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Resource ORAS OU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Ruffles
- Start date
New Update
A- / #34 -> A- / #27
Next Topic: Stallbreakers
46.
Gardevoir-Mega
72.
Gengar
Both Mega Gardevoir and Gengar were brought in WCOP Semis and I think they are very interesting mons that are kind of slept on. Discuss their rank, do they deserve their rank? What about a rise?
A- / #34 -> A- / #27Next Topic: Stallbreakers
46.
Gardevoir-Mega72.
GengarBoth Mega Gardevoir and Gengar were brought in WCOP Semis and I think they are very interesting mons that are kind of slept on. Discuss their rank, do they deserve their rank? What about a rise?
No way gengar is the 72th best pokemon... right?
Push comes to shove it's still a 110 speed willo, taunt, trick or clear smog.
I was gonna say IF GENGAR IS C+ I'M C+ but then surrounded by Starmie, Terrakion and Tangrowth seems alright?
I guess maybe it's just some other hyper specific mon in some hyper specific meta that need to drop.
Push comes to shove it's still a 110 speed willo, taunt, trick or clear smog.
I was gonna say IF GENGAR IS C+ I'M C+ but then surrounded by Starmie, Terrakion and Tangrowth seems alright?
I guess maybe it's just some other hyper specific mon in some hyper specific meta that need to drop.
It is incredibly pursuit weak..., in the tier where both the ttars and weavile are elite, oh and bisharp is very good too
Voting for NO CHANGES
both are fine as is, have some usecases but in the end overshadowed by the pokemon before them.
both are fine as is, have some usecases but in the end overshadowed by the pokemon before them.
I think Gengar is a very situationnal pick, the fact that it completely walls gliscor (without koff) is hella interesting, but in the current metagame in which Weavile, Bisharp, Ttar, M-Alakazam or even M-Lopunny are omnipresent makes it barely usable while he got a true potential to clear games in some matchups like Ruffles did against ABRNew Update
Next Topic: Stallbreakers
46.
72.
Both Mega Gardevoir and Gengar were brought in WCOP Semis and I think they are very interesting mons that are kind of slept on. Discuss their rank, do they deserve their rank? What about a rise?
I would say that Gengar deserves no rise, I can't see it above C+ Tier, its current ranking is really fine for a mon that gets destroyed by half of offensive threats in ORAS current meta BUT by staying in this tier it also confirms that it can be a relevant pick for some scouts even if I find that it's risky to use a slot for Gengar !
Gengar is for sure a high risk vs. reward Mon. I'm not gonna completely rehash it because previous people have already covered points that I agree with. Gengar is fine where he stands I think.
As far as M-Garde, I guess take what I think with a grain of salt b/c I'm not super fluent w/ M-Garde. I don't think it should be B+ rated. I think it sits around B rating. In my experience it operates with the same efficiency as like MPin. When it has a good MU, gg go next. When it has a bad MU gg go next. Garde is powerful, but it does have clear weaknesses, most priority moves, after some chip any physical attackers that's faster than it can potentially rk it, focus blast missing on steel types. Can it overcome these problems, sure, but it needs some help getting by them and depending on what 6 your building you might have to lean into a lot of help which in my opinion devalues it a little.
As far as M-Garde, I guess take what I think with a grain of salt b/c I'm not super fluent w/ M-Garde. I don't think it should be B+ rated. I think it sits around B rating. In my experience it operates with the same efficiency as like MPin. When it has a good MU, gg go next. When it has a bad MU gg go next. Garde is powerful, but it does have clear weaknesses, most priority moves, after some chip any physical attackers that's faster than it can potentially rk it, focus blast missing on steel types. Can it overcome these problems, sure, but it needs some help getting by them and depending on what 6 your building you might have to lean into a lot of help which in my opinion devalues it a little.
This is basically what I think. Gengar is still solid but in a meta with as many powerful dark types as this one it has a lot of trouble doing what it does best (which is spamming extremely powerful shadow balls) and it should probably stay where it is. Mega Gardevoir is probably just below Mega Manetric in viability in my opinion as it is quite powerful but doesn't quite have the speed that Mega Manetric has (even if base 100 is still good) and for that reason it should be B.
However, while we are on the topic of B+ pokemon, I would like to say that I believe Blissey and maybe Hippowdon should move down to B as well. While Blissey does appreciate the passive healing that Chansey doesn't get access to, I don't think Blissey really has a niche over Chansey until gen 8 when heavy duty boots solve the hazard problem that both blobs have. I also just never see Blissey at all while I see Chansey quite often in comparison. As for Hippowdon, while I can see it being B+, I don't think it is that good of an alternative to Tyranitar as it could be. It definitely has more of a niche as a sand setter compared to Tyranitar than Blissey has as a special wall compared to Chansey, but it is very debatable in my opinion whether the funny hippo deserves to be in B+ or B.
I could see gengar moving up a tier but no higher than that tbh. Its destined to be an inconsistent pick with the trio of weavile, AV torn, and scarf tar everywhere, not to mention the many mons on offensive teams that outrun and threaten it. Still has a niche but it flaws make it hard to justify putting it any higher than low Bs.
When examining Mega Gardevoir, it's potential to put dents into teams is incredible. Combining that with having access to utility moves like Encore, Taunt, Wisp, etc., and affording to run bulkier spreads really lets Gardevoir shine in midgame fights. While my personal opinion would rank Gardevoir at around 34 in the A- tier, some of the mons in the B+ tier such as Kyurem-B and Mega Scizor are mon's that I'd also place in the A- tier, just above Gardevoir. I just see Gardevoir as a solid value mon for aggressive playstyles, and while lunar dance/healing wish is a valid option for a variety of offensive structures, placing Gardevoir just under Cresselia seems fair imo.
I second this. I’ve found that putting bulk and mega gardevoir does wonders for its overall consistency. HP investment helps make the most out of mega gard’s solid special bulk, and also helps patch up your usually heinous physical bulk to help stay out of pursuit range and potentially punish a weavile thinking it has a free trap. Its hardly left wanting for power either, even with no SpA investment its still hitting about as hard as an invested base 135. Taunt can also help overcome the loss in power aganist things like chansey, although will o wisp is also a great option on this set, chansey can still be played around by doubling with hazards up a few times to get it into psyshock 2HKO range
Changes
C+ / #72 -> B- / #71
B+ / #46 -> Unchanged
Although a minor raise, I think Gengar is actually surprisingly effective in some matchups and can be devestating. Of course, it can equally be terrible into certain other matchups or if Focus Blasts misses. Nonetheless, it is undoubtedly a B- mon similar to Hydreigon or Victini IMO.
New Topic - Physically Defensive Pivots
A-
29.
Landorus-Therian
30.
Slowbro
33.
Cresselia
B+
38.
Cofagrigus
42.
Hippowdon
B
48.
Mew
57.
Seismitoad
B-
64.
Reuniclus
65.
Alomomola
C+
76.
Tangrowth
C
82.
Jellicent
This will be up for long since there are many mons here. No need to discuss the mons only in the context of being physically defensive. For example, discuss mew as a whole - lead, stallbreaker, utility, offensive, etc.
Personally speaking, I think Cresselia has fell out of favor a little bit as the meta changed to adapt to it. Excadrill now being primarily rocks + spin feels so annoying to let in for free since it completely flips the hazard war. Furthermore, a random taunt from keldeo or serp completely shuts down cress from checking them
Lando-T I think was a little overhyped as well as I do not think its worth a spot in top 30, even though it is better than usual.
More from me later. For now, discuss. As promised, I brought Tangrowth again for further discussion
C+ / #72 -> B- / #71 B+ / #46 -> UnchangedAlthough a minor raise, I think Gengar is actually surprisingly effective in some matchups and can be devestating. Of course, it can equally be terrible into certain other matchups or if Focus Blasts misses. Nonetheless, it is undoubtedly a B- mon similar to Hydreigon or Victini IMO.
New Topic - Physically Defensive Pivots
A-
29.
Landorus-Therian30.
Slowbro33.
CresseliaB+
38.
Cofagrigus42.
HippowdonB
48.
Mew57.
SeismitoadB-
64.
Reuniclus65.
AlomomolaC+
76.
TangrowthC
82.
JellicentThis will be up for long since there are many mons here. No need to discuss the mons only in the context of being physically defensive. For example, discuss mew as a whole - lead, stallbreaker, utility, offensive, etc.
Personally speaking, I think Cresselia has fell out of favor a little bit as the meta changed to adapt to it. Excadrill now being primarily rocks + spin feels so annoying to let in for free since it completely flips the hazard war. Furthermore, a random taunt from keldeo or serp completely shuts down cress from checking them
Lando-T I think was a little overhyped as well as I do not think its worth a spot in top 30, even though it is better than usual.
More from me later. For now, discuss. As promised, I brought Tangrowth again for further discussion
they all look fine to be honest. the thing to discuss should probably be tangrowth. also, how is the fish ranked above tangrowth lol
Last time I laddered semi frequently Lando was like top 5 pokemon and Cres was non-factor... To this day I still use Lando-T, Clef and Chomp as the default 2p to gauge the damage a mon can do.
What happended to Cres? Ice beam lunar dance? Is it really two tiers above mew? Maybe I'll try to run a speedy one, otherwise it's just a volt turn into a free knock off.
Otherwise, rest of them look just fine.
What happended to Cres? Ice beam lunar dance? Is it really two tiers above mew? Maybe I'll try to run a speedy one, otherwise it's just a volt turn into a free knock off.
Otherwise, rest of them look just fine.
I think Lando could probably flow up to A rank. Routinely has top 10 tournament usage (i think #9 in SPL?) Super good role compression/utility--better than any of the above listed mons except for maybe Mew.
Seismitoad is ranked too high. Grass types are so good in the meta, bulky waters are everywhere, it's just not great into the meta right now. IMO it belongs in B- alongside Reun and Alom.
I'd make the argument for Jellicent in C+. Keldeo is still a top 10 mon in the tier, and it's a complete blanket check. Bonus points for spinblockers being pretty scant right now.
Seismitoad is ranked too high. Grass types are so good in the meta, bulky waters are everywhere, it's just not great into the meta right now. IMO it belongs in B- alongside Reun and Alom.
I'd make the argument for Jellicent in C+. Keldeo is still a top 10 mon in the tier, and it's a complete blanket check. Bonus points for spinblockers being pretty scant right now.
slowbro is for sure a step above every mon on that list imo
idk if anyone agrees but I think slowbro should be higher. I've been liking helmet recently, a solid pivot that can be played proactively thanks to regen and can use helmet to chip down most physical attackers (it's notably really good into the Power up Punch mega meta sets), and its typing even lets it help with some special guys like keldeo if you give it a little investment on that side. Being much harder to pursuit than most psychics is also nice.30.
this was literally posted as I was writing lmao
I am going to just go down the list with my thoughts on each Mon.
I understand landot has very tough competition with other mons as far as being a ground type, but its role compression is pretty unique still. It's typing plus intimidate and having a powerful eq with minimal investment (if any at all) still allow it to generate a notable amount of threat on the board. I don't think Landot should be moved in the VR like at it's worst its at the bottom of A-, of the ground types it's most often compared to it's already ranked behind them (which is justified I think).
Slowbro I think is fine where he's at in A-, big dog is a bulky water with regenerator. Those two things alone help Slowbro out a lot. I think he's pretty splashable too assuming you are not running another psychic type already. It's got access to whatever status you desire, and those future sight sets that have been popping up can be very nasty for teams if they are in a negative momentum position. Bro is a bulky water done well and is a productive member of society.
Cress is weird for me. Like Ruffles stated I think it's falling out of favor, I think as a psychic type Slowbro can do most of what cress provides and better aside from the obvious lunar dance. That being said just the way that lunar dance (and hwish) operate on offensive structures alone makes it an option for teams that want it. As far as lunar dance/hwish slot on a physdef pivot I think Cress is still the best one. Could it maybe be B+, probably, but there is probably a meta cycle somewhere that it'll come back with some revenge.
Cofag I think is fine where he's at. I think it's hard to justify bringing him unless you want a spin blocker due to the number of dark types running around. Mummy as an ability I think is super slept on. It allows you to 1v1 lop assuming you don't have too much chip against you already. Cofag in my experience is super hit or miss. Like the number of games I bring him and it just sits in the back all game waiting for it's window is kind of sad. Toxic spikes in this tier aren't super noteworthy in my opinion. Either the teams are super resilient vs them with steels, flyers, levitators, or the rare poison type, and nearly every Mon that haz clears is immune to them or has nat cure, or the team just plans on winning before they can be a factor. Often times I think a t spike weakness is either a result of a bad build or someone claiming an acceptable loss condition b/c they are not particularly common in use. Maybe I misuse this spooky coffin, I want to be wrong about him, but I think he could sit in B tier and still be pretty appropriately rated.
Hippo is honestly menacing. I think the only thing stopping hippo from being used more is that Ttar is better on offensive structures. I think hippo's usage would be through the roof if ttar didn't exist. This boy is fat, he checks a lot of common threats, even special threats like volc and ZAM, he sets up sand and rocks really freeing up excadrill to be free to do whatever he wants to do freely. A- for hippo is maybe a bit too nice especially given ground type competition. I think hippo is great it just has too much competition and people frequently overlook it because ttar and other grounds get more spotlight.
Mew is the jack of all trades master of none. When building I feel like I can find something that does what a mew could do but with more refinement is most cases. What mew offers I think over other mons is role compression. Mew can do like what two mons do with a little less refinement. It learns just about every move you could possibly think of in a competitive atmosphere bar like spin/spikes and can fit in some cool spots. My issue is that it's a psychic type and stacking weaknesses to dark feels like a death sentence sometimes. I don't have much else to say, I think mew could stay the same placement though.
Seismitoad being B- is wild. Get this man B rank, at least within the top 50. Physical pivot that due to it's typing also can do well into zap and rotom. Two very common pivots. And when I say do well into them. it's not fair. Yes it does possess an Achilles heal and dilly for recovery, but I think he's underused. Depending on how you wanna invest you can be a little shiesty with this big froggo
Reun? idk what this Mon is or does. I have seen it in less than 2 games in my entire time playing oras since I restarted back in December. I would guess it's usage speaks for it's ability to do work. This is absolutely a naive based bias, but does it really fit in B-?
I love wish fish. I can see why people don't like wish fish. Bulky water with Regen. As previously stated with Slowbro these are good things to have. Regenerator and Rocky helmet are two peas and a pod for sure. Unfortunately wish fish kind of is a momentum sucker and doesn't exert a ton of offensive pressure and is horribly frail specially. like all of it's ability to tank special hits is from it's HP, it's spdef is garbage. You know it's bad when keldeo is beating you down with resisted scalds. Ultimately I think its fine where it stands.
why is tang so low still. I know he got moved higher last time he was discussed. He's a dog. Unless ground types packing toxic or fire blast he will eventually kill them all. As I previously mentioned, regenerator with rocky helm is really good. Exca doesn't like spinning into tang 800 times and crying in a green grave because he failed at his job that he generally does better than other mons with the move rapid spin. like this thing takes a beating and follows up by giving a beating back. I will go hunt down a pile of calcs if I need to.
Jellicent is cool. I like the jellyfish. It sadly has issues. can you over come those issues; yes, do you get to play into the true strength of the Mon; not really. you have to spend every possible resource available to you to perform its role. It's funny that it 100% walls keldeo and is a spinblocker, but to fully act as a spinblocker you have to run balloon or else drill just beats you anyways. Its got a bunch of really unique things going on about it, and it offers some neat roll compression, but it's hard to just drop it in on any team. IDK c or C+ seems good
I was super tired when I finished writing this. I can add more posts later if y'all got questions about specific points, if the grammar is absolutely irrefutably terrible. Please tell me or give a poopoo face react.
I understand landot has very tough competition with other mons as far as being a ground type, but its role compression is pretty unique still. It's typing plus intimidate and having a powerful eq with minimal investment (if any at all) still allow it to generate a notable amount of threat on the board. I don't think Landot should be moved in the VR like at it's worst its at the bottom of A-, of the ground types it's most often compared to it's already ranked behind them (which is justified I think).
Slowbro I think is fine where he's at in A-, big dog is a bulky water with regenerator. Those two things alone help Slowbro out a lot. I think he's pretty splashable too assuming you are not running another psychic type already. It's got access to whatever status you desire, and those future sight sets that have been popping up can be very nasty for teams if they are in a negative momentum position. Bro is a bulky water done well and is a productive member of society.
Cress is weird for me. Like Ruffles stated I think it's falling out of favor, I think as a psychic type Slowbro can do most of what cress provides and better aside from the obvious lunar dance. That being said just the way that lunar dance (and hwish) operate on offensive structures alone makes it an option for teams that want it. As far as lunar dance/hwish slot on a physdef pivot I think Cress is still the best one. Could it maybe be B+, probably, but there is probably a meta cycle somewhere that it'll come back with some revenge.
Cofag I think is fine where he's at. I think it's hard to justify bringing him unless you want a spin blocker due to the number of dark types running around. Mummy as an ability I think is super slept on. It allows you to 1v1 lop assuming you don't have too much chip against you already. Cofag in my experience is super hit or miss. Like the number of games I bring him and it just sits in the back all game waiting for it's window is kind of sad. Toxic spikes in this tier aren't super noteworthy in my opinion. Either the teams are super resilient vs them with steels, flyers, levitators, or the rare poison type, and nearly every Mon that haz clears is immune to them or has nat cure, or the team just plans on winning before they can be a factor. Often times I think a t spike weakness is either a result of a bad build or someone claiming an acceptable loss condition b/c they are not particularly common in use. Maybe I misuse this spooky coffin, I want to be wrong about him, but I think he could sit in B tier and still be pretty appropriately rated.
Hippo is honestly menacing. I think the only thing stopping hippo from being used more is that Ttar is better on offensive structures. I think hippo's usage would be through the roof if ttar didn't exist. This boy is fat, he checks a lot of common threats, even special threats like volc and ZAM, he sets up sand and rocks really freeing up excadrill to be free to do whatever he wants to do freely. A- for hippo is maybe a bit too nice especially given ground type competition. I think hippo is great it just has too much competition and people frequently overlook it because ttar and other grounds get more spotlight.
Mew is the jack of all trades master of none. When building I feel like I can find something that does what a mew could do but with more refinement is most cases. What mew offers I think over other mons is role compression. Mew can do like what two mons do with a little less refinement. It learns just about every move you could possibly think of in a competitive atmosphere bar like spin/spikes and can fit in some cool spots. My issue is that it's a psychic type and stacking weaknesses to dark feels like a death sentence sometimes. I don't have much else to say, I think mew could stay the same placement though.
Seismitoad being B- is wild. Get this man B rank, at least within the top 50. Physical pivot that due to it's typing also can do well into zap and rotom. Two very common pivots. And when I say do well into them. it's not fair. Yes it does possess an Achilles heal and dilly for recovery, but I think he's underused. Depending on how you wanna invest you can be a little shiesty with this big froggo
Reun? idk what this Mon is or does. I have seen it in less than 2 games in my entire time playing oras since I restarted back in December. I would guess it's usage speaks for it's ability to do work. This is absolutely a naive based bias, but does it really fit in B-?
I love wish fish. I can see why people don't like wish fish. Bulky water with Regen. As previously stated with Slowbro these are good things to have. Regenerator and Rocky helmet are two peas and a pod for sure. Unfortunately wish fish kind of is a momentum sucker and doesn't exert a ton of offensive pressure and is horribly frail specially. like all of it's ability to tank special hits is from it's HP, it's spdef is garbage. You know it's bad when keldeo is beating you down with resisted scalds. Ultimately I think its fine where it stands.
why is tang so low still. I know he got moved higher last time he was discussed. He's a dog. Unless ground types packing toxic or fire blast he will eventually kill them all. As I previously mentioned, regenerator with rocky helm is really good. Exca doesn't like spinning into tang 800 times and crying in a green grave because he failed at his job that he generally does better than other mons with the move rapid spin. like this thing takes a beating and follows up by giving a beating back. I will go hunt down a pile of calcs if I need to.
Jellicent is cool. I like the jellyfish. It sadly has issues. can you over come those issues; yes, do you get to play into the true strength of the Mon; not really. you have to spend every possible resource available to you to perform its role. It's funny that it 100% walls keldeo and is a spinblocker, but to fully act as a spinblocker you have to run balloon or else drill just beats you anyways. Its got a bunch of really unique things going on about it, and it offers some neat roll compression, but it's hard to just drop it in on any team. IDK c or C+ seems good
I was super tired when I finished writing this. I can add more posts later if y'all got questions about specific points, if the grammar is absolutely irrefutably terrible. Please tell me or give a poopoo face react.
Personal thoughts:
Hippo should rise to A-. It's very versatile in both physdef/spd sets and an impeccable wall. The 4th move being toxic/ww/rock slide all being pretty good but situational makes playing against it really annoying.
Slowbro should rise to near top of A-. It's coming back again mainly due to eject button, calm mind sets being decent again, and fsight being cool. Colbur is also just very solid.
Cresselia is jut not an A- mon. It's still very good but it belongs in B+. The meta has adapted and so many mons have started teching taunt, substitute, and so on. Not to mention how passive it is vs. excadrill or fat teams.
Lando should be bottom of A- or top of B+. It feels extremely good into drill teams but extremely bad into zapdos/thund teams, which continue to rise.
Tang should rise to B-
Alomomola should be top of B-. It's consistent and versatile (access to mirror coat etc.) but it's 6-0'd by the move substitute, so shouldn't be B
Reuniclus should drop to C+. Its great in some mus (metagross, medicham, lopunny), but it's omega ass into strong dark types, which are like 70% usage combined.
Mew should rise to B+. It's extremely versatile and the best lead on HO
The others
Cofa is really good but I can't see it in A-. Seismitoed also good but don't see it rising. Jellicent should stay C
Hippo should rise to A-. It's very versatile in both physdef/spd sets and an impeccable wall. The 4th move being toxic/ww/rock slide all being pretty good but situational makes playing against it really annoying. Slowbro should rise to near top of A-. It's coming back again mainly due to eject button, calm mind sets being decent again, and fsight being cool. Colbur is also just very solid. Cresselia is jut not an A- mon. It's still very good but it belongs in B+. The meta has adapted and so many mons have started teching taunt, substitute, and so on. Not to mention how passive it is vs. excadrill or fat teams. Lando should be bottom of A- or top of B+. It feels extremely good into drill teams but extremely bad into zapdos/thund teams, which continue to rise. Tang should rise to B- Alomomola should be top of B-. It's consistent and versatile (access to mirror coat etc.) but it's 6-0'd by the move substitute, so shouldn't be B Reuniclus should drop to C+. Its great in some mus (metagross, medicham, lopunny), but it's omega ass into strong dark types, which are like 70% usage combined. Mew should rise to B+. It's extremely versatile and the best lead on HOThe others
Cofa is really good but I can't see it in A-. Seismitoed also good but don't see it rising. Jellicent should stay C