• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Unpopular opinions

DreamPrince said:
VGC should allow Mythical Pokémon.

I understand why they were initially event exclusive Pokemon that couldn’t be obtained via normal gameplay, hence the ban to promote accessibility- though VGC’s accessibility has never really been accessible- but that’s a discussion for another time.

Now a good chunk of mythical Pokemon have been obtainable from indefinite events, there’s no reason for those Pokemon to be banned.

Here’s a list of mythical Pokemon from indefinite events: Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Manaphy, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, Arceus, Meloetta, Keldeo, Meltan, Melmetal, Pecharunt, and Magearna. Assuming Legends Z-A will follow in PLA in having the entire region’s Dex in the game, I imagine that Hoopa, Diancie, and Volcanion will be normally catchable as well. Granted, some of these do require multiple games and Home to transfer between them, but this is no different from having to own PLA for Sneasler and Ursaluna, or SwSh’s DLC for Calyrex. Not to mention they are already allowing event only Pokémon with Walking Wake and Iron Leaves along with SwSh’s mythical season during Battle Stadium- so it’s not like it’s unheard of . I think Pecharunt is particular slap in the face because its from an indefinite event in SV that can be obtained as long as you competed the DLC. It’s just one of those decisions that made a sense a long time ago but does not make sense as games have continued to change accessibility.
Click to expand...
While I get the argument, my biggest issue is categorization of these mythicals, they can't be restricted because they were allowed alongside unlimited restricted mons in SS and none of them were used, arceus would be the only one that should probably be a restricted because cmon, it's arceus. But a lot of them are also way stronger than regular mons, magearna would be kinda nutty and darkrai reintroduces dark void shenanigans, yes it's been nerfed significantly but you still have a 75% chance of hitting at least one of them and for a pokemon that's so fast and so threatening that gambling is just not very enjoyable, not to mention pokemon like shaymin sky who are flinchbots, Genesect who would be a major threat etc etc, and yes regular mons these days are absolutely ludicrously strong as well, but do we really need more of these huge threats running about? I'd argue probably not, it would be interesting to see though because I may be proven wrong, albeit a long as arceus is classified as a restricted because if it wasn't immediate 100% usage rate
 
Sonikku A said:
Huh...
I rescind that comment, but Wes is still cardboard
Click to expand...
Like every other protag. The Sun/Moon protag is infamously known for having the facial range of that Twilight actress.

The moment the player takes over, he's cardboard. But not the backstory, which impacts the overall story. It's undeniable that Orre has an unique gritiness to it, and part of it is the protag looking the part.
 
Yung Dramps said:
I'm calling it now: Once Colosseum/XD release on NSO, their reputation will see a steep decline over the following years, especially the former. So much of Orre's acclaim and legacy is built on being "The secret 3D Pokemon classic Nintendo doesn't want you to play" which has generated a bubble of mystique that's soon to be popped. We call this "Sonic CD syndrome"
Click to expand...
If there's ever a spinoff that I think desperately needs a remake to smooth out the rough edges, it's Pokemon Colosseum.

What you have to pick from is a pool of 50% meme mons and 50% okay mons - not a good look in a game with roughly 50 options. Very occasionally you'll get a "holy crap this is amazing mon" like Furret or Meditite that generally went overlooked in their respective games but it's few and far between. Contrast this to XD, where almost every Pokemon in that game has something to offer to set it apart (though it does come at the expense of half the roster being locked to Citadark, unfortunately). A good example of this would be how Gulpin is your only real Toxic user unless you're lucky enough to roll Surskit and trade for Shuckle given TM06's Orre Colosseum / postgame status. XD has dud mons too (Mawile and Trapinch come to mind) but they are nowhere near as common as Colosseum's underwhelming roster.

A prime example of how awkward Colosseum mons are is Qwilfish. On paper, putting Qwilfish in a game like Colosseum is a great idea. Without stuff like Starmie or Lapras or Tentacruel and the like to make it basically obsolete, Qwilfish should shine. But it not only has the objectively weakest Surf of all the Water types, it doesn't even get Sludge Bomb until the last 5% of the game (good luck beating Under Colosseum with their high levels).

Another great example is Sudowoodo. It's basically the only real Rock type in the game (lol Magcargo level 37 evolution and Tyranitar final Shadow Pokemon pre-credits). In a Doubles-centric game, Rock Slide sounds like a lot of fun. Too bad almost every boss after it uses Earthquake or Water moves.

Hitmontop: Intimidate in Doubles? Sounds cool. Needing to get the Brick Break TM from the level 50 Pyrite Colosseum to really do anything with it is not (lol Triple Kick).

A good chunk of the other mons are stuff that has gained evolutions since then (Misdreavus / Murkrow / Aipom / Piloswine / Yanma / Sneasel / Dunsparce) and / or have been benefited by the physical / special split and better moves - something a remake would naturally fix. You know what else a remake should fix? The absurdly garbage final boss fight with Evice.

Some mons in Colosseum are the solution to the next boss fight and then are underwhelming after, very bad in a game where you don't want to swap team members due to the high level curve. Noctowl helps for Miror B but then has little offensive presence afterward basically making it a purely Hypnosis / Reflect bot. Mantine is good for Dakim but falls off after that. Ledian is hilariously one of the better Venus counters thanks to Safeguard but then you drop it because it's Ledian LOL.

Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness took a barely playable game in Pokemon Colosseum and simply made it utterly amazing. XD is a contender for my favorite Pokemon game period in spite of how battle heavy it is. That's what happens when the developers actually care about making a fun roster to use and making the difficulty more balanced (Pokemon Colosseum's idea of challenge is constant level spikes which just doesn't work in a linear game and essentially forces you to go grind by endgame). Outside the starters and some of the early Pyrite stuff, Colosseum's options are pretty dire. Pokemon Colosseum has great ideas, I just think it lacks the polish to be a truly fun game that I want to come back to consistently.
 
Last edited:
DrumstickGaming said:
(Pokemon Colosseum's idea of challenge is constant level spikes which just doesn't work in a linear game and essentially forces you to go grind by endgame)
Click to expand...
this makes sense with the added context of the team that made Colosseum were all Dragon Quest people with limited familiarity in Pokemon. Dragon Quest loves forcing you to grind and subjecting you to random level spikes and encounters that are just designed to troll you.

DrumstickGaming said:
Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness took a barely playable game in Pokemon Colosseum and simply made it utterly amazing. XD is a contender for my favorite Pokemon game period in spite of how battle heavy it is.
Click to expand...
I think XD is clearly a much better pokemon game than Colosseum is, and I don't think anybody really argues differently, but a part of me still prefers Colosseum because it's a bad pokemon game if that makes any sense lmao. I played XD first and then played Colosseum much later and there's just something about how jank, rigid, and bizarre it feels that I just vibe with. XD feels like an actual pokemon game, which is good, but I can get that feeling anywhere with any of the mainline games.
 
Here's mine:

-I've felt like BW2 out of all the Pokemon games felt like the best imo. Neo team Plasma goes full terrorist mode after everyone in Unova realize Ghetsis lied to everyone over Pokemon 'liberation', being able to challenge older characters in the past is fun, & the Champion Iris can kick your maw if you're not prepared.

-Rhyperior's design is pretty good, I understand why people hated it bc it was overcomplicated or bc it didn't live up the consistency design wise as opposed to Rhydon-esque designs such as Nidoking or Aggron. (Also bc Rhyperior hits like a truck)

-Personal favorite Eeveelution is Jolteon bc good electric types in Kanto are sparse, unless you find a Power Plant...

-I always found Bulbasaur much better in Firered, fun utility mon with a sleep move to make catching Pokemon easier.

-While the transition from 2-D to 3-D in Pokemon was inevitable as animating in 3-D is much less time consuming given the sheer number of Pokemon, Pokemon felt the Sonic curse that caused a downward slope of mixed quality.
 
Altissimo said:
nobody should ever learn moves from bills dad in Crystal

you are enabling a man's gambling addiction
Click to expand...

In Pokemon World, that is not a problem. Broke? Go outside with your Tyranitar (who conveniently knows Flamethrower, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam) and smash some toddler's Rattata and Pidgey, you now have money again. And if you lose and have no money, you are not losing more money, debts aren,t a thing in Pokemon World. If some guy turns out to have a Machamp for your Tyranitar, well, there is free healtchare too.
 
CynicalGiant said:
Colosseum because it's a bad pokemon game if that makes any sense lmao. I played XD first and then played Colosseum much later and there's just something about how jank, rigid, and bizarre it feels that I just vibe with. XD feels like an actual pokemon game, which is good, but I can get that feeling anywhere with any of the mainline games.
Click to expand...
It's similar to RBY vs. FRLG to me.

FRLG is, objectively, the better game. But it's awfully bland, and Gen 3 mechanics are just... dated. Probably my least favorite gen to play, despite all the great games. The in-between of having EVs instead of Stat. Exp. like Gens 1-2 makes all the slow mixed attackers so much weaker than they should be, but there's no Gen 4 Physical Special Split to set it as a modern game either.

Meanwhile, RBY has that good jank that makes things unique.

Colosseum is the same, the game is objectively worse, but it's also a lot more unique than XD. XD being better structured, but having its own issues means that at its core, it's also a Gen 3 game where most mons also get Refresh for some reason. Meh.
 
FRLG is basically the New Super Mario Bros. of Pokemon. It's easy to pick up and play, perfectly adequate and inoffensive. There is nothing it does exceptionally poorly and it's probably a better-constructed game than something like SV. But unless you're a Sevii Islands true believer there's really nothing to latch onto and it can feel a bit sanded off and bland compared to its predecessors
 
Yung Dramps said:
FRLG is basically the New Super Mario Bros. of Pokemon. It's easy to pick up and play, perfectly adequate and inoffensive. There is nothing it does exceptionally poorly and it's probably a better-constructed game than something like SV. But unless you're a Sevii Islands true believer there's really nothing to latch onto and it can feel a bit sanded off and bland compared to its predecessors
Click to expand...
it's where you need to go to get all the unown forms in any gen 3 game I guess for whatever that's worth to anybody
 
I'm pretty sure the 3rd gen games are the only ones I've played that run at a consistent 60fps. They feel like the most technically polished entries I've ever played, anyway. Which isn't the most important thing for a turn-based RPG, but I think it's worth noting when the rest of the franchise is often notable for how buggy and unpolished it frequently is.

Yung Dramps said:
FRLG is basically the New Super Mario Bros. of Pokemon.
Click to expand...
I think this is actually a pretty good comparison (laudatory).

NSMBW+U bring a lot of substantial and worthwhile things to the table wrt game and level design but are typically dinged because of poor stylistic choices and the weight of simple nostalgia for older titles.
 
FRLG doesn't even improve much from a game design lens, in fact removing much of Gen 1 Kanto's mechanical depth:
  • Kanto's inherent design mean Psychic-types and special attackers in general as overpowered as before. Psychic is the only busted TM from Gen 1 that wasn't replaced, and Dark and Steel technically existing means nothing when Trainer rosters are completely unaltered. Intimidate being everywhere and a Growl- and Harden-stuffed early-game actively punish you for not using your special attacking starter.
  • Speaking of starters, Venusaur and Grass-types in general are much harder to use end-game considering no Swords Dance in Silph, less reliable sleep mechanics, and a nerfed Razor Leaf leaving no exciting Grass-type moves in existence.
  • Speed-based crit mechanics being gone leaves a good number of Pokemon with even fewer compelling moves. The likes of Persian and Rapidash, whose Speed and consequent crit chance gave them something of note, are now completely unremarkable.
  • Ground-types no longer have the distinction of being physical attackers that easily beat Koffing and Gastly, leaving them arguably worthless.
  • TMs being weaker leaves Normal-types with coverage that generally loses out to STAB Return, making them as uninteresting to play as Pokemon can get.
  • Poison resisting Bug leaves Zubat and Paras without easy training targets in Grass/Poison types, and it makes Beedrill's power spike with Twineedle at level 20 a lot less impactful.
  • Wrap/Bind users like Arbok and Onix can no longer cheese their way to victory to compensate for their general weakness.
  • On top of so many Pokemon being weaker, the League is much harder to exploit, leaving less room for 'fun' builds and planning ahead. I've had to drop a 'yellow Pokemon only' run there because my only options were to grind or X item cheese. Pokemon is not fun when the AI outmatches you in every angle that matters, and the Gen 2 overhaul removed a lot of angles.
  • Fighting-types is the only Pokemon category that got a significant upgrade, and even then, Poison being everywhere means you're using mopey Normal coverage or Rock Slide for every time you get to click a shiny new Fighting-type move.
Ultimately, FRLG reinforces the way it was always optimal to play Kanto (and pre-BW Pokemon in general, admittedly): solo with your starter or a Psychic type. Deviate with anything less, and you'll regret it when the overleveled endgame comes around. So many Pokemon lost their identity and ability to exploit Gen 1 mechanics and TMs.
 
Last edited:
CryoGyro said:
  • Ground-types no longer have the distinction of being physical attackers that easily beat Koffing and Haunter, leaving them arguably worthless.
Click to expand...

This one sticks out to me because of the way Cubone is obtainable in Kanto. Cubone is catchable in the Pokemon Tower as a rare encounter, and the one attacking move it has off the bat in RGBY is Bone Club, a Ground STAB.

This was a clever design choice in RGB because Gastly and Haunter are the common enemies in the Pokemon Tower dungeon and from an RPG standpoint are unique enemies that can only be ID'd and battled via the Silph Scope, and are very difficult to kill because they are impervious to typical physical skills (aka Normal-type moves) and even Fighting-type moves, and their high Special means they're hard to kill on the special side too outside of Psychic-types, with Ivysaur struggling to do anything, and Charmeleon and Wartortle not doing much to them with their magic attacks either. They are also immune to Poison, making it so they can't be worn down by the typical passive damage that you have (except Burn which has a low chance of occurring). So Cubone being there means a player who is struggling to kill Gastly/Haunter while in that dungeon can catch one, and its Bone Club will be a powerful tool to KO Gastly/Haunter easily: it's like the game is basically offering you a tool to give you an easy way out against a common enemy in a unique dungeon that is designed to be particularly difficult to deal with otherwise.

Gastly and Haunter gaining Levitate in FRLG and thus being immune to Ground-type moves kills that in-game niche entirely. Now Cubone can't do anything to Gastly and Haunter, and the only things that *can* easily deal with Gastly and Haunter are Kadabra and Mr. Mime.

In general a lot of the changes to mechanics in Gen 3 mesh poorly with RBG's original game design (which FRLG doesn't do much to alter) and completely compromise its identity as a very 90s JRPG. It's why I'm never a big fan of remakes and why I'm not fond of BDSP either. I like HGSS and ORAS on their own terms because they at least go all the way in being distinct, taking the source game and putting its own spin on it rather than just copypasting the original and putting in new mechanics that compromise the original design.
 
The ground types in FRLG bit is also crazy because it means that any Ground type obtained after Lt. Surge does not have a single strong match-up against an important boss for the remainder of the game, aside from a very unstable Blaine (not a single ground type in Kanto can take a Fire Blast comfortably) and a reliable win against the very easy Silph Co. Giovanni fight.
 
While all these critcisms are fair, they are overblown. FRLG isn't way harder to beat than RBY. Haunter has 55 SDef and 45 Def it isn't tanking any kind of attack, Gastly is weaker and it has a way higher encounter rate. At least in gen 3, you can buy Dig in the Dept Store so Onyx, Sandshrew and the Nidos can have STAB. Ground immunity to electric attacks by itself guarantees they will never be useless in a Pokémon game and Poison isn't the only type that ground hits super-effectively.
 
i'm not sure how much of a hot take it is, but gen 3 is by far my favorite gen to play casually. i like all the gens (except 6) but gen 3 feels like it hits a really good balance where the games have a solid amount of difficulty to keep you engaged but with a good chunk of variety in mons. this is definitely nostalgia bias, but every time i revisit the games i don't feel like anything's really deeply wrong with them, they just hit a lot of the spots you would want in a pokemon game. i see a lot of people refuse to play them just because no physical/special split, which is honestly a shame.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top