“What happened to Mythical Pokémon?”

[bdt2002]

For the longest time, event-exclusive Pokémon have been the subject of intriguing discussions regarding their relative power level, design inspirations, and sometimes even their connections to future Pokémon games. What we know now as “Mythical Pokémon” have been around since the very beginning with the intentionally poorly kept secret that was Mew in the late ‘90s, and it’s in part because of Mew’s influence that the Pokémon dynasty of the late ‘90s and early 2000s was able to become as widespread as it was.

Time went on, and while Pokémon is still an extremely popular multimedia franchise nowadays, I don’t think it’s ever quite reached the highs of the glory days, specifically when you look at Pokémon relative to other games. I mean, heck, all three of the best-selling Game Boy Advance games are the Gen 3 Pokémon games. Imagine if something like that happened with a console as popular as the original Nintendo Switch. Safe to say, the idea of Mythical Pokémon has been a massive success for The Pokémon Company, which may explain why in recent generations the games have been far more lenient with making these Pokémon available more easily.

In spite of this, I don’t entirely know if I’m a fan of this change. Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire’s Delta Episode was unprecedented in that the player gains access to a Mythical Pokémon as if it were any other encounter with a Legendary, albeit a really, really cool one by the standards of a Pokémon game for the 3DS. Since then, we’ve also seen Magearna available in Alola, Celebi available in the unfortunately discontinued 3DS Virtual Console version of Johto, Keldeo in Galar’s DLC (there is also unused encounter data for Victini, too), Mew and Jirachi in Sinnoh, Meloetta and Pecharunt in Paldea’s DLC, and an entire game dedicated to Arceus that also features Manaphy, Darkrai, and Shaymin. That’s not including the upcoming release of Pokémon Legends ZA, which I’m more than confident will feature Diancie, Volcanion, and has basically already confirmed Hoopa in all but name. That is a lot of Mythical Pokémon in an 11 year time span, which makes me wonder… why? What exactly changed, and is this necessarily a good thing?

I want to know your thoughts on this. More content is rarely ever a bad thing, but I also think there was something special about Mythical Pokémon being tied to yearly Pokémon movies and being historically the most common Pokémon players would illegally try and obtain just because they either missed the events or they physically had no other option. In large part because I’m still salty after all these years about missing out on Mario Kart Wii’s online in its prime (more specifically the limited time tournaments that could have just been Mission Mode like DS had; I know about the fan servers for races and Time Trials), for most of my life I’ve actually been strongly opposed to limited time content, only going for event-exclusive Pokémon and special events if they were free to play and I actually could access them. This is also the same reason I want to see the Pokémon Ranger distributions to come back at some point. Limited-time content for anything that doesn’t meet these criteria will almost always be redundant for me unless otherwise specified, and what that also did was further increase my appreciation for the very few online events I did have access to before our family had full-time Internet access.

This thread isn’t anything too, too serious. I think there are good and bad things for this. I can see the argument in favor of making Mythicals more accessible and I can just as easily se the argument against it. For Pokémon like some of those Pokémon Ranger ones where it’s a regular Pokémon but it has an event-exclusive move or something, that’s what really gets me aggravated as a consumer because I would prefer those additions to be preserved for the future once the distribution period is over. Scarlet & Violet got rid of basically all of those moves, though, and I absolutely hate that- even the GameCube exclusive moves from purifying Shadow Pokémon got the boot. But what do you think? Do you have any thoughts? And what Mythical Pokémon would you like to see in a future Pokémon game? Me personally I’d love to see Victini again after its exclusion from the Crown Tundra, and I also predict Genesect could be next in line if we’re following the Keldeo and Meloetta pattern.

 

[R_N]

I think the shift away from a lot of new mythics is probably just down to no movies.

Meanwhile I think the shift to making them at least a little more available is just due to how, over time, there's been quite a number of them and since they all have to be tied to needing give aways, that means a lot of them just kinda...don't get released for years at a time. Diancie's the big one, it had no give away at all since Gen 6 until Pokemon Go; and that has the caveat of you can't even bring it out of Home unless you had a Diancie already.

So that, the slow death march of Pokemon Bank, probably dexit and also the movie aspect as well sure, just all leads to wanting to make them more accessible without having to d another 20 events every generation that also btw are not guaranteed to even hit America much less the other countries outside Japan. But they still want them to be a little quirky so they're tied to save data bonuses or an extra round about quest

I think it's for the best, both moving away from having a new one every year and letting them be a little more accessible. Bit of a shame that likely the mythics for Z-A will be in the DLC rather than the main game (I suppose Diancie could still be a Z-A reward, but Hoopa & likely Volcanion probably not) but oh well. It's still an over all good.

I also enjoy Home giving out the shiny mythics as dex rewards.

 

[Omastar68]

Speaking as someone too lazy to go to events, which used to be where you get these, I STILL think it's bad to make them that widespread. Not like ruinous ofc, it's fine either way mostly, but it kills any real special factor imo, where you can say you were there. And with cloning, it was still probably easy enough to get them I guess.

 

[R_N]

Speaking as someone too lazy to go to events, which used to be where you get these, I STILL think it's bad to make them that widespread. Not like ruinous ofc, it's fine either way mostly, but it kills any real special factor imo, where you can say you were there. And with cloning, it was still probably easy enough to get them I guess.

Any time feelings of "specialness" come up I have to point out that something being more available does not inherently make the past less special.

You were "there", at the time, every time, all those years ago and for that time period. The version of that Mythic you have still has their obtained date from that time, that trainer ID only given for that give away, that origin mark (or lack there of), that cherish ball (gen 4 on), etc. You had it for that entire time. If it stops being special just because anyone with the SWSH + BDSP can get a Jirachi, that feels more on you than the Pokemon.

 

[bdt2002]

Any time feelings of "specialness" come up I have to point out that something being more available does not inherently make the past less special.

I’m going to have disagree with this but not for the same reason. I agree with this take overall, since the value of the past will never truly be diminished so long as history is preserved and lessons and memories are made. But think of it this way. Imagine you’re a brand new Shiny hunter, and you’ve only found two or three Shinies ever, if that. Beside you stands a much more experienced and longtime member of the community. Your stereotypical content creator that hosts Shiny hunting livestreams and multiplayer events.

For the person with more Shinies, the value of each individual Shiny is likely going to be far less than the individual value of each Shiny the person with less has. I don’t mean to make this political or anything, but I can’t think of any other analogies off the top of my head- this really is the same reason why you might find people that grew up less fortunate turn out to be some of the nicest and most appreciative people you’ve ever met in your life. The more of something you have, the less value each individual something has. That’s what I believe, anyway.

In this sense, Mythical Pokémon being as obscure as they were back in the day can absolutely be seen as a benefit to these games and for the players. Even more so for the Mythicals that you either have to work to get or discovered completely on your own without some kind of guide or tutorial. The value of a Pokémon often comes from the circumstances encountered in meeting it.

 

[RocketSurgery]

Speaking as someone too lazy to go to events, which used to be where you get these, I STILL think it's bad to make them that widespread. Not like ruinous ofc, it's fine either way mostly, but it kills any real special factor imo, where you can say you were there. And with cloning, it was still probably easy enough to get them I guess.

Trust me when I say that having GameStop be involved in any part of the mythical distribution process was not a cherished part of the memory.

 

[Omastar68]

yeah fair. I can def see both sides too...I suppose at the end of the day maybe it's better to have them reasonably obtainable. I mean cause in that world they are there, same as any bidoof or rattata.

EDIT: yeah, gamestop can't make it more special come to think, if anything it's world-breaking, there are no gamestops in there lol, having to do irl hoops out of a game sorta isn't optimal.

 

[R_N]

I’m going to have disagree with this but not for the same reason. I agree with this take overall, since the value of the past will never truly be diminished so long as history is preserved and lessons and memories are made. But think of it this way. Imagine you’re a brand new Shiny hunter, and you’ve only found two or three Shinies ever, if that. Beside you stands a much more experienced and longtime member of the community. Your stereotypical content creator that hosts Shiny hunting livestreams and multiplayer events.

For the person with more Shinies, the value of each individual Shiny is likely going to be far less than the individual value of each Shiny the person with less has. I don’t mean to make this political or anything, but I can’t think of any other analogies off the top of my head- this really is the same reason why you might find people that grew up less fortunate turn out to be some of the nicest and most appreciative people you’ve ever met in your life. The more of something you have, the less value each individual something has. That’s what I believe, anyway.

In this sense, Mythical Pokémon being as obscure as they were back in the day can absolutely be seen as a benefit to these games and for the players. Even more so for the Mythicals that you either have to work to get or discovered completely on your own without some kind of guide or tutorial. The value of a Pokémon often comes from the circumstances encountered in meeting it.

I feel like a more accurate comparison here (since what youre saying would probably be more akin to like...someone with the colosseum bonus disc making Jirachi give aways inherently less special) would be saying things like doubling the shiny rate or having the shiny charm or being able to make sandwiches makes shinies less special because it means people have wider access to them which boy howdy

let me tell you

I don't agree with that one either and the number of shiny hunters who hold that opinion sure get exasperated looks from me

 

[Karxrida]

Mythical Pokémon served something of an important purpose early on, even if inadvertently. Morimoto sneaking Mew into Red and Green super late into development and the scant info about its existence (both in-game and real life) accidentally lead to all those playground rumors, adding fuel to the Pokémania fire that could only really be done in the age right before widespread adoption of the internet. It stoked the fires of imagination in the players, feeding their obssessions. Even when they intentionally added Celebi in GSC with the intent of it being distributed later, they made sure to leave the clues to presence with the Ilex Forest shrine.

However, it's not the 90s any more. People can datamine games to confirm the existence of anything present in the code (or leftovers) and easily spread that information to the public in an instant. The mythos of Mythicals has been sucked away by the passing of time and progression of technology. They're just stat sheets now that we have to wait to use legally. I think it's fine if they're gone, especially since Pokémon continues to have issues with its event distributions.

Also, all the Mew clones specifically were just boring from a gameplay perspective. Same stats (which became less impressive as power creep led to more optimized stat distributions) but without Mew's "can learn every TM/Tutor move and even Transform" gimmick. Yay, cool, can't wait to not want to use them even when they become available.

 

[pika pal]

So for me, Mythical Pokemon feel similarly like products of an older time in Pokemon, but in addition I feel like even their updated availability is kind of half-assed.

Most immediate example I have: VGC bans Mythicals even from restricted formats. In the past, this was logical enough due to their limited availability creating accessibility issues for limited time encounters of hypothetically relevant mons (Darkrai and Arceus come to mind, as well as some event-move specific cases like Follow Me Jirachi from an old Tanabata or Mew with XD Tutor moves). At this point, the accessibility concern has long gone out the window considering VGC is or has at points been dominated by DLC specific Legendary Pokemon such as Urshifu, Ogerpon, Raging Bolt, and the Calyrex riders, which have direct monetary barriers to their acquisition compared to the multiple "freely available" mythicals such as Deoxys, Manaphy, Arceus, and Magearna; Mythicals available in the same expansions such as Keldeo, Meloetta, Melmetal, and Pecharunt; or save bonus mons (which are intended to require ownership but COULD be freely accessed with some loan help) such as Mew, Jirachi, Darkrai, Shaymin, and a second Arceus (BDSP with LA data).

So mechanically, Mythicals have roundabout acquisitions but are not any less obtainable from a practical standpoint compared to several at this point Staple "one off" Pokemon in VGC, making their designation arbitrary. This leaves the "experience" of encountering the Pokemon as their primary niche appeal... which Gamefreak does very little with anymore either. So many Mythicals since Gen 6 have had maybe a small text blurb and some lore after the fact while being relegated to a Wi-Fi distribution or just appearing on the field just... somewhere like Keldeo in the Crown Tundra if you cook curry with the other Swords, or Meloetta in Blueberry Coastal Biome if you spin in a particular spot and apply a camera filter. It ditches the appeal a lot of old Mythicals had where even getting to SEE them was an event of side content, compared to Major Legendaries as story beats and minor legendaries being at the end of a dungeon without much fanfare persay.

They haven't TOTALLY done away with this mentality, as stuff like the Giant's Bed Regigigas capping off the Legendary Golem collection with a Max Battle, DLC legendaries frequently being a quest chain like Kubfu or Ogerpon, and even in SV Pecharunt is an epilogue subplot to the DLC, but it's not frequent enough to quite feel like the rule compared to Gens 2-5 where almost every Mythical had a big set piece and cutscenes around them (Celebi's Kurt conversation, Deoxys and Mew on the Gen 3 Islands, all 3 Sinnoh Mythicals having designated locations and lore allusions from in-game elements, and even the Unova Mythicals that weren't encounters had flavorful exclusive scenes for things like their exclusive moves).

Mythicals mechanically are just like any other Legendary with the advent of online distribution, and aesthetically TPC isn't doing anything special with them as literal or narrative events compared to regular legendaries. One aspect they gave up on for marketing and the other they gave up on for lack of effort since the rumor and scarcity isn't enough to carry conversation anymore (like everyone knowing about Mew but the one guy who has it is the talk of the playground). The part I criticize is they neither wore away the restrictions nor kept up the unique "wow" factor: most in-game Mythicals are still post-game or locked behind the "beat the game" half of the DLC rather than the mid-game version to restrict their "in-game" usage without outside trading or interference, while having nothing to be used on due to being banned from battle facilities and most of the Competitive/PvP avenues the games support.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Also, all the Mew clones specifically were just boring from a gameplay perspective. Same stats (which became less impressive as power creep led to more optimized stat distributions) but without Mew's "can learn every TM/Tutor move and even Transform" gimmick. Yay, cool, can't wait to not want to use them even when they become available.

In all fairness, while some of them have fallen off in recent generations I do feel a good number of them have fun gimmicks that at least at some point were effective. Celebi a bit less so (but for a while it was pretty good as a support oriented Grass-type), but Jirachi's Serene Grace in tandem with moves like Iron Head and Thunder, combined with its defensive type, was always a fun tool, Manaphy has Tail Glow and for a while was a menace on rain teams, Shaymin has Seed Flare, and Victini has the insane 180 BP V-Create.

I do admittedly like the spin a few of them have taken though, namely Diancie and Pecharunt. Diancie is +50 in Defenses and -50 in HP and Speed, and lore-wise is an upgraded Carbink. Diamond Storm is a funny signature move like Shaymin's Seed Flare and the Mega also adds an interesting spin. Pecharunt is -12 in most stats and +60 in Defense which is an even more interesting spin, not to mention Pecharunt does have some pretty interesting tools in its kit. The 88 in most stats ties it to the Loyal Three and has a funny gorowase meaning in Japanese.

That said, yeah, the hassle of getting them in many cases doesn't quite have the same magic as it did in earlier times.

 

[bdt2002]

Something I’ve always liked about Mythical Pokémon is there tends to be an association with Pokémon’s yearly schedule for them. Often times they had been made a central focus of a certain year and its marketing run:

1996-98: Mew
2001: Celebi
2003: Jirachi
2004: Deoxys
2006: Manaphy
2007: Darkrai
2008: Shaymin
2009: Arceus
2011: Victini
2012: Keldeo & Meloetta
2013: Genesect
2014: Diancie
2015: Hoopa
2016: Volcanion & Magearna
2017: Marshadow
2018: Zeraora
2019: Meltan & Melmetal
2020: Zarude

Pecharunt seems to be a deviation away from this trend, as it’s the first set-in-stone new Mythical we’ve had since then and 2022 was heavily focus on Arceus anyways. There’s no doubt the pandemic had something to do with this but even so, I’ve frequently found myself thinking the Mochi Mayhem plot feels like an anime episode or a shorter movie. I don’t expect Legends ZA or Champions to give us any new Mythicals, and the next one may be later into Gen 10. Gah, that feels weird to say.

 

[Eriorguez]

Before the pandemic, they were already a bit haphazardly going with mythicals anyway. In Gen IV they landed a routine of having a mythical for each year the gen lasted, and so they had Manaphy to create hype for the gen itself, then Darkrai with plenty of ties to the vanilla games, Shaymin getting revealed alongside a new form for Platinum, and Arceus to tie Platinum and HGSS (and, if things were as they should had, they all would had been obtainable with in-game events in Diamond and Pearl).

But, in the summer leading to Gen V, the hype for it wasn't a Victini movie but a Zoroark movie; even if that has the same intent as Lucario's, gotta keep in mind that Gen IV was getting hyped and teased for a very long time; as in, Munchlax was revealed in May 2004, closer to the release of Gen III than to that of Gen IV. And that's where things kinda took a weird turn: Victini's position as the first Unova Dex 'mon kinda shows the intent for it to be an early adopter bonus rather than a down the line thing, and so 2010 was weird, with Zoroark and Johto beasts being the event stuff leading to Gen V, then we got the gimmick "2 movies for one" in 2011, then Keldeo was revealed in the leadup to B2W2, Meloetta had no movie whatsoever but rather played a part in a fillery anime arc, and Genesect was revealed when we were already leading up to Gen VI in 2013, and had no time to deal with its Team Plasma affiliation, instead duking it out with Mega Mewtwo before Megas were formally introduced as a concept.

And then, 2014 had a quite XY introductory film with Diancie, in the leadup to ORAS; 2015 had Hoopa, who had plenty of stuff in ORAS referencing it, incluiding its new form, and then 2016 had Volcanion grouped with Magearna, who was there to sorta hype up SM.

Things got hectic, and it does feel like it was a combination of Gen IV taking its time to come out but staying around for a solid while, while Gens V and VI is where things started to wrap up quite fast, and thus the mythicals introduced at the beggining couldn't get enough time in the spotlight: Gen IV debuted with Manaphy fresh and the Ranger egg tie-in active, then got all of Darkrai, Shaymin and Arceus enough time without the generation petering out, but Gen V debuted with Zoroark of all things being event-locked, and with Victini, Keldeo, Meloetta and Genesect to debut between 2011 and 2013. Too many mythicals for not enough time. And that bled over into Gen VI, where the 3 mythicals got each a year to debut, but Volcanion was literally getting overshadowed by the 20th anniversary Gen being released. Then again, Gen VI as a whole missed a Z game we are getting just now.

Gen VII changed the approach to movies but also to mythicals, due to embrazing mid-gen new species. So, we got Marshadow unveiled before USUM, then Zeraora was introduced in those and starred in the 2018 film. Meltan and Melmetal were introduced that year as well, but they were more of a GO tie-in than a movie tie-in, and were featured in the anime as part of Ash's team, but then, the 2019 movie was a goddamn remake of the first one, so nothing was introduced there in the leadup to SS, which came without mythicals. And then COVID happened. Zarude was introduced in the Armor DLC, but, the entire annual film strategy was dropped there. If that wasn't the case, perhaps Enamorus would had been a mythical, but who knows.

In any case, by SS the raid system allows for rotating promotional stuff in an interactive way. The big movie approach is over, new species are added mid-gen by DLCs or new games, and the mythical label doesn't really do much nowadays. If they are worked like ORAS Deoxys, Arceus in Legends or Pecharunt's introduction, they are fine. But the age of finding 4 extra species at the end of the Dex is over.

Well, 4 extra species, I still remember DP's datamine and how we had a huge bunch of stuff not in the Sinnoh Dex. Because what the flying fuck were they thinking...

 

[Hugin]

I dislike mons that are impractical or impossible to use in-game. I can see the argument about rarity or whatever, but nah. FOMO does not make me happy; I have no desire to stick a virtual trophy on my cartridge that attests that I visited a Gamestop at the right time. If the mon is available in-game, then I can make a run with it. If it isn't available, then why does it exist?

I did do a mostly-mythicals run of BDSP using all the in-game bonuses, and had a lot of fun with it. But that was explicitly because they were made readily available.

 

[Eriorguez]

Loved what Legends Arceus did with the mythicals as well.

I honestly don't mind mythicals being tied to locked content in-game that gets unlocked for free after a certain date. Them being extra content is great, while them being a mystery gift received at level 100 with an awkward OT and the like is meh.

If they are shiny locking stuff, keep that for the shinies I guess.