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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
The addition of the movies Darkrai theme makes this way better the expected.
But as for the current topic, Yeah I do not see Triple Arrow be distributed until they make a second archer pokemon, and likely one that has either ok speed or ok attack, not both. Torch Song will live and (un?)die on Skeledirge unless they nerf it.
I think if you had told kid me that the silly painting beagle would be a competitive menace it would've been the funniest thing ever.
every once and a while you see some random fanpost of a smeargle evolution and the comments are just filled with comp players from both formats just screaming "NOOOOO NO NO NO NO"
I think this is two separate complaints, Signature Moves should remain signature, and movepools need to be more restricted.
On the first, part of the issue is that GF doesn't seem to value Signature Moves as a thing. It feels like they make something unique for mons because they are expected to have something unique, but there's no inherent value to that thing from GF's perspective, so they don't hesitate to spread it around in later games. Which...somewhat misses the point IMO. Giving every mon a unique move or ability makes all of those cool unique ideas blur together, and then they don't remain unique, so even if the mon started off with a really cool unique thing, it's watered down by the time the next gen rolls around. And I get part of it, they don't care as much about preserving old mons when they can sell you new ones, but that feels short-sighted. Things would be better long-term if fans felt that GF cared about the mons they were producing continuing to feel the same way they did when they were new. And signature moves would feel more special if everything down to Spidops didn't have one. Again, I get why, but it's shortsighted.
The other point, movepools, is worthy of multiple threads. Suffice to say that I think every mon should have access to reliable STAB of their type off their better attack stat unless there is a good reason not to, and I think that GF is torn heavily between "every move a mon knows should have a flavor justification" and "make things have lots of good options", and that leads to a situation where certain mons and types have very obvious gaps while others get everything they could ever desire. Making signature moves(hey we made a physical Electric Legendary, we better give it a signature move so it doesn't have to use Wild Charge) is a bandage for that problem, and redistributing signature moves after that makes sense, but it's a very slow method of fixing the problem.
It was the signature move of Pineco and Forretress in GS (Smeargle notwithstanding), Cloyster and Qwilfish only got the move in Crystal.
speaking of signature moves, I think the localizers do a decent job at making moves sound cool if they are stilted sounding in literally translated japanese. (ignore low kick/low sweep, ultra ball/beast ball type stuff)
however sometimes they make a cool name as a replacement for the sickest anime stuff ever. Ceaseless Edge is still really cool, don't get me wrong, but Secret Sword - Thousand Waves goes really hard. Z Moves already exist so the character limit excuse doesn't work anymore afaik.
however sometimes they make a cool name as a replacement for the sickest anime stuff ever. Ceaseless Edge is still really cool, don't get me wrong, but Secret Sword - Thousand Waves goes really hard. Z Moves already exist so the character limit excuse doesn't work anymore afaik.
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I think the problem with calling it Secret Sword - Thousand Waves would be that it'd be confusing, given how both Secret Sword and Thousand Waves are already move names in english. While the literal translations of the moves are both the same in japanese, they seem to use different lettering (idk exactly how to phrase this, but the move Ceaseless Edge is very clearly written in differently than just a fusion of Secret Sword and Thousand Waves) than Ceaseless Edge, so I don't think that'd be a major issue over there
Also, while the Character Limit might not be a good excuse, I do think they don't want to go too overboard with move name length both for the sake of having to use those moves in the anime, and for commentating things like worlds. Z-Moves can get away with it because they're a once per match super move with a long animation to go through to use them, but a move like Ceaseless Edge could be used constantly and if a character had to command it every time they used it in the anime that'd get old real fast
Also, while the Character Limit might not be a good excuse, I do think they don't want to go too overboard with move name length both for the sake of having to use those moves in the anime, and for commentating things like worlds. Z-Moves can get away with it because they're a once per match super move with a long animation to go through to use them, but a move like Ceaseless Edge could be used constantly and if a character had to command it every time they used it in the anime that'd get old real fast
This might be a very specific one based on me not knowing the Japanese words in proper detail, but the other thing for me is that the JP name for Ceaseless Edge doesn't really sound like a Dark (or "Evil") Type move?
Secret Sword obviously has the fighting association, but "Thousand Waves" also makes me think of Water (given Samurott's typing) or even something like Flying for Air Blades. "Ceaseless Edge" besides the "edgy" joke about the name, sounds fitting for an underhanded type of attack, bringing to mind an attack that continues well beyond the point where the damage is necessary (which in a roundabout way does make sense for the Splinters/Spikes effect).
Secret Sword obviously has the fighting association, but "Thousand Waves" also makes me think of Water (given Samurott's typing) or even something like Flying for Air Blades. "Ceaseless Edge" besides the "edgy" joke about the name, sounds fitting for an underhanded type of attack, bringing to mind an attack that continues well beyond the point where the damage is necessary (which in a roundabout way does make sense for the Splinters/Spikes effect).
since it's the 15th anniversary of Pokemon Black and White in Japan...
I think having a new roster of pokemon every generation would've been a better design scope decision than constantly bringing back old pokemon. Granted, I don't think having a new roster of pokemon required them to rehash the design concepts of a lot of gen 1-4 pokemon which I think was a big part of why people reacted negatively to the Unova dex.
Obviously I know this is unpopular because they immediately made BW2 with old pokemon again, XY which recreated viridian forest and had nostalgia bait with giving the player the gen 1 starters again. I also know how unusual it is to have your favorite generation be one that wasn't your first one or one you grew up with. I played BW1 and BW2 when I was in high school but started with Pokemon on Stadium as a kid.
As a player when I'm playing a generation I always use the pokemon of that generation and don't use any of the old pokemon, unless they got a new form or evolution. I know I'm very much in the minority on this. Friend of mine has used Gyarados in literally every game its available.
I think having a new roster of pokemon every generation would've been a better design scope decision than constantly bringing back old pokemon. Granted, I don't think having a new roster of pokemon required them to rehash the design concepts of a lot of gen 1-4 pokemon which I think was a big part of why people reacted negatively to the Unova dex.
Obviously I know this is unpopular because they immediately made BW2 with old pokemon again, XY which recreated viridian forest and had nostalgia bait with giving the player the gen 1 starters again. I also know how unusual it is to have your favorite generation be one that wasn't your first one or one you grew up with. I played BW1 and BW2 when I was in high school but started with Pokemon on Stadium as a kid.
As a player when I'm playing a generation I always use the pokemon of that generation and don't use any of the old pokemon, unless they got a new form or evolution. I know I'm very much in the minority on this. Friend of mine has used Gyarados in literally every game its available.
Cool idea in theory, but kinda bad in practice. Old Pokemon are needed to fill out the dex, as doing what BW did (151 new Pokemon) isn't sustainable and frankly put even then 151 is honestly too small of a Dex to have types fairly represented. We saw what happened with that in sinnoh. It also means you have to address how tf do you make evos for old mons, as those are a big part of Pokemon. You could do regional forms, but part of the fun is seeing these old Pokemon getting that Evo, not an off branch. I also try to use the new Pokemon (with some exceptions such as using venomoth in Sv mainline story since it was the first game it had been available since GSC and the shiny luxray I found 5 minutes into the teal mask) but only using new Pokemon is not sustainable. Bw prob shouldn't have done it, though at least they tried something new.
Only problems I've had with it are in Gen 2 and Gen 6 because the former doesn't have that many that are actually obtainable in Johto and the latter just doesn't have very many new pokemon. Didn't have any issues using an entire team of new pokemon with varied types in any of the other gens.
I mean Unova and Sinnoh not having enough Ice or Fire types respectively isn't a problem inherent to their dexes, they chose not to make enough of either for whatever reason.
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Well again, I have to point to gens 1 and 4. The orginal 151 are great and all, but where tf are the ghosts and dragons. Those types have one line max. And this is with 2 types that don't exist (no darks even in something like FRLG and only one steel line, fairies are unironically not horrible since a decent few gain the typing). Gen 4 (specifically the sinnoh games) has 151 as well, and there are 2 fire type lines. And if you don't pick chimchar, you are stuck with ponyta and you will like it. Like, again, you can use only new pokemon, but do you give the player options they can use amongst types? I would say that is a very difficult thing to do. BW is the only gen that even remotely came close to getting it right. And again, creating 151 pokemon per gen is not something you can really do constantly, so smaller (60-80) is what you prob what you can realistically do, and that would not create a balanced dex.
Well, thats kinda a problem you run into, lets do some math. Let's ignore fairies for now (since while that only excarebates the problem, they weren't available at the time). 17 types, and lets say the dex is 150 (round number and close enough to the actual dex number). 150 divided by 17 is 8.823.... around 8-9 Pokemon you can have for each type. Not evo lines, individual pokemon. Lets take fire types for example, after the starter line, you have max, 6 pokemon to work with. If you do another 3 stage line (which you prob want), then you are down 3 pokemon. So you can maybe squeeze out a single evo and a two stage. That leaves you with 4 different pokemon fire type lines for said region. See the issue here? If every type is represented equally, there just are limited options for each type. Some types have to be under-represented to make sure the other types have more options (like normal for example, which you kinda want there to be). So in fact, you kinda can't have enough lines. And this isn't even counting legendaries, theres around 3-10 per game, which cut even further into the already limited dex (typically put aside from maybe the box legendary, you won't use them in your party, SS and SV straight up didn't let you until post game).
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I mean you don't have to have a fire type to beat sinnoh, they should have made more new fire types but I never found it a deal breaker for team building.
I mean I never said that was the requirement for having a dex of entirely or almost entirely new pokemon? you could construct a dex of entirely new pokemon with lower than 151 and have it represent most if not all types fairly and have variety but it would still probably be incredibly unpopular because Game Freak has built the brand on nostalgia and the promise of always having your favorites from a decade ago available.
my favorite gen that I thought was a step in the right direction was the worst performing gen by a lot. I get why game freak pivoted immediately away from it because of the backlash but I'm still bitter about it.
151 mons is sufficient if you want type diversity in a completely new dex. Gen 1 and base DP very clearly have a ton of game design issues that permeate their being and lead to their lopsided type distribution. I don't think Kanto needed to have 33 Poison-types and 32(?) Water-types, for instance.
Reposting so its easier to see/respond to.
Well, thats kinda a problem you run into, lets do some math. Let's ignore fairies for now (since while that only excarebates the problem, they weren't available at the time). 17 types, and lets say the dex is 150 (round number and close enough to the actual dex number). 150 divided by 17 is 8.823.... around 8-9 Pokemon you can have for each type. Not evo lines, individual pokemon. Lets take fire types for example, after the starter line, you have max, 6 pokemon to work with. If you do another 3 stage line (which you prob want), then you are down 3 pokemon. So you can maybe squeeze out a single evo and a two stage. That leaves you with 4 different pokemon fire type lines for said region. See the issue here? If every type is represented equally, there just are limited options for each type. Some types have to be under-represented to make sure the other types have more options (like normal for example, which you kinda want there to be). So in fact, you kinda can't have enough lines. And this isn't even counting legendaries, theres around 3-10 per game, which cut even further into the already limited dex (typically put aside from maybe the box legendary, you won't use them in your party, SS and SV straight up didn't let you until post game). You ofc have dual types, but that can only do so much, since some types are going to need to be single type.
You simply cannot, its going to have incredibly limited amount of lines. If we did 80 dex with 18 options, you have 4-5 mons for each type. If you do water types, you have 1-2 mons after the starter line.... So basically the rapidash/chimchar situation again. That is going to be really, REALLY awkward to make it diverse. It is literally impossible to make a balanced dex.
They have other issues, yes, but part of it is the limited dex size. You need 250 or so pokemon to try to even get anywhere near a diverse range of pokemon.
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I think you are sticking way too strictly to the formula, there's no reason to discount dual types
none of this math you are doing is adding up
it only takes 72 slots of a new dex for every singular type to have 4 fully evolved options that arent legends, and that's not even counting that dual-types do exist. this is more than some types get in new pokemon every gen, and obviously some should get more than this depending on which types are planned for gym leaders or elite four for that particular gen.
I think this only makes sense if you are working with an insane amount of unique pokemon options as being acceptably diverse. The number of unique team combinations you could have in early gens even with entirely new pokemon was still really high. I'm obviously wanting it to be higher than that, but obviously you will never be able to reach 10+ different options per type that modern games have.
My whole point was that I don't think that's a reasonable goal if they want to actually develop these games in a reasonable scope. There being 10 to 31, depending on the type, possible fully evolved choices in Sword and Shield is absolutely insane to me, even more insane that people were upset this wasn't high enough. I don't think this is sustainable and I'm surprised the games even run with the amount of work that is.
EDIT: I went thru Scarlet/Violet and counted them up and there's more variety in the new pokemon than a lot of previous gens which shows to me they CAN do this.
43 fully evolved new Paldean pokemon type distributions (not counting Legends, Paradoxes, or DLC)
2 - Fairy, Ground, Ice
3 - Bug, Electric, Rock, Dragon
4 - Fire, Fighting, Flying, Poison
5 - Grass, Dark, Psychic, Steel
6 - Ghost, Water
8 - Normal
if you count some of the paradoxes you can get before the post game like the Donphans, Not-Misdreavus, and Not-Jiggly it makes Ground and Fairy go up to 4.
these 43 evolved pokemon's lines take up 83 of the new dex
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Sure, you can add dual types, but 1. There does need to be single types, so sometimes some slots do need to be taken up by them. This is because they can allow other Pokemon to thrive, for every seaking that may seem boring, it allows a starmie to thrive more. And 2. That at max, doubles it. Realistically it adds like 3 Pokemon to the list, giving you maybe one 3 stage more. Still not too great.
72/18 = 4. And not lines, Pokemon. If you say, make every Pokemon dual type, then that's 8 Pokemon max (and again, you prob are going to have only 5-6 counting mono types). So like, realistically how are you going to represent every type while making them unique? How are you going to make a special attacker, physical attacker, wall and support Pokemon for each type? It's just not realistic. If you again, assume 6 Pokemon, if we do for fire types, you have 3 Pokemon that can try to fill the 'remaining roles' after the starter line. So again, you kinda need old Pokemon to give you more options.
But here's the thing, we ain't in new gens. We have 1000 Pokemon, you need to make new designs and ones that are unique.
Okay well, 1. The people who said there wasn't enough options are insane, I do agree on that. ATP those people are just greedy. And 2. Implementing old Pokemon isn't really too time constraining, realistically they will take a lot of the work from old gens and implement it into the new games with some changes. Maybe you add a few moves to there moveset or change a few stats, but isn't a massive task.
most of the task is that a lot of the pokemon, new or old, have bespoke animations and behavior for being in the 3D overworld. shout out to the goat, nosepass always facing north. every new or old pokemon you add has to be QA'd and bug tested rigorously even if you aren't adding anything new to them. It also takes time to plan which old pokemon you are adding, where they are going, the lore justifications for it (since we know they do this).
I posted it as an edit above but I don't think it's unrealistic. They got fairly close with the new Paldean pokemon.
also I want to admit that as any pokemon fan is, I'm also greedy. Pokemon spoils us, lol. I may be less greedy than the Dexit people but like Digimon and Shin Megami Tensei add far fewer new digimon or demons every iteration than even the least amount of new pokemon we have ever had in XY. This series since day 1 is like the scope creep crapshoot miracle series that other devs look on in confusion and horror. 1000+ individual models being ported in every generation more or less every 3-5 years sends chills down the spines of a lot of other developers and for good reason. It's insane in both a good and bad way that Game Freak is not only successful but they haven't burned themselves out.
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The thing about "I only use new pokemon in my in-game teams" is that there's a bunch of mons which may not be new to the series, but are new to me. How many people have, for example, used Barboach on an in-game team in it's debut generation? Axew? Meditite? It's certainly possible, but for various reasons it's not easy. Bringing mons back in later gens isn't just a chance to let Gyarados sweep 6/8 gyms for the 10th straight region, it's a chance to let players experience mons they might have overlooked while fixing problems(movepool, availability) that put people off originally.
I'm not saying that GF needs to do a region composed entirely of returning mons(although...), but stuff like the BW1 dex feels very limited, while something like XY allows a lot more choice when building my teams and I appreciate that.
I'm not saying that GF needs to do a region composed entirely of returning mons(although...), but stuff like the BW1 dex feels very limited, while something like XY allows a lot more choice when building my teams and I appreciate that.
whiscash getting overshadowed by the water/ground starter was very mean of them lol
yeah a good middle ground can exist, I guess I'm just bummed out when I see new player playing gen 9 for the first time and not a single new pokemon is on there. yeah all 1000+ pokemon are new to anyone starting with that gen, but it feels like a lot of new pokemon get overshadowed by the old pokemon either intentionally or unintentionally.
Yes, but a lot of these they can transfer quite easily across gens. For example, you could transfer Pikachu roaming around pretty easily I would assume, as the majority of its animations are mostly similar. There are ofc going to be general model changes, but I don't think for a team like game freak they would have that much of an issue.
Okay well, there's an issue with stuff such as ice, bug and dragon. Ice you have the cetitan line and baxcalibur line, so if I don't want to have to go through the slog of grinding up the pseudo, then I kinda just have cetitan. And if I say, really really like ice types, then I have at max, 2 runs where I could use unique ice types. You could easily do 3 runs (to test out each starter and play with as many of the new critters as possible), so that could be an issue. If I choose dragon, I have two really late game options in tatsugiri and baxcalibur, with only cyclizar as my option for a dragon that is going to contribute to the majority of the game. For bug, I have spidops, lokix and rellor. Not really amazing options tbh.
That, is the issue. You don't have as many options to create diverse squads when you want to reuse types.
This basically. Having new Pokemon is fine, but to balance them out, you do need old Pokemon.
eh that kind of slog doesn't really exist anymore, you can find the middle stage of that line very easily and the existence of the exp items and exp share always on makes grinding basically opt-in. I used one and it didn't require any special attention whatsoever.
I think the thing with old/new Pokémon distribution is how it's done.
Kanto's original 151 is interesting because the original 151 roster embodies a rather unique kind of design that is easy to overlook with modern Pokemon design philosophy. RGBY was designed a lot like a "90s JRPG" and was originally meant to be nothing more than a self-contained monster collecting JRPG until it blew up into a success, then Pokémon grew into a franchise, and then into a media juggernaut. Only a very small portion of the original 151 is designed to really be "good" with respect to an in-game playthrough. Part of the reason it's so bloated with certain types and lopsided with Normal, Poison, and Water is because a substantial portion of the original 151 isn't intended to really be "used": they're meant to be RPG enemy types, and are largely meant to be fought, whether as common wild encounters in routes and dungeons or in regular use by NPC Trainers you meet along the way.
Gen 5 tried to emulate Gen 1 in terms of design philosophy as far as its roster is concerned, to an extent. A lot of the new Gen 5 Pokemon feel like homages or imitations of Gen 1 Pokemon, but the early game roster in particular around the first three Gyms is where it stands out the most. Once you get to the desert on Route 4, that's when the really unique stuff starts showing up like Sandile, Scraggy, and whatnot. There's a mix of Pokemon who are imitations and others who are truly unique, but this makes the truly unique additions overall smaller in number.
The other generations around it have a smaller number of new Pokemon, but the ones that do get introduced are oftentimes unique. Especially later gens where they're mixed in with lots of old Pokemon.
That being said, in terms of long-term, Gen 5's big roster having some imitations wasn't entirely a bad thing: while it was sort of lame in BW1 itself, in later games especially since the roster is often 400 or above, this actually proved to be good in a surprising way. What I mean by this is that the Gen 5 expies have the potential to co-exist with their original Gen 1 counterparts and split the beans in terms of their roles and distribution in a region, so that the region feels less monotonous overall. A good example is Woobat. In the older games, cave wild encounters were exceptionally boring and repetitive because it was always, always an endless stream of Geodude and Zubat, and late-game dungeons would instead upgrade to Graveler and Golbat. Later games made good use of the expies in tandem with their Gen 1 originals to make this less monotonous. Like in XY, Zubat is in one cave in Central Kalos, Woobat is in caves in Coastal Kalos, and in Mountain Kalos we get neither, but instead we get the newcomer Noibat. That was a good idea imo: instead of one bat Pokemon being there all the time, you get to see a different one depending on where you are. SwSh also did a good job with this imo. Woobat and Swoobat are in caves in the Isle of Armor, while Zubat and Golbat are in the Crown Tundra, and in another cave there and in the main Wild Area we see Noibat and Noivern instead. A similar case is with Audino and Chansey, who are the high EXP yield punching bags and healers who appear rarely. In SwSh, Chansey and Blissey show up as such in the Isle of Armor, but in the Crown Tundra, Audino shows up instead. Those two are also gonna be in different Legends games to share the role. Chansey is in Legends: Arceus since Sinnoh introduced Happiny, and serves the high EXP punching bag role well there. Audino will be playing that role in Legends: Z-A since Audino has a Mega Evolution. That kinda spices things up in a good way rather than having the exact same Pokemon play the same role in various regions.
A bit of an off tangent there but nonetheless. On the other hand I do think having old Pokemon around in later games to be usable for a playthrough can be cool if only because it's interesting to see how some Pokemon do outside their debut gen, either because they're available more easily/earlier, have new tools (moves, abilities, etc.), or whatnot, which can make even old Pokemon fun in new ways outside their debut games. An obscure example is the OG Trade Four in the Sinnoh games. Machamp, Alakazam, Golem, and Gengar are surprisingly fun to use in DPP in ways that they aren't quite in the original Kanto games, for one. Gardevoir gained the Fairy-type in later generations, and Gallade has Sharpness in SV.
So I think there's a bit of good to both ends.
Kanto's original 151 is interesting because the original 151 roster embodies a rather unique kind of design that is easy to overlook with modern Pokemon design philosophy. RGBY was designed a lot like a "90s JRPG" and was originally meant to be nothing more than a self-contained monster collecting JRPG until it blew up into a success, then Pokémon grew into a franchise, and then into a media juggernaut. Only a very small portion of the original 151 is designed to really be "good" with respect to an in-game playthrough. Part of the reason it's so bloated with certain types and lopsided with Normal, Poison, and Water is because a substantial portion of the original 151 isn't intended to really be "used": they're meant to be RPG enemy types, and are largely meant to be fought, whether as common wild encounters in routes and dungeons or in regular use by NPC Trainers you meet along the way.
Gen 5 tried to emulate Gen 1 in terms of design philosophy as far as its roster is concerned, to an extent. A lot of the new Gen 5 Pokemon feel like homages or imitations of Gen 1 Pokemon, but the early game roster in particular around the first three Gyms is where it stands out the most. Once you get to the desert on Route 4, that's when the really unique stuff starts showing up like Sandile, Scraggy, and whatnot. There's a mix of Pokemon who are imitations and others who are truly unique, but this makes the truly unique additions overall smaller in number.
The other generations around it have a smaller number of new Pokemon, but the ones that do get introduced are oftentimes unique. Especially later gens where they're mixed in with lots of old Pokemon.
That being said, in terms of long-term, Gen 5's big roster having some imitations wasn't entirely a bad thing: while it was sort of lame in BW1 itself, in later games especially since the roster is often 400 or above, this actually proved to be good in a surprising way. What I mean by this is that the Gen 5 expies have the potential to co-exist with their original Gen 1 counterparts and split the beans in terms of their roles and distribution in a region, so that the region feels less monotonous overall. A good example is Woobat. In the older games, cave wild encounters were exceptionally boring and repetitive because it was always, always an endless stream of Geodude and Zubat, and late-game dungeons would instead upgrade to Graveler and Golbat. Later games made good use of the expies in tandem with their Gen 1 originals to make this less monotonous. Like in XY, Zubat is in one cave in Central Kalos, Woobat is in caves in Coastal Kalos, and in Mountain Kalos we get neither, but instead we get the newcomer Noibat. That was a good idea imo: instead of one bat Pokemon being there all the time, you get to see a different one depending on where you are. SwSh also did a good job with this imo. Woobat and Swoobat are in caves in the Isle of Armor, while Zubat and Golbat are in the Crown Tundra, and in another cave there and in the main Wild Area we see Noibat and Noivern instead. A similar case is with Audino and Chansey, who are the high EXP yield punching bags and healers who appear rarely. In SwSh, Chansey and Blissey show up as such in the Isle of Armor, but in the Crown Tundra, Audino shows up instead. Those two are also gonna be in different Legends games to share the role. Chansey is in Legends: Arceus since Sinnoh introduced Happiny, and serves the high EXP punching bag role well there. Audino will be playing that role in Legends: Z-A since Audino has a Mega Evolution. That kinda spices things up in a good way rather than having the exact same Pokemon play the same role in various regions.
A bit of an off tangent there but nonetheless. On the other hand I do think having old Pokemon around in later games to be usable for a playthrough can be cool if only because it's interesting to see how some Pokemon do outside their debut gen, either because they're available more easily/earlier, have new tools (moves, abilities, etc.), or whatnot, which can make even old Pokemon fun in new ways outside their debut games. An obscure example is the OG Trade Four in the Sinnoh games. Machamp, Alakazam, Golem, and Gengar are surprisingly fun to use in DPP in ways that they aren't quite in the original Kanto games, for one. Gardevoir gained the Fairy-type in later generations, and Gallade has Sharpness in SV.
So I think there's a bit of good to both ends.
Can we just talk about how much of an over-correction X & Y’s PokéDex is for Black & White real fast? We went from “largest amount of new Pokémon to date but you can only use them and that results in a smaller regional Dex relative to the other games” to… basically flipping literally every single part of what I just said to its exact opposite three years later. I just find that funny for some reason
