Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[Rekka's Backend]

zapkinglu

I'm sorry but everytime I see this shit I start to see red. It's like a boogie man that was so overblown and traumatized people despite it lasting like 3 seconds. I don't care, I don't care, I don't care. Overblown, overhyped, and a basis shakier than a grandma on her last legs. I'd sacrifice Ogerpon on the alter and face a thousand Tinglu's before I'd let that smug mask wearing bastard ruin my life. Which even then, there's so many counters to Tinglu structures that playing around them can become easier than not.

The only thing I have to say as a serious note is that more and more I wish Uturn got turned normal and that the contact burns got their contact movies removed in exchange. Some days I wish I could just mash knock, then click popbomb without one of those oversized chickens ruining my poor mouse.

 

[Welcome to mars]

Yeah i’ve it seen mentioned time and time again but theres not much variety in arguments that mention it, the first example of “ZapKingLu” was a powerful core that emerged late into the dlc 1 metagame which if you were there, you’d know was pretty bad after all the bans, but “ZapKingLu” is not a cataclysmic event that will inevitably purge OU in chaos after we ban an offensive mon (strange that it still hasn’t overcentralised the meta after we banned numerous other offensive mons?) and its certainly not something you can just point to as an argument on why a certain mon shouldn’t be banned (which doesn’t address the unhealthy effects that mon may be having on the meta rn) or use as a euphemism for balance that we should think will suddenly become broken if a certain mon is banned, especially since normally when you mention “zapkinglu”, people are going to think you’re specifically referring to “Zapdos, Galarian Slowking and Ting-Lu” since thats what the name stands for.

 

[Hon07rial]

Why is Sinistcha not used much? It is such an amazing spin blocker with a specially good matchup into Tusk and Treads.

 

[Heatranator]

Why is Sinistcha not used much? It is such an amazing spin blocker with a specially good matchup into Tusk and Treads.

While Sinistcha does better into Tusk/Treads, the issue is that it heavily competes with another Ghost type spinblocker.

Pecharunt can do the checking waterpon thing as well, can take on tusk or treads with the right ev spread (bulky for treads and fast for tusk) and is in general able to stonewall a lot of physical threats while generating progress with parting shot. Maybe sinistcha has some niche that is underexplored (it takes any non ice spinner move from tusk quite easily), but as of rn, pecharunt is really annoying for it to compete with.

 

[Magcargo]

Why is Sinistcha not used much? It is such an amazing spin blocker with a specially good matchup into Tusk and Treads.

Mostly because Strength Sap is easy to fuck up with techs like Sub or Magic Bounce / Good As Gold + Heatran and Tornadus being solid checks. That said its still a great Pokémon on all kinds of structures and I think its role as a ground/ Water resist that's bulky still gives it a strong niche. I think it can be explored more with random Tera Blast sets for some of its bad MUs like Gambit

 

[JackRG]

Why is Sinistcha not used much? It is such an amazing spin blocker with a specially good matchup into Tusk and Treads.

I think the #1 issue for it is the usage of knock off on wellspring being much, much higher than it used to be. When knock was a rarer option sinistcha was actually one of the more reliable wellspring checks but nowaday's with knock being featured on roughly half of sets its not really reliable anymore. That said it still has many good points, such as being hell for any team that relies on tusk or treads to spin, and of course it still punishes teams that rely on non knock Woger to break. It just fell off due to no longer boasting the main trait that made it a fairly splashable mon in the first place, especially since physdef hydrapple can check woger fairly reliably no matter what it has, so many have begun to naturally graviate towards it as the premier Woger check / bulky grass in the tier.

 

[CooolTrainer]

The ban of Roaring Moon has let a lot of less honest cheesers like Manaphy, Ceruledge, Hoopa-U and the like getting fully unleashed, while giving teams one less soft check to other miscellaneous threats like Gambit, Ghold, and Ogerpon-W. The amount of offense seems to have only increased with its ban, which makes sense since Roaring Moon was a game ending piece against offensive structures. It was strong against balance as well, but I feel that the new threats that have risen in its place are more difficult for these more defensive structures to handle compared to Moon.

Any solution? It seems like we’re all out of bans (not that any of those Pokemon are bannable).

 

[UltraSword]

The ban of Roaring Moon has let a lot of less honest cheesers like Manaphy, Ceruledge, Hoopa-U and the like getting fully unleashed, while giving teams one less soft check to other miscellaneous threats like Gambit, Ghold, and Ogerpon-W. The amount of offense seems to have only increased with its ban, which makes sense since Roaring Moon was a game ending piece against offensive structures. It was strong against balance as well, but I feel that the new threats that have risen in its place are more difficult for these more defensive structures to handle compared to Moon.

To be honest I have the opposite opinion. I personally do/did not think Roaring Moon was banworthy. I believe if we waited a month or 2 after the time the suspect took place we would have better understood whether Roaring Moon was broken or if the tera fairy set or other similarly common sets were not as problematic as we thought. However, while I do not believe Roaring Moon shouldn't have banned, I think the meta is better post Moon. With the exception of Ceruledge, most "cheesers" haven't improved much since the Roaring Moon ban and many of the things Roaring Moon used to check are still limited by other things in the meta (Dragonite my beloved). While I don't believe Roaring Moon was broken, it wasn't a necessary part of the SV OU meta compared to pokemon like Gholdengo and Ting Lu.

 

[Achohermano]

To be honest I have the opposite opinion. I personally do/did not think Roaring Moon was banworthy. I believe if we waited a month or 2 after the time the suspect took place we would have better understood whether Roaring Moon was broken or if the tera fairy set or other similarly common sets were not as problematic as we thought. However, while I do not believe Roaring Moon shouldn't have banned, I think the meta is better post Moon. With the exception of Ceruledge, most "cheesers" haven't improved much since the Roaring Moon ban and many of the things Roaring Moon used to check are still limited by other things in the meta (Dragonite my beloved). While I don't believe Roaring Moon was broken, it wasn't a necessary part of the SV OU meta compared to pokemon like Gholdengo and Ting Lu.

Separating cheesers from the biggest cheeser itself is quite funny honestly.

Like, isn't a Pokémon with 6-7 viable different Teras, Encore, recovery, set up and every coverage ever the most cheesy thing ever? XD

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Separating cheesers from the biggest cheeser itself is quite funny honestly.

Like, isn't a Pokémon with 6-7 viable different Teras, Encore, recovery, set up and every coverage ever the most cheesy thing ever? XD

depends on what you think is "cheese", i guess. personally i think the only cheesy part of dragonite is how easy it is to set up with multiscale. i don't think the fact that it has coverage or multiple tera types or encore is cheesy at all, that's just the sort of thing you gotta watch out for when you're fighting against one of the five billion setup goons we have here. the ridiculous tankiness making it so easy to set up multiple dragon dances, especially with recovery, does have a definite cheesy flavor to it, but i wouldn't call it the cheesiest thing in the meta

of course there is the kind of inherent background cheesiness of tera blast and tera in general, but i can't really blame dragonite for that, it's just the way this gen is

 

[FayaWizard]

Hey everyone, our newest set of OU analyses are open for reservation! This slate is focused on newer sets for higher-ranked Pokemon like Deoxys-Speed and Tornadus-Therian, as well as updating some of the older sets. If you want to write an analysis, place a reservation in this thread. If you're interested in quality checking them, feel free to reach out to C&C staff!