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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Gen 5 Pokémon fans have ruined Gen 5 for me.
I LOVED Unova, and B2W2 is my second favorite Pokémon game aside from USUM, but the fans have killed my love for the region.
More specifically, the MFs who say that anything after Gen 5 is shit. Like, how TF can you say that the games after Gen 5 sucked when Gen 7 is right there?! Always thought Gen 7 was peak ever since I was 9 when the games came out.
Y'all are just acting like Genwunners. I remember seeing a Gen 5 fan call someone the r-slur (and a kid that hasn't played "real Pokémon") for liking Gen 7. That's how Genwunners treated Gen 5 fans, BUT WORSE. And they have NO self awareness.
Anything from Pokémon that has something barely Gen 5 related has their comments FILLED with Gen 5 glazers.
Like stfu BW isn't underrated anymore.
If anything, it's overrated, and even then that's an understatement
I LOVED Unova, and B2W2 is my second favorite Pokémon game aside from USUM, but the fans have killed my love for the region.
More specifically, the MFs who say that anything after Gen 5 is shit. Like, how TF can you say that the games after Gen 5 sucked when Gen 7 is right there?! Always thought Gen 7 was peak ever since I was 9 when the games came out.
Y'all are just acting like Genwunners. I remember seeing a Gen 5 fan call someone the r-slur (and a kid that hasn't played "real Pokémon") for liking Gen 7. That's how Genwunners treated Gen 5 fans, BUT WORSE. And they have NO self awareness.
Anything from Pokémon that has something barely Gen 5 related has their comments FILLED with Gen 5 glazers.
Like stfu BW isn't underrated anymore.
If anything, it's overrated, and even then that's an understatement
This isn't a unique phenomenon. The same thing happens with gen 4. Gen 5 has the worst of it right now (especially since it's the last 2d games, which gives easy ammunition to bash newer games with) but I expect we'll soon see a huge wave of gen 6 absolutists (probably off the back of Mega Evolution being so beloved)
Honestly I feel like Gen 6 and 7 absolutists will be in the same group of "ThweeDeehsers" since SM turns 10 next year.
Have you tried replaying a Gen 7 game? Lack of cutscene skipping kills them after the first playthrough magic wears off. Alola loves to murder its pacing and waste your time with frequent cutscenes that contain fancy camera angles slowing down textbox mashing.
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I did in 2021 and tbh, the dialogue and pacing really wasn't an issue for me (except at the beginning)
The cutscenes for SM/USUM are definetely a bit of a drag, but they still are really good games despite this (I consider them some of the top pokemon games).
And now to piss off everybody because I think SV are some of the better pokemon games :D
And now to piss off everybody because I think SV are some of the better pokemon games :D
I always love to answer to anyone who asks me to tell me my favourite / make a tier list of pokemon game something on the lines of:
"Last game released is S, everything else is bad and outdated"
Simply cause honestly, QoL > nostalgia. Sure I had fun playing RBY as a kid. I think i'd rather eat glue than play those games now with the slog and poorly aged design choices. (This applies to pretty much every pokemon game. If you are looking for good gameplay or anything remotely challenging, play something else, because Pokemon games aint it)
No, seriously, I am not sure how *anyone* can remotely enjoy the jank of older pokemon games (yes, including the 3ds era) without justifying it as nostalgia effect. Even the modern ones, as much as I love SV, playing through Scarlet to get Gouging Fire and Raging Bolt for my Violet pokedex was an absolute slog since without the novelty factor, it's just a big "unga bunga supereffective go brrr" while mashing through unvoiced cutscenes.
Idk, I think a lot of times when people talk about "QoL," they're talking about the removal of any and all friction whatsoever, which I don't think is always a good design goal.
Consequence is important in an interactive medium.
Consequence is important in an interactive medium.
As someone who hangs around in the postgame a lot, I don't end up thinking of QoL as always increasing for later games. Removing infinite TMs is a dev intended example of a drop, but I'd also put Emerald pretty far above its peers because of it having an easy item duplication glitch.
You say that as if these games have ever had any friction or challenge to begin with.
They never did. All pokemon games have always been dumb easy since these games at core were designed to be played and beatable by school children and never featured difficulty options (with the one exception in gen 5 and we know how that went).
I'm not sure if "this game has a gamebreaking glitch that makes it easier / more convenient" is supposed to be counted as a "positive" sir.
Also, context is important in understanding design decisions. They didn't remove "infinitely reusable TMs" because they felt like it. They did because SwSh and SV are designed as pseudo-liveservices which try to keep players engaged for longer, and having minor grinds is a key aspect of both live services and RPGs in general.
TMs are still virtually infinite, with the only difference you need to invest 5 mins of your time to get them (if even) instead of having them ready. While yes, obviously slightly less convenient, that came with pretty much every other QoL aimed at making the game more accessible to VGC to everyone, the addition of other items like Nature Mint, Ability Patches, Bottle Caps, etc, obtainable in basically same way of TMs (beat the shit out of raids).
Also (speaking of context), rather than "replace infinite TMs", they mixed what was TMs and Tutors. If you forgot, not everything was available via TM in gen 6, 7 and 8, a lot of things had to be either acquired via tutors (which required *battle facility grind*, much MUCH worse than stomping some raids with your lvl 100 legendary) or via TR which... were basically same as gen 9 TMs.
All in all, it's still a upgrade, of all the so called infinite TMs, large majority were trash you used once maybe in the story and never again, most of the actually good ones were either TRs in SwSh or tutor moves in USUM / ORAS, so honestly, nothing changed, you still need some level of grind to make endgame viable pokemon. Just in gen 9 it's infinitely easier.
Sure, Pokemon has largely been a "press the A button to win" game since 1996. It's also generally been a terribly optimized and programed franchise since the beginning as well, all of which is why I usually don't engage with the nostalgia-blinded "they ruined X" type of discourse whenever a new game drops. There's often not a lot of substance actually there.
But sometimes old-fashioned stuff has a place, or at least a specific appeal that isn't always sufficiently catered to. For example, I actually like having to account for HMs in the old games now. Originally I thought it was kind of annoying, and I just used 1 or 2 dedicated HM mules like everyone else did, but in more recent replays I've actually come to enjoy the process of scoping out a long-term team of 6 ahead of time, factoring in move slots for required HMs as another resource to manage, and spreading them around my team in such a way that the utility of both the moves and the Pokemon are maximized as much as possible. It's an extra layer of thought that adds value to an otherwise extremely simple game, much in the same way as other self-imposed house rules do (no legendaries, no master balls, nuzlockes, etc). And even though I did kind of appreciate being able to play through a version of Sinnoh in BDSP where that didn't have to be a factor for once, I don't view it as a linear "improvement." It's just different. I have similar feelings toward scaled EXP gains in modern games. On some level, it's nice to be able to bring a lv1 catch/hatch up to parity with the rest of the team quickly, but I also appreciate approaches where there's a limited amount of NPC trainer EXP to go around and a process of the player maximizing it for optimal benefit. I like to engage in long-term planning for stuff like that. And even though I would never argue against the changes made to make breeding perfect IVs more viable in modern games, I actually also appreciate the old ways as well because it allows me to feel like a god through RNG manipulation; that 's an itch that no modern game will scratch, even though I'd agree that it'd be stupid for any game designer to cater to that niche.
"Nostalgia" doesn't really drive my love of old games, because I'm more engaged in actually still playing old games--some of which are still new to me--than I am talking about my memories of old games. Whenever I hear people talk about games that "aged poorly," I often think "Yeah well maybe YOU aged poorly, huh. Ever think about that??"
I'd say the problem is worse now because now TMs are extremely bloated, going up to more than 200 of them (and a majority of them are also trash/limited to a few Pokemon), and they have to be crafted, even the ones that used to be free like the elemental punches in SWSH, or Draco Meteor in all games prior. Also, having to interact with the mechanics and region of Paldea is a way worse experience imo, raids are just a disaster and the standard set by SWSH wasn't even high, and don't even get me started with the BB quests. At least battling through the Battle Tower/Tree/etc for BP gave me that dopamine rush, but ALL of the grind here feels like busywork. (maybe that's why this region is the only one that has Larry in it
)
I'll bite the bait.
Why would I? I still enjoy playing pokemon games. The first time, they're charming, it's interesting to see the new story and look at the settings GF cook, as well as the new designs.
I also really enjoy dabbling into PvP and postgame activity (the few there are, anyway), expecially raids for which I really enjoy the creative process behind the sets.
Now, REPLAYING them? Hell no. Replayability is nonexistant, always was.
Ask VGC players what they thought about having to grind pointless battle facilities for BP and why they preferred to just edit their mons ;)At least battling through the Battle Tower/Tree/etc for BP gave me that dopamine rush, but ALL of the grind here feels like busywork. (maybe that's why this region is the only one that has Larry in it
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Respectfully, grinding for BP was a fucking nightmare. No thanks, I do not want to grind for that. Also, throughout your journey I do think you get a few free TRs (at least in the DLC I know you do). So like, they don't leave you completely helpless lol.I'd say the problem is worse now because now TMs are extremely bloated, going up to more than 200 of them (and a majority of them are also trash/limited to a few Pokemon), and they have to be crafted, even the ones that used to be free like the elemental punches in SWSH, or Draco Meteor in all games prior. Also, having to interact with the mechanics and region of Paldea is a way worse experience imo, raids are just a disaster and the standard set by SWSH wasn't even high, and don't even get me started with the BB quests. At least battling through the Battle Tower/Tree/etc for BP gave me that dopamine rush, but ALL of the grind here feels like busywork. (maybe that's why this region is the only one that has Larry in it
Ngl, the post-game/online has been a very weak part of the game for a minute, so I disagree.
I get where you're coming from now, go off.
They really gotta actually work on the VGC experience instead of just throwing random bones to it.
Especially when it comes to presentation. Hoping Champions delivers.
As much as I only vaguely remember, Unova was mostly hated for the creature designs at the time. The original games had a great story, even if the sequels downplayed that a bit. BW2, admittedly, has a lot of content to the point it feels kinda bloated. Calling anyone the r-slur or using "autist" as an insult is not okay though.
The world design wasn't received so well either.
There was definitely a sense that they were overcorrecting for Gen 4 HM bloat, and in the process made a map that felt extremely on-rails.
Gen 3 is in a weird position nowadays honestly regarding fandom spats. Other than "Hoenn confirmed" posting right before ORAS, it kinda deflated for talk outside romhacking. And even then for the latter for an obnoxiously long time it was for FRLG based hacks until decomps around 2019
It's just there. People neutrally like the games, and may cry about the loss of Battle Frontier, but the games themselves aren't as pushed for "2D Pokemon best" like Gen 2 (esp. HGSS), 4, and 5
Though the QoL hacks taking over is a little annoying
It's just there. People neutrally like the games, and may cry about the loss of Battle Frontier, but the games themselves aren't as pushed for "2D Pokemon best" like Gen 2 (esp. HGSS), 4, and 5
Many people put the start of the "Golden Age" at Emerald and FRLG.
Unrelated note: IDK why people see HGSS as Gen 2 solely bcuz it's Johto. It's like saying PLZA is Gen 6, BDSP and PLA are Gen 4, LPGE is Gen 1, ect.
Idk how hot this take is, but I'm sick of the grass/fire/water starter trio. Give me rock/flying/fighting or even psychic/fighting/dark
The lack of talk surrounding Gen 3 compared to 4 and 5 is probably because – outside of Abilities (which are important tbf) – it didn't really do much to shake up or expand the franchise like the latter two. It's kind of in an awkward transition period where you see the foundation for modern Pokémon taking shape (especially with the newfound narrative emphasis on the Box Legendaries) but not all the pieces are quite there yet.
Gen 4 introduced Wi-Fi trading/battling and the Physical/Special split, which were and still both huge. Gen 5 put a greater emphasis on the narrative and characters, which all the games after took at least some cue from (to varying degrees of success). Gen 5 is also when the 2D games peaked in their presentation, building on the noticeable shift brought about by Gen 4. Gen 3's games don't look bad, but they don't exactly stand out much compared to what else was on the GBA or even SNES.
This isn't to discredit Gen 3 at all. Its games obviously still hold up quite well, FRLG are probably the way to enjoy Kanto, and Hoenn is my personal favorite region. It's just not as interesting to talk about.
Gen 4 introduced Wi-Fi trading/battling and the Physical/Special split, which were and still both huge. Gen 5 put a greater emphasis on the narrative and characters, which all the games after took at least some cue from (to varying degrees of success). Gen 5 is also when the 2D games peaked in their presentation, building on the noticeable shift brought about by Gen 4. Gen 3's games don't look bad, but they don't exactly stand out much compared to what else was on the GBA or even SNES.
This isn't to discredit Gen 3 at all. Its games obviously still hold up quite well, FRLG are probably the way to enjoy Kanto, and Hoenn is my personal favorite region. It's just not as interesting to talk about.
At least Unova still has a lot of nooks and crannies to explore while you're on your journey. You're never required to have HMs in BW1 outside of that one instance of Cut, but the game constantly rewards you for having them on standby and poking around. You run into Cobalion (and, by extension, Virizion and Terrakion) this way, and there are a few totally optional routes you can visit before the credits. Even if the journey is on-rails you're not really forced to ride that train the entire time. (Ironically, that can involve taking a literal train to a detour lol.)
The starter trio exists as-is because Grass/Fire/Water is a very simple way to introduce people to the series's elemental rock-paper-scissors system. "Grass is burned by Fire, which is put out by Water, which is absorbed by Grass" is very easy to grasp. The other options are a lot more esoteric, especially when you get into matchups like Flying and Fighting or Psychic and Dark.
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The Grass/Fire/Water core is also a subtle nod to the art of making tea. You have the tea leaves for Grass, the flame or another heat source for Fire, and the boil for Water, all in a cycle that makes the tea drinkable. This cycle can also apple to any culture that focuses on a stable crop, an easy heat source, and access to clean fresh water.
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