Resource ORAS OU Viability Rankings

Ruffles · May 3, 2025

Art by sonatines

Spreadsheet by RufflesPro
Thank you to all the hand-selected particpants for submitting their VR.

From this thread by xray

Welcome to the official ORAS OU Viability Rankings thread. In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in ORAS OU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each OU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

EX: Garchomp can be ranked in A tier as an offensive threat, Ferrothorn can be ranked under A as a supportive threat, and Hippowdon can be can also be ranked in B tier as a defensive threat. These are just examples not representative of their future or current ranks.

You may notice that they are not ranked alphabetically within their own subtiers; that is because every Pokemon is ranked within their subranks too.

From this thread by xray

S

The best of the best. Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the OU metagame and are clear-cut above the rest of the tier. These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for and/or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

-----

A

Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame and can perform well against most play styles, but require some support or have some flaws that prevent them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but they can still do their job most of the time. Pokemon in this rank are also known to define the play styles they fit on or are easy to add on any given team while being able to carry their weight nearly every match.

-----

B

Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job, are set up bait for dangerous sweepers, or often give too many free turns. Pokemon who are partially outperformed or struggle with taking on the Pokemon in the A or S Rank, but are otherwise dangerous in their own right and aren't difficult to fit on teams, may also fall into this category.

-----

C

Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective in the right setting, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are entirely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks. Pokemon in this rank typically require more extensive support, struggle to perform against the Pokemon ranked above, and are difficult to fit on teams.

Thank you to Alpha1013, Ithi, BluBirD, ACR1, Garay oak, London Beats, Sylvi, Santu, Paprikaflow, MANNAT, Metallica126, lighthouses, RufflesPro, Gondra, Poek, Savouras, and Zaza for submitting a VR and helping with the project.

ORAS OU Viability Ranking (5/3/2025)

S+
1. :metagross-mega:

Metagross-Mega

S
2. :excadrill:

Excadrill
3. :serperior:

Serperior

S-
4. :Clefable:

Clefable
5. :alakazam-mega:

Alakazam-Mega
6. :weavile:

Weavile

A+
7. :Thundurus:

Thundurus
8. :Volcarona:

Volcarona
9. :Volcanion:

Volcanion
10. :Keldeo-resolute:

Keldeo
11. :Tyranitar-Mega:

Tyranitar-Mega
12. :Garchomp:

Garchomp
13. :Manaphy:

Manaphy

A
14. :Zapdos:

Zapdos
15. :Tornadus-Therian:

Tornadus-Therian
16. :Lopunny-Mega:

Lopunny-Mega
17. :Diancie-Mega:

Diancie-Mega
18. :Rotom-Wash:

Rotom-Wash
19. :Chansey:

Chansey
20. :Gliscor:

Gliscor
21. :Skarmory:

Skarmory
22. :Bisharp:

Bisharp
23. :Venusaur-Mega:

Venusaur-Mega
24. :Tyranitar:

Tyranitar

A-
25. :Ferrothorn:

Ferrothorn
26. :Medicham-Mega:

Medicham-Mega
27. :Charizard-Mega-Y:

Charizard-Mega-Y
28. :dragonite:

Dragonite
29. :Landorus-Therian:

Landorus-Therian
30. :Slowbro:

Slowbro
31. :Gallade-Mega:

Gallade-Mega
32. :Heatran:

Heatran
33. :Cresselia:

Cresselia
34. :Gyarados-Mega:

Gyarados-Mega

B+
35. :Charizard-Mega-X:

Charizard-Mega-X
36. :Kyurem-Black:

Kyurem-Black
37. :Scizor-Mega:

Scizor-Mega
38. :Cofagrigus:

Cofagrigus
39. :Amoonguss:

Amoonguss
40. :Latias-Mega:

Latias-Mega
41. :Latias:

Latias
42. :Hippowdon:

Hippowdon
43. :Cloyster:

Cloyster
44. :Blissey:

Blissey
45. :Talonflame:

Talonflame
46. :Gardevoir-Mega:

Gardevoir-Mega

B
47. :Garchomp-Mega:

Garchomp-Mega
48. :Mew:

Mew
49.

Thundurus-Therian
50. :Gastrodon:

Gastrodon
51. :Suicune:

Suicune
52. :Quagsire:

Quagsire
53. :Manectric-Mega:

Manectric-Mega
54. :Latios:

Latios
55. :Slowbro-Mega:

Slowbro-Mega
56. :Scolipede:

Scolipede
57. :Seismitoad:

Seismitoad
58. :Pinsir-Mega:

Pinsir-Mega
59. :Crawdaunt:

Crawdaunt
60. :Magnezone:

Magnezone
61. :Kyurem:

Kyurem

B-
62. :altaria-mega:

Altaria-Mega
63. :Aerodactyl:

Aerodactyl
64. :Reuniclus:

Reuniclus
65. :Alomomola:

Alomomola
66. :Heracross-Mega:

Heracross-Mega
67. :Azumarill:

Azumarill
68. :Diggersby:

Diggersby
69. :Hydreigon:

Hydreigon
70. :Victini:

Victini
71. :gengar:

Gengar

C+
72. :Starmie:

Starmie
73. :Latios-Mega:

Latios-Mega
74. :Gyarados:

Gyarados
75. :Terrakion:

Terrakion
76. :tangrowth:

Tangrowth
77. :cobalion:

Cobalion

C
78. :jirachi:

Jirachi
79. :Azelf:

Azelf
80. :breloom:

Breloom
81. :Aerodactyl-Mega:

Aerodactyl-Mega
82. :Jellicent:

Jellicent
83. :Swampert-Mega:

Swampert-Mega
84. :Alakazam:

Alakazam
85. :celebi:

Celebi
86. :empoleon:

Empoleon

C-
87. :aggron-mega:

Aggron-Mega
88. :Ditto:

Ditto
89. :Nidoking:

Nidoking
90. :Conkeldurr:

Conkeldurr

D
91. :Shuckle:

Shuckle
92. :Sharpedo-Mega:

Sharpedo-Mega
93. :Camerupt-Mega:

Camerupt-Mega
94. :Tentacruel:

Tentacruel
95. :Steelix-Mega:

Steelix-Mega
96. :Dragalge:

Dragalge
97. :Infernape:

Infernape
98. :Zygarde:

Zygarde
99. :klefki:

Klefki
100. :umbreon:

Umbreon

Previous VR Here

Ruffles · May 3, 2025

1. All mons are assumed ranked up
2. Rankings are based on the final number tally a Pokemon has. Tiers are split around benchmarks. How much each Pokemon is in each tier is a result of both how the numbers turned out and how populated that tier was with people's tierlists
3. Corrections are made to account for the lower half of the tier lists (Pokemon ranked 50 and below), and for rankings too low for the tier (i.e., a person have so many A+ and A ranked Pokemon that the last A tier Pokemon is #35, which is not indicative of what A should be)
4. Correction values are based on estimates of what middle/average value of a tier is.
5. Outliers are taken out of calculations. Outliers were picked based on numbers and gut feeling, based on the already current data set.

(1) was done because it is near impossible to give rankings to Pokemon otherwise. For example, if everyone ranked both Excdrill and Clefable S tier, I would not be able to rank one over the other
(2) For example, A- rank is big, and B+/B are very large. This is because many people populated these quite a bit. The benchmarks chosen were a mix of gut feeling but mostly numbers
(3) So if someone ranked Azumarill #64, I'm not gonna tally 64 under it, instead just give it its tier. If it is in the B- tier, that would give it a value of 64, since that is the average value a mon in the B- gets. If it was put in the B tier, it would get 52, even though it is ranked 64.
There are tier lists that were very disproportional. For example, Savouras and Santu had 40+ Pokemon in A-. It would mean some Pokemon were ranked #62 but A- at the same time, and thus correct to 29.
(4) After all mons were laid out and tallies were counted, corrections were based on how many mons in each tier was. For example, B+ is 34-46, so an average of 40 was given to a mon in B+. Since the value of A was 20, a Pokemon ranked in A+ but was #22, it would be given the A value (11) immediately instead
(5) Unfortunate but I had to include it. For example, Savouras ranked Mega Alakazam #23 when there was almost no one ranking it below 10. If it was included in the calculation, it would tank it quite it a bit. It was a bit difficult to choose an outlier. It is based on the data set so if everyone was voting Tangrowth around C or D but Sav put it in A, it is easy to discount it. But what if everyone ranked a Pokemon B, but then one person ranked it A+, and another C-? In that case since there are two outliers of opposite sides, I didn't choose an outlier

It is not perfect and there could be some mistakes, so please let me know and I'll update it. I know exactly how to do it now for the next VR though. This took me about 3 weeks to tally up and then come up with a system. Enjoy

Alpha1013 · May 7, 2025

Here are the +/- movements in the current VR compared to the previous one

S+ Rank
1. :metagross-mega:

Metagross-Mega (+15)

S Rank
2. :excadrill:

Excadrill (-1)
3. :serperior:

Serperior (+1)

S- Rank
4. :clefable:

Clefable (-2)
5. :Alakazam-Mega:

Alakazam-Mega (+4)
6. :weavile:

Weavile (+1)

A+ Rank
7. :Thundurus:

Thundurus (+19)
8. :Volcarona:

Volcarona (+5)
9. :Volcanion:

Volcanion (+2)
10. :Keldeo-resolute:

Keldeo (+20)
11. :Tyranitar-Mega:

Tyranitar-Mega (+21)
12. :Garchomp:

Garchomp (+10)
13. :Manaphy:

Manaphy (-3)
14. :Zapdos:

Zapdos (+9)
15. :Tornadus-Therian:

Tornadus-Therian (-12)
16. :Lopunny-Mega:

Lopunny-Mega (-10)
17. :Diancie-Mega:

Diancie-Mega (-9)
18. :Rotom-Wash:

Rotom-Wash (-13)
19. :Chansey:

Chansey (+17)
20. :Gliscor:

Gliscor (+3)
21. :Skarmory:

Skarmory (+16)
22. :Bisharp:

Bisharp (+6)
23. :Venusaur-Mega:

Venusaur-Mega (+24)
24. :Tyranitar:

Tyranitar (-7)

A-
25. :Ferrothorn:

Ferrothorn (-13)
26. :Medicham-Mega:

Medicham-Mega (-13)
27. :Charizard-Mega-Y:

Charizard-Mega-Y (-7)
28. :Landorus-Therian:

Landorus-Therian (+6)
29. :Slowbro:

Slowbro (-11)
30. :Gallade-Mega:

Gallade-Mega (+40)
31. :Heatran:

Heatran (+2)
32. :Cresselia:

Cresselia (+31)
33. :Gyarados-Mega:

Gyarados-Mega (+13)

B+
34. :Dragonite:

Dragonite (+8)
35. :Charizard-Mega-X:

Charizard-Mega-X (+4)
36. :Kyurem-Black:

Kyurem-Black (+15)
37. :Scizor-Mega:

Scizor-Mega (-10)
38. :Cofagrigus:

Cofagrigus (-9)
39. :Amoonguss:

Amoonguss (+18)
40. :Latias-Mega:

Latias-Mega (-25)
41. :Latias:

Latias (-22)
42. :Hippowdon:

Hippowdon (+31)
43. :Cloyster:

Cloyster (+39)
44. :Blissey:

Blissey (wasn't ranked)
45. :Talonflame:

Talonflame (-10)
46. :Gardevoir-Mega:

Gardevoir-Mega (+6)

B
47. :Garchomp-Mega:

Garchomp-Mega (+36)
48. :Mew:

Mew (+2)
49. :Thundurus-Therian:

Thundurus-Therian (-6)
50. :Gastrodon:

Gastrodon (-9)
51. :Suicune:

Suicune(-2)
52. :Quagsire:

Quagsire (+4)
53. :Manectric-Mega:

Manectric-Mega (+1)
54. :Latios:

Latios (-10)
55. :Slowbro-Mega:

Slowbro-Mega (-24)
56. :Altaria-Mega:

Altaria-Mega (-36)
57. :Scolipede:

Scolipede (+56)
58. :Seismitoad:

Seismitoad (+4)
59. :Pinsir-Mega:

Pinsir-Mega (-19)
60. :Crawdaunt:

Crawdaunt (-2)
61. :Magnezone:

Magnezone (-37)
62. :Kyurem:

Kyurem (+12)

B-
63. :Aerodactyl:

Aerodactyl (+35)
64. :Reuniclus:

Reuniclus (+3)
65. :Alomomola:

Alomomola (+2)
66. :Heracross-Mega:

Heracross-Mega (-7)
67. :Azumarill:

Azumarill (-22)
68. :Diggersby:

Diggersby (+38)
69. :Hydreigon:

Hydreigon (-9)
70. :Victini:

Victini (-2)

C+
71. :Starmie:

Starmie (-18)
72. :Gengar:

Gengar (-8)
73. :Latios-Mega:

Latios-Mega (-13)
74. :Gyarados:

Gyarados (+17)
75. :Jirachi:

Jirachi (-4)
76. :Terrakion:

Terrakion (-11)

C
77. :Azelf:

Azelf (+7)
78. :Aggron-Mega:

Aggron-Mega (+12)
79. :Breloom:

Breloom (-24)
80. :Aerodactyl-Mega:

Aerodactyl-Mega (-8)
81. :Jellicent:

Jellicent (-33)
82. :Swampert-Mega:

Swampert-Mega (+20)
83. :Alakazam:

Alakazam (-8)
C-
84. :Ditto:

Ditto (-6)
85. :Tangrowth:

Tangrowth (-47)
86. :Nidoking:

Nidoking (-17)
87. :Cobalion:

Cobalion (+25)
88. :Conkeldurr:

Conkeldurr (+33)

D
89. :Shuckle:

Shuckle (-9)
90. :Sharpedo-Mega:

Sharpedo-Mega (-13)
91. :Celebi:

Celebi (not ranked)
92. :Camerupt-Mega:

Camerupt-Mega (+13)
93. :Tentacruel:

Tentacruel (-3)
94. :Steelix-Mega:

Steelix-Mega (not ranked)
95. :Dragalge:

Dragalge (+21)
96. :Empoleon:

Empoleon (+3)
97. :Infernape:

Infernape (+14)
98. :Zygarde:

Zygarde (+10)
99. :klefki:

Klefki (?)

mixnite · May 7, 2025

Alpha1013 said:
10. Keldeo (+20)

bdt2002 · May 7, 2025

Alpha1013 said:
Here are the +/- movements in the current VR compared to the previous one

S+ Rank
1. Metagross-Mega (+15)

S Rank
2. Excadrill (-1)
3. Serperior (+1)

S- Rank
4. Clefable (-2)
5. Alakazam-Mega (+4)
6. Weavile (+1)

A+ Rank
7. Thundurus (+19)
8. Volcarona (+?)
9. Volcanion (+?)
10. Keldeo (+20)
11. Tyranitar-Mega (+21)
12. Garchomp (+10)
13. Manaphy (-3)
14. Zapdos (+9)
15. Tornadus-Therian (-12)
16. Lopunny-Mega (-10)
17. Diancie-Mega (-9)
18. Rotom-Wash (-13)
19. Chansey (-17)
20. Gliscor (+3)
21. Skarmory (+16)
22. Bisharp (+6)
23. Venusaur-Mega (+24)
24. Tyranitar (-7)

A-
25. Ferrothorn (-13)
26. Medicham-Mega (-13)
27. Charizard-Mega-Y (-7)
28. Landorus-Therian (+6)
29. Slowbro (-11)
30. Gallade-Mega (+40)
31. Heatran (+2)
32. Cresselia (+31)
33. Gyarados-Mega (+13)

B+
34. Dragonite (+8)
35. Charizard-Mega-X (+4)
36. Kyurem-Black (+15)
37. Scizor-Mega (-10)
38. Cofagrigus (-9)
39. Amoonguss (+18)
40. Latias-Mega (-25)
41. Latias (-22)
42. Hippowdon (+31)
43. Cloyster (+39)
44. Blissey (wasn't ranked)
45. Talonflame (-10)
46. Gardevoir-Mega (+6)

B
47. Garchomp-Mega (+36)
48. Mew (+2)
49. Thundurus-Therian (-6)
50. Gastrodon (-9)
51. Suicune(-2)
52. Quagsire (+4)
53. Manectric-Mega (+1)
54. Latios (-10)
55. Slowbro-Mega (-24)
56. Altaria-Mega (-36)
57. Scolipede (+56)
58. Seismitoad (+4)
59. Pinsir-Mega (-19)
60. Crawdaunt (-2)
61. Magnezone (-37)
62. Kyurem (+12)

B-
63. Aerodactyl (+35)
64. Reuniclus (+3)
65. Alomomola (+2)
66. Heracross-Mega (-7)
67. Azumarill (-22)
68. Diggersby (+38)
69. Hydreigon (-9)
70. Victini (-2)

C+
71. Starmie (-18)
72. Gengar (-8)
73. Latios-Mega (-13)
74. Gyarados (+17)
75. Jirachi (-4)
76. Terrakion (-11)

C
77. Azelf (+7)
78. Aggron-Mega (+12)
79. Breloom (-24)
80. Aerodactyl-Mega (-8)
81. Jellicent (-33)
82. Swampert-Mega (+20)
83. Alakazam (-8)
C-
84. Ditto (-6)
85. Tangrowth (-47)
86. Nidoking (-17)
87. Cobalion (+25)
88. Conkeldurr (+33)

D
89. Shuckle (-9)
90. Sharpedo-Mega (-13)
91. Celebi (not ranked)
92. Camerupt-Mega (+13)
93. Tentacruel (-3)
94. Steelix-Mega (not ranked)
95. Dragalge (+21)
96. Empoleon (+3)
97. Infernape (+14)
98. Zygarde (+10)
99. Goodra (not ranked)

Hello, ORAS community :) It’s been quite a while since I’ve looked into this metagame, but in recent months I’ve had an itch to start grinding on ~~low~~ ladder again as I feel like this is overall one of the more balanced Past Gens of OU (historically my most played formats) and there isn’t a whole lot here if anything I find broken or cheap. That said, I do have some questions about the new VR, not in the sense that I disagree with any of the rankings- in fact, this is one of the best I’ve seen in my opinion- but rather, in the sense that there seem to have been some pretty major metagame shifts during my time away.

First up on my list, what happened with Mega Metagross? I had felt for a pretty long time that #16 was a bit low for it on the previous VR, but all the way to the top spot in a single update? Did something happen recently in the meta that I missed that just completely broke this Pokémon or something? I thought Excadrill and Clefable were the consensus Top 2, at the very least among non-Mega Pokémon. I am very interested in how this happened. I remember back in ORAS’s heyday that Mega Metagross was actually suspect tested at some point, I want to say in 2015 or 2016, but it wouldn’t go on to to be banned like its buffed Gen 7 iteration eventually would. Am I to believe it’s become controversial or problematic again, or is this just a balanced Pokémon that happens to have benefitted from metagame shifts?
Finally, after what feels like an eternity, the hyper offense matchup moth has made it into the VR’s Top 10 where I think it deserves to be. I might be in the minority on this opinion, but I never really saw Volcarona as problematic in Gen 6 specifically, since most of the things that could “break it” in other generations of OU aren’t present here (Gems before their ban, Z-Moves, Boots, Tera, etc.). While I don’t have any issues with Volcarona’s placement, I do have one question that’s been bothering me for years. If this thing is recognized as a true part of the OU metagame, and BL tiers are not playable tiers more often than not, why is this thing still ranked UUBL after so long? Is there a playable Gen 6 UUBL that I’m not aware of? I don’t mean to keep comparing other generations to ORAS, but this feels like an ADV Moltres, ADV Breloom, or ADV Charizard situation where the formerly UUBL ranked Pokémon could have a legitimate argument made to make the jump to bona fide OU status. I mean, heck, if GSC Alakazam can make the jump after over two decades last year, than ORAS Volcarona absolutely can.

mixnite · May 7, 2025

bdt2002 said:
Did something happen recently in the meta that I missed that just completely broke this Pokémon or something?

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch

here's a replay from this years spl showing off this set in action;
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-821647

bdt2002 said:
why is this thing still ranked UUBL after so long?

this is because current gen ORAS was tiered by usage so the tiering stays the same even post gen (which is stupid.)

bdt2002 said:
but this feels like an ADV Moltres, ADV Breloom, or ADV Charizard situation where the formerly UUBL ranked Pokémon could have a legitimate argument made to make the jump to bona fide OU status. I mean, heck, if GSC Alakazam can make the jump after over two decades last year, than ORAS Volcarona absolutely can.

i share a similar sentiment but because how ORAS was tiered with usage as opposed to good player vote or however ADV, GSC and RBY were tiered, we aren't allowed to shift the tiers around (which is stupid.). there was actually a small discussion about this in the ORAS invitational discord server but unfortunately nothing came of it. i'll share a screenshot of what one of the players suggested;

here's a screenshot of a more "exhaustive" explanation in regards to the tiering disparity between ORAS and ADV, GSC and RBY;

Ruffles · May 7, 2025

Similar to an ORAS OU teambuilding competition where a Pokemon is the center for 2 weeks, I want to run this VR with a particular topic being the center of discussion every 2 weeks. The topic might be one Pokemon or a meta shift. Feel free to discuss anything including sets or replays. Was waiting on the +/- VR, thank you Alpha.

Topic #1: Winners & Losers

Biggest Winners
57. :Scolipede:

Scolipede (+56)
30. :Gallade-Mega:

Gallade-Mega (+40)
43. :Cloyster:

Cloyster (+39)
68. :Diggersby:

Diggersby (+38)
47. :Garchomp-Mega:

Garchomp-Mega (+36)
63. :Aerodactyl:

Aerodactyl (+35)
32. :Cresselia:

Cresselia (+31)
23. :Venusaur-Mega:

Venusaur-Mega (+24)
11. :Tyranitar-Mega:

Tyranitar-Mega (+21)
10. :Keldeo-resolute:

Keldeo (+20)
7. :Thundurus:

Thundurus (+19)

Biggest Losers
85. :Tangrowth:

Tangrowth (-47)
61. :Magnezone:

Magnezone (-37)
56. :Altaria-Mega:

Altaria-Mega (-36)
81. :Jellicent:

Jellicent (-33)
40. :Latias-Mega:

Latias-Mega (-25)
55. :Slowbro-Mega:

Slowbro-Mega (-24)
41. :Latias:

Latias (-22)
18. :Rotom-Wash:

Rotom-Wash (-13)
15. :Tornadus-Therian:

Tornadus-Therian (-12)
16. :Lopunny-Mega:

Lopunny-Mega (-10)
17. :Diancie-Mega:

Diancie-Mega (-9)

I'll start the discussion by talking about my favorite winners:

57. :Scolipede:

(+56) - The biggest change belongs to this mon. I think it is quite deserved. In the fast paced meta we find ourself in, being able to keep up spikes is huge, especially if it can take a mon down with it with endeavor. The Swords Dance set is very akin to Talonflame - not great of an Attack stat, but with full investment, Adamant nature, and high base power moves allow it to hit hard. Thanks to speed boost, it hits first most of the time, which is another reminiscence of Talonflame.

30. :Gallade-Mega:

(+40) - Insane drain tank, no contact move. Feels better than #30 and depending on the day can feel like the best fighter mega including better than Lopunny.

43. :Cloyster:

(+39) - Although not as strong as it was a year ago, I do agree that Cloyster can often find itself in positions where it can 6-0 an opposing team once the steel or water has been weakened. It is very scary.

47. :Garchomp-Mega:

(+36) - Brought 3 times in SPL, with a 2-1 record. I think Mega Garchomp has found itself a comfortable position on Sand offense, being able to take advantage of Sand veil before mega and Sand Force after. With the meta slowing down, 311 speed is excellent.

32. :Cresselia:

(+31) - This mon is just an insane stat checker thanks due to its ridiculous BST and can soft check half the meta.

23. :Venusaur-Mega:

(+24) - Now the #6 Mega, which is kinda insane. Mega Venusaur is hard to fit on teams, but feels quite hard to get rid of on the field. Giga Drain with SpA makes it feel like a strong drain tank that is hard to make favorable trades with.

11. :Tyranitar-Mega:

(+21) - Mega Tyranitar found itself as #3 Mega. Sand in general is great, DD set feels extremely threatning, and the support set is near impossible to wear down and get rocks conssitently.

Noteable Drops
18. :Rotom-Wash:

(-13)
15. :Tornadus-Therian:

(-12)
16. :Lopunny-Mega:

(-10)
17. :Diancie-Mega:

(-9)

Although not large drops and still good, they feel like an official departure of the ORAS metagame 2-3 years ago where they were dominating.

Discuss Away :D

mixnite · May 7, 2025

i've said it before and i'll say it again. spike lead Scolipede is the Samurott-H of ORAS

UltraSword · May 7, 2025

mixnite said:
Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch

here's a replay from this years spl showing off this set in action;
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6ou-821647

this is because current gen ORAS was tiered by usage so the tiering stays the same even post gen (which is stupid.)

i share a similar sentiment but because how ORAS was tiered with usage as opposed to good player vote or however ADV, GSC and RBY were tiered, we aren't allowed to shift the tiers around (which is stupid.). there was actually a small discussion about this in the ORAS invitational discord server but unfortunately nothing came of it. i'll share a screenshot of what one of the players suggested;
View attachment 738511

here's a screenshot of a more "exhaustive" explanation in regards to the tiering disparity between ORAS and ADV, GSC and RBY;
View attachment 738512

First off FINALLY SOMEONE WHO ALSO THINKS THE TIERING OF POST ADV PAST GENS IS BS

Second off I completely support the idea of making every past gen vr based. I think it is really stupid that in DPP through SS no pokemon can rise or drop through tiers. I do disagree however, that we shouldn't make pokemon rise from uubl or any bl just because they could be tested in uu or any of the other lower tiers. There are of course exceptions like the DPP Latias unban but 99% of the time if a pokemon is in bl there should be no reason to test it in the tier it was banned from. However, I do think that pokemon in a vr based gen that were in one tier but fell to the bl of the next tier down should have a chance to be tested in that lower tier. I would assume most of the time the pokemon would be broken beyond belief and not permanently drop but I am seeing some in this uubl 2025 picture like Starmie, Azel, maybe even Scizor (I was also going to say Staraptor but while I don't understand what makes it broken in uu for 5 GENS IN A ROW it is a true uubl pokemon so it doesn't matter for my discussion) that could theoretically be tested in uu and be perfectly fine. You could argue that the lower tiers of past gens don't have the playerbase to consistently make these decisions and honestly that is probably true, but these changes would happen very slowly over time, so I think it evens out.

Third off my idea for how to tackle current gens becoming past gens is after a new gen comes out have a 3-month period where any final usage-based changes can happen and then after that is over it switches completely to viability-based tiering. It would be kind of like how in the US the former president has a 3-month time period in between the election of the new president and that president actually taking office.

Anyway, I know many of these arguments should probably go in tiering policy, but I do think these points I am making are good. Thanks for reading :)

PS (Also Mega Metagross is not the number 1 pokemon imo)

slug · May 7, 2025

RufflesPro said:
S+
1. Metagross-Mega

what a welcoming sight to behold.

thank the lord. finally. well deserved. ive been defending :metagross mega:

' spot as THE best mega for months. this thing being under plain S was utter insanity.

:scolipede:

, and especially :thundurus:

; these rises i perfectly agree with.

:charizard mega x:

miniscule rise, but still notable. looks like people are finally realizing how much of a fantastic mon it is. unparalleled breaking and sweeping power.

what i dont get is the :venusaur mega:

rise. still seems as hard to justify as before: 2 of the 4 psychic megas have relatively good longevity, with one of them being able to contest venu's, and its still easy to chip.

bdt2002 · May 7, 2025

sluGGy said:
what i dont get is the rise. still seems as hard to justify as before: 2 of the 4 psychic megas have relatively good longevity, with one of them being able to contest venu's, and its still easy to chip.

Mega Venusaur has an under-appreciated mixture of offensive and defensive utility that from my experience makes it easier to fit on teams than some of the Pokémon it’s competing with. Losing out on Amoonguss’s Regenerator sucks, as does having to rely on Sleep Powder over Spore, but everything else I would say goes on Mega Venusaur’s favor, and Thick Fat is huge for it in a metagame where Fire and Ice are both decently common attacking types. It’s also deceptively fast for a defensively leaning Mega Evolution, and while it’s not the kind of Pokémon that’s going to 6-0 entire teams or anything, Mega Venusaur fits well on different structures that allow for more flexible team building than the more restricted, linear cores Amoonguss and other bulky Grass-Types used to find themselves on.

That being said, I think this placement is fair because it still takes up the Mega slot and sometimes can’t play offense and defense at the same time like it might want to. Strong Grass-Type competition is also a mixed bag for it, as while Grass/Poison typing tends to do well against non-Poison Grasses, the competition isn’t as strong as before which in turn leads to less of a need for Poison STAB in those matchups. The problem? Less of a need for Poison STAB, though it is still great for Fairies, also means the Grasses that are still used can switch in easier than before against incoming Leech Seeds. Poison STAB + Leech Seed is still a great combo overall in this metagame, and this coupled with Mega Venusaur’s other options leads me to recommend this Pokémon as a check to various prominent attackers such as Keldeo, Manaphy lacking Psychic, Tyranitar, and Mega Lopunny, among others I could mention.

Ithi · May 7, 2025

I gotta talk about my goats Keldeo and M-tar.

People are gonna hate me, but I gotta say it. M-tar is the answer we all wanted when we asked back in bw - "What if Chople tar was good?"

Seriously, this thing is like chople tar on steroids, it can not only eat any focus miss, check the terrifying moth, but this thing still hits for big damage, and only gets scarier when you throw spikes down. This mon really can do whatever it wants from dragon dance, to aoa and rocks. I love using this mon on ladder b/c it has so few bad match-ups b/c it anchors sand.

Keldeo, I gotta say it. I stanned this mon for years, and seeing it rise back up is heartwarming. Also seeing it feature on a wish-killer style semistall is always cool to see. I was wrong about m-venu, I didn't understand its game until I used an actually decent team with it. Hazards? They're not as problematic as we make it out to be, as venu really can pick and choose when it comes in vs these kinds of teams, but the status does hurt. I think the best way to describe m-venu is what we all thought m-latias was, but never reached that status b/c it just has too many issues as a glue.

Still sad about m-latias falling, but it eating literally any hazard kills it, at least m-venu never fears toxic.

mixnite · May 7, 2025

sluGGy said:
what i dont get is the rise. still seems as hard to justify as before: 2 of the 4 psychic megas have relatively good longevity, with one of them being able to contest venu's, and its still easy to chip.

credit to ImperialH for the photoshop

Ruffles · May 7, 2025

Nice posts everyone!

To keep it going, I want to talk about some interesting drops:

81. :Jellicent:

Jellicent (-33)

I think this one is interesting. It originally rose to power due to the omnipresence of Keldeo in the old meta. Now that Keldeo is back to being everywhere, I suspect it might rise again. However, it does feel easy to abuse with grass and dark types.

85. :Tangrowth:

Tangrowth (-47)

It just has to compete with so many good grass types including Amoonguss. I'd rather use Celebi even. I do think Rocky Helmet defensive is still viable thanks to Knock Off and Sleep Powder being good utility moves, but definitely doesn't feel great.

61. :Magnezone:

Magnezone (-37)

I've long been a proponent of Magnezone being a fraud. I think it's great on Stall, and a mu fish on everything else. With many teams running only steel Excadrill it feels useless. However I will say, 4th move Thunder Wave makes it a great pivot into Serperior.

56. :Altaria-Mega:

Altaria-Mega (-36)

This thing is always going to struggle in a steel heavy meta as this one. I mean, the #1 most viable mon is Mega Metagross, so yeah it's dire af.

40. :Latias-Mega:

Latias-Mega (-25)

I think Mega Latias is actually really good, it's just that the previous rank of #25 was kind of oversell. It struggles in a meta where Weavile and Tyranitar omnipresent while AV Bisharp is common. Nonetheless, very good mon especially on fat or spikes.

bdt2002 · May 7, 2025

RufflesPro said:
81. Jellicent (-33)

I think this one is interesting. It originally rose to power due to the omnipresence of Keldeo in the old meta. Now that Keldeo is back to being everywhere, I suspect it might rise again. However, it does feel easy to abuse with grass and dark types.

This is how the Pringles Guy felt when they changed the logo because of corporate minimalism. In all seriousness, though, Keldeo’s not the only factor at play here; I think the rise of Cofagrigus in this metagame as a utility spinblocker and Ghost-Type competition has hurt Jellicent quite a bit, and the presence of powerful Dark-Type offense and the overall weakening of Water-Type moves from BW/BW2 to XY/ORAS doesn’t help either. This ranking doesn’t surprise me one bit, unfortunately.

RufflesPro said:
61. Magnezone (-37)

I've long been a proponent of Magnezone being a fraud. I think it's great on Stall, and a mu fish on everything else. With many teams running only steel Excadrill it feels useless. However I will say, 4th move Thunder Wave makes it a great pivot into Serperior.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Well… kind of. When I first started experimenting with Gen 6 OU all those years ago- for context, I first played on Pokémon Showdown during early Gen 7 before joining the Forums a year or two later- I was pretty high on Magnezone (more specifically Magnet Pull) just because of how good Steel was as a Type in this format. Young me naively thought that having a Steel trapper would help alleviate much of my problems on offense, but in practice this Pokémon has only started feeling more and more like a noob trap over time. It’s decent on defensively oriented and various stall teams like RufflesPro said, but there’s multiple other ways to accomplish what Magnezone offers on other archetypes while being generally more reliable and consistent against the rest of the metagame. Much of the problem is that Magnezone can be exploitable after it’s done its job and end up not feeling like it’s worth the opportunity cost, especially with a Steel-Type selection this stacked for competition, power, and utility. Notably, Heatran can attempt to be a Steel trapper of its own with some well played Magma Storms. On the Electric side things aren’t much better- Rotom-Wash and Zapdos are both better defensive pivots, Thundurus-Incarnate and (in my opinion) the underrated Mega Manectric both offer better offensive support, and even Thundurus-Therian has a niche over it with even higher Special Attack and Volt Absorb.

Always! · May 7, 2025

I was so confused when I couldn't find Tangrowth in B+. I kept scrolling down and had to double check a few times when I couldn't find it in B or even B-. My fears were allayed when I didn't find it in C+ or C; obviously it was just forgotten on the list.

I nearly fell to my knees when I spotted it in C-, somehow under Ditto??? There is no world in which this Pokemon is less viable than stuff like Terrakion, Gengar, Gyarados, and Alakazam in the ranks above it, even relative to its role as a defensive Grass-type. I think comparisons with Amoonguss are far from apt; while Amoonguss has a more reliable sleep move and much better special bulk, it has a much tougher time against big metagame threats that struggle against Tangrowth. Tangrowth's ability to blanket check a lot of physically offensive threats feels really good in the metagame right now; its 4MSS can be spun as a positive in the sense that its movepool is so good you can choose what you want to completely counter, while still being a significant annoyance for everything else. Tangrowth's biggest weakness is probably its item reliance, especially given its propensity to want to switch into strong Knock Offs. Even so, it still has enough of a presence without its item to do its job during a game.

Sand Rush Excadrill, Mega-Metagross, Mega-Lopunny, and Mega-Gyarados are easy examples of Pokemon that need either a decent bit of luck or support to break through Tangrowth, while in the process probably taking about 50% of their HP as chip if they are able to do so. Unlike other contact-punishers like Garchomp, Tangrowth can also just switch out to nullify some of the damage taken, which lowers the likelihood of it being overloaded.

What's ironic about Tangrowth is that despite being a Grass-type, it's pretty mediocre at checking most Water-types. But I believe that it shares this property with Amoonguss; both get burned by Scald the same. Amoonguss has it a little better since it has Black Sludge as opposed to Tangrowth's Assault Vest, but Tangrowth's access to Knock Off, solid coverage, and a much more powerful STAB in Leaf Storm means that it can stay useful past the first turn where you Spore something as Amoonguss. As a nice bonus, you do still have infinitely better odds of trading vs. a boosted Manaphy in a pinch.

Tangrowth has a lot of utility options, some of which matches (or mostly matches) Amoonguss like Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, and Sludge Bomb, some of which it can use much better than Amoonguss like Worry Seed, and some of which that Amoonguss could only dream of like Knock Off and Brick Break. Obviously Amoonguss has its own major advantages like access to Clear Smog and Foul Play, but Tangrowth's options cannot be ignored.

The most standout advantage (in my opinion) that Pokemon like Mega-Venusaur or Amoonguss offer over Tangrowth is easily the ability to clear Toxic Spikes. This hurts Tangrowth's viability in comparison, but I believe it's clear that its aforementioned strengths still carve out a unique and relevant niche in the metagame. Having the option to choose its defensive profile between PDef with RH (or more rarely Leftovers or Eject Button) or SpD with AV is a pretty nice quality for a glue Pokemon.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this is a more accurate rank for the Vine Pokemon:

S+++ Rank
∞. :Tangrowth:

Tangrowth (+∞)

mixnite · May 25, 2025

i'll be posting VR videos i record with BluBirD here for any lurkers looking for explanations on why each pokemon is ranked the way it is.

i had alluded to this in the old thread so here it is;

fireanddream · May 30, 2025

Hi guys lurker here.

I just wanna offer some counter arguments on why the tier should not change in post gens. Like Yugioh old formats, the viability of teams/decks should and would change drastically years after. This is to be expected when gurus (schizos) all over world continue to toy with the formats.
However, any statistics-based tier-making system would be less and less accurate when the player base gets thinned out more and more with new releases. The "final" tiers may not be 100% representative of the viability of all the pokemon, but at least it was when we had a huge amount of matches going on that supported these statistics. If the tiers are allowed to shift periodically like back in the days, I fear they would one day become "what 50 of us were playing the last month" that is both unhealthy and pretty foreign for people who come back occasionally to old formats.

mixnite said:
i'll be posting VR videos i record with @BluBirD here for any lurkers looking for explanations on why each pokemon is ranked the way it is.

Please keep them coming. I love hearing people analyzing pokemon.

Ruffles said:
S+
1. Metagross-Mega

It should create its own tier, the OUBL

I hatched a shiny 5iv aerodactyl in XY recently and fell in love with the thing, both in the actual game and in competitive.
But man, every Metagross is a blood path.

mixnite · May 31, 2025

fireanddream said:
Please keep them coming. I love hearing people analyzing pokemon.

more coming soon

Ruffles · May 31, 2025

Choosing #100 and #99
I want to keep the VR at 100, but we have 99! I am also re-introducing Goodra (#99) as I think it might be better not ranked.

:mandibuzz:

I included mons that have legitimate tournament viability or usage:

Mandibuzz is a niche defogger.
Roserade a niche spiker and serperior check.
Rotom-Mow is arguably the 2nd best rotom in this tier and scarf has been used before.
Mamoswine is mamoswine.
Slowking is a niche regen mon.
Umbreon is a personal fav.
Magneton has a niche in being a less bulkier/powerful magnezone for more speed (outspeeding torn and weavile).
Togekiss is another niche defogger but its also a niche but strong stallbreaker and a cleric, also scarf isnt bad.
Kingdra is a strong mon on the very niche rain.
Klefki is a niche spiker w/ prankster twave/siwtcheroo
Feraligatr is a niche crawdaunt/azumarill knock off that has more speed
Hawlucha is ass tbh
Xatu is a niche hazard control option or screens setter
Goodra is a niche special pivot that walls Volcarona and Serperior

You can only vote for TWO pokemon max (with reasoning). If you suggest a pokemon not here, please provide a strong argument.

Tagging people for fun BluBirD Always! Avendesora Paprikaflow (these mons are so peak bro) c0mp (rain master)

HSK7 · May 31, 2025

Hawlucha can be a good sweeper behind screens, just need good items to make it work, i think in oras bulk up set with weakness policy is so under-rated, so i'll go with that.

Bored Pikachu · May 31, 2025

A Case for Goodra in ORAS OU: The Metagame’s Underrated Special Sponge

In a metagame defined by volatile offensive threats and tightly constructed defensive cores, Goodra occupies a criminally underutilized niche that merits recognition in the ORAS OU viability rankings. While often overshadowed by more conventional Dragon-types like Garchomp and Dragonite, Goodra offers a distinctive blend of special bulk, versatility, and matchup-specific utility that few Pokémon in the tier can replicate.

With a massive base 150 Special Defense, Goodra becomes one of the most resilient special walls available, especially when running an Assault Vest. This set allows it to comfortably absorb hits from a range of top-tier special attackers including Charizard-Y, Volcarona, Keldeo, Manaphy, Volcanion, and Thundurus—all of which place significant pressure on standard OU builds. Its unique ability to pivot into these threats without being passive makes it an invaluable glue for balance and bulky offense teams.

Goodra’s Sap Sipper ability adds an additional layer of defensive utility, granting it complete immunity to Grass-type moves. This enables it to act as one of the most reliable counters to Serperior, a notorious snowball threat capable of overwhelming unprepared teams with its Contrary-boosted Leaf Storms. Where most Dragons risk being overwhelmed or outsped, Goodra shuts Serperior down outright, denying its primary form of progress and forcing momentum in your favor.

Offensively, Goodra isn't just a wall—it’s a legitimate threat in its own right. With a solid base 110 Special Attack and a remarkably wide movepool, Goodra can tailor its coverage to pressure key targets. Access to Draco Meteor, Sludge Bomb, Flamethrower, Superpower, and Dragon Tail gives it the versatility to function as both a tank and a threat. Notably, Sludge Bomb enables it to break past Clefable, one of the tier’s most prominent special walls, and also carries a valuable 30% poison chance—offering passive chip that can wear down opposing defensive cores over time.

Perhaps most impressively, Goodra compresses roles in a way that few Pokémon in OU can. It offers special bulk, matchup-specific counterplay, and customizable offensive coverage, all in one slot. This kind of role compression is incredibly valuable in a tier where teams must account for a wide array of threats without becoming overly passive or inflexible.

Conclusion:While Goodra may not redefine the metagame, it answers several of its central questions. Its combination of unmatched special bulk, unique resistances, and adaptable offensive presence gives it a legitimate and consistent niche in ORAS OU. Far from a gimmick, Goodra is a metagame-relevant option that deserves formal placement on the viability rankings as a specialized yet potent answer to some of the format’s most oppressive special threats.

GOATED im_m0rtal. · May 31, 2025

Personally :
Slowking, roserade, goodra, togekiss, klefki and mandibuzz have the best shot here. I'd personally choose slowking followed by klefki to be ranked

Klefki is an insane screen setter + spiker, as well as valuable defogger, all of which are traits that are enjoyed in this gen. Its typing is great too.
Slowking's defensive attributes + access to toxic/twave + access to future sight make it a valuable pivot, and its typing helps it out a lot

Hyssou · May 31, 2025

Klefki

fireanddream · May 31, 2025

Klefki and Mamo.

I love Goodra. But for what's supposed to be a get outta jail card against a small set of pokemon, I feel like it doesn't have enough nastiness or offensive pressure to help you get momentum back. There's about nothing you can nonchalantly click with Goodra that doesn't carry huge risks. I used it awhile in hyper offense, for a bulky wall-y mon you have to go really spicy with it, and thus why I prefer the reliability of Klef and Mamo.

Resource ORAS OU Viability Rankings

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