Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

[CPU]

I was watching a Japanese streamer play Gen 9 and they had one of their Pokémon use Double Kick. When I heard what the move was called in Japanese (にどげり/nidogeri), I had a thought...

Was the fact that the Nidos learned the move in Gen 1 a pun?

As an OG gen 1 player, them learning Double Kick has always felt a little iconic to me. It was moved to be an early move for the line in Yellow to compensate for Brock being a rather difficult matchup for Pikachu, giving it more exposure. The only other Pokémon to learn it in Gen 1 were Hitmonlee and Jolteon, so it wasn't a common move by any means. It's not a surefire theory but I think I like the idea.

 

[Karxrida]

was watching a Japanese streamer play Gen 9 and they had one of their Pokémon use Double Kick. When I heard what the move was called in Japanese (にどげり/nidogeri), I had a thought...

Was the fact that the Nidos learned the move in Gen 1 a pun?

Knowing how much Japan likes its puns: almost certainly.

 

[Ironmage]

Apparently the only mon from gens 5,6,7, or 8 to learn Lava Plume is Typhlosion-Hisui, where it was probably grandfathered in from the rest of the evolution line. I get that it's not the most ubiquitous flavour, but the complete abscence is still strange to me. I could easily see Turtonator getting it, for example.

 

[AztecCroc]

Apparently the only mon from gens 5,6,7, or 8 to learn Lava Plume is Typhlosion-Hisui, where it was probably grandfathered in from the rest of the evolution line. I get that it's not the most ubiquitous flavour, but the complete abscence is still strange to me. I could easily see Turtonator getting it, for example.

Turtonator has no association with volcanos lorewise. Only volcano associated Pokemon get Lava Plume.

 

[R_N]

Apparently the only mon from gens 5,6,7, or 8 to learn Lava Plume is Typhlosion-Hisui, where it was probably grandfathered in from the rest of the evolution line. I get that it's not the most ubiquitous flavour, but the complete abscence is still strange to me. I could easily see Turtonator getting it, for example.

Wow there's not even an egg move huh.

You know it's a bit surprising it was never a Move Tutor or TR. Just has that "vibe".

Turtonator has no association with volcanos lorewise. Only volcano associated Pokemon get Lava Plume.

Ignoring that they did give it to Flareon despite no direct volcano connection and eventually give it to the charcadet line, and ignoring that just by visual design it would be right at home using the move

Per its dex entries it likes to live in volcanic habitats.

It lives in volcanoes and eats sulfur and other minerals. Materials from the food it eats form the basis of its explosive shell.

Eating sulfur in its volcanic habitat is what causes explosive compounds to develop in its shell. Its droppings are also dangerously explosive.

The fact it spews out fire and poisonious gases is also likely a volcanic reference.

 

[Hugin]

Apparently the only mon from gens 5,6,7, or 8 to learn Lava Plume is Typhlosion-Hisui, where it was probably grandfathered in from the rest of the evolution line. I get that it's not the most ubiquitous flavour, but the complete abscence is still strange to me. I could easily see Turtonator getting it, for example.

Compare it with Discharge, which is learned by basically every electric-type in the game. Or really, any of the Base-80 attacking moves. There's a whole pile of them, and they're all commonly learned(or were, Rest in Piss Scald). But for some reason, Lava Plume is kept to the barest handful of families.

It's not a big deal, Volcanion or whoever can just use Flamethrower, but it's weird looking at such a basic move and seeing a learnset you'd expect for a legendary's former Signature.

 

[AztecCroc]

Wow there's not even an egg move huh.

You know it's a bit surprising it was never a Move Tutor or TR. Just has that "vibe".


Ignoring that they did give it to Flareon despite no direct volcano connection and eventually give it to the charcadet line, and ignoring that just by visual design it would be right at home using the move

Per its dex entries it likes to live in volcanic habitats.


The fact it spews out fire and poisonious gases is also likely a volcanic reference.

Flareon presumably only got it because all the Eeveelutions got an extra move added to the movesets at 78 in Platinum and Lava Plume was the least flavour breaking option (because they really didn't want to give it Flare Blitz for some reason) and/or the fact that Jolteon and Vaporeon got Discharge and Muddy Water for that slot and they wanted all the groups to have parity (Umbreon and Espeon got Guard and Power Swap, Leafeon and Glaceon got Swords Dance and Barrier).

Turtonator might have not been given Lava Plume on purpose to try and force using Shell Trap (its gimmick).

Also, living in volcanic habitats wasn't what I mean, otherwise they'd have given it to Moltres or Rapidash. All Pokemon that originally got it in DP either are volcanos/lava (Camerupt, Magcargo), control them (Groudon, Entei), are literally called the Volcano Pokemon (Typhlosion, Entei again), learn Eruption (all except Magmar) or are described as/shown as swimming in magma/lava (Magmar, Torkoal, Groudon, Magcargo).

 

[Ironmage]

Wait, isn't effectively every non-airborne Fire-type (or at least, those from gen 6 and earlier) shown as swimming in lava thanks to how lava has a tendency to work in spinoffs?

Torkoal's inclusion in the initial list also feels out there. On one hand, we now have a second coal line with Lava Plume with Charcadet and evolutions. On the other, if this was actually a pattern Coalossal really should have it.

 

[Karxrida]

Torkoal's inclusion in the initial list also feels out there. On one hand, we now have a second coal line with Lava Plume with Charcadet and evolutions. On the other, if this was actually a pattern Coalossal really should have it.

Tbh before I went to read its Pokédex entries just now I didn't even realize Torkoal was that tied to coal (outside of its name obvs). I just assumed it was a volcano turtle and got Lava Plume because it can clearly shoot lava out of the hole on the top of its shell.

 

[CTNC]

Manectric learning Flamethrower and Overheat is pretty weird to me. It's not weird because Manectric learns them, it's weird that it couldn't learn them until the generation after it was introduced. Also, Manectric is the only Electric type who can learn both Flamethrower and Overheat. The other Electric types who can learn Overheat are Rotom, Zebstrika, and Miraidon. I'm giving Rotom a pass because it can only know Overheat when possessing a microwave, but Zebstrika learns Flame Charge by Level up and Miraidon is a futuristic Dragon! Who wouldn't make it so their Dragon robot can breath fire? (If you care about workplace safety laws, you don't count because anyone who wants a Dragon robot cares more about having a Dragon robot than saftey. Source: Professor Turo)

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Manectric learning Flamethrower and Overheat is pretty weird to me. It's not weird because Manectric learns them, it's weird that it couldn't learn them until the generation after it was introduced. Also, Manectric is the only Electric type who can learn both Flamethrower and Overheat. The other Electric types who can learn Overheat are Rotom, Zebstrika, and Miraidon. I'm giving Rotom a pass because it can only know Overheat when possessing a microwave, but Zebstrika learns Flame Charge by Level up and Miraidon is a futuristic Dragon! Who wouldn't make it so their Dragon robot can breath fire? (If you care about workplace safety laws, you don't count because anyone who wants a Dragon robot cares more about having a Dragon robot than saftey. Source: Professor Turo)

I've used Manectric a lot in battle facilities in Gen 3 and am forever forgetting it doesn't get Fire moves in those games, so annoying.

But yeah I'd generally agree that maybe more Electric-types should learn those moves. Interestingly Overheat is never, to my knowledge, explicitly associated with losing control or raging or rampaging but most of the non-Fires that get it are angry- or ferocious-looking species (Exploud, Granbull, Primeape, Rayquaza, Dialga) or else those with an obvious Fire association (Weezing, Solrock, Toucannon, Revavroom, Koraidon). There's definitely more candidates I feel would suit it.

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

Poison Sting is a move only learned by Pokemon you'd expect to attack by piercing (and jellyfish, except Nihilego for some reason). Horns, spines, stingers, and venomous bites are all fair game. Almost all Pokemon that learn the move have strong associations with poison. Most such Pokemon are Poison-type; Gligar, Wurmple, and Frillish all have dex entries describing their use of poison. Joltik learns it as an egg move, giving it more leeway, and tarantula bites are venomous. Three outliers remain:

Vespiquen is the easiest to explain: it orders its swarm to attack the target with their poisonous stingers. Combee is not noted to have a poisonous stinger in any dex entry, but it's extremely plausible given the well-known attributes of real bees. The question is: why doesn't Combee learn Poison Sting? If Vespiquen's Poison Sting is performed by baby Combee, surely Combee can perform the move itself? Does each Combee carry such a miniscule amount of poison that an entire swarm is required for any real attack, even a 35 BP one?

Cacnea's delivery method is obvious: the spines covering its body. The poison part is less clear. Cacti spines are not poisonous, and nothing about the Cacnea line screams poison. It's possible Game Freak decided "plant = poison" was good enough.

Sandshrew is the most mystifying to me. First, neither it nor its evolution are depicted as using poison. If it had poison, it would probably apply it with its claws, but claws are seemingly not treated as a proper means of using Poison Sting. After all, Hisuian Sneasel's claws drip with venom, but it doesn't learn the move. Is it supposed to be for Sandslash's spines (which, again, are not poisonous) and then they just gave it to Sandshrew too?

Bonus 1: Roselia is a perfect fit for Poison Sting, with poisonous thorns on its head and its hands. Budew learns the move as well in Legends: Arceus, though, despite lacking both. Budew is no doubt poisonous, but I fail to see how it stings. Budew actually has Roselia's entire learnset in Legends: Arceus. Gameplay purposes, no doubt.

Bonus 2: Naganadel, the Poison-type "UB Stinger", does not learn Poison Sting.

 

[AztecCroc]

Does each Combee carry such a miniscule amount of poison that an entire swarm is required for any real attack, even a 35 BP one?

Poison Sting is 15 power not 35. Vespiquen has an actual stinger separate from the Combee, that's what the yellow lump in the middle of its "dress" of honeycomb is.

Cacnea's delivery method is obvious: the spines covering its body. The poison part is less clear. Cacti spines are not poisonous, and nothing about the Cacnea line screams poison. It's possible Game Freak decided "plant = poison" was good enough.

Most cacti aren't, but some kinds of barrel cactus (the ball ones that Cacnea's based on) have poisonous sap.

Sandshrew is the most mystifying to me. First, neither it nor its evolution are depicted as using poison. If it had poison, it would probably apply it with its claws, but claws are seemingly not treated as a proper means of using Poison Sting. After all, Hisuian Sneasel's claws drip with venom, but it doesn't learn the move. Is it supposed to be for Sandslash's spines (which, again, are not poisonous) and then they just gave it to Sandshrew too?

Many species of shrew are venomous.

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

Poison Sting is 15 power not 35

D'oh, when I checked its stats I mixed up its power and PP

Vespiquen has an actual stinger separate from the Combee, that's what the yellow lump in the middle of its "dress" of honeycomb is.

I saw that but couldn't imagine it stinging with it without the honeycomb getting in the way

Many species of shrew are venomous.

D'oh^2

 

[Omastar68]

I think I knew this before, it just hadn't really sunk in cause why would it have needed to. But saw ferrothorn use thunder in Pokemon go. Of course it gets t bolt too...I'm not really sure why it gets those moves. I've seen weirder stuff, but it just doesn't particularly make sense.

 

[R_N]

I think I knew this before, it just hadn't really sunk in cause why would it have needed to. But saw ferrothorn use thunder in Pokemon go. Of course it gets t bolt too...I'm not really sure why it gets those moves. I've seen weirder stuff, but it just doesn't particularly make sense.

There's a few steel types that like to get electric moves like this, I assume because of how electricity can interact with metal, but for Ferrothorn specifically I wouldn't be surprised if this is at least partially because its origin was the Chargestone cave.

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

Triple Axel is explicitly defined as "A consecutive three-kick attack". Its distribution among non-Ice-types is almost completely limited to Pokemon with humanoid legs. Kirlia, Mienshao, Meowscarada, and others can easily be seen executing a spinning kick. Among Ice-types, the distribution is quite a bit more lax.


I don't really see it doing a triple axel with that quadrupedal build, but it could kick someone.


Well, they don't have legs, but they could rapidly twirl and whip an opponent with their tails in a similar manner.


I suppose it could perform a similar attack with its long arms, but come on.


?????

 

[R_N]

Triple Axel is explicitly defined as "A consecutive three-kick attack". Its distribution among non-Ice-type is almost completely limited to Pokemon with humanoid legs. Kirlia, Mienshao, Meowscarada, and others can easily be seen executing a spinning kick. Among Ice-types, the distribution is quite a bit more lax.


I don't really see it doing a triple axel with that quadrupedal build, but it could kick someone.


Well, they don't have legs, but they could rapidly twirl and whip an opponent with their tails in a similar manner.


I suppose it could perform a similar attack with its long arms, but come on.


?????

As far as spinning objects hitting you with strong force akin to a kick goes, i think "giant extremely hard snowflake hitting you with spikes" would go up there

In contrast getting smacked: by the pitter patter of moth wings

 

[Hugin]

Triple Axel is explicitly defined as "A consecutive three-kick attack". Its distribution among non-Ice-types is almost completely limited to Pokemon with humanoid legs. Kirlia, Mienshao, Meowscarada, and others can easily be seen executing a spinning kick. Among Ice-types, the distribution is quite a bit more lax.


I don't really see it doing a triple axel with that quadrupedal build, but it could kick someone.


Well, they don't have legs, but they could rapidly twirl and whip an opponent with their tails in a similar manner.


I suppose it could perform a similar attack with its long arms, but come on.


?????

Froslass is particularly weird, since Glalie(which could reasonably spin) doesn't learn it. They specifically gave only Froslass the move. WHY.

 

[R_N]

Froslass is particularly weird, since Glalie(which could reasonably spin) doesn't learn it. They specifically gave only Froslass the move. WHY.

Because she's a feminine Pokemon and has the arm/ear things to smack you with.

It's obviously not exclusively given to feminine waifu Pokemon but also boy wow there sure are a lot of them that learn the figure skating move huh


Honestly it really feels like a move that shouldn't be defined by kicking considering the Axel jump is a spin jump move and in that perspective it's really easy to see why these things without legs (but WITH grace) can get it but for whatever reason here we are, with the exact same description and everything as Triple Kick.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Froslass is particularly weird, since Glalie(which could reasonably spin) doesn't learn it. They specifically gave only Froslass the move. WHY.

On the other hand, Glalie does learn the other Ice-type move that involves spinning, aka Ice Spinner!

 

[leafsaber47]

Lopunny can't learn Bulk Up.

Guess Game Freak has never heard of My Hero Academia.

 

[johnkneebravo]

Gyarados's dorsal fins have always looked like wings to me, so when I first saw its Mega Evolution, I was excited because I thought Gyarados had finally become a full-fledged dragon that could fly, but I was wrong...

 

[Inspirited]

There is the well known quirk of Zekrom and Reshiram being unable to use Earthquake, but I recently discovered that they could not learn Roar until Scarlet and Violet either. They got Noble Roar in Sun and Moon but not the basic Roar. It's not like Roar has been skipped as a TM either so there isn't much of an excuse for this one. I like that these two have the move now but I really wish particularly Zekrom had it in Black 2 / White 2.

 

[AztecCroc]

There is the well known quirk of Zekrom and Reshiram being unable to use Earthquake, but I recently discovered that they could not learn Roar until Scarlet and Violet either. They got Noble Roar in Sun and Moon but not the basic Roar. It's not like Roar has been skipped as a TM either so there isn't much of an excuse for this one. I like that these two have the move now but I really wish particularly Zekrom had it in Black 2 / White 2.

What do you need Roar Zekrom for in BW2?