankly is not a popular series. And frankly, someone in that niche a fandom will have a distorted idea of how popular it is based on being in it. This isn't even just at those games. I find the Orre Games, EoS, and Conquest are the ones most guilty of this. It's a lot like how people were clamoring for a new Snap game and heaped all sorts of praise on it only to forget about it once the sequel came out.

You like EoS? Fine. I have no problem with that, but I'm not talking about you.

Yeah your point is wrong because people never stopped playing the games and in fact more people have emulated any of the games you've talked about than have bought them. By a lot.

RTDX sales do not reflect EoS popularity that doesn't logic. Most PMD fans don't care that much about RTDX in the first place, let alone it being a remake of probably the most midtier entry in the series. EoS is the most popular PMD by far. PMD fanbase has its own disagreements and there's a lot of people who think PMD after EoS isn't good. EoS is significantly more popular than every other PMD combined and it's not even really close.

The Orre games also are being played by 90% people who weren't born when the games came out. Of course the sales numbers do not reflect how much people have actually played it.

The year is 2025. People don't buy DS games. I was like 14 when I emulated Explorers of Sky and if you were born after the game came out, you could be 15 years old. Your math doesn't track to the reality that is that games are not static, and the classics of the medium is largely played post-mortem through emulation that we will probably never have accurate numbers for.

 

[Bakugames]

I disagree to an extant as it suffers from being repetitive late game, but I have another hot take

I think the mystery dungeon format is one of those whos grind i enjoy the most, so I dont mind it. its relaxing to me in a way, if that makes sense. cocomelon for the brain

 

[ant4456]

I think the mystery dungeon format is one of those whos grind i enjoy the most, so I dont mind it. its relaxing to me in a way, if that makes sense. cocomelon for the brain

I feel this with the midgames for RT / EoS especially

I make it a fun game to see how many quests I can clear out in one game, profit, stuff

 

[Sonikku A]

I will forever find it bullshit how you can't recruit mons in the first dungeon in post game

 

[CynicalGiant]

I'm calling it now: Once Colosseum/XD release on NSO, their reputation will see a steep decline over the following years

I'm hoping the inverse happens with Pokemon Conquest when they eventually do DS NSO, I saw a lot of people trying Nobunaga's Ambition in the SNES NSO and want that for the Pokemon version of it, lmao. I think Conquest is legitimately a very good game but I'm also not even remotely surprised it sold terribly outside of Japan, tactics games weren't exactly popular back then anyway.

mystery dungeon is great

The thing I appreciate the most about pokemon mystery dungeon is that, also like Pokemon Conquest, it's a double spinoff. They took a series made by a particular dev and had a lot of the same developers make that series again but with a Pokemon coat of paint over it. So whether you are an original dragon quest mystery dungeon fan, original nobunaga's ambition fan, or pokemon fan you get something out of these spinoffs.

granted I have no idea how many fans of pokemon mystery dungeon even know about the other mystery dungeons whether from dragon quest or just all over the psp and vita.

 

[ant4456]

The thing I appreciate the most about pokemon mystery dungeon is that, also like Pokemon Conquest, it's a double spinoff. They took a series made by a particular dev and had a lot of the same developers make that series again but with a Pokemon coat of paint over it. So whether you are an original dragon quest mystery dungeon fan, original nobunaga's ambition fan, or pokemon fan you get something out of these spinoffs.

granted I have no idea how many fans of pokemon mystery dungeon even know about the other mystery dungeons whether from dragon quest or just all over the psp and vita.

I've tried Shiren 5 and Chocobo Mystery Dungeon, not into DQ so never tried that one

I'll maybe try Shiren 6 someday, not any time soon, Chocobo was kinda fun

View attachment 733061

 

[Genuine_Angus_B33F]

I'm calling it now: Once Colosseum/XD release on NSO, their reputation will see a steep decline over the following years, especially the former.

I don't know if I agree with this entirely? With complaints of game speed, I definitely understand - it's pretty grueling to play sessions of these games when you start to feel how long each turn takes and track how many loops the battle theme has done in fights that take place before you leave the second town. But gameplay wise, the games hold up quite decently overall to me. An understated part of the orre games is how decently they work as a self-contained entity. The Orre games can reasonably be approached as just A Couple Weird GameCube RPGs, relatively unconcerned with things like pokedex completion and building up a player for postgame PvP / PvE the way the main series is. The focus stays narrow - snag Shadow Pokemon, grind to purify them if you like, battle from linear story beat to linear story beat. The slow engine is thankfully somewhat offset by the games being pretty short, especially Colosseum. For players jumping in with no prior context, if they have a bit of time and patience, I could see this game being quite appreciated.

So much of what I see players complain about in the Orre games is based on comparison to the modern game standards for movepools and Pokemon design. There's cases where I can't help but agree - I wouldn't die on the hill that stuff like the non-evolving Colo Yanma or XD Nosepass are even remotely usable - but watching players that are experienced with the main series stick their noses up at whole swathes of these games' rosters feels like watching a snob turn their nose up at a nice, if bland, cooked meal while at a camp site because they're mad nobody is preparing them an opulent 4 course meal topped with caviar. The game is giving you completely functional tools. If you are nothing without 80+ BP STABs off of your better attacking stat, you probably don't deserve them. Learn to live with an iota of friction between your present and your potential ideal. Engage with the world as it is.

Tangent, Pokemon Conquest. It is so cool but it is also so bad. The units and the maps both try to be fun and gimmicky but in overlaying those gameplay wrinkles something like 70% of the game is rendered unusably clunky at worst and obsolete under the shadow of a handful of reliably broken Warlord + Pokemon combos at best. The overworld mirco management is whatever, I can handle it as a series holdover, but the battles themselves suck. If you go into them with a statistical trump card, you just need to not get hosed by RNG and slowly make blatant moves or hope a map hazard doesn't make things randomly take 5 more turns to resolve than they should have. If a fight is close enough to require actual strategy, your room to leverage player control can be extremely stunted by the small amount of options. It's simultaneously too easy to break over your knee and unfun to play when you unoptimize your play to make things close instead.

 

[Sonikku A]

Inversely Colo focusing entirely on Snag battles means it doesn't have much to do compared to the immediate Gen 3 games at the time. It was a negative point reviewers had back then, alongside human assets being worse than mon ones
It's pretty archaic for the time, and moreso now, all ignoring the game balance issues

XD is a much better game, but people are mad it isn't as edgy