Figured this would be the ideal place to post this, since there isn't much discussion on the topic on the forums or on Discord. As someone who builds a lot, I tend to spend a healthy amount of time considering which play styles are the most important to prepare for, which mons are the most important to game plan against, and which mons and styles are the best to use, and my opinions vary from season to season, with every time I take on a new challenge in the builder. I explicitly look for ways to break the mold of my old thinking or to find new territory to blaze on the periphery of my old favorites. One detail that has increasingly bothered me is the matter of the three moles:
Introduction:
Dugtrio is one of ADV's premier gatekeepers, rivaled maybe only by Gengar -- or ghost types in general!? More on this in a later post. -- in its ability to single-handedly dictate team-building praxis and punish teams that 'cheat' against it in the builder. I think it's a good idea to suspect test Dug and to have a serious discussion about whether the mon is really as healthy and balancing for the tier as people suggest it is. I would like to offer a brief history of my own personal perspective and experience of the mon in general; discuss the team styles it is best suited to, highlighting why I feel those styles are either largely broken or unnecessary; and share why I feel Dugtrio is the greatest restrictor of building in the whole tier, addressing common counterarguments to the claim that the tier might be healthier without Dugtrio.
A Brief History of Dugtrio (from my Perspective):
When I started playing mons competitively back in late 2020/early 2021, just before the start of SPL XII, I had no idea what I was doing. I had been watching BKC videos for a while and had just discovered ladder, when I ran into a player featured in a battle in one of Kevin's videos who introduced me into playing on Discord (it was
Zacpz). I joined Mushi League on his team and found myself trying to build my own homebrew, since no sample teams I found really worked for me, and quickly settled on mixed offense, because I enjoyed playing aggressively and cleaving holes in teams with strong special and mixed attackers. Naturally, because I had Zacpz on my team, I ended up using a healthy amount of ZapDug and getting easy wins BPing to Dug early on in games. My first disappointing loss was against Kael who loaded his own BP Dugtrio cheese into me in a tiebreaker. I lost one game because I was afraid to play my team the same way as I had in previous games, assuming that he would be well-prepared into me, as I had only been particularly successful with the one team, so I decided to play the early game straightforwardly. He went Bliss t1 as I wasted the momentum, if I recall correctly, and my poorly designed team, failing to secure the early Dug trap, combined with clumsy plays made it difficult for me to come back into the game, and I lost to Blissey. While I was incompetent, and my team likely as well -- these replays (on main) are lost to the sands of time, making it difficult for us to be sure of anything from that time period -- I think this experience is not uncommon to proponents of Dugtrio offense, so I think it's still worth mentioning.
Around the same time, SPL XII was ongoing, and I was watching as many games as possible, struggling to find meaning in any of the comps. This was the year that Forre usage exploded, and the arms race to bring the best tools for the Spikes war was launched; everyone had bought in to Spin, and now Spikes+Spin was the name of the game. What stood out to me at that point was that some people were still going directly to Blissey turn one against lead Zap, even at the highest level. In hindsight, this was a very different tier in ADV, with a lot of Spikeless balances, with lead Metagross, Suicune, Skarmory, Swampert, and Salamence more commonly seen, and creative builds of a kind we likely will not be seeing in SPL any time soon. Much love to
Altina for
his brilliant SPL infographic posts around those years. They helped me a lot. In any event, this tournament was the moment the ZapDug hype peaked, culminating in a particularly striking week 3 in which ZapDug won three games by trapping Blissey with relatively safe BPs at 6v6.
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(Credit to Eden and BKC for the concept)
The replays in question:
- A well-played trap, executed by a more cautious Endill on move 103 against Tamahome, effectively ending the game. The offense of this team is rather minimalistic and seems to revolve almost entirely around Dug trapping Blissey in the SkarmDug matchup.
- A more balanced game with a similar 6 in which Golden Sun's Starmie and Swampert were able to break through CyberOdin's defensive core with special breakers, which are usually limited to depending on Spikes in ADV. Bulky Dug featured here.
- A game McMeghan probably wanted to forget, in which another bulky Dug on another 6 from Marcop similar to those above made it difficult for him to hold up defensively against the special attackers.
In CI5, we also saw the rise (and fall) of the Zoomer team:
It follows a similar formula to the teams above, but rather than making use of special breakers, it relies on two special sweepers in Sub CM Jira and Off Cune to win games. In the following invitational, Triangles and Arctic loaded a version with Raikou>Tyranitar. Ironically, or perhaps not so much, it fell off and saw vir5in replace it as the premier Dugtrio team in the tier; in part because Breloom hates to face off against Claydol (and Aroma users).
ABR won CI5 with a similar style in his rotation, bringing Dugtrio every week -- a trend which has continued to the point of it being the most used mon in his most recent invitational win(?).
- vs Gefaerlicher Random (Felix), where Dugtrio is able to grab 2 KOs and take >60% of Cune's HP as well.
- vs Malekith, where Dugtrio didn't show up until the end.
- vs Tricking, he brought Dug twice. Once on offense (without Zap) and once on stall, in a match where he looked the most vulnerable all tournament. Also the only replays here where he used Tyranitar!
- In his first set against Marcop, he debuted a Perish trapping Jynx with Sub Dug, in a funny instance where Jynx did most of the legwork for Dugtrio.
- vs Clat, he used v5 -- a very different style of team and harbinger of what was to come. It lost against some timely misfortune, but the resilience of the team was on full display when coupled with brilliant piloting in what might have been his best set in terms of quality of play.
- vs Marcop, he used a similar but less consistent Dug stall in probably the most impossible match-up of the entire tournament. A well-played Dugtrio removed Snorlax and later Jirachi.
The game vs Marcop was the first where I was really impressed by someone's ability to completely and utterly dominate in the builder, and I think Dugtrio was what made it possible. In his strong CI4 run, he brought a healthy amount of Dug offense and stall, but more interestingly, in the money rounds of Callous Invitational where he brought SkarmDug and v5 into the spotlight. Kerts really popularized it with his Cune+Milo version of the team on the ladder alt 'Vir5in' (from where we get the name), and 'Zokuru stall' had been a sample team for years by that point, but it was at this moment that I feel the metagame shifted from one where big 5/beerlover was
the team to one where Sandless teams -- most notably, SkarmBliss -- were seriously weaponized (again).
The Sub Pass ZapDug teams fell off as DD Mence teams rose to feast on them, and Fruh Spikes (
) emerged to kick the Milo teams off their perch -- with help from a glut of other anti-stall stall and newer offenses, including Superman, SkarmMag, SkarmGar,
and funnily enough, ZapDug -- and apart from a Soulwind finals run in CI6, Sub Pass ZapDug hasn't been featured as a premier style in the tier. This, I believe, is owing in part to another ABR innovation, which was using Celebi+Blissey on so many of his teams that trading Dugtrio for one of the blobs meant conceding a Spike and losing to the other blob. Bringing two solid special checks to avoid ZapDug shenanigans became popular. In another post (a team dump), I mentioned my contribution to the trend from a more offensive aspect:
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Still, Dug stall found other ways, and ABR won JI with new takes on the archetype. Just a sampling from his finals vs BIHI, not to belabor the point or spend too much time on this section:
- A Dug Lead team which took over the ladder featuring Rest Lax and double blob, correcting for some of the problems of v5 in the special offense match-up. It also finds a way to improve Cune's fit on Dug Spikes and include Lax, in a unique hybridization of the offensive and defensive threats of Dugtrio team styles. We've seen Raikou slot over Lax here recently as well.
- A Smeargle Starmie special offense similar to the old suicide lead Starmie teams I showed above
- A Kingdra team following the same recipe. It was featured in McMeghan's loss against Baddummy in week one of SPL XVI as well.
- And an Asta-esque comp with dual trapping, weather clear, and a reverse sweeper in Sub Liechi Flail Gyara.
Most notable of the above list is probably the Dug lead team, which saw widespread use on the ladder and in tournament. A lot of squishy teams really appreciate Dugtrio's use in removing Tyranitar -- and in fact, I would argue that it is the preeminent use for Dugtrio for most teams, with exception to Beat Up Dug teams, which by and large struggle to handle +1/+1 Tyranitar when bringing Blissey Ice Beam(+Spikes) bulk at the cost of speed on Dug. The last team showcases some of the extraordinary versatility Dugtrio brings to offenses, allowing for more consistent weather clear in service of, for example, Reversal sweepers and bulky grounded set-up sweepers that hate sand. Cune, Lax, Gyara, and Raikou all hate sand and benefit from this kind of setup.
If you want a more detailed illustration of Dugtrio teams, you should probably take a look at more replays of ABR's from Jimvitational, or look for Arctic replays. I was also impressed with
River's game 1 bring into Caloom in week 3 of ADVPL, in which Vaporeon+Zapdos double Sub Pass to Dug proved far too much for v5 CM Jirachi to handle, but I'll leave it at that for now. Let it suffice to say that the era Sub Pass Zap to Beat Up Dug style that I learned the tier from has by and large come to pass in favor of other archetypes, though we still see them from time to time.
What Are Optimal Dugtrio Teams (In my Opinion) and Why Are They a Problem?
As illustrated above, there are various viable setups for Dugtrio. Generally speaking, the most common formulas in competitive play are SkarmDug (typically with Cune or Milo; always with Claydol (when not Starmie); and always with Bliss) and ZapDug.
Vapicuno's archetype guide makes mention of Dugtrio balances, which sometimes do not use Skarmory, and Milotic/Celebi balances. These teams are rarer as time passes, and I would like to acknowledge in particular the Cune versions of these teams as retaining some danger factor, but also as having been largely replaced by faster CuneDol teams, as highlighted in the replay between
Ojama and ABR in SPL XIII I shared above. There were also some Milo Spin balances that have been explored more recently. I remember Johnnyg2 was a fan of a Blissey Spikeless SubPass ZapDug with CB Tar, Milo, and Claydol. I would also like to mention M Dragon's favorite AeroDug builds. To my understanding, Dugtrio is used to remove grounded normal resists for Aero to more easily click Rock Slide and Double-Edge on those teams. The most famous version uses Zapdos and Gengar as well, and is quite solid, if irreverant towards certain (metal?) birds. But I would like to primarily focus on the most diverse and polarizing versions of Dugtrio teams for this post that have seen the most usage.
Vir5in:
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Everyone knows what this team is and what it does. We've all faced it at some point, and most of us have probably faced some difficulty beating it, even in a favorable and comfortable matchup. It has its strengths and weaknesses. I will try to describe them fairly and accurately as to highlight why I believe that this is the premier Dug Spikes play style.
With respect to ForreDol, SkarmStar, and whatever other Spikes+Spin combination is favored in a particular moment of time by a loud subset of the player base, v5 is the best SkarmDug concept in the tier to date, and it's largely unmatched in terms of its consistency, threat factor, and quality -- except perhaps by the ForreDol hybrid balance ABR used to win JI, which stands adjacent to v5 as a sibling style. Blissey is the best and most consistent special wall in the tier, and with the revival of CM sets on this style, it's become a more serious threat unto itself, but it typically wants Spikes -- and it is increasingly less common to see Blissey without Spikes (turn to CI5/SPL XII for fighter balances in their brief prime before largely disappearing; look Arctic for more recent examples of Blissey Spikeless). It has been said that SkarmBliss is, has been, and will forevermore be the most consistent and best style in the metagame, and while I have disagreed with this notion for most of my time playing Advance, I don't find the take objectionable and I never find myself thinking that SkarmBliss teams are lower quality than the teams competing to be the best in the meta. The synergy between the two is undeniable; with Skarmory tanking physical and Blissey special attacks and Skarm's Spikes offering immense floor-raising offense in return for Bliss's immense ceiling raising clerical and disruptive support, it is no wonder that we see them both together as often as we do. The sheer volume and robust quality of takes available to SkarmBliss set it apart and allow for it to remain competitive and spammable, with some tweaks, in any given metagame, and it is, at least on average, the most robust over time.
However, in order to extract the most value from Blissey, specific set-ups, including specific forms of Spikes control, are helpful. Blissey trades up slowly with the help of Spikes and thus appreciats the absence of Sand and support of Spin to weaponize its near endless HP for chances to grab multiple KOs. Of course, it cannot do this by itself -- it needs the help of other pivots, or walls, to soak up the physical attacks that it lures. Fortunately for Blissey, there is an amazing physical (and mixed) wall in Milotic, that eats Meteor Mashes, (unboosted) Rock Slides, neutral fighting and Flying attacks for days. The water type is neutral to all physical attacks and weak to only two special types; Grass and Electric. Fortunately for Milotic, Grass-type attacks are usually not threatening in Advance, even coming from Celebi, which lacks a powerful STAB. This allows Milo to sit on HP Grasses and Giga Drains to dole out Toxics and Surfs while Recovering. Only the rarely seen Venusaur can come in on Milo comfortably, but even then, once a mon has been Sleep sacked, it needs to rely on Razor Leaf crits to break through Milotic, which means Milo can even stay in to Recover to full. Raikou has seen a small resurgence in recent times in response to Bolt Beam Blissey being walled by Sub sets, and as a proponent of Jolteon, I am happy to report it is doing fine and well in the current meta as well, but I would not say that either of them are necessarily favored against the natural partner of the Skarmory/Blissey/Milotic core: Claydol. Claydol is the most robust Rapid Spinner in the tier, enjoying a strong defensive niche on these teams. With SpD investment, it can absorb the low Base Power special attacks Gengar has for it. More recently, Gar has been using Destiny Bond or SpD bulk with Giga Drain (and boom) to better deal with Gar, but the ease with which Gengar outplays Starmie and Forretress without (or sometimes even with) Suit support makes Dol the Spinner of choice for these teams, really getting the most out of the two Recover mons. The only problems with this core thus far is that it lacks in resistances and raw breaking power, so it can be overwhelmed by heavy attackers and set-up users. There is one hope, though; most of these Pokemon are grounded, so Spikes and powerful revenge killing punish them reasonably well. Enter: Dugtrio. CMers, bulky pixies, heavy tanks, fighters (with anti-Psychic coverage), Resting grounded set-up users, and other odd grounded special attackers, like Starmie and Endeavor Pert, which might threaten to destroy the passive five-mon core with a combination of decent bulk and raw power are all erased by Dugtrio.
This style depends a lot on a highly compressed defensive game plan in the first five slots with all of its heavy breaking taking place on the ground (between Spikes and Dugtrio lifting the floor of the offense immensely). You have a sixth slot to decompress, overlap, and ultimately solve many of the issues faced against birds (Skarm, Gar, Zap, Dol, Aero). There are options that offer compensation and change the match-up spread to counter whatever opponent or metagame you might be facing. Astamatitos used Suit Meta, which offers serious pressure and/or bulk into all of the floating threats. ABR introduced CB Meta to the style. He also used
Rest Talk Zapdos against Altina in SPL XIII week 7, in which Dugtrio revenge killed Altina's best breaker in the match-up, and he also used Sableye (including on an Aero version of the team) in order to shut down Snorlax and Spin in the mirror. There have been many tries, each conceding weaknesses of various significance in return for significant compensation. They continue to perform well against offensive teams, with Dugtrio eliminating critical grounded breakers, as seen in the game vs Altina, allowing the defensive core to click Recover freely. Interestingly, where it most struggles, in my opinion, is against opposing Skarmory teams with the bulk to avoid Dug trapping critical defensive/offensive pieces and the offensive pressure (from Spikes, Ghosts, Spin-blocking, CB mons, etc.) to give better than they get. Misdreavus Superman, SkarmMag, and SkarmTarAero Spikes are significant examples that immediately took root in response to v5 as a trend, but as I alluded to before, these teams were not able to maintain their spot on the throne for long enough to erase the potency of a great SkarmBliss team. The metagame ebbs and flows, and SkarmBliss remains near or at the top, and its versatility allows it to respond to changes in the meta to choose its ideal form for the moment.
v5 was never unbeatable, but it continues to be used in high leverage games to this day (
Fruhdazi vs Mayo, JI2 r4 g1, played yesterday;
McMeghan vs Baddummy, in the SPL XVI Finals tiebreaker). The upside of v5 is its ability to fit multiple recovery users which blot out a number of less forceful breakers and set-up users in the tier, and to slot Dugtrio to eliminate the remainder. That allows it to distinguish itself from other forms of SkarmBliss teams to maintain relevancy regardless of the moment, for the fact that it so adequately handles the majority of non-Spikes threats, weaponizing hard-to-beat Recover users better than any other style. Everyone should be prepared for Milo right now, so the usage rate of the team itself isn't necessarily the problem, but the fact that everyone should be preparing for it is kind of the problem, as many Wish Bliss+bulky attacker balances have to contend with the varied Spikes abusing threats of the tier, often struggling to prepare for both SkarmDug AND SkarmGar with the same team, and while it is possible to adapt, there has been a significant loss of metagame versatility with many Spikeless offenses rendered invalid by the sheer volume of Spikes builds they have to respond to.
Dugtrio Special Offense:
I gave examples of Dug spec off in the replays in the second section, and ZapDug isn't one team (style, or archetype) -- neither is Dugtrio special offense without Zap, for that matter -- so this section will be somewhat more fluid and less theoretical than the section above. When speaking about which style is the most annoying and match-up swing-y offense to face, Sub Pass Zap to Dugtrio teams has to be at the top of the list. Most special offenses really, really, really want Zapdos, Dugtrio, and Suicune on them, with the rare exception of some Raikou teams that prefer to slot End Pert (or Vaporeon) as their bulky water and focus on setting up Raikou -- and even those teams tend to slant mixed (as far as successful offenses go) and match-up divide by foregoing Dugtrio. I've shared a few of them in my dump, and find significantly more success running Raikou and Vaporeon with DD Mence; otherwise, I haven't a clue how to build a consistent Raikou (or Vaporeon) team. For the sake of brevity and comprehensiveness, I mention these alternatives only in passing and focus on Suicune here.
For me, the quintessential Suicune special offense 6 is the one
Ojama loaded into ABR in week 6 of SPL XIII with what I assume to be last Metagross or Jirachi.
In recent times, I might recommend Regirock or Registeel there as another lure to Celebi, Gengar, Tyranitar (with Steel, to Dug trap and clear weather), or Skarmory, for example. There are viable alternatives with Jynx, but the short explanation of the formula is that you'd like to fit Suicune with Dugtrio to provide security against (DD) Tar (among other grounded threats) and at some point clear weather OR to trap Blissey with Beat Up; with Claydol to provide Spin and some complementary backbone against Aero and DD Tar; with Zapdos, to chip down and manage opposing Zap and potentially clear weather, (occasionally) Baton Pass Agility, OR Sub Pass to Dug; with a steel type to help chip in against Aero and offer counterplay or pressure against Skarmory; and with a secondary special attacker which serves as a Tyranitar lure and Blissey beater. The secondary special attacker might be a utility option, like CM Pass Celebi; a set-up sweeper, like Raikou or Jirachi; or a suicide lead, like Jynx, Regice, or Alakazam -- a role also occasionally fulfilled by lead Zapdos! It could also be an offensive Starmie or Kingdra, which have been tried in Cune's place or beside it, and there are various (de-/re-)compressions of normal- and rock-resists, suicide leads, and what have you else (e.g. Spin Starmie>Dol) that allow for finding another free slot (e.g. for a Sand-weak Reversal sweeper), if you're feeling particularly creative.
But I want to highlight the team used by Ojama, because Cune is undoubtedly more consistent than Sub Pass Zap to Dug teams supporting Starmie, if only for the simple fact that Cune doesn't need Dugtrio to win games! Rather, it's the special breakers and cleaners Zapdos, Kingdra, and Starmie, who completely and utterly lack the ability to push through Blissey without serious consessions or mediocre opponent play (e.g. running physical coverage?! or Toxic on Zap, to which the counterplay is switching in on 0 hazards), and for that reason, we most frequently see Cune teams chosen and reused and in wins. Ultimately, Cune sees far more use as a special threat than the others on Spikeless teams for that reason, and it's really only the cheesy Sub Pass teams that can farm incoming Bliss for free wins against worse opponents. Dugtrio trapping Blissey is extremely annoying, and the only grounded counterplay for those teams is often using DD Tar.
On grounded teams where Tar the target of the trap, one might see Cele Pass, Zap Pass, Salac Hera, Skarmory, or DD Mence punish the trap, but we rarely see Cele Pass or Salac Hera (because good teams are hard to build vs SkarmGar and SkarmDug, among others); Zap Pass is hard to build well without Dug and exists largely to punish Dug (Skarm, and Aero), but is rare outside of fishing Blissey and limited by the lack of strong Spikeless options that are good into Dug; and while I am a proponent of DD Mence and have been attempting to make new sets for it work (Penguin Mence [Quake/Slide/Brick Break], DD/HP Flying/BB/Fire Blast, and other hybrid sets), it is hard to say that DD Mence is more than a B-tier threat at best as far as we have seen it in top-level tour play or that any DD Mence team can contend to be one of the best and most consistent in the tier for the amount of effort it takes to set up Mence and how little it gives back on a turn-by-turn basis (hopefully, these things change with my new sets). So the answer is to use Skarmory and bring back up SpD mons in most games, which brings me back to the same point I concluded the previous section with: grounded set-up mons and attackers lose to Dugtrio teams and/or struggle enough with the rest of the tier that Dugtrio teams push them over the edge, resulting in a tendency towards homogeneization and the embrace of primarily Skarmory team-styles (and whatever increasingly homogenous flavor of the month anti-meta team-style beats them; see: sometimes Cune teams, sometimes ZapDug) to find consistency. In fact, I think Sub Pass Zap to Beat Up Dug is a large part of the reason we don't see Blissey fighter balances (
like this one Linear brought into Endill, SPL XII w2), because Bliss can be removed and special attackers will go unchecked. Trapless Spikeless balance (and offense) is lost in the polarization created by Dug play styles.
I am proud of my Magneton+DD Mence Sandless bulky offenses and commend newer players who have added Calm Cune to the team as a patch for its weakness to mixed attackers, but I would argue that it struggles with (especially Zap and DD Tar) TSS and ZapDug all the same, if with some decent counterplay options, and that Magneton offense is not the most spammable archetype in a tier dominated by TSS with vicious special attackers.
Other styles:
For the sake of academic honesty, I would like to also mention other successful Dugtrio play styles that aren't as central to the issue, for one reason or another, but can contribute to the problem all the same.
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Cune has its place instead of Milo on these teams as well, but is less potent for lacking Recover and also losing to Beat Up Dug. Those teams are more beatable, since can can find itself overwhelmed when facing TSS, but that's also a product of an increasingly offensive metagame dominated by more offensive Skarm sets, Sand (DD[/CB] Tar), and Ghosts (Gar). It's nice with Roar+Spikes, and those teams are interactive. I've faced Sub Pass Rest Zap on this style -- see ABR's CI 5 finals g1 vs Marcop for another example of Sub Pass Zap to Dug on Spikes stall, without Milo (or waters in general) -- which is probably more dangerous.
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I've also seen Sub Pass Rest Zap on Forre Dug, but again, that style hates birds, and there's a reason why Sandless Blissey and Milo are preferred to Pert+Bliss under sand. There isn't much range to Forre Dug -- it's either Gar (credit to M Dragon) or Zap (a more recent innovation? I first noticed from Jester, iirc) in the last slot. Other birds can be considered, but I think you appreciate the ability of the bird to offer serious compensation against opposing Spin and Cune, so Gar>Zap>Aero makes sense to me.
AeroDug can fit Blissey or Meta in Gar's stead, and I think I've also seen M Dragon drop Aero for Starmie on this particular 6, but that was only him. This style kind of struggles against opposing floating special breakers, gives up Spikes, and allows DD (Rock Slide) Mence to farm for free, but it's surprisingly quite solid. I've seen Sub Pass Zap here as well, but most of the time, it runs a bulkier set. The team is relatively telegraphed, outside of that one tech I feel, and it can fall into the same annoying theoretical space as ZapDug special offense, to some extent, if Blissey gets boomed by Gar for a Dug trap or Sub trapped, but that's secondary, I think, since I believe the style aims to trap normal resists with Dugtrio for Aero. Dug traps Offensive Starmie and CMers, which Aero covers (bar Ada Aero against Timid Raikou), but significantly worse, for not guaranteeing the KO (which makes sacking to trap with Dug brainless).
There are other Dug balances that use Blissey and Milo or Suicune, but people usually elect for Skarmory in any 6th slot with flexibility. McMeghan might be the only exception, but there are a few players who still use stuff like Rest Lax (double or triple, with Suit and/or Mag) trap set ups. Those teams are also cheesy and have serious limitations, but fighters came and more or less went (bar Medi and, to a lesser extent, Hera, which are Duggable), so Wish+fighters are one less threat they have to fear. Not the most threatening play style for every player to face, but not invalidated or significantly worse vs the critical play styles of the tier.
Why Dugtrio is the (Second?) Most Restrictive Pokemon in the Builder (and Why That's Probably a Bad Thing)
I've explained why I think Dugtrio is so good in the context of its teams in the previous section, and alluded to archetypes we previously saw before these teams claimed the spotlight. Now I'll refine my point to Dugtrio as a Pokemon individually and address common rebuttals.
My argument rests on two points: I like how Skarmory centralizes the tier in general, and I think that the centralizing aspect of Spikes provides a good balance to the tier, and I think that Rest/Recover mons provide similar balance and centralization which I believe is healthy (except in the case of Rest Missy or Sableye, and perhaps in the very distant future, Rest Gengar), so I think Dugtrio being added to Spikes is the problem rather than Spikes being added to Dugtrio, and while Recover mons are sometimes difficult to beat, it's rather that their counterplay is severely limited when Dugtrio is used to remove their counterplay options and severely limit the possibilities for Spikeless trappless teams in the builder. The problem I have with these teams is Dugtrio, even if there are ultimately other (potentially) broken mons on those teams -- which, bar Sableye in very specific match-ups, isn't so obvious to me.
I suspect v5 rose in response to a lot of the Mix Mence Spikes of the time, as well as in response to Spikeless balances (culminating in their most dangerous form as fighter balances:
Star's,
TDK's, idk whose:
<-- This was dope. S/o whoever made this and JG2 for putting me on it) that aimed to feast on the slower SkarmTar teams characteristic of the moment, and this is probably where the trouble of the accelerating Spikes arms race began. Those teams relied on fighters, Lax, (CB) Meta, Cune, Defensive Starmie (or Claydol), and/or Recover (Wish, Leech Seed, etc.) CMers and Wish users (often Jirachi or Blissey, but sometimes Mence) to support their bulky attackers. Claydol in and of itself was a problem for some fighters, like Breloom, but it was because Dugtrio could remove the bulky attackers at will, or even Wish Jirachi (or Blissey), and easily grab multiple KOs per game that made it busted. Because Dugtrio, unlike other defensive mons, does not need to trade its HP to grab KOs (see t25 of
McMeghan vs Baddummy, at which point Baddummy loses his only physical breaker which would happen if Bliss happend to be faster regardless of how Baddummy played here). No other mon grabs KOs like it does, and it's ability to revenge kill even blocks opponents from grabbing and benefiting from KOs for fear of losing their revenge killer (see t30, t50 of
Mayo vs Conflict), accentuating and raising the heights the already ridiculous defensive capabilities of Recover mons to unbearable heights.
Starmie was a Spinner of choice on fighter balances to help against Skarm teams of the time. In tandem with Zap Pass to Beat Up Dug cheese, the rise of Gengar has made those teams nigh unplayable. It feels like we see more Gengar than ever in connection with the Spin Wars. It isn't necessarily the case that Dug (Spikes) styles by themselves delivered the killing blow to those teams, but the one-two punch of Dugtrio and Gengar (Ghost) teams -- at least -- are both complicit. The metagame is more Spikes centric than ever because Spikes teams have an overwhelming variety of (broken) options to choose from, made worse by the dual titans that are Gar and Dug. As for offenses, CMers, End Pert, Regirock, Registeel, DD and CB Tar, Metagross, fighters, and Off Star are easily removed, and if you aren't careful when building Spikeless to include Dug-specific counterplay, you might end up building something that is near 6-0'd by Dug+Spike, as I have several times when cooking up heat. I also believe that Zap Pass becomes so much more viable with an improvement in the quality of teams generating offense through grounded physical attackers, further increasing the number of viable options for offense, but if arguing that Zap Pass is healthy is a bridge too far, then maybe it's worth considering a change to stat (Speed) Pass after all, but for now, I'm pretty convinced that Sub Pass at least is good for variety.
CB Rock, DD Tar, CM 3/Sub Jira, End Salac Pert, Raikou (as a Zap pivot, but not really, because of Dugtrio), and DD Mence. Who wouldn't want to take this team out for a Spin (in a Dugless metagame)? Please don't tell me about how P2 is a great addition to these team styles.
As mentioned before, I aim to discuss Ghosts (or Gengar more specifically) more closely in another post, rather than dedicating so much time here, especially because I appreciate that Snorlax would be significantly improved in a tier without Gengar (especially with Dugtrio support -- this mon breaks damn near everything), but I think it is necessary to give at least this much context to why I feel Spikes teams and those with Skarmory in particular are squeezing the life out of other play styles that would otherwise be worth a try, including the legacy of Wish Bliss/Jira breaker Spin balance teams (with or without Cune).
Rebuttals
I've made all of my points on why I think Dugtrio has (in part) culled Spikeless play styles, including by limiting the number of viable Spikeless balances (RIP Yama) and Spikeless offenses, so now I'll address common (and uncommon, but compelling) rebuttals in this section.
"Shut up bro, L2p. Just build for Dug lmao"
If you've read what I wrote above, hopefully we can move past this. Feel free to DM or react me about how unhinged and dumb I am for writing this if this argument is still compelling to you. I love making new friends. (Just kidding, people usually respond in good faith, and it's all love.)
"(CM) Pixies and Raikou would be too much"
Aerodactyl does what Dug did to non-Wish Tect Jira, and people were using CB Mence more in the past -- which is admittedly not the best option because of Gengar/Ghosts punishing/making it difficult for Mence to click 2/4 options that it wants to click -- and bulkier offenses would be enabled to thrive, using Snorlax (insert Gengar refrain), bulkier Tyranitar, Wish Blissey, Heracross, and the accompanying DD Mence (and potentially Gyara) that limit Cele Pass and friends. I concede that Raikou improves, and I would argue that Cune teams become significantly more diverse and better for it, but Aero, (CM) Blissey, and bulky grounded attackers also improve when they don't have to fear Dug. I'm not arguing it's all a wash, but those same special offense teams have to come up with ways to deal with Claydol+Snorlax+Regirock/Blissey teams, even, when their best physical attacker in Dugtrio has been banned from the tier. I don't think spec off is broken once Dug has been removed ironically in part because it significantly weakens Gar on those teams. It might find a way to slot Mag somewhere more easily to amplify BP stuff, but I don't think it finds the slots to address all of its problems with bulkier teams or Aero overnight, and probably not in the significantly longer term. I discuss Zam in the next section, because it might be super annoying for Spikeless teams, but all things considered, that would still be an improvement on current levels of meta variety and health.
Defensive pixies, like Recover Celebi and Wish Tect Jirachi, do not become signficantly easier to slot on teams because they offer defensive utility against secondary threats -- except SpD sets vs Zapdos, but that doesn't change much either way because Zap will likely run more Sub Pass and (Rest?+)Roar+Spikes and status to compensate, and Aero, obviously. While Aero would probably become more important for some players, and that might see a rise in other strategies I struggle to predict (maybe a resurgence in Tect strats, Tect Skarm?), Jirachi and Celebi still have the problem of not being great checks to CM or certain special/mixed breakers with Fire (or Ice[+EQ]) coverage, but they do see a healthy boost on Spikeless balance where they might find a role.
"Special Offense would suck"
As I mentioned in the previous section, I think special offense becomes more diverse, including seeing a buff to Raikou (potentially Entei, lol) and more entrenched CMers, since all of the CMers would be significantly improved for not having to fear Dugtrio. Dug is a nuissance for skinnier Cune. Suicuide lead Cune teams -- like Italian offense -- would be worse, as well, and the fall off of Beat Up Dug could mean that we might see more Blissey Spikeless balances and bulky grounded offenses, but for as long as Skarmory (Swampert) and Tyranitar are on top, special offense will be an option to take on big 4 (adjacent) comps. All BL and above CMers are equipped with tools to 1v1 different Blissey sets. The only special offenses we lose are Offensive Starmie/Kingdra+Dugtrio teams, and even if you wanted to champion those, tour results and usage would correct you. As far as collateral damage goes, they are non-factors. It's possible that Zam becomes particularly good when it can feast on Bliss Spikeless, but that means it's also taking up a slot on spec off, and it needs dedicated support against Ttar and Twave Blissey. You get more toys with Zam and with Dug out of the picture.
Also, not really special offense in my definition, but maybe Lanturn becomes legit competition to Jolteon on Spikes stack lol.
"(Milotic) stall would suck" AKA
"Tyranitar would be OP"
This is likely a product of people being comfortable with Dug stall as is. My only response to that is that Skarm(Dol)Bliss remains robust, and SkarmDolMilo can succeed without Dugtrio, using Aero or finding other options for offense. It will be worse, granted, and it's possible that it becomes more of a fringe style than it already is, but I would ask that the reader appreciate the give and take to the tier. There are fewer match-ups that less skilled players can win from better ones if we take away Dug strategies, putting more power into the hands of the better player and allowing for so much more creativity, never mind that the only casualties here are v5 (or Cune; Forre alts) and Rest Lax cheese. These are a very narrow band of teams that traditionally have either not seen much success or diversity or have been phased out in recent years in favor of v5, which is again, a very narrow team that I would be comfortable accepting as a casualty for a better metagame. I honestly believe that there might be more room for Milotic on bulky hit-and-run balances (potentially even with CB mons AND Spikes) once Dug is out of the picture, and things would look a bit more like they did before 2021.
Maybe Flygon teams see less use for the simple fact that (DD) Ice Beam Tar and (Taunt?) Tox Tar become easier to get an advantage with, but again, the teams in question being lost are usually on the squishier side. Superman can (and should) viably run Aerodactyl for the same reasons mentioned in the CM rebuttal. You can also pair Gon with Jirachi to avoid overloading from Ice Beam Tar+Aero, and there are counterplay options. Skinnier and stronger DD Tar would certainly be annoying, but Pert and Gon could handle them, and in fact, Gon+Pert might be a more viable combination in a tier that is less aggressively Spikes-oriented with Bliss Spikeless and Spikeless offense being able to hold their own -- slowing down play in the former case and demanding more real bulk from opposing teams in the latter case.
Conclusion
In summary (for the people who skipped to the bottom and didn't read anything else), Dugtrio teams gatekeep Spikeless balance and stall extremely hard. Beat Up Dug traps Blissey on Spikeless balances quite easily and forces defensive teams to run two answers to Sub Pass Zap, and faster Dug wins by erasing offensive threats with calculated sacs and sometimes blocks KO's altogether with the threat of revenge killing the most important threat on an opponent's team. It is extremely polarizing and is polarized by other broken threats in the tier and the polarization cripples the viability of the very mons that benefit most from Dug outside of those Dug teams. We would probably have more diversity along the lines of what people were using pre-2021, reversing a significant amount of power creep that has shaped the meta in the last 5 years, including an increase in the viability of Spikeless styles (balanced and offensive) and grounded mons that would be kept in check in the same ways they always have been and potentially more. My only concern is that Gengar (and ghosts in general) remain a sinister threat to the health of the tier and preclude many of the changes I predicted in the previous two sections, but this issue would likely be much more bearable with new possibilities available to Spikeless styles which might be able to overload Gar with multiple avenues of attack (fighters, Lax, Spinners with Psychic, mixed attackers [to which Gar teams forego sturdy checks in favor of Gar]). I propose we consider suspect testing Dugtrio or at least having a conversation about the mon in general, because as it stands, things are becoming increasingly homogenous and centralized around the oppressive force that is Spikes. Anything that becomes (more) broken as a result of a Dug ban (potentially Agili Pass Zap) can be considered in due time.
If you've read this far, I would like to thank you for your consideration and diligence. I hope to have shared an interesting and refreshing discussion point with you and perhaps to stimulate your own creative thought. Feel free to share any (hopefully fully-formed) thoughts you might have here or on Discord in ADV Cord, and hopefully we can have a civil debate (even though you're wrong
).
