Metagame USUM Pure Hackmons

[Ransei]

Good evening USUM Hackmons thread, tonight I have two things to post about. Firstly, I went into collecting all the replays of USUM PH games that were played in PHPL and assembled them into generating usage stats for them. Here are the PHPL usage stats for USUM PH during PHPL. Take these as you may.

+ ---- + ------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon             | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Mewtwo-Mega-X       |   60 |  47.62% |  53.33% |
| 2    | Blissey             |   48 |  38.10% |  45.83% |
| 3    | Chansey             |   41 |  32.54% |  65.85% |
| 4    | Kartana             |   38 |  30.16% |  60.53% |
| 5    | Zygarde-Complete    |   38 |  30.16% |  47.37% |
| 6    | Groudon-Primal      |   36 |  28.57% |  36.11% |
| 7    | Audino-Mega         |   35 |  27.78% |  42.86% |
| 8    | Mewtwo-Mega-Y       |   34 |  26.98% |  44.12% |
| 9    | Slaking             |   32 |  25.40% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Slowbro-Mega        |   28 |  22.22% |  53.57% |
| 11   | Gengar-Mega         |   27 |  21.43% |  55.56% |
| 12   | Yveltal             |   19 |  15.08% |  26.32% |
| 13   | Gyarados-Mega       |   17 |  13.49% |  64.71% |
| 14   | Meloetta            |   15 |  11.90% |  40.00% |
| 15   | Pheromosa           |   12 |   9.52% |  66.67% |
| 16   | Muk-Alola           |   11 |   8.73% |  45.45% |
| 17   | Rayquaza-Mega       |   11 |   8.73% |  63.64% |
| 18   | Greninja-Ash        |   11 |   8.73% |  81.82% |
| 19   | Scizor-Mega         |   10 |   7.94% |  40.00% |
| 20   | Doublade            |    9 |   7.14% |  55.56% |
| 21   | Heatran             |    9 |   7.14% |  44.44% |
| 22   | Arceus              |    8 |   6.35% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Celesteela          |    8 |   6.35% |  25.00% |
| 24   | Diancie-Mega        |    8 |   6.35% |  37.50% |
| 25   | Ho-Oh               |    7 |   5.56% |  57.14% |
| 26   | Sableye-Mega        |    7 |   5.56% |  71.43% |
| 27   | Necrozma-Dawn-Wings |    6 |   4.76% |  33.33% |
| 28   | Deoxys-Attack       |    6 |   4.76% |  33.33% |
| 29   | Hoopa-Unbound       |    6 |   4.76% |  66.67% |
| 30   | Steelix-Mega        |    6 |   4.76% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Lopunny-Mega        |    5 |   3.97% |  40.00% |
| 32   | Kyogre-Primal       |    5 |   3.97% |  40.00% |
| 33   | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane  |    5 |   3.97% |  40.00% |
| 34   | Lunala              |    5 |   3.97% |  80.00% |
| 35   | Solgaleo            |    4 |   3.17% |  75.00% |
| 36   | Kyurem-White        |    4 |   3.17% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Marowak-Alola       |    4 |   3.17% |  25.00% |
| 38   | Ferrothorn          |    4 |   3.17% |  50.00% |
| 39   | Dialga              |    4 |   3.17% |  50.00% |
| 40   | Deoxys-Speed        |    4 |   3.17% |  25.00% |
| 41   | Regigigas           |    3 |   2.38% |  66.67% |
| 42   | Giratina-Origin     |    3 |   2.38% |  33.33% |
| 43   | Necrozma-Ultra      |    3 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Beedrill-Mega       |    3 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 45   | Gardevoir-Mega      |    2 |   1.59% |  50.00% |
| 46   | Guzzlord            |    2 |   1.59% |  50.00% |
| 47   | Zeraora             |    2 |   1.59% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Excadrill           |    2 |   1.59% | 100.00% |
| 49   | Metagross-Mega      |    2 |   1.59% |  50.00% |
| 50   | Articuno            |    2 |   1.59% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Kyurem-Black        |    2 |   1.59% |  50.00% |
| 52   | Swampert-Mega       |    2 |   1.59% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Heracross-Mega      |    2 |   1.59% |  50.00% |
| 54   | Xerneas             |    1 |   0.79% |   0.00% |
| 55   | Darmanitan-Zen      |    1 |   0.79% | 100.00% |
| 56   | Aggron-Mega         |    1 |   0.79% |   0.00% |
| 57   | Marshadow           |    1 |   0.79% | 100.00% |
| 58   | Froslass            |    1 |   0.79% |   0.00% |
| 59   | Landorus-Therian    |    1 |   0.79% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Oranguru            |    1 |   0.79% |   0.00% |
| 61   | Incineroar          |    1 |   0.79% |   0.00% |
| 62   | Tyranitar-Mega      |    1 |   0.79% |   0.00% |
| 63   | Aerodactyl-Mega     |    1 |   0.79% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Escavalier          |    1 |   0.79% | 100.00% |
| 65   | Stakataka           |    1 |   0.79% | 100.00% |
| 66   | Magearna            |    1 |   0.79% | 100.00% |

You can check out the HPL Usage Stats thread to see how they compare to the usage stats during our first Hackmons Premier League, a separate tournament that happened from late August to early October of last year.

Here are all the PHPL replays as well that I used to generate this: https://pastebin.com/NXmqymvF feel free to tell me if I got something wrong.

Secondly comes an accouncement.

I've been deleting a lot of one-liner posts as of recent so I want to remind you all that this thread is not to be treated like the Pure Hackmons room or Discord. casual one-liner posts and discussions can go in the room or the discord but the threads are meant for constructive posts that may add something meaningful to the overall discussion given in them. Please do not use this thread to post casual one-liners or unconstructive posts. It otherwise becomes disruptive to the overall quality of the thread. If you want to respond with a short one-liner post use the Pure Hackmons room or Discord to do so and feel free to tag who you're replying to (upon their permission). That is all. Have a good night.

 

[Eyeos]

Personal wg vr
Not ranked within tier

Why wonder guard vr instead of regular vr?

The regular vr as a lot more pokemon that I have no experience whatsoever so I don’t think I should make a vr for it rn (also I can’t decide where to put haft the pokemon).

I would like to preface that I’m mostly basing my opinion on latter experiences but I’ve played pretty much every notable player using serious teams also I wouldn’t really change much if I was exclusively playing against top talent (honestly I like running more goofy stuff vs serious competition but that’s just me). I’m also mostly balance/stall player who doesn’t use innards very often so if I’m wrong about some offensive stuff uh whoops.

A+
It’s audino they have the type combo with unique weaknesses so u can run it with everyone it’s sunsteel weak which does matter sometimes but it’s fine.
I think Meloetta is slightly better for offensive structures with 1 wg or 2 wg where one of them is offensive along with the rest of the team when compared to audino but audino is better at balance so in my opinion they don’t have a big enough gap for a tier difference.
A
This is mostly because nobody is running fighting moves on their moon sweepers so this is pretty good right now probably going to change it if fighting becomes more common.
It’s pretty good nothing special really it lets your mmx run all the moves that make you opponents cry, it has an ok offensive set and pursuit is pretty cool tech I guess.
Very cool pokemon but it has problems mostly in its item selection. Air ballon means you don’t lose to fissure instantly but it means nothing at all in some matches. Dark z means that trick moon users don’t force you to 50/50 between clicking recovery or killing what’s in front of you but you lose to spore moon users more often and ur fissure weak. Safety goggles mean you don’t lose to spore but you do lose to trick and fissure. Shed shell means you don’t lose to shadow tag as often but I think you get the point by now. Because moon users can break muk sometimes it means they will if you don’t have the right items and that’s the main thing holding muk back because it always has a lot more variance in its performance compared to its competitors but it still works most of the time.
Slowbro beats sunsteel and physical photon, sometimes it doesn’t, very cool pokemon (idk what to put here).
A-
Free spore immune is very nice. Being immune to t spikes is very nice. Slow pivot is very nice. Fire and fighting weak is not nice. It’s also not that bulky but it’s serviceable.
This is just mega gyarados but less versatile. Can do some cool tech but can also get pp stalled by zyguard and needs to run a billion coverage move. It still can just win games sometimes but that’s becoming more and more rare still good do.
YEA HEATRAN IS A- WHAT ABOUT IT. I’m probably biased but being once of the best sunsteel checks is very nice and Groudon losing means heatran keeps winning. It also beats harvest Slack pretty consistently if u run the right move and lava plume is also a really disgusting move
Ash greninja with a new coat of paint it does the same things as ash greninja, it has the same problems as ash greninja, it has more power but loses speed and that’s about it.
B+
I’m running out of ways of saying steel type wg good but this one is a flying type so that’s cool I guess
My problem with this mon is that it fits on very few teams so while it does give value on those teams it’s very rare
Scizor has the problem of being ferro but a little worse it functions fine enough I guess
It’s slowbro but it takes moon better and isn’t ghost weak I guess but usually loses to the same thing slowbro loses to and mmx now kills u which really sucks.
I don’t use this much but it has good results so I trust it being here
B
I hate this thing but it works fine as a nitch anti photon tech
regigigas too, idk what this has over arceus besides bluffing that you have a better set or using recycle which takes a billion years to sweep
Rocks weak really sucks but it’s still pretty ok as a pokemon beating moon and sunsteel decently
Can be run it has its nitch and I’ve seen it work occasionally but it’s still dies to a lot
C
there’s a couple better wg I left off this list but my sheer disappointment with this thing makes it on this list because it has so much potential but really it just loses 1v1 to steelix or Groudon because of waves or arrows so it’s just really not good.

I realized I didn’t rank guru it’s ugly that is all

 

[ItzEmanBoss]

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Dread Plate

This is a post that has been around for a little bit now but I revised it because why not and I saw this, wowee! I took inspiration and used Dread plate MMX for a bit and realized. Isn’t spooky plate better? Because you don’t hit imp MMX for super effective or other MMX, Melo gets 2koed by HP Sunsteel which is decently common on MMX and Spooky plate already hits all the psychic and ghost types for super effective that dread plate also hits. I feel like the only reason you would use dread is to hit Melo switches and to chip innards blis.

 

[ZeldaFan1]

Aggron-Mega

Are people finally realizing that M-Aggron is kinda saucy? It has less weaknesses then M-Steelix, very similar bulk, and resists Ice and Sunsteel and Photon, unlike Zygarde. Obviously, Zygarde is much more bulky overall, but M-Aggron is kinda sick. Also, on that note, why is M-Steelix so constantly higher then M-Aggron in VRs? Ground Steel is just kinda worse then pure Steel the vast majority of the time, and the bulk is not that different between them.

 

[ZeldaFan1]

mlix gets t waves stab but it's worse at walling kart bc it's neutral to grass so maggron is better if ur not running t waves pretty much. where u rank them really just depends on how important u think t waves is and most people end up putting magg a full subrank below mlix, but i don't use t waves as often as other ppl so i ranked them closer.

But both M-Aggron and M-Steelix get STAB on Anchor Shot. So why not just use that on M-Aggron over using T-Waves on M-Steelix?

 

[adriancosmoem]

No Guard ​

no guard needs proper representation. no guards get boxed into like 1 or 2 sets constantly, or 1 or 2 mons. this is not how you use no guard. no guard is best at taking unexpected KOs, and people need to learn how to build around that again


stop running me (Lopunny-Mega) @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Sing
- Gastro Acid
- Stealth Rock

people have got to stop running this set and thinking they're serving... does it work sometimes? yes. but is everyone going to expect it and play around it? yes. if you are expected, you are losing, full stop. this set gets dicked by a whole manner of popular offensive mons and moongeist immunity is the only thing keeping it alive in that mu. mmy and priority just own you, especially since you're weak to the two most common -ates. people who claim that mlop outspeeds 130s so it's good need to be serious. none of the 130s are running +spe right now. anything 115 and up has a sufficient speed tier for fast ng. if you win with this and think the set is good because of it, you need to stop and realize that everything with ng can win games


1100s teas (Deoxys-Speed) @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Sing
- Gastro Acid
- Stealth Rock

honestly i'd run this before mlop nowadays, it's better into offense bc you don't autolose to mmy. typing's really bad though, and it's just as obvious as mlop, so don't run this either

so who are good ngs? literally everything else.

Fast No Guards

see something you disagree with in there? a mon who you think is unviable as a no guard? you are in a box. none of these are unviable no guards. there are no unviable no guards in this game. you can lose to sheer cold mray and scream about how unviable it is in phcord; does that change the fact that you were taken by surprise, so the opponent got a free kill? this is how no guard is supposed to work. there are ngs that are worse than others, that's for sure, but thinking linearly in terms of viability is how you become a 1500 ladder balance hovercraft

Slow No Guards

anything unviable in this slot? nobody would ever use these as ngs, right? i'm sure something will stick out on this list that will make you go, "wtf, nobody would ever run that as a no guard when there are so many better sets! literally nobody runs that!" if you said that to any mon on this list, you are in a box. stop thinking that mons are "above" no guard. everything can run no guard, and everything can be good at running no guard, because the only thing that makes this ability good is surprise. the key is not speed, it is not power, it is not bulk. it's surprise. it's the opponent not expecting the ohko move

all of these as no guards are, in fact, "better" than mlop and deo-s, because think about it: if a doublade is in vs your mmx and you have a wg and a bouncer in the back, who are you switching to first? if you said wg, you're lying to yourself. all you're going to think about in that moment is prank wow, and then you're going to lose your bouncer, and that is exactly how you use ng: you lure threats that you don't want in this game, and you remove them. suddenly they're a mon down. perhaps you eliminated something that was walling your sweeper, or you took out their breaker that threatens your whole team, or you got rid of their speed control. either way, your opponent's "unviable" set that "nobody runs" just paved an extremely easy path for their victory. think pragmatically when building

 

[aidan amoongus]

But both M-Aggron and M-Steelix get STAB on Anchor Shot. So why not just use that on M-Aggron over using T-Waves on M-Steelix?

thousand waves stab is imo to just hit harder-anchor shot legit works the same
the only reason why you would use mega steelix over mega aggron for stab twaves is trying to get a cheeky ko onto an unsuspecting alolan muk or for big damage. this is why i run twaves on zygod a lot if i have a harvest slaking answer so i dont need to run core for the last slot
imo its not important because better players will not just switch a muk and let it sit in front of a zygod/msteelix/aggron, and if they do, im pretty sure twaves doesnt ko, and it just does a lot of damage, and they likely have shed shell

personally i like steelix over maggron but they do pretty much the same job-to wall hp kart
imo grass on kart is usually less rare? so thats not a concern for walling hp kart bc usually on mg and and ng kart run grass stab. i also feel like steelix walls physical attackers better in general but its an opinion. tho tbf putting steelix one rank entirely over maggron is dumb imo they do the same thing, and twaves stab costing 1 entire rank is dumb

 

[Guysmash]

No Guard ​

no guard needs proper representation. no guards get boxed into like 1 or 2 sets constantly, or 1 or 2 mons. this is not how you use no guard. no guard is best at taking unexpected KOs, and people need to learn how to build around that again


stop running me (Lopunny-Mega) @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Sing
- Gastro Acid
- Stealth Rock

people have got to stop running this set and thinking they're serving... does it work sometimes? yes. but is everyone going to expect it and play around it? yes. if you are expected, you are losing, full stop. this set gets dicked by a whole manner of popular offensive mons and moongeist immunity is the only thing keeping it alive in that mu. mmy and priority just own you, especially since you're weak to the two most common -ates. people who claim that mlop outspeeds 130s so it's good need to be serious. none of the 130s are running +spe right now. anything 115 and up has a sufficient speed tier for fast ng. if you win with this and think the set is good because of it, you need to stop and realize that everything with ng can win games


1100s teas (Deoxys-Speed) @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Sing
- Gastro Acid
- Stealth Rock

honestly i'd run this before mlop nowadays, it's better into offense bc you don't autolose to mmy. typing's really bad though, and it's just as obvious as mlop, so don't run this either

so who are good ngs? literally everything else.

Fast No Guards

see something you disagree with in there? a mon who you think is unviable as a no guard? you are in a box. none of these are unviable no guards. there are no unviable no guards in this game. you can lose to sheer cold mray and scream about how unviable it is in phcord; does that change the fact that you were taken by surprise, so the opponent got a free kill? this is how no guard is supposed to work. there are ngs that are worse than others, that's for sure, but thinking linearly in terms of viability is how you become a 1500 ladder balance hovercraft

Slow No Guards

anything unviable in this slot? nobody would ever use these as ngs, right? i'm sure something will stick out on this list that will make you go, "wtf, nobody would ever run that as a no guard when there are so many better sets! literally nobody runs that!" if you said that to any mon on this list, you are in a box. stop thinking that mons are "above" no guard. everything can run no guard, and everything can be good at running no guard, because the only thing that makes this ability good is surprise. the key is not speed, it is not power, it is not bulk. it's surprise. it's the opponent not expecting the ohko move

all of these as no guards are, in fact, "better" than mlop and deo-s, because think about it: if a doublade is in vs your mmx and you have a wg and a bouncer in the back, who are you switching to first? if you said wg, you're lying to yourself. all you're going to think about in that moment is prank wow, and then you're going to lose your bouncer, and that is exactly how you use ng: you lure threats that you don't want in this game, and you remove them. suddenly they're a mon down. perhaps you eliminated something that was walling your sweeper, or you took out their breaker that threatens your whole team, or you got rid of their speed control. either way, your opponent's "unviable" set that "nobody runs" just paved an extremely easy path for their victory. think pragmatically when building

Because of such things I'm scared of NGuard Scarf melo, fake dumbguard (Pure fire/electric) with NGuard and many others

This post is absolutely right and the biggest strength of top players is their ability to win mindgame
Therefore surprising them with a random NGuard is always good : they lose a (probably) needed part of their team + they lose confidence which is very useful for later mindgames

(I will be scared of going on ladder without 4 WGs at least now)

 

[Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier]

No guard Kyurem-White did my taxes and paid for my mortgage, very cool set.

Anyways other than that I'd like to point out how MMX spam singlehandedly increased the gengar usage and how this is easily countered by the ultimate anti-pbond mghiest team, SLAKING SPAM

https://pokepast.es/0b1c0436978e7d45 (shoutout ANinjaDude)

This team is very consistent in beating pbond gengar because of the power of not caring whether or not it presses it's big STAB moves as it finds itself pursuit trapped, smashed around by coverage, and generally having a bad time. It also has a good matchup into hyper offenses that don't have psyspam because of the spam of fakespeed.

Aside from the slaking spam, pursuit huge power slaking has a legitimate niche on mmx spam for the 100% guarantee kill on pbond gengar if you simply read it or sack a mon.

This concludes the anti regigigas propaganda.

 

[splodge]

I ended up scrapping my personal VR, mainly because I lost my draft after writing about 15 mons, which was very demotivating. So instead, I'm just gonna share my opinions on every mon on the VR and some other thoughts.

Still the GOAT of PH. Could maybe be in S+ but I don't want to start an argument this early on.
Basically Chansey but a bit worse. If you're running Imp and you're not Eviolite it doesn't really matter which blob you choose, and on HO teams with no other improofing Blissey is a better Innards. Otherwise use Chansey.
(WG) Balance has definitely fallen off, but WG should still stay in S imo.

Wonder Guard Viability Rankings

First of all, I realized several days ago that it's now been over 1 year since USUM had its permaladder. First of all, happy belated 1st year anniversary to the Gen 7 Pure Hackmons permaladder. It's been a wonderful time so far with lots of new developments made. I hope this continues as we move forward.

I'm using this opportunity to create a new post I've had in mind since. I apologize for how messy this post is. I've been having my thoughts on it scattered around all week and struggled with trying to piece it all together.

Earlier I said I've already said I had nothing new to say about Mega Audino in the Gen 7 Pure Hackmons metagame but after reflecting on the VR changes made as of recent, some things have struck me. Here's what's possibly my final bout of me rambling about Mega Audino in Gen 7 Pure Hackmons. I believe I've already said everything else I needed to say, making future posts about it redundant.

Given my explanation over why I found Mega Audino to be the best Wonder Guard in the metagame, I'm here explain a core reason Mega Audino finds itself in the specific circumstance it's in and why Mega Audino can never truly fall off despite Sunsteel Strike, Searing Sunraze Smash, or other moves Mega Audino does not serve well against being present everywhere in the metagame.

Hardcounting Wonder Guard Mega Audino goes two ways.

1) You either spam Poison-type moves in the game and get walled by a bunch of different Pokémon, whether they're Steel-types, Zygarde-Complete, or other Wonder Guards, as Poison-type coverage only ever exists for Mega Audino and is not great against anything else ever. Even for Poison chip damage.
2) You go out of your way to spam high power Sunsteel Strike or Searing Sunraze Smash alongside coverage, making virtually no Wonder Guard a consistently suitable wall.

You cannot successfully hardcounter Mega Audino teams as much as possible without more than just Mega Audino being punished as a Wonder Guard.

Mega Audino should not be harshly punished for losing against Searing Sunraze Smash or Light That Burns The Sky attackers because

Calcs

252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Muk-Alola: 604-711 (145.8 - 171.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Meloetta: 595-700 (147.2 - 173.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 405-477 (91.2 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Neutrally effective Wonder Guard Pokémon do not survive +0 itemless Searing Sunraze Smash from Mega Mewtwo X

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 447-527 (113.4 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix-Mega: 367-432 (103.6 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Resisted Wonder Guard Pokémon do not survive Huge Power Light That Burns The Sky Mega Mewtwo X after 1 Shell Smash or Extreme Evoboost
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Kartana Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 432-508 (109.6 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Kartana Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix-Mega: 354-417 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Resisted Wonder Guard Pokémon do not survive Searing Sunraze Smash Kartana after 1 Shell Smash or Extreme Evoboost

On top of the calcs above, the most heavy attackers in this game have a very small window of Pokémon being able to wall their move at all, allowing them to run specific coverage moves to target whatever opposing Wonder Guard would come closest to being able to overcome them.

If Kartana raises up in usage, Mega Audino should not be punished, because no Wonder Guard takes the best Kartana sets very well.
If Z-Moves rise up in usage, Mega Audino should not be punished, because no Wonder Guard handles Z-Move attackers very well and the few that could survive in particular circumstances can be overwhelmed by coverage that could easily fit into their set.


Mega Slowbro tends to be used as a wall for Mega Mewtwo X and Kartana, but there are plenty of Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X who run Bug-type moves and more Kartana as of late running Grass-type attacks. Additionally, Mega Slowbro's 5 weaknesses leave it vulnerable to Mega Mewtwo X running a large variety of coverage options for it.

Mega Audino's biggest weaknesses just happen to be the very moves designed to take down all Wonder Guards. When it's not this, it's moves that do nothing against any other Wonder Guard Pokémon, portraying a bigger opportunity cost than running other types of coverage. While Mega Audino is weak to Sunsteel Strike, the greatest Wonder Guard Pokémon who take the move neutrally do not switch into a Huge Power Sunsteel Strike. Otherwise, Mega Audino tends to be bulky enough to find chances of switching into non-Huge Power Sunsteel Strike off most attackers. In addition, Mega Audino's overall bulk is notably higher than every other great defensive Wonder Guard Pokémon in the metagame when Defense and Special Defense are factored, allowing it to take its weaknesses better than non-Sunsteel/Poison weak Wonder Guard Pokémon could take their own weaknesses. While Sunsteel Strike is everywhere, managing Sunsteel Strike isn't as overbearing as Alolan Muk managing Ground-type moves, Meloetta managing Dark-type or Bug-type moves, or Mega Slowbro managing many Grass, Bug, Electric, Ground, and Ghost-type moves. All of which are also very common.


Meloetta is weak to Dark-type moves and Bug-type moves. The latter has become very common as many of the top Wonder Guard Pokémon are weak to Bug. Dark-type attacks are not as common and Meloetta in particular is not a very strong presence in the metagame. However, if it ever becomes significantly problematic, there is little stopping teams from running the valuable Pursuit alongside Bug-type moves. This would stop Meloetta from being able to switch out, punish it significantly with Sunsteel Strike and Bug-type attacks, and render Meloetta significantly less effective as a Pokémon.


Alolan Muk is weak to Ground-type moves. Fissure is now what I'd argue to be the best OHKO move in the metagame due to its merits in hitting and defeating Alolan Muk teams over what Sheer Cold could otherwise do. Flying-type Pokémon are immune to Fissure, but can be counteracted by Zap Cannon and are otherwise not too great of Pokémon in USUM Pure Hackmons altogether. It is rare to see a Flying-type Pokémon serve high effectiveness in this game from what I've seen. Alolan Muk is forced to run Air Balloon in order to overcome Fissure, which is a liability of its own because it makes the Wonder Guard prone to Spore and prone to Shadow Tag Primal Groudon simultaneously. The Air Balloon is also not very difficult to pop in most games as many teams have either Moongeist Beam or Sunsteel Strike somewhere to hit Muk. Once Air Balloon is popped, Alolan Muk is vulnerable to Fissure from No Guard Pokémon and Thousand Waves from the best defensive Pokémon in the game. These combined liabilities are what Mega Audino does not have to go through. While Alolan Muk has the supposed advantage of not being weak to Sunsteel Strike, it hates getting hit by Sunsteel Strike despite this and cannot switch into its best users very effectively. I'd argue it hates Sunsteel Strike more than certain sets of Mega Audino even.


One major error I've seen personally is people trying to rank Wonder Guards based on their physical prowess; particularly, in terms of handling Mega Mewtwo X. Ranking Wonder Guards by how well they can take on Mega Mewtwo X is a fool's errand. If you try to do this, the best Wonder Guard of today would be the worst Wonder Guard by next Tuesday. Let's be real; this is Huge Power Mega Mewtwo X. If a Wonder Guard Pokémon just happens to tick it off a little bit more than the rest, Mega Mewtwo X will go through every coverage move in the book to ensure that Wonder Guard doesn't get a chance to breathe until it becomes less relevant. Mega Mewtwo X in high level gameplay can, will, and should run moves to take down any Wonder Guard they feel is a big enough threat to the team Mega Mewtwo X is in. Not doing so is either a skill issue on the builder or proves the Pokémon was not a great enough threat to concern Mega Mewtwo X in the first place.

Many less powerful Searing Sunraze Smash Pokémon, Light That Burn The Sky, Photon Geyser, and Sunsteel Strike Pokémon exist, which harm Mega Audino more than Wonder Guard Pokémon below it, but these Pokémon are more manageable by other walls in general until they run more extreme, more viable sets. Additionally, unlike any other Wonder Guard, Mega Audino can also pair very well with just about any other wall. I find one of the primary things that make Mega Audino a cut above the rest are its unique weaknesses and overall bulk. Mega Audino serves a better chance of sealing in wins as it can pair with many Pokémon who take Poison-type and Steel-type moves while also not being weak to anything extra, such as Bug-type pivoting moves, Dark-type utility moves, or the load of coverage options the likes of Mega Slowbro and Mega Gyarados can suddenly get nuked by.

There's a message I'm trying to convey in all of this, but I'm honestly not sure I made it understandable enough, so I'm cutting right to the chase here:

If Mega Audino falls off, all of Wonder Guard falls off. There is no specific way for Mega Audino alone to fall off as the very moves that target Mega Audino are the same moves that target all Wonder Guard Pokémon and no Wonder Guard Pokémon can be consistently relied upon to fight back against those moves without struggling due to brute coverage. Major non-Wonder Guard walls such as Zygarde-Complete, Mega Steelix, Doublade, and perhaps even Fur Coat Mega Slowbro are better at dealing with Photon Geyser, Sunsteel Strike, and their Z-Move counterparts than any Wonder Guard Pokémon is. Alongside this, Innards Out has shown to be a suitable replacement for Wonder Guard when given to Chansey or Blissey, making teams not need a Wonder Guard Pokémon in some cases. The best Wonder Guard Pokémon in this metagame should primarily focus on walling Moongeist Beam and to a more limited degree, special Photon Geyser. They should also focus on preventing their team from losing to OHKO moves as these moves hit everything except for Wonder Guard and Sturdy Pokémon. Walling these moves is their primary job and what they do best in the metagame. That being said, if you are running a Wonder Guard at all, it is usually best to run two Wonder Guard Pokémon. The dual-Wonder Guard archetype remains dominant enough in the metagame to still place Wonder Guard itself in S rank.

Tl;dr: The best moves that cause Mega Audino to fall off affect  every Wonder Guard simultaneously, making things worse for every Wonder Guard if more Pokémon run stronger moves to fight off Mega Audino.

Now because Mega Audino falling off cannot be done without Wonder Guard falling off as a whole imo, I see Mega Audino as a pure reflection of Wonder Guard itself in the Gen 7 Pure Hackmons metagame. This isn't something any other Pokémon could achieve so here's a quote I have prepped up for this:

"Mega Audino is the health of Wonder Guard. The weaker Mega Audino is, the weaker Wonder Guard is in the metagame."

but then you also have this quote from dramlamb
"Wonder Guard is the health of Hackmons. The weaker Wonder Guard is, the less competitive the metagame." -dramlamb

So you know what this means?

"Mega Audino is the health of Hackmons. The weaker Mega Audino is, the less competitive the metagame." -Ransei

This logic only applies to Gen 7 Pure Hackmons specifically and it's not exclusively tied to Mega Audino, but also some of the metagame's other great defensive units such as Chansey, Blissey, Zygarde-Complete, Doublade, and more. This exclusively ties to Mega Audino under Wonder Guard but multiple Pokémon outside Wonder Guard also glue this metagame together.

Despite Mega Audino being the health of Wonder Guard and a reflection of it, I can justify Mega Audino being on A+ as no Wonder Guard in this metagame is perfect. Mega Audino is still in need of partners to take on its weaknesses oftentimes and there are plenty enough Wonder Guard cores you could get away with without having Mega Audino involved. Mega Audino isn't extremely dominant in the metagame, which would otherwise consistently justify an "S" rank, but Wonder Guard as a presence is extremely dominant through the use of 2 per standard team in order to counteract No Guard.

I still agree with this.
Offensive sets have fallen off but are still decent for improofing on HO. Defensive sets are still pretty good imo.
idk i think i've only used cursed sets on this
One of the most overrated WGs for me, imo Fissure weakness (Fake Balloon is pretty much useless since many Fissure mons run Sunsteel or Moongeist) and mediocre physical bulk is crippling enough for it to drop a subrank or two.
idk
idk i've barely used it but good phyical wall ig
Offensive sets are super fake but defensive sets are good, mainly because Moongeisters often drop Aura Sphere/Secret Sword for coverage for MAud/Melo/Muk/maybe some other stuff I missed
Idk why but this feels like an absolute godsend on ladder, but not in high level play so it can probably stay where it is.
idk i haven't used non-meme sets since before most people agreed it fell off
Imo it hasn't really got any worse, but it kinda fell off because of how good other sets are.
Mostly worse Melo, idk where I would rank it though.
Arceus but trades special bulk for being able to pass Wishes, slightly slower pivoting (still not that slow) and a stat that barely matters. Wishpassing is the only reason I would keep this ranked.
idrk i think i only used it on that same team with the meme hoopa
Overrated, other abilites are better.
idk it's decent ig but i think i only used it on that no guard melo team
^ (except I haven't used it on a team with funni defensive mon and it can run offensive sets)
i think i only used it on that fullpass team but with delibird over monke because christmas so idrk but it's decent ig
When has anyone used this ever? Still can probably stay ranked though.
idk i think i've never used this
^
I used to think offensive sets were fake but I don't think that any more, and defensive sets are underrated. Can probably move up a subrank or two.
Arceus but frailer and Slaking but can't Wishpass. Shouldn't be ranked imo.
idk
I've used this like once and it's not great but still has a niche.
idk
psychic sweeper idk about #4
Has anyone ever used this outside of Cats and Rabbits? Idk why this is still ranked.
idk but it's weak to sheer cold so shouldn't be higher
Why is this ranked
I'm gonna get cancelled for talking about this
beats some mmx sets ig? fissure weakness sucks for a defensive wg though

Aggron with different typing ig? Idrk why this is ranked

I don't really have many opinions on this, still the best offensive mon though.
I don't really have many opinions on this, still the best defensive mon though.
Found this a bit fraudulent for quite a while as it hates Knock Off and walls basically zero special attackers, can probably drop a subrank or two.
Thank you, Akira, for discovering a set my whole RMT completely loses to. Anyway, it's very good, versatile and probably the best special attacker.
Fell off but idk whether I would drop it or not.
2nd best Huge Power, possibly the best No Guard, and great HO support. This is not biased.
Great Huge Power, Harvest sets destroy unprepared teams, and is the mascot of the best PHPL team (maybe biased).
probably drop it a subrank idk
There are three types of people in this world: those who think it should be ranked close to Steelix, those who think it should be ranked much lower, and those who don't know. I am the third type.
Haven't seen this very much in a while, it can probably drop.
The bunny has been receiving the same hate Deo used to, and I have thought it's around B+ for a while, but it's still the best standard No Guard, and maybe some other sets could work. I also can't really talk about it badly since I am in the bunny cult.
Does this really have a main set? (ok maybe protean.) Anyway, it's very versatile and can probably get away with running random stuff nobody has used before.
Mostly worse Slaking but still has a niche, can probably stay where it is on the VR.
idk
Kinda fraudulent. Solganium Z is the only reason to run it over Kartana (unless you're running a non-Huge Power set), and you'd probably rather run Solgaleo for better bulk and outspeeding Modest Scarf MGar at +2. Some other sets are still usable though.
idk i've barely used it but good phyical wall ig
Kartana but trades power, speed and Grass for bulk, not being weak to Fighting, having STAB Photon (which barely matters tbh) and being able to run Solganium Z. Pretty good.
That one Prankster set beats my RMT but I've barely seen or used it, and idk what else it really does.
Can probably raise a subrank imo, Psypam is MU fishy but it's still pretty good on non-Psyspam HO.
idk i haven't used this for ages
Innards is trash but Harvest is pretty good, idk if it should stay in B+ though.
I'm not gonna talk about Innards because i haven't used it much ~~and Ransei will cancel me~~ but it's decent at running other sets that bluff Innards.
Pretty much NDM but trades Solganium Z for outspeeding Scarf MGar at +2. Can probably drop a subrank or two.
STag has fallen off a bit but Mold and Triage are ok-ish so it can probably stay where it is.

Probably the main thing I have a decent chance of getting cancelled for, so I'm making this a button.

Such a fraud. Its 26% winrate in PHPL is a bit like Solgaleo in HPL: people using terrible sets. Offensive sets are either worse MGyara/Ashgren (which still aren't great), or deal zero damage and are just bad. Some defensive and Magic Guard support sets are decent though, so it can still stay above C rank.

Best Psyspam lead but Psyspam is MU fishy and has fallen off, and there's basically no reason to run it over MMY/Deo-A if you're not Psysurge, so it can probably stay where it is.
The fact it has to run Band to OHKO MMX is a bit problematic, but at least your opponent can't use Innards to KO it if you click your STAB.
No Guard only really works as a HO lead and is otherwise bad, but other sets like Comatose and Mold Breaker are good enough for it to stay where it is imo.
Basically MMX but worse in every way, except it gets STAB FImp which is great for revenge killing with Huge Power, and STag is probably usable. Sadly the iconic PBond Heracross sucks.
Basically a slightly stronger Lunala if you don't want to run or bluff Innards, but it has the same problems as NDM. Idk where I would rank this.
Basically a worse MMX that can run Ultranecrozium Z. STag and Harvest are probably usable though.
I think only Ransei and Beast Mode Pikachu has really used this (I did once but it wasn't the best team, and I didn't use it very much), so idrk how good this is.
MHera but trades power and bulk for lots of speed (and the ability to run mixed sets ig). Can probably rise.
I haven't seen this for so long, and I don't really know how good it is since it only really works on stall, which I never use.
Basically HarvSlak but trades power and being able to safely KO some Innards mons for special bulk and Type: Null but fast and can run a different item. Normalise exists too. I have barely seen or used this though.
Imo it's best on HO/Offense as a reliable No Guard answer/improof, but it's pretty bad if your opponent doesn't have a standard No Guard or Imp.
Slower and weaker MMY with Fairy STAB ig? I haven't seen this very much, but it's still probably decent.
Another fraud, it barely does its job a lot of the time and its typing is bad for an Innards. There aren't many cases where you would rather run this over a blob.
i'm getting tired even though it's 11am so i'm gonna start saying idk for ones idk about again
what does this guy do
Probably better than MBane because it can hit hard without having to run Band, and while Shadow Sneak doesn't OHKO MMX, Fake Out can solve this issue.
I used to praise No Guard Lizard, and STag sets exist, but sadly both seem to have been overhyped.
idk
idk
idk
idk
mold is really funny but other than that, idk
idk

Other thoughts:
These 3 were used quite a bit in PHPL and other people have explained why they should be ranked. I will not explain because I'm getting tired.
I think this can probably be ranked, it's kinda like Deo-S but it has decent bulk and defensive typing, and STAB Zap Cannon with decentish SpA for No Guard.
i think this is my 4th time making a forum post saying it's nothing more than a noobtrap and will never be viable in any way and should be blacklisted even though it "tEcHnIcAlLy HaS a TiNy NiChE"

 

[Guysmash]

idk

If you don’t know just read my thousand posts about this dude and you will understand it’s underrated af (or just use it in a proper team)

 

[aidan amoongus]

MMY Setpedia (personal)​

Hello, I'm a person who doesn't use MMY a lot. Mostly its because I have no idea what ability to run, so I made this compilation of MMY sets that I've seen. If you have any advice, feel free to let me know.

Here it is: https://pokepast.es/1104ed94cc082991

Edit 1: to those of you receiving a notification that i posted something in the old gens thread i am terribly sorry i posted this there by accident

 

[Guysmash]

MMY Setpedia (personal)​

Hello, I'm a person who doesn't use MMY a lot. Mostly its because I have no idea what ability to run, so I made this compilation of MMY sets that I've seen. If you have any advice, feel free to let me know.

Here it is: https://pokepast.es/f02f1cb8ca0474f4

Edit 1: to those of you receiving a notification that i posted something in the old gens thread i am terribly sorry i posted this there by accident

Imo for the offensive Innards (even if I've never seen the set) you could set clanging scales (the dragon offensive move) to hit Zyg and lower MMY’s Def
For the MGuard set, it looks correct but imo DeoA is better because it can run physical photon to kill Innards blob and losing only 1 stat is SpA

 

[aidan amoongus]

Imo for the offensive Innards (even if I've never seen the set) you could set clanging scales (the dragon offensive move) to hit Zyg and lower MMY’s Def
For the MGuard set, it looks correct but imo DeoA is better because it can run physical photon to kill Innards blob and losing only 1 stat is SpA

Deoxys-Attack is another user for Magic Guard, I'm aware, yet IMO, MMY's better bulk makes it more outstanding

also in order for me not to shitpost for like 10 times, I'll put edits in my original post

 

[Guysmash]

Deoxys-Attack is another user for Magic Guard, I'm aware, yet IMO, MMY's better bulk makes it more outstanding

The use of Sash + MGuard make me think the bulk is almost useless, they are weak to FImp and SNeak the most used priorities outside of Ice Shard

EDIT : I did not see it was LO, then MMY might be better

 

[aidan amoongus]

I ended up scrapping my personal VR, mainly because I lost my draft after writing about 15 mons, which was very demotivating. So instead, I'm just gonna share my opinions on every mon on the VR and some other thoughts.

Still the GOAT of PH. Could maybe be in S+ but I don't want to start an argument this early on.
Basically Chansey but a bit worse. If you're running Imp and you're not Eviolite it doesn't really matter which blob you choose, and on HO teams with no other improofing Blissey is a better Innards. Otherwise use Chansey.
(WG) Balance has definitely fallen off, but WG should still stay in S imo.

Wonder Guard Viability Rankings

I still agree with this.
Offensive sets have fallen off but are still decent for improofing on HO. Defensive sets are still pretty good imo.
idk i think i've only used cursed sets on this
One of the most overrated WGs for me, imo Fissure weakness (Fake Balloon is pretty much useless since many Fissure mons run Sunsteel or Moongeist) and mediocre physical bulk is crippling enough for it to drop a subrank or two.
idk
idk i've barely used it but good phyical wall ig
Offensive sets are super fake but defensive sets are good, mainly because Moongeisters often drop Aura Sphere/Secret Sword for coverage for MAud/Melo/Muk/maybe some other stuff I missed
Idk why but this feels like an absolute godsend on ladder, but not in high level play so it can probably stay where it is.
idk i haven't used non-meme sets since before most people agreed it fell off
Imo it hasn't really got any worse, but it kinda fell off because of how good other sets are.
Mostly worse Melo, idk where I would rank it though.
Arceus but trades special bulk for being able to pass Wishes, slightly slower pivoting (still not that slow) and a stat that barely matters. Wishpassing is the only reason I would keep this ranked.
idrk i think i only used it on that same team with the meme hoopa
Overrated, other abilites are better.
idk it's decent ig but i think i only used it on that no guard melo team
^ (except I haven't used it on a team with funni defensive mon and it can run offensive sets)
i think i only used it on that fullpass team but with delibird over monke because christmas so idrk but it's decent ig
When has anyone used this ever? Still can probably stay ranked though.
idk i think i've never used this
^
I used to think offensive sets were fake but I don't think that any more, and defensive sets are underrated. Can probably move up a subrank or two.
Arceus but frailer and Slaking but can't Wishpass. Shouldn't be ranked imo.
idk
I've used this like once and it's not great but still has a niche.
idk
psychic sweeper idk about #4
Has anyone ever used this outside of Cats and Rabbits? Idk why this is still ranked.
idk but it's weak to sheer cold so shouldn't be higher
Why is this ranked
I'm gonna get cancelled for talking about this
beats some mmx sets ig? fissure weakness sucks for a defensive wg though

View attachment 733150
Aggron with different typing ig? Idrk why this is ranked

I don't really have many opinions on this, still the best offensive mon though.
I don't really have many opinions on this, still the best defensive mon though.
Found this a bit fraudulent for quite a while as it hates Knock Off and walls basically zero special attackers, can probably drop a subrank or two.
Thank you, Akira, for discovering a set my whole RMT completely loses to. Anyway, it's very good, versatile and probably the best special attacker.
Fell off but idk whether I would drop it or not.
2nd best Huge Power, possibly the best No Guard, and great HO support. This is not biased.
Great Huge Power, Harvest sets destroy unprepared teams, and is the mascot of the best PHPL team (maybe biased).
probably drop it a subrank idk
There are three types of people in this world: those who think it should be ranked close to Steelix, those who think it should be ranked much lower, and those who don't know. I am the third type.
Haven't seen this very much in a while, it can probably drop.
The bunny has been receiving the same hate Deo used to, and I have thought it's around B+ for a while, but it's still the best standard No Guard, and maybe some other sets could work. I also can't really talk about it badly since I am in the bunny cult.
Does this really have a main set? (ok maybe protean.) Anyway, it's very versatile and can probably get away with running random stuff nobody has used before.
Mostly worse Slaking but still has a niche, can probably stay where it is on the VR.
idk
Kinda fraudulent. Solganium Z is the only reason to run it over Kartana (unless you're running a non-Huge Power set), and you'd probably rather run Solgaleo for better bulk and outspeeding Modest Scarf MGar at +2. Some other sets are still usable though.
idk i've barely used it but good phyical wall ig
Kartana but trades power, speed and Grass for bulk, not being weak to Fighting, having STAB Photon (which barely matters tbh) and being able to run Solganium Z. Pretty good.
That one Prankster set beats my RMT but I've barely seen or used it, and idk what else it really does.
Can probably raise a subrank imo, Psypam is MU fishy but it's still pretty good on non-Psyspam HO.
idk i haven't used this for ages
Innards is trash but Harvest is pretty good, idk if it should stay in B+ though.
I'm not gonna talk about Innards because i haven't used it much ~~and Ransei will cancel me~~ but it's decent at running other sets that bluff Innards.
Pretty much NDM but trades Solganium Z for outspeeding Scarf MGar at +2. Can probably drop a subrank or two.
STag has fallen off a bit but Mold and Triage are ok-ish so it can probably stay where it is.

Probably the main thing I have a decent chance of getting cancelled for, so I'm making this a button.

Such a fraud. Its 26% winrate in PHPL is a bit like Solgaleo in HPL: people using terrible sets. Offensive sets are either worse MGyara/Ashgren (which still aren't great), or deal zero damage and are just bad. Some defensive and Magic Guard support sets are decent though, so it can still stay above C rank.

Best Psyspam lead but Psyspam is MU fishy and has fallen off, and there's basically no reason to run it over MMY/Deo-A if you're not Psysurge, so it can probably stay where it is.
The fact it has to run Band to OHKO MMX is a bit problematic, but at least your opponent can't use Innards to KO it if you click your STAB.
No Guard only really works as a HO lead and is otherwise bad, but other sets like Comatose and Mold Breaker are good enough for it to stay where it is imo.
Basically MMX but worse in every way, except it gets STAB FImp which is great for revenge killing with Huge Power, and STag is probably usable. Sadly the iconic PBond Heracross sucks.
Basically a slightly stronger Lunala if you don't want to run or bluff Innards, but it has the same problems as NDM. Idk where I would rank this.
Basically a worse MMX that can run Ultranecrozium Z. STag and Harvest are probably usable though.
I think only Ransei and Beast Mode Pikachu has really used this (I did once but it wasn't the best team, and I didn't use it very much), so idrk how good this is.
MHera but trades power and bulk for lots of speed (and the ability to run mixed sets ig). Can probably rise.
I haven't seen this for so long, and I don't really know how good it is since it only really works on stall, which I never use.
Basically HarvSlak but trades power and being able to safely KO some Innards mons for special bulk and Type: Null but fast and can run a different item. Normalise exists too. I have barely seen or used this though.
Imo it's best on HO/Offense as a reliable No Guard answer/improof, but it's pretty bad if your opponent doesn't have a standard No Guard or Imp.
Slower and weaker MMY with Fairy STAB ig? I haven't seen this very much, but it's still probably decent.
Another fraud, it barely does its job a lot of the time and its typing is bad for an Innards. There aren't many cases where you would rather run this over a blob.
i'm getting tired even though it's 11am so i'm gonna start saying idk for ones idk about again
what does this guy do
Probably better than MBane because it can hit hard without having to run Band, and while Shadow Sneak doesn't OHKO MMX, Fake Out can solve this issue.
I used to praise No Guard Lizard, and STag sets exist, but sadly both seem to have been overhyped.
idk
idk
idk
idk
mold is really funny but other than that, idk
idk

Other thoughts:
These 3 were used quite a bit in PHPL and other people have explained why they should be ranked. I will not explain because I'm getting tired.
I think this can probably be ranked, it's kinda like Deo-S but it has decent bulk and defensive typing, and STAB Zap Cannon with decentish SpA for No Guard.
i think this is my 4th time making a forum post saying it's nothing more than a noobtrap and will never be viable in any way and should be blacklisted even though it "tEcHnIcAlLy HaS a TiNy NiChE"

On Yveltal I don’t really agree with tbh
You say people use bad sets, but it that’s really on them not the Mon

Just because it has a low win rate in PHPL doesn’t mean it’s bad, and it has 3 main sets which are really good-Huge Power, Magic Bounce, and Magic Guard.

For Huge Power, just go back to the AV Cosmoem post, they did a really good job at explaining it.

Yveltal also is a really good bouncer with STAB Knock and has great bulk. It runs the standard moves like Spectral, Twineedle, Anchor Shot too and is just a good Bouncer.

Yveltal as a Magic Guard Mon is also really good. Magic Guard is really good for Yveltal negating its weakness from rocks. It also lets Yveltal MG Pursuit some innards mons, and it can even run Mind Blown to get cheeky KOs on mons like Ferro and Scizor.

All in all, Yveltal deserves more credit than you’re giving, and personally I think it’s A or B tier material.

 

[Guysmash]

fissure weakness is over exagerated tbh. if fissure didn't exist it's the best wg in the game and would be better then maud, fissure doesn't come up too often and in those mu's you just have to sack innards to the fissure mon.

Ppl are running classic NGuard with Fissure instead if Sheer Cold to kill that dude, most special NGuards sweepers tend to use Fissure to (actually physical too but except for MMX they just have sunstee). Imo, good players will more often run Fissure than Sheer Cold. If you fight a NGuard user it’s either fake stall or balance/offense. In these case sacrificing your Innards could you let very weak against a HP sweeper and losing AMuk to revenge kill could make you really weak against a special attacker. Imo you overestimate AMuk.

not a "good" physical wall but still one if the best wgs lol. sunsteel resist, very slow pivot, best pdon answer and provides more room to play around mmx so i run it on pretty much all of my balance/stalls without a bug weak wg like melo (or if im running fc).

Even if it has a great bulk I don’t understand why ppl want to run it WG. Most of attacks neutral against it just get weakened by FCoat (Like FakeSpeed) and it has too many resistances/weaknesses to be a great WG user. Just make it FCoat to tank better or Prank to check most PDon sets.

why are people dropping it and why has it fell off? it is slow which is bad vs offense sure but it's huge power, mold breaker and mgaurd sets run over bulkier teams and all require very specific answers, and it's the best stag user so i still can't see how ppl think it could drop.

Yep I agree, just why would PDon be the best STag user ? Ig it’s becasue VCreate but that’s all. Imo MRay is as good if not better : it gets both offense stats 180 just like PDon but with SpA. It gets SoulBlaze to nuke Zyg (most uses Goggles) which PDon can't with Snuggle :
252+ SpA Rayquaza-Mega Clangorous Soulblaze vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 632-746 (99.3 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zygarde-Complete: 402-474 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(This is +SpD zyg even if most are +Def, just to show how MRay is better for this)
Moreover MRay got better Spe which allows to outspeed DoeS with +Spe Nature.
I understand that VCreate STAB is very good but if it’s the only reason, MRay might be better.

i've never been in a situation when team building where i wanted to use its fakespeed set, BUT getting to run shell smash/geist/sunsteel/fairy with priority is pretty cracked and can probably justify A-.

I do think it’s good but if you wan’t Boomburst to deal real huge damage you can’t run shell smash/moldy moves.
I think Slak is just better with its fakespeed set. It can use HP AND EEvoboost because it has a good bulk (contrary to MDiancie which is also ×4 weak to the best offensive move).

fake innards

Uhh, I'm too tired to answer it rn but I think I'll post something (in 1-2 weeks) why is Exca so underrated and why it should be at least in B-/B

 

[Eyeos]

Muk is a stupid moron ​

Muk has recently been mentioned as the best wg in the game, in my opinion this is false. Muk is a deeply flawed pokemon and should not be 1st in any way. I will not be speaking of muk fissure weakness mostly because I don’t think that’s its biggest problem. I think muk has way worse issues than being fissure weak. I have already spoken on muk really bad item selections but it’s worth repeating here.

Muk will always lose to several different things that other moon or special photon checks won’t simply because of how muk and its items are all essential but u can only ever have 1. Firstly you need a shed shell as the most common shadow tag pokemon run thousands arrows pretty much all the time and other stag mons also run thousand arrows quite a lot. Secondly you need safety goggles because without them almost any moon user with spore can and probably will break your muk if you choose to go without them. Thirdly you need a z crystal because trick is unbelievably common and can often force muk to choose between killing what’s in front of them or healing since muk takes a lot of chip throughout the game (we will get to this later so remember that). Fourthly you probably want air balloon to not instantly lose to firssure but even then balloon is still pretty bad fissure anti measure.


But that’s not muk biggest weakness. Muk biggest weakness is that it’s a really bad moon check. Muk as a moon check is really weak to rocks since after just 2 ticks or rock damage it starts dying to gengar +2 252 SpA Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk-Alola: 144-169 (34.7 - 40.8%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes. This rocks weakness means that if you switch into rocks 1 time and then have to check gengar but rocks aren’t taken care of then you will just lose half of the time. And then there’s parental bond gengar who is the most common ability on gengar which 2 hits u at +2 99.7% of the time with rocks up+2 252 SpA Parental Bond Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk-Alola: 179-211 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. There’s also crits which can help gengar break a muk without parental bond crits can be survived sometimes depending on the roll but with parental bond you don’t stand a chance so any parental bond gengar (gengars most common ability) has about 10-15% chance (it’s hard to calc the second parental bond damage but ik it’s at least 10%) to just lose your muk since most setup gengar run sash. I know some responses already like how someone is going to say to just run a second moon check to check moon better, but if your moon check needs to be paired with a second, better, moon check then your moon check is pretty bad. There’s also the response that earth power on gengar is pretty nitch which I agree with. That is why you shouldn’t run earth power to beat muk instead you should run a sleep move (spore or lovely kiss) because a sleeping muk can’t beat a setup gengar so long as it doesn't only get turn 1 wake ups. Muk will die to sleep so why would u run earth power when instead u can run sleep which is way more versatile and can beat muk, unless u run Lum berry muk (which is pretty bad since you’re not using any of the other, better items that you already really want) u will lose to lovely kiss gengar.


I wasn’t able to fit this anywhere but no guard is also a problem since it can sleep you and can force rock chip it makes you a worse gengar check even if it’s not running fissure so yea keep that in mind. Anyway muk is still A tier cus it does still work decently well as a gengar check but it’s not top 1.

I’d like to nominate as our new top 1 since it checks sunsteel and sunsteel is a steel move so hits fairy super effectively which is very cool.

 

[Guysmash]

like ng mmy, ng mgar

I see what you mean, and I kinda agree but how does MMY/MGar kills

targeting defensive mons with stag is generally inconsistent unless you are running gimmicky item removal, and outside of ladder usage stats which I wouldn’t say is very reliable you can’t just say “most zygods run goggles” especially when there is 2 items it’s realistically should be running (shed and goggles) so the dragon stab isn’t a massive draw. stab v create is very good for offensive neutral targets even ohkoing mmy and offensive mons are obviously a lot less likely to run shed shell, and stab t arrows is nice for muk who is a defensive mon who actually can be consistently killed by stag as i’d argue it likes goggles more then zygod and balloon is also quite common (I don’t think balloon is good but u can’t ignore that other people use it). ik you didn’t bring up the flying stab but honestly I’d say pdon is better at killing mmx then mray regardless bc mray dies to shard, and removing mmx is one of the main reasons I’d run stag.

Ig your right, I don’t really use STag much so idk. It may be player’s preferences.

you don’t want to run boomburst on a sweeper set at all, you would want shell smash/e speed/sunsteel/mgeist which beats everything except bisharp, ho-ho and pogre whilst having priority. I did say slak is better with fake speed but I do think diancies sweeper set is better considering sweeper slak usually has to choose between hitting steels or mbro.

I thought you were talking about fakespeed, my bad. For sweeper MDiancie could be better

 

[ZeldaFan1]

...Guess who it is. SpamtonZZZSpamton here again, here with another...
SAMPLE SUBMISSION
So, after my last two tries of doing this, both ending in failure, I went back to the drawing board. My old team had a couple major issues. It got kinda rocked by Innards Out, and some WG cores also fucked with it, mainly M-Slowbro and MAud. So, I looked for a cure, a correction to this flaw. And, within the core of the light, I found it.


This lad.

So, if you have been paying attention to the chat board, you will already know most of my team. It's the STag PDon one. Anyway, I have talked to death 5 out of 6 members of this team, so I'm just gonna copy what I said before.

PRIMAL GROUDON

The STag mon that I have believed in for my entire time playing PH, STag PDon is kinda a monster. Thousand Arrows is your big dumb stab move that kills Muk-A, Solgaleo, and others. V-Create is for when the steels are too bulky for Thousand Arrows, or are neutral to it. Examples like Kartana, Celesteela, and MSteelix come to mind. Let's Snuggle Forever removes MMX, MRay, and most things weak to Fairy (Don't use it into Zygarde, it doesn't work). SSS is almost only for MAud, as it has a 50% chance to OHKO if they are a +Def nature, and a 100% chance if they are any other nature. It also always kills after any chip, like rocks or whatnot. Pretty cool.

MEGA AUDINO

The dumb WG wall. This MAud has nothing special over any other MAud. Rocks because I like to win, Defog because I don't like hazard stack, Recovery because duh, and U turn to ensure it does not die instantly to STag taunt (Goddamn it Eyeos). U turn also lets it donk Deo-A down to sash, and if my calcs are correct, it also does not kill -Def Chansey without a crit. Safety Goggles because fuck Spore. Neat, I guess.

NECROZMA DAWN WINGS

The second WG of the team, and the only Special Attacker as well. Moongeist because duh, Bug Buzz because NtotheN mentioned Melo being an issue, and I don't like Melo, Ice Beam to not be sat on by Zygarde, and Shell Smash because big number go burr. Z Crystal to nuke POgre, MSteelix, and any random Mon you want to ensure dies.

MEGA AGGRON

Ok I did not expect to be putting this Mon here, but it actually does the job well enough. From what I have seen, the meta is becoming more and more hostile to Zygarde. I refuse to lose to Extreme Evoboost Ice Shard again, so I needed to find a alternative to Zygarde. The most obvious answer is MSteelix, but it is only neutral to Ice, and the ground type does not help it that much on this team. So, Mega Aggron was the next best choice. Resists Photon and Ice Shard, as well as Sunsteel. The moveset is a standard Zygarde moveset, with Reflect over Will o Wisp because I have missed to many damn 85% and I refuse to lose to a MMX because of a Will o Miss again. I won't do it. Haze because it's prankster, Shore Up because duh, and Baton Pass to switch out without being blocked by Dark types. Now, honestly, because of Baton Pass, there is an argument for running Cotton Guard over Reflect, as it boost defense higher and is passed by Baton Pass. I have not tried to use it, but it might actually be good, NGL. Safety Goggles because Spore is cringe and lame.

REGIGIGAS

The [BIG SHOT!] Regigigas is actually better then Slaking on this team because I have a lot of physical bulk, but not much special bulk, so Gigas being better in that department is actually a advantage over Slaking. Fake out Extreme Speed to kill Deo-A, MLopunny, and anything not resistant to Steel. Spectral Thief to ensure that mons can't just try and press Shell Smash in front of it, and Let's Snuggle Forever to OHKO Zygarde. Lum to stop burns and sleep. Honestly, this mon always seems to get two kills, it is very neat and cool. Thank you Regigigas, very cool.

So, it's Kartana time!

GA-GA AND DIE (Kartana) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Sunsteel Strike
- Wood Hammer
- Flare Blitz
- Shell Smash

This thing patches up the major issues of this team: being the weakness to some WG cores, and the weakness to Innards Out. Sunsteel Strike for STAB reasons, Wood Hammer OHKOs Slowbro and Ash-Greninja, Flare Blitz kills the Steels, and Shell Smash is Shell Smash. Magic Guard + Focus Sash means that it can almost always improof itself, which is good because the only issue with this Kartana is that it kinda runs over the team if it isn't improofed. However, NDW can try and handle it for a bit, so it isn't completely doomed if it loses to a second Imposter. This thing is kinda just good.

So, the third generation of this team. I am still pursuing the same goal, of making this squad into a sample team. So, is this enough? Let's find out, I guess.

Oh yeah the team sheet. You kinda need that. https://pokepast.es/61618173978538e6.

So, that's it...wait no. I still need to make a Haiku! I did it last time, might as well do it here as well.

Slicing away Strings.
Reaching towards the Heavens.
I will have Freedom.

 

[Electra102]

Some interesting findings in results of PHPL​

I decided to run my own statistic on the replay data from PHPL, my statistic being what I call “weighted success” (name subject to change). I’ve noticed that with winrates, as the number of uses for a mon increases, the winrate tends to approach 50%. I came up with weighted success to “solve” this problem- with weighted success, you use the same formula as winrate (wins / uses), but you square root the uses before using it to divide wins. The idea behind this method is that as the number of uses increases, how much the number of uses influences the weighted success decreases. Previous testing has shown that this method could be reliable- when I tested it against the data from ORAS Pure Hackmons in HPL, Pokemon you would expect to be doing the best, such as Giratina and Rayquaza-Mega, were now at the top.

I decided to take it a step further for USUM Pure Hackmons in PHPL- I made a VR based on the weighted success. Viability Ranking placements was based on a points system- the mons with the highest count of points went into S. Then, the Pokemon that had the next two highest point counts went into S-. From A+ and onward, only the highest remaining point groups were used when determining the tier (the exception to this was A-, which used two point groups). Points were determined by flooring the result of the weighted success times four. If two or more Pokemon share the same number of points, they would, naturally, be ranked together, but the placement within subtiers is based on the actual weighted success. For example, Diancie-Mega and Yveltal both had four points (and were placed into C+), but Diancie-Mega had a weighted success of 1.060660172 while Yveltal had a weighted success of 1.147078669, so Yveltal was ranked higher within C+ than Diancie-Mega.

To better explain what I mean by all of this, I’ll show some of the raw numbers. For S, only the highest group of points would be included. This group was Pokemon with a point count of 16, which included Chansey and Mewtwo-Mega-X. For S-, the next two highest point groups were used, which were 14 (Kartana) and 12 (Blissey). The next highest point group was used for A+, which included 11 points, which included Zygarde-Complete, Gengar-Mega, Slowbro-Mega, and Slaking. Next highest point group is used for A, so A contains the 10-pointers Greninja-Ash, Gyarados-Mega, Mewtwo-Mega-Y, and Audino-Mega. Due to the next two point groups being tiny (one had 9 points and two had 8 points), A- used two point groups, which included Pheromosa (9 points), Groudon-Primal (8 points), and Rayquaza-Mega (8 points). B+ and onward only used one point group for each subtier, so B+ gets the seven-pointers (Sableye-Mega and Lunala), B gets the six-pointers (Doublade, Hoopa-Unbound, Meloetta, Ho-Oh, Muk-Alola, and Solgaleo), B- gets the five-pointers (Arceus, Excadrill, Heatran, and Scizor-Mega), and so forth. The final rank, D, contains the Pokemon that did not receive any points.

Provided below is the actual Viability Ranking produced.
​

The VR

S Rank
S (16 points)
Chansey
Mewtwo-Mega-X

S- (14 + 12 points)
Kartana
Blissey

A Rank (11 points)
A+
Zygarde-Complete
Gengar-Mega
Slowbro-Mega
Slaking

A (10 points)
Greninja-Ash
Gyarados-Mega
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
Audino-Mega

A- (9 + 8 points)
Pheromosa
Groudon-Primal
Rayquaza-Mega

B Rank
B+ (7 points)
Sableye-Mega
Lunala

B (6 points)
Doublade
Hoopa-Unbound
Meloetta
Ho-Oh
Muk-Alola
Solgaleo

B- (5 points)
Arceus
Excadrill
Heatran
Scizor-Mega

C Rank
C+ (4 points)
Steelix-Mega
Regigigas
Yveltal
Diancie-Mega
Kyurem-White
Ferrothorn
Dialga
Darmanitan-Zen
Marshadow
Landorus-Therian
Aerodactyl-Mega
Escavalier
Stakataka
Magearna

C (3 points)
Lopunny-Mega
Kyogre-Primal
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Deoxys-Attack

C- (2 points)
Celesteela
Gardevoir-Mega
Guzzlord
Metagross-Mega
Kyurem-Black
Heracross-Mega
Giratina-Origin
Marowak-Alola
Deoxys-Speed

D Rank (0 points- no Pokemon achieved only 1 point)
Necrozma-Ultra
Beedrill-Mega
Zeraora
Articuno
Swampert-Mega
Xerneas
Aggron-Mega
Froslass
Oranguru
Incineroar
Tyranitar-Mega

​

​

Here is the link to the spreadsheet I used, in case you are interested. It contains the actual weighted success values of every Pokemon.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PzN3nzvq3VETkVvnnyiqHrG1dEnVvqYQokM3RlSLfCU/edit?usp=sharing

What does all of this mean?​

Assuming my statistic is reliable, we can get some rather interesting information about how well something is actually doing, without relying on the flawed winrate statistic.

First off, Slowbro-Mega appears to have been more successful in PHPL than Audino-Mega. They are separated by an entire subtier, with Audino-Mega being only about 89.44% as successful as Slowbro-Mega. However, keep in mind that this counts non-Wonder Guard variants of both Pokemon, so even if this statistic is reliable, without further information we cannot determine if Wonder Guard Slowbro-Mega has actually been doing better than Wonder Guard Audino-Mega. I’ll (at some point) probably look through replays and see if I can find any non-Wonder Guard sets for either, but for now I’m going to leave this observation be.

Pheromosa appears to have been rather successful in PHPL, with a rank of A- and a weighted success of 2.309401077. For comparison, it is ranked right above Groudon-Primal. As for why it is doing so well, I can speculate, but I can’t be certain. My guess is that Pheromosa can abuse how much Audino-Mega and Slowbro-Mega are relied upon, being able to freely pivot on Slowbro-Mega and being able to nail Audino-Mega with a decently strong Sunsteel Strike. It seems like Pheromosa is kind of the non-Wonder Guard USUM equivalent of ORAS’s Beedrill-Mega. In other words, it may have been doing so well because people weren’t preparing for it. I’ve also noticed over time (not just in PHPL) that Pheromosa is more commonly used by higher-skill players such as cscl and aerobee, so that may also be an influence on how well Pheromosa has appeared to have been doing.

Doublade has appeared to have fallen off, with a rank of B+, a far cry from its official Viability Ranking of A+. I think the reason why this is the case is obvious- people are preparing a lot more for it, with more Moongeist Beam users, Searing Shot on Mewtwo-Mega-X, and more. On a similar note, the most surprising rank to me is Steelix-Mega in C+ (rank on the official Viability Rankings is A+). Perhaps Steelix-Mega’s case is like that of Doublade- people are just preparing a lot more for it. It doesn’t like taking moves that also hit Doublade, such as Searing Shot on Mewtwo-Mega-X and Moongeist Beam, but I doubt that would entirely explain how far Steelix-Mega has fallen. It has a winrate of exactly 50%, but it was only used six times in the entire tournament, so perhaps this is just a quirk of how weighted success is calculated. If anyone else has any ideas, feel free to bring them up (but please don’t post a one-liner).

Closing​

I think that is enough analysis for now. If anyone has any thoughts they would like to share, feel free to do so. Just please don’t send a one-liner- try to have some more thought, care, and time put into your posts.

- electra​

 

[PenultimateToast]

sample submission, team by akira with a few changes by me

decretum by akira 153

team's surprisingly consistent into ladder, struggles a bit into the ladder deo-s set but if you can break its sash revenge killing with kart's easy, peaked around high 1500s on ladder, not doing an in depth rmt because i'm lazy, innards is innards, stag kart is cool (power whip could probably be replaced with smth else although that's up to you), arceus is neat, no guard mgar does some cool stuff but it could be replaced if you want, protean mmy is broken and pdon is a cool wg

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2351535918-pet15k2vr4bw9tm62v6m83b3l3pv71lpw win vs modified mmx spam sample
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2350951464 win vs eyeos
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2350982028 win vs ladder bullshit

 

[Guysmash]

I've promised it so here it is : a post about the pokemon that only I love.

EXCADRILL
​

Most people agree that it’s a C tier (the tier worse on the current VR) and here I won’t say it’s is exceptional and deserves A rankor whatever. Ik it’s mid but it should at the very least be B-

First of all I think was should check its typing (a good for an Innards user)

Resistances : Normal, Fairy, Steel, Psychic, Flying, Bug, Dragon, Rock (double)
Neutralities : Grass, Ice, Dark, Ghost
Weaknesses : Fire, Water, Fighting, Ground
Immunities : Poison, Electric

It might seems like a lot of resistances for a Innards user and yes... some are annoying. However who cares about resisting Sunsteel when you can use a Blob. I'm not telling you Exca is better than blob, if you need a generic innards user just use a blob ofc. Same for the psychic resistance : The Blob can take care of physical photons and for special... Neither Lunala nor Giratina origin is easily OHKO'd by it.

We don’t really care about other resistances except the ×4 for rocks, making exca a consistent innards.

The really interesting things are its weaknesses :
- Fire and fighting allows you to die for super effective moves against 2 top tier Kartana and Slaking. This is really cool to protect them and punish the opponent. They won’t be able to threat Kart/Slak again since yk... they're dead.
- Water is really cool because you can punish both POgre's Steam Eruption (Blobs struggle against it because of this very convenient damage calc : +2 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 294-346 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) and MBro's Scald which is annoying for non-WG physical mons (it deals good damage thanks to MBro STAB and SpA and 30% chance of burn).
- Finally the ground one is decent because you die to the over represent TArrows in the metagame and punish a greedy TWaves from a MSteel.

Exca has also good stats :
HP : 110 the main used, killing Mewtwos, Primal Don/Ogre, Kart, MGar....
Atk : 135 not enough to be really threatening after a Shell Smash even with great STABs (Sunsteel and TArrows). It deals decent damage to offensive mons tho.
Def : 60 low Def, really cool if you want to keep your blob for another threat
SpA : 50 who cares ?
SpD : 65 a bit too much but it still dies to important non-Super Effective attack and most super effective ones so that’s great (252+ SpA Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 0- SpD 0 IVs Excadrill: 427-504 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO MGeist is a clean guaranteed OHKO EH ! YOUR DUMB BLOB CAN’T DO THAT, CAN IT ?!)
Spe : 88 enough to outspeed anything without boost after a Shell Smash and without +Spe Nature so it’s pretty cool.

Finally, I only talked about briefly but Exca's STABs are great. Using Sunsteel is enough to kill MAud at +2 (+2 252+ Atk Excadrill Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 452-534 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
And TArrows is enough to kill PDon after Stealth Rocks (+2 252+ Atk Excadrill Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 374-444 (92.5 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Note : Those are only examples and other interesting calcs exist

---

---

Maybe, after this, you're still not convinced and I could understand.
But the real strength of Excadrill its it’s aptitude to carry its team. The only team I used Exca in brought me to #1 of ladder and it’s not exagerated to say that Exca carried the team. I used MSci, Kartana and Slak. MSci's only weakness being Fire Exca was lol. Exca dies do fire attacks including Searing Shot which Blobs don't, it also dies to most fighting attacks (the only one to which Blob do not is Aura Sphere ig) and Ground one. Being weak to both PDon STABs and having more HPs than this litteral god makes Exca an excellent counter to PDon without sacrificing your Blob.
I have also talked about its water weakness and (even if it was not really the case in my team) MBro can easily block and HO when cored with an annoying WG. A lot of MBro will have scald to deals cheap damage (mainly effective on Slak) and have a chance to burn. Switching in with Exca can save your mon from the burn and instantly pass an annoying wall.

If I needed to make a sort of conclusion I'd say that contrary to both Blobs Exca isn’t very splashable in a team but it can be a great support when in the right team.

---

---

And if you still not agree, remember when I said Heat was peak (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-pure-hackmons.3734057/post-10297299) and everyone told me it sacked ? Isn’t it really cool now ? Just trust me

 

[rightclicker]

here's a fun offense team that i got to #7 on ladder with
i couldve probably laddered to #1 but i kept running into fullpass (which is easy to beat but sucks to play against) and also i'm lazy
maybe i'll RMT this in the near future if i have the motivation to
not a sample submission tho i wouldnt mind wink wink nudge nudge

proof of peak

LIMIT BREAK

synopsis: use the power of setup to beat everything!!!! both mmy and slaking are immensely powerful if you can get them in, and the no guard mmy both works as a great lead or extra offensive pressure/mindgame. celesteela can work both as an ok wg and a cleaner-ish? main thing though is that it can lure steels in and send them to the shadow realm which is good for slaking. he has no recovery tho which is why gyarados is our main wg, improof, pursuiter, and innards is innards.

weaknessess: hazard removal is passive (which matters because we rely on innards being healthy and 2 sashes), pursuiting innards kills ur main wg (and hazard removal), reliance on innards for improofing can get ugly if you need to sack it or it gets pursuited

other options:
- another item > aguav on bliss
- shell smash > evoboost on slaking (put haze > fog on gyara and fog > pshot on bliss)
- ice beam > owing on steela (better zyg matchup in exchange for mmx matchup)
- photon > gastro on mmy (probably works but i havent tested)
- fissure/horn drill > sheer cold (???????????????)


shoutouts to AV Cosmoem and aerobee for helping me build this

 

[ItzEmanBoss]

Role Compendium

These are sorted based on their VR positions, so keep in mind a Pokémon being higher then another one doesn't mean it's better at that specific role. Pokémon not on the VR have been put at the back of the list (Ho-Oh, Dialga, Heatran and Magneton).

1. Offense
4 attacking move breakers:
Physical:
Special:

Choice Item users:
Choice Band:
Choice Specs:
Choice Scarf (not Shadow Tag):

Setup sweepers:
Physical Setup:
Special Setup:
Mixed Setup:
Wonder Guard Setup:

No Guard:
Sing + Gastro Acid:
4 Attacking Moves / 3 Attacking Moves + Sing:
Setup:

2. Defense
Walls:
Non Sturdy/Wonder Guard physical walls:
Special walls:
Physical Sturdy/Wonder Guards:

3. Shadow Tag
4 attacks / 3 attacks + Trick:
Perish Trap/Support:

You think you could do this for mbounce, innards, harvest, ect?