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Metagame Pokébilities

The OU bans + brightpowder should be live on the server now (or after the next restart). It's been a long time since I did this but I figure we could do a classic style suspect test for the two biggest nuisances remaining, from what I gather that would be yanmega and some choice between gambit or kingdra (would like to do at most 2 mons lest the focus get too spread thin).

I'm looking into whether the OM staff see it fit to write in an exception for evasion abilities (e.g. make them not be included in the mod, if you have a pokemon with one, it'd just be ignored). This would be the best outcome rather than obliterating everything that has an eva ability or leaving them unchecked forever, but it's sketchy territory for the principles of OM mechanics.
 
Ivy said:
The OU bans + brightpowder should be live on the server now (or after the next restart). It's been a long time since I did this but I figure we could do a classic style suspect test for the two biggest nuisances remaining, from what I gather that would be yanmega and some choice between gambit or kingdra (would like to do at most 2 mons lest the focus get too spread thin).

I'm looking into whether the OM staff see it fit to write in an exception for evasion abilities (e.g. make them not be included in the mod, if you have a pokemon with one, it'd just be ignored). This would be the best outcome rather than obliterating everything that has an eva ability or leaving them unchecked forever, but it's sketchy territory for the principles of OM mechanics.
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When it comes to the choice between Kingdra and Gambit, I think Gambit would likely be the better decision since its existence and power in the tier has been discussed longer than Kingdra, and, in my opinion, it is far more overcentralizing due to not being playstyle specific
 
I just wanted to add that Kingambit has been on almost every single team I play against. I don't think its healthy that one slot on every team is hardly optional because its incredibly easy to slap onto any team and just send it out last if nothing else.
 
Mechazor said:
I just wanted to add that Kingambit has been on almost every single team I play against. I don't think its healthy that one slot on every team is hardly optional because its incredibly easy to slap onto any team and just send it out last if nothing else.
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It's a great check for other things like Yanmega... which are arguably also broken, so yeah, getting rid of some broken-checking-broken obligations would very likely be pretty freeing for the meta.
 
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokebilities-2456886407

During all the discourse surrounding Yanmega, Kingambit, Clefable, etc, never forget that while not as strong as it was in the last two gens, Reuniclus is still incredible. Whether it be utility with Knock, T Wave, and P Noise, late game CM setup, setting and abusing TR, AV sets that infinitely sit on some special pokemon (and are a major help against Kingdra currently to take a single hit and possibly land a Knock Off), and even LO 3 attacks. Yeah, it didn't do much damage here (partially because it was the 75 BP P Noise instead of the 90 BP Psychic), but it still made good progress.
 
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokebilities-2456888483

Clod just fills so many holes in this meta. Helps against rain, can Toxic a non Sub Yanmega (even if it only survives one hit), one of the few checks to Cosmic Clef (whether through tera dark or Haze), does good damage to untera'd Gambit, checks Azu (Knock is a 3HKO, so most Azu's choose between losing item removal or losing to Clod and Amoonguss), can entirely wall most Alo sets and some Dozo sets if you need something against stall. Great mon, and I'm glad it's less specific in pokebilities than it is in OU
 
So, I didn't realize this until just now because none of the Kommo-o's I've ran into have tried this (for good reason), but they wall the LO 3 attacks set if you change out Psychic for P Noise. May be something to keep in mind with Kommo-o seeing more usage than it did last time that pokebilities was OMotM.
 
Got #1 on this wacky ladder.

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Sand Veil & Snow Veil being legal is the lamest shit on the planet. Gliscor is already annoying enough as is, I don't need it dodging a liquidation to win the game. Clefable is in theory really lame, but I've never had an issue just blowing it up. Yanmega is also, in theory, lame, but you're either running sash and dying to hazards, or running boots & dying to your opponent clicking a move on your bug that's trying to set up. It definitely doesn't OHKO anything off the rip with Bug Buzz. Can't think of anything else exceedingly annoying, besides maybe Clodsire.

Other Minor Obsevations:
  • Dragapult is a Miracle Worker
  • Kingambit is slightly better than they are in OU but doesn't feel banworthy, Intimidate is significantly worse as a result though
  • Free Roaring Moon they did nothing wrong
  • Free Volcarona, they did nothing wrong
  • Viewing the ladder NEVER WORKS
  • Raging Bolt is still goated because people try to use wack glass cannons like Cinccinno or Cinccinno, or even Cinccinno
  • Hawlucha is very cool.
 
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WohMi said:
Got #1 on this wacky ladder.

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Sand Veil & Snow Veil being legal is the lamest shit on the planet. Gliscor is already annoying enough as is, I don't need it dodging a liquidation to win the game. Clefable is in theory really lame, but I've never had an issue just blowing it up. Yanmega is also, in theory, lame, but you're either running sash and dying to hazards, or running boots & dying to your opponent clicking a move on your bug that's trying to set up. It definitely doesn't OHKO anything off the rip with Bug Buzz. Can't think of anything else exceedingly annoying, besides maybe Clodsire.

Other Minor Obsevations:
  • Dragapult is a Miracle Worker
  • Kingambit is slightly better than they are in OU but doesn't feel banworthy, Intimidate is significantly worse as a result though
  • Free Roaring Moon they did nothing wrong
  • Free Volcarona, they did nothing wrong
  • Viewing the ladder NEVER WORKS
  • Raging Bolt is still goated because people try to use wack glass cannons like Cincinno or
  • Hawlucha is very cool.
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Yes, before even doing the suspect we're possibly going to ban Gliscor and A-tales to remove the most oppressive evasion exploiters. Garchomp seems poised to utilize it too but I haven't seen many examples. Blanket banning the abilities would have a LOT of crossfire (much more than had happened with moody or shadow tag), so likely individual mons are going to be singled out
 
Ivy said:
Yes, before even doing the suspect we're possibly going to ban Gliscor and A-tales to remove the most oppressive evasion exploiters. Garchomp seems poised to utilize it too but I haven't seen many examples. Blanket banning the abilities would have a LOT of crossfire (much more than had happened with moody or shadow tag), so likely individual mons are going to be singled out
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Just blanket restrict the abilities, not the Pokemon. I don't think every mon with dodge-type abilities need to be banned, but people are still going to use Pokemon with them even if A-tales & Gliscor are banned. Snow would definitely suffer with A-tales being gone to be sure, but there's still some egregious threats (Mamoswine, Articuno) that could still abuse the dodge. Same with Sand. With Gliscor gone, you still have Garchomp, Donphan, Sandaconda, and even Gliscor Jr. in Gligar. It's inherently a cheese strategy, at least with Alolatales and Gliscor you can argue they have actual niches in the metagame besides their CloakVeil shenanigans.
 
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WohMi said:
Just blanket restrict the abilities, not the Pokemon. I don't think every mon with dodge-type abilities need to be banned, but people are still going to use Pokemon with them even if A-tales & Gliscor are banned. Snow would definitely suffer with A-tales being gone to be sure, but there's still some egregious threats (Mamoswine, Articuno) that could still abuse the dodge. Same with Sand. With Gliscor gone, you still have Garchomp, Donphan, Sandaconda, and even Gliscor Jr. in Gligar. It's inherently a cheese strategy, at least with Alolatales and Gliscor you can argue they have actual niches in the metagame besides their CloakVeil shenanigans.
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Restricting isn't an option; arbitrarily disabling abilities from the game's code isn't allowed for OM type metagames. It'd have to be a pet mod.
 
:pelipper:-:kingdra:-:basculin-blue-striped:-:kyurem:-:magnezone:-:gliscor:
Any suggestions for this team? I'm most open to changing magnezone bc it's designed to eliminate corv but I can already do that with several other mons. However, I like the general defensive value (and power) magnezone has. Also I'd why I haven't seen a ton of kyurem, it does the exact same thing as in ou but has a more favorable matchup into this meta.
Also unrelated but I don't think gliscor sand veil is that good bc sand in general isn't that great right now. I could see more of a case for a-tales because of Aurora veil and defense buffs but it is generally frail and not super strong anyway.
Edit: Kyurem is tera fairy now
 
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I'm going to compromise with the veil boys and remove the weather elongating stones. Perhaps sun can stay since it seems to be by far the most underutilized and Solar Power has a pretty significant drawback? I'll put in the PR and sun may or may not be added at the last minute.
 
I feel like Neutralizing Gas ruins this the point of this metagame. I get Mold Breaker has a similar effect but I don't think it should be banned because it only affects the user 's moves, but Neutralizing Gas is annoying to the point where it shuts down your Ability completely. For example, Ursaring loses everything Guts + Quick Feet gave it...And countless more Pokémon are shut down by that Gweezing. I think the metagame would be much healthier if Neutralizing Gas was gone for good...It's not like I'm slapping Ability Shield onto all of my team.
Please don't  wheeze at this (pun totally not intended)...Abilities are more impactful than you may think...and Gweezing makes an appearance like every other battle. I don't know if I'm the only one facing this problem. .I'm not, right?
 
I don't believe Weezing-Galar is unhealthy for the metagame due to it being one of the few good defensive checks into the vast majority of offensive abilities and how it is still threatened by many Pokemon. Weezing-Galar offers unique checks to Heracross, Kleavor, Breloom, Mienshao, Hariyama, etc, that most other defensive Pokemon cannot answer, while still being threatened by Rain, Bruxish, Kingambit, Reuniclus, Garchomp, Gallade, certain Dragapult variants, Arcanine-Hisui, Golurk, etc.

Kingambit should be banned. Pressure, Defiant, and Supreme Overlord are absolutely broken by punishing you for Defogging anytime to remove hazards.
 
Bogamogo said:
I feel like Neutralizing Gas ruins this the point of this metagame. I get Mold Breaker has a similar effect but I don't think it should be banned because it only affects the user 's moves, but Neutralizing Gas is annoying to the point where it shuts down your Ability completely. For example, Ursaring loses everything Guts + Quick Feet gave it...And countless more Pokémon are shut down by that Gweezing. I think the metagame would be much healthier if Neutralizing Gas was gone for good...It's not like I'm slapping Ability Shield onto all of my team.
Please don't  wheeze at this (pun totally not intended)...Abilities are more impactful than you may think...and Gweezing makes an appearance like every other battle. I don't know if I'm the only one facing this problem. .I'm not, right?
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I completely disagree personally. Neutralizing Gas, despite shutting down the main point of the meta, has proven to be incredibly meta beneficial if anything. Yes, it turns off abilities, but that allows more varied and balanced play in many situations. Even with the Ursaring example you gave, unless Geezing is tera steel or ghost, Ursa will still 3HKO with stab Facade, even without Guts. It's even a 2HKO with a measly 10% chip. Ability Shield is still really uncommon because every team should have a solid enough foundation to work with the meta gimmick, but not be entirely reliant on it. Checks Azu (can survive a tera water Aqua Jet after Belly Drum and hit a Wisp), walls Tusk and Gliscor (if the Levitate issues are fixed), checks Val, checks Kommo-o, checks Clef (either Clear Smog or Haze with like 8 speed EVs), checks Lando T, checks Ting-Lu, checks Rillaboom, checks Hisuigant on sun teams, checks Mienshao, checks Breloom, checks Cinccino, checks Heracross, checks Hariyama, and can be a great stop gap for Regen mons. There's a laundry list of things it does well against, but it's never been overwhelming or overcentralizing in any way.
 
On the topic of NGas, I wanted to test whether it still works properly in gen 8 pokebilities as well.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen8pokebilities-2607767

The result was an overwhelming yes. I don't know if it's something to do with tera or working out Ability Shield interactions, but I did some testing in gen 9 as well, and I used to be able to get both Misty Surge and NGas to work, just without Levitate. However, it won't even work with Misty Surge now. The Weezings are still great in the meta for the same reasons I listed in my last post, and I don't know if it's just a difference in the code implemented to make the metas work, but that's my only guess as to what could be causing the bugs with Geezing not being able to use all its abilities anymore.

Also, yes, I tried it with NGas selected as the ability like you have to do in gen 8. Misty Surge still didn't work. Yes, I tried it with Ability Shield too.
 
typhlosion787 said:
On the topic of NGas, I wanted to test whether it still works properly in gen 8 pokebilities as well.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen8pokebilities-2607767

The result was an overwhelming yes. I don't know if it's something to do with tera or working out Ability Shield interactions, but I did some testing in gen 9 as well, and I used to be able to get both Misty Surge and NGas to work, just without Levitate. However, it won't even work with Misty Surge now. The Weezings are still great in the meta for the same reasons I listed in my last post, and I don't know if it's just a difference in the code implemented to make the metas work, but that's my only guess as to what could be causing the bugs with Geezing not being able to use all its abilities anymore.

Also, yes, I tried it with NGas selected as the ability like you have to do in gen 8. Misty Surge still didn't work. Yes, I tried it with Ability Shield too.
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Marty who's working on OM code these days? would be nice if someone has some spare time to work through what is likely a really annoying bug in how neutralizing gas works (or more often than not, doesn't work at all). Definitely not looking to ban it, yes.
Also, the latest PR can be merged :blobthumbsup:
 
Just signed up to report that Pressure dosen't work in this metagame, and it ruins all the fun of it.. Maybe you could fix that? Or say somewhere pressure is banned, thank you.
 
Gen23God said:
Just signed up to report that Pressure dosen't work in this metagame, and it ruins all the fun of it.. Maybe you could fix that? Or say somewhere pressure is banned, thank you.
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You should post evidence when making these sorts of reports. That said, I assume you're using a pressure mon that also has other abilities. Those tend to break the client-side display of pressure's PP drop on the opponent's moves. But it actually does still work behind the scenes.
 
Hisuian Arcanine feels like such an underrated pick in this metagame, I've been using it and its highlight of the team. Ninetales is exceedingly impressive, people always assume I'm going for aurora veil when I'm setting up nasty plot and sweeping. Kingambit is a heavy presence in the metagame and imo banworthy. Although, Yanmega doesn't feel overwhelmed to me personally due to priority but I have been close to Yanmega sweep once my priority user dies.

https://pokepast.es/5a16e66b4de98d08
 
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