Ditto
![:[Ampharos]:](/forums/media/minisprites/ampharos.png.m.1753797560)
, wth?
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Resource Scarlet and Violet RU Indigo Disk Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Ampha
- Start date
New shifts new VR rankings baby! We only gained Mew and lost nobody, so most of this is previous meta discussions. Let's stop johning I got some placings to flame because we have been FAR too generous to alot of things in general.
-> B+ / A-
Genuinely a fraud and I cant believe it. RUPL winrate is dismal, somehow manages to lose to its checks every time, and its main benefit of thrashing defense barely matters when just about anything besides Offense borders on unviable right now. ESPECIALLY after Mew dropped and I'll get to that shit soon. It's too slow, too frail and alot of them is just a letdown. Not bad and can do stuff, but A+ is a genuine meme with its current numbers.
-> A
Mew is not a return I wanted to see. With this thing, playing a balance is straight up a builder throw and I'm unsure if I can be convinced otherwise. NP is dumb, spikes is a solid setter and soft gapdos check in the short term and suicide lead mew is.. ok I guess. Just another pokemon that is a pain in the ass to prep for in a tier where we have like 5 of those. Yaay...
-> B
I've defended them both in the past but its impossible to deny these aren't A- material anymore. CB Flygon was fun as hell but this was before G-Weezing stocks rose through the moon, and competition got stiffer with Rhyperior and Mamoswine competing as non-passive grounds. SR sets are mid, shit is just mid as hell. Usable, decent, but unspectacular in every singular role. Hard B. Reuniclus is just facing stiff competition for the psychic slot with a ton of mons. Cresselia has fast speed, twave utility and lunar dance tricks while checking Mamoswine, Slowbro does the same mamo shtick while being better in gapdos and a ton of grounds. Jirachi is a steel with pivoting, encore utility and a litany of other benefits. Its still solid, but again the stiff competition in a meta where you cannot yield a smidgen of ground or you get run over by broken mons we shoulda done away with ages ago means picking it feels harder than you wish it was.
-> A
Nobody can deny the numbers this thing has been putting in. Checks some of the dumbest mons in the tier all at once while being a defogger is a prize all its own and its usage reflects that. Tspikes sets are surprisingly annoying if you dont pack a poison which some offenses forgo, and its a glue that holds a ton back. Some people will hate on it because it doesn't feel it lasts long enough, and thats because its being tasked with too much stuff on top of Zoroark mindgames and volcanion being broken as shit being spammed as partners to what it checks.
-> B-
Another case of generous rankings to an onerous no-shower. Nobody uses this anywhere near enough to justify B+ and it sure as hell is not good enough to get exempt from this. Necrozma suffers the same stuff as Reuniclus but worse, more awkward and less likely to pull magic off. Not bad, but hard to justify.
-> B
Just use gapdos.
-> B+
Both of these are putting in all-star RUPL showings and running the show almost every time they are brought. SubCM Raikou has been great even with tera blast over scald, and H-Lilli is a strong setup sweeper faster than gapdos at +1, huge value. Not a huge amount to say honestly, good mons.
-> C
B- ditto is this a fucking charity? Knock this shit down from there LMFAO
-> B
If yall can have stuff like Alolan Ninetales and klefki in B rank Gallade can be there too. Absurdly good balance breaker and its offense mu is good too! (with agility). Generally unwallable unless there's a scream tail and its entry points are good enough to where you can get it in to do work. Not much to say but please stop underselling this thing and lumping it in with stuff like overqwil and regidrago. Drop those too btw they are not good like that.
Genuinely a fraud and I cant believe it. RUPL winrate is dismal, somehow manages to lose to its checks every time, and its main benefit of thrashing defense barely matters when just about anything besides Offense borders on unviable right now. ESPECIALLY after Mew dropped and I'll get to that shit soon. It's too slow, too frail and alot of them is just a letdown. Not bad and can do stuff, but A+ is a genuine meme with its current numbers.
Mew is not a return I wanted to see. With this thing, playing a balance is straight up a builder throw and I'm unsure if I can be convinced otherwise. NP is dumb, spikes is a solid setter and soft gapdos check in the short term and suicide lead mew is.. ok I guess. Just another pokemon that is a pain in the ass to prep for in a tier where we have like 5 of those. Yaay...
I've defended them both in the past but its impossible to deny these aren't A- material anymore. CB Flygon was fun as hell but this was before G-Weezing stocks rose through the moon, and competition got stiffer with Rhyperior and Mamoswine competing as non-passive grounds. SR sets are mid, shit is just mid as hell. Usable, decent, but unspectacular in every singular role. Hard B. Reuniclus is just facing stiff competition for the psychic slot with a ton of mons. Cresselia has fast speed, twave utility and lunar dance tricks while checking Mamoswine, Slowbro does the same mamo shtick while being better in gapdos and a ton of grounds. Jirachi is a steel with pivoting, encore utility and a litany of other benefits. Its still solid, but again the stiff competition in a meta where you cannot yield a smidgen of ground or you get run over by broken mons we shoulda done away with ages ago means picking it feels harder than you wish it was.
Nobody can deny the numbers this thing has been putting in. Checks some of the dumbest mons in the tier all at once while being a defogger is a prize all its own and its usage reflects that. Tspikes sets are surprisingly annoying if you dont pack a poison which some offenses forgo, and its a glue that holds a ton back. Some people will hate on it because it doesn't feel it lasts long enough, and thats because its being tasked with too much stuff on top of Zoroark mindgames and volcanion being broken as shit being spammed as partners to what it checks.
Another case of generous rankings to an onerous no-shower. Nobody uses this anywhere near enough to justify B+ and it sure as hell is not good enough to get exempt from this. Necrozma suffers the same stuff as Reuniclus but worse, more awkward and less likely to pull magic off. Not bad, but hard to justify.
Just use gapdos.
Both of these are putting in all-star RUPL showings and running the show almost every time they are brought. SubCM Raikou has been great even with tera blast over scald, and H-Lilli is a strong setup sweeper faster than gapdos at +1, huge value. Not a huge amount to say honestly, good mons.
B- ditto is this a fucking charity? Knock this shit down from there LMFAO
If yall can have stuff like Alolan Ninetales and klefki in B rank Gallade can be there too. Absurdly good balance breaker and its offense mu is good too! (with agility). Generally unwallable unless there's a scream tail and its entry points are good enough to where you can get it in to do work. Not much to say but please stop underselling this thing and lumping it in with stuff like overqwil and regidrago. Drop those too btw they are not good like that.
Alright we should get a VR update soonish so it's time to throw some thoughts out I can't let LBN alone in here.
I'll start by briefly repeating some noms LBN made above that I find accurate and want to show my support to.
A- to A
Gweezing is a top tier Pokemon, it checks so many key threats (Mamoswine, Krookodile, Salamence and so on) while having good utility and being very easy to build with. I also think it deserves a raise.
A- to B+
This Pokemon suffers immensely from the above mon being very good and while it can be played a gazillion ways it still has too much competition as a Dragon- and as a Ground-type.
As an aside, I don't think Reuniclus has a comparable place in the tier since it does bring some things to the table that other Psychic-types can't aka pressure thanks to a good coverage and status absorption. I would keep it in A-.
to A
Mew is extremely versatile by nature and will always find a good spot in this tier. While it wasn't that popular back when it was here before, it still got traction in tournament setting and did great thanks to several players. Now that we are done overlooking it, Mew will probably become a standard balance killer because draining kiss is absolutely broken while also be viable in very offensive builds.
Now for the more interesting takes:
A- to B+
It's been a while since these two actually did something in this tier because while on paper they can be great, the results are definitely not here. Maushold serves as hazard control in offensive builds and that's usually it since it requires too much support to reliably function outside of these builds so I don't think it belongs in A- alongside tier staples like Mimikyu or Gardevoir. Terrakion is trickier because I feel like it's not being used to its full potential yet. Nonetheless like every other Fighting-type, it suffers from Gapdos being the best Pokemon of the tier and it struggles to beat most of our physical walls such as Slowbro or Hippowdon which makes it quite difficult to justify in a lot of structures. I also don't think Terrakion is a good Choice Scarf user since it doesn't have a spammable move like all of our other top tier scarfer, which means you're stuck using a SD wallbreaker able to kill one mon and then die or a suicide lead. The Choice Band set might be the best way to use it but it's still quite prediction (and luck) reliant to actually do something. I might be a bit harsh here but I think Terrakion could just be better off as a A tiers gatekeeper.
B+ to A-
This Pokemon is bordeline broken, it has Quiver Dance and the type of Zapdos come on now this can't stay below A tiers.
B to A-
I would like to see a big jump for Entei and Gastrodon in this VR. People understood how to use Entei, meaning we stop using Choice Band and let it change moves to actually beat its checks while not being cooked by hazard thank youuu. It is an amazing progress maker against bulky archetypes and has a very valuable priority move against offensive teams + enough bulk to trade (at worst) against some threats like Bisharp and Armarouge. Same for Gastrodon, Spikes support is extremely good especially since Cyclizar has a very hard time using Rapid Spin against it; it also brings so much to any team thanks to its typing AND can actually be a pain to switch into because Ground/Ice coverage is amazing. I think Rocky Helmet Sticky Hold is very good to punish the hell out of top tiers like Krookodile or Gapdos but Water Absorb is also great since it means you check (or wall) other key threats like Volcanion and Basculegion for instance. Get these mons in A tiers please.
Less interesting changes I'd like to see that don't require much explanation:
B+ to B/B-
B to B-
B- to B/B+
B- to B/B+
B- to C+
I'll start by briefly repeating some noms LBN made above that I find accurate and want to show my support to.
A- to AGweezing is a top tier Pokemon, it checks so many key threats (Mamoswine, Krookodile, Salamence and so on) while having good utility and being very easy to build with. I also think it deserves a raise.
A- to B+This Pokemon suffers immensely from the above mon being very good and while it can be played a gazillion ways it still has too much competition as a Dragon- and as a Ground-type.
As an aside, I don't think Reuniclus has a comparable place in the tier since it does bring some things to the table that other Psychic-types can't aka pressure thanks to a good coverage and status absorption. I would keep it in A-.
to AMew is extremely versatile by nature and will always find a good spot in this tier. While it wasn't that popular back when it was here before, it still got traction in tournament setting and did great thanks to several players. Now that we are done overlooking it, Mew will probably become a standard balance killer because draining kiss is absolutely broken while also be viable in very offensive builds.
Now for the more interesting takes:
A- to B+It's been a while since these two actually did something in this tier because while on paper they can be great, the results are definitely not here. Maushold serves as hazard control in offensive builds and that's usually it since it requires too much support to reliably function outside of these builds so I don't think it belongs in A- alongside tier staples like Mimikyu or Gardevoir. Terrakion is trickier because I feel like it's not being used to its full potential yet. Nonetheless like every other Fighting-type, it suffers from Gapdos being the best Pokemon of the tier and it struggles to beat most of our physical walls such as Slowbro or Hippowdon which makes it quite difficult to justify in a lot of structures. I also don't think Terrakion is a good Choice Scarf user since it doesn't have a spammable move like all of our other top tier scarfer, which means you're stuck using a SD wallbreaker able to kill one mon and then die or a suicide lead. The Choice Band set might be the best way to use it but it's still quite prediction (and luck) reliant to actually do something. I might be a bit harsh here but I think Terrakion could just be better off as a A tiers gatekeeper.
B+ to A-This Pokemon is bordeline broken, it has Quiver Dance and the type of Zapdos come on now this can't stay below A tiers.
B to A-I would like to see a big jump for Entei and Gastrodon in this VR. People understood how to use Entei, meaning we stop using Choice Band and let it change moves to actually beat its checks while not being cooked by hazard thank youuu. It is an amazing progress maker against bulky archetypes and has a very valuable priority move against offensive teams + enough bulk to trade (at worst) against some threats like Bisharp and Armarouge. Same for Gastrodon, Spikes support is extremely good especially since Cyclizar has a very hard time using Rapid Spin against it; it also brings so much to any team thanks to its typing AND can actually be a pain to switch into because Ground/Ice coverage is amazing. I think Rocky Helmet Sticky Hold is very good to punish the hell out of top tiers like Krookodile or Gapdos but Water Absorb is also great since it means you check (or wall) other key threats like Volcanion and Basculegion for instance. Get these mons in A tiers please.
Less interesting changes I'd like to see that don't require much explanation:
B+ to B/B-B to B-B- to B/B+B- to B/B+B- to C+
Agree with most of what has been said (rises for Geezing, Ori, Entei, Gastro and drops for Flygon and Mamo).
I'd also like to make the following nominations:
A -> A+
The only mon (other than Gastro) keeping Volc from singlehandedly demolishing the tier, I find myself slapping it onto almost every BO team I build. It has insane versatility, you can choose to run Defog for hazard control, Super Fang + Taunt/Psychic Noise to stall break or annoy Umbreon (with Taunt also improving your matchup into HO and preventing mons from using you as setup fodder after a Draco), U-Turn for pivoting, or even a Specs set with Tera Normal Boomburst and Switcheroo being great tools. I definitely think this mon is more worthy of A+ than Slither Wing and even Jirachi, which leads me to my next nomination...
A+ -> A
In a tier where the two most common mons are Geezing and Gapdos, Slither Wing finds its STABs increasingly less useful. Having awful matchups into the two aforementioned mons + Talon, Fez, Vern, etc. is not ideal and all the Rocky Helmets and Flame Body/Will-O-Wisps all over this meta make its life even harder. While it still has lots of upsides like the most powerful priority in the tier, it's not an A+ mon.
UR -> B
I don't know how this thing is unranked despite having better tour showings than some RU proper mons. Two 120 BP STABs is insane and you can get around Double Shock being only one use per switch with Tera Electric. Its STABs match up amazingly into the tier. A physical attacker being able to 2HKO Geezing and Slowbro is great and the best thing is its not even scared of burns thanks to Natural Cure. Mach Punch is nice priority and it has a very customizable 4th move slot with Seed Bomb to murk unsuspecting Gastros and Quags or the absolutely underexplored Revival Blessing. Here's a replay of it getting all 6 KOs against someone with over 1500 ELO. Rank this mon!
B+ -> A-/A
Probably the most annoying mon to fight in the tier, can singlehandedly win games. How is this in the same rank as Necrozma and Gligar?
I'd also like to make the following nominations:
A -> A+The only mon (other than Gastro) keeping Volc from singlehandedly demolishing the tier, I find myself slapping it onto almost every BO team I build. It has insane versatility, you can choose to run Defog for hazard control, Super Fang + Taunt/Psychic Noise to stall break or annoy Umbreon (with Taunt also improving your matchup into HO and preventing mons from using you as setup fodder after a Draco), U-Turn for pivoting, or even a Specs set with Tera Normal Boomburst and Switcheroo being great tools. I definitely think this mon is more worthy of A+ than Slither Wing and even Jirachi, which leads me to my next nomination...
A+ -> AIn a tier where the two most common mons are Geezing and Gapdos, Slither Wing finds its STABs increasingly less useful. Having awful matchups into the two aforementioned mons + Talon, Fez, Vern, etc. is not ideal and all the Rocky Helmets and Flame Body/Will-O-Wisps all over this meta make its life even harder. While it still has lots of upsides like the most powerful priority in the tier, it's not an A+ mon.
UR -> BI don't know how this thing is unranked despite having better tour showings than some RU proper mons. Two 120 BP STABs is insane and you can get around Double Shock being only one use per switch with Tera Electric. Its STABs match up amazingly into the tier. A physical attacker being able to 2HKO Geezing and Slowbro is great and the best thing is its not even scared of burns thanks to Natural Cure. Mach Punch is nice priority and it has a very customizable 4th move slot with Seed Bomb to murk unsuspecting Gastros and Quags or the absolutely underexplored Revival Blessing. Here's a replay of it getting all 6 KOs against someone with over 1500 ELO. Rank this mon!
B+ -> A-/AProbably the most annoying mon to fight in the tier, can singlehandedly win games. How is this in the same rank as Necrozma and Gligar?
prospective drops:
A+ --> A/A-
the meta is quite inhospitable to slither wing rn; when the best mon in the tier both checks and competes with you for a team slot, it's rough. it also hates the rise of fire-types like volcanion and entei, flying-types like noivern and salamence, and fire- and flying-types like talonflame. galarian weezing being everywhere also hurts everyone's favorite moth, often forcing it to choose between recovery/utility and heavy slam. like hedera said, it still has its place by virtue of having funny first impression, but its glory days have since passed.
A+ --> A
another ru staple going through a tough time, krookodile's issues mirror that of slither wing's; counters like g-zapdos and g-weezing are better than ever, and the meta is trending more towards fatter structures that krook struggles to break, not helped by the rise of gastrodon and suicune. it's still solid; being a stealth rock setter that's harder to exploit is pretty valuable, but definitely not a+ material.
B+ --> B-
as much fun as i had with a cm necrozma team pre-horoark ban, it was already trending downwards due to both the tier's glut of psychic-types and its tendency to be pressured, especially given its iffy speed, but still had a niche as a bulky, somewhat unpredictable jack-of-all-trades. mew's re-addition to the tier was a massive blow to its viability, as it's another jack-of-all-trades psychic-type that's faster and harder to exploit. necrozma does have a few advantages over mew; namely, a better ability in prism armor and access to reliable recovery, but mew's wider coverage and the fact that it can set up faster makes necrozma much harder to justify.
B+ --> B/B-
webs as a playstyle just isn't very good right now. bisharp and g-zapdos running around everywhere already makes webs a tough sell, but throw in the horoark ban and the rise of dragon dance gyarados/salamence, and you've got an archetype that's really only good for cheesing low ladder. doesn't help that running webs makes it harder for you to use maushold, one of the best HO mons.
prospective rises:
B --> B+
gastrodon loves the rise of volcanion and suicune thanks to storm drain, and in a tier with very few spikes setters as well as scant removal, it shines even brighter. its typing is phenomenal, especially given the tier's lack of (offensive) grass-types, and it can also serve as a blanket check to annoyances like krookodile and magnezone. i largely agree with what rarelyme has to say about gastrodon, but i think it's a wee bit too passive to be a- material. still a pretty good mon, and a lot better than most of the b-ranked shitters
B+ --> A-
oricorio is essentially the second coming of yanmega, trading a bit of offensive prowess for unpredictability and longevity. as seen in rupl, there is a good amount of room for experimentation with tera types due to revelation dance's wacky (read: bs) interactions with terastallization. it can fit pretty well on other offense types that aren't hyper offensive either, so it's not a pure HO cheese mon. rich evans sums it up best
A- --> A
i don't have much to add about g-weezing that others haven't already said. great physical blanket check and a decent role compressor with will-o-wisp and defog. similar to gastrodon it's a bit too passive for A+, but still a very good mon
A+ --> A/A-the meta is quite inhospitable to slither wing rn; when the best mon in the tier both checks and competes with you for a team slot, it's rough. it also hates the rise of fire-types like volcanion and entei, flying-types like noivern and salamence, and fire- and flying-types like talonflame. galarian weezing being everywhere also hurts everyone's favorite moth, often forcing it to choose between recovery/utility and heavy slam. like hedera said, it still has its place by virtue of having funny first impression, but its glory days have since passed.
A+ --> Aanother ru staple going through a tough time, krookodile's issues mirror that of slither wing's; counters like g-zapdos and g-weezing are better than ever, and the meta is trending more towards fatter structures that krook struggles to break, not helped by the rise of gastrodon and suicune. it's still solid; being a stealth rock setter that's harder to exploit is pretty valuable, but definitely not a+ material.
B+ --> B-as much fun as i had with a cm necrozma team pre-horoark ban, it was already trending downwards due to both the tier's glut of psychic-types and its tendency to be pressured, especially given its iffy speed, but still had a niche as a bulky, somewhat unpredictable jack-of-all-trades. mew's re-addition to the tier was a massive blow to its viability, as it's another jack-of-all-trades psychic-type that's faster and harder to exploit. necrozma does have a few advantages over mew; namely, a better ability in prism armor and access to reliable recovery, but mew's wider coverage and the fact that it can set up faster makes necrozma much harder to justify.
B+ --> B/B-webs as a playstyle just isn't very good right now. bisharp and g-zapdos running around everywhere already makes webs a tough sell, but throw in the horoark ban and the rise of dragon dance gyarados/salamence, and you've got an archetype that's really only good for cheesing low ladder. doesn't help that running webs makes it harder for you to use maushold, one of the best HO mons.
prospective rises:
B --> B+gastrodon loves the rise of volcanion and suicune thanks to storm drain, and in a tier with very few spikes setters as well as scant removal, it shines even brighter. its typing is phenomenal, especially given the tier's lack of (offensive) grass-types, and it can also serve as a blanket check to annoyances like krookodile and magnezone. i largely agree with what rarelyme has to say about gastrodon, but i think it's a wee bit too passive to be a- material. still a pretty good mon, and a lot better than most of the b-ranked shitters
B+ --> A-oricorio is essentially the second coming of yanmega, trading a bit of offensive prowess for unpredictability and longevity. as seen in rupl, there is a good amount of room for experimentation with tera types due to revelation dance's wacky (read: bs) interactions with terastallization. it can fit pretty well on other offense types that aren't hyper offensive either, so it's not a pure HO cheese mon. rich evans sums it up best
A- --> Ai don't have much to add about g-weezing that others haven't already said. great physical blanket check and a decent role compressor with will-o-wisp and defog. similar to gastrodon it's a bit too passive for A+, but still a very good mon
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I hear slate starts in a week so I guess I'll do a couple final noms so the VR can be relevant till it gets its next update in fucking June so enjoy
-> C
I know I've dogged on this thing, but after messing around with it, it's quite nice. Cell Slam + Ice punch is quality coverage on its own and with protect you can scout gapdos's click to revenge or scout your tera; and you can respond in kind. Resisting pompom stabs is nice and its not like this thing is particularly frail. Being a BB resist is also nice for HO teams, and with spikes being free as hell with lead mew / lass, this thing can get alot of easy kills. It's nice, and you can't tell me this isn't more useful than like, over half of C rank so.
-> C
Ninetales is not a whole rank higher than Torkoal and Venusaur isn't going to be sitting higher than their setter so down to C they go.
-> UR
Nicheless. "Oh tera blast electric is fire though" yeah why sink tera on a mon who is fighting for a spot on HO with a fuckton of other actually GOOD water types when I can use Feraligatr, Gyarados or even Drednaw instead. Gyara needs no introductions, SD Gatr absolutely mauls Quagsires for HO to take advantage of and Drednaw is literally this but without the tera reliance so why are we using this.
-> C
See above.
-> B
People realized this RUPL that Pert is actually quite nice on some offensive teams and used it nicely. 10 uses and 50% winrate isn't groundbreaking, but I think its quite clear now that Swampert has some gas left in the tank to make it worth jumping above the B- crop. (Of those who should actually be B- to begin with, if ya'll dont raise gallade this slate I'm gonna need that justified)
-> Agreement with above
Self explanitory. All of the noms here have my exact support.. except pawmot B is a crazy overshoot you can B- or C+ though. Shits good but not that good.
-> C+
Rarelyme posted above about Terrakion to B+ and I gotta admit... That was so LENIENT on this guy. Genuinely borders on worthless into HO, its suicide lead shtick is pretty usurped by Mew in value and as a breaker... bro this shit is garbage. "Oh but you haven't peeped SD Tera Grass Blast shit is fire bro" yeah its fire all right. But why would I sink my Tera into something that when I can load one of the other myriad of fighting types who dont have insane tera reliance like yknow, all of them bar Lucario? As an offensive Rock Type, I'd rather use Duskroc at this stage because of Accelrock providing it with Armarouge insurance and having a way better HO and Gapdos MU, plus speed-tieing with stuff like Gengar is valuable. Also hits like a truck so like, where does this leave Terrakion? Outclassed and mediocore on its best days. I know C+ is a colossal drop but this VR is colossally fucking outdated and hasn't seen an update in 2 months so I think this type of nom is acceptable.
-> B-
See above.
-> A
Has Wo-Chien soloing a metric ton of games with the resttalk set finally let people see this is A rank material yet? Who cares if its a tera captain because you can legit tera this turn 1 in some games and legit go unpunished for it because Wo-Chien brings that much to the table as a wall. It's not like its useless without tera either. Legion, Slowbro, and other threats get walled to eternity by this thing. Like what more evidence do we need? As for Gengar, H-Zoro is gone and its free real estate for it. It's movepool is pretty much unending and while it doesn't have the cheese factor its got even better power and has a ton of utility like Encore, Dbond and Twave. Might be a lil premature but I think it'll be A material in like 1-2 weeks of people giving it a shot, lord knows this VR won't get updated till right before shifts in July so hey.
-> A-
SD Gatr seperates itself from competing with Gyara as a water nuke that absolutely mauls anything without a chester or Wo-Chien. The choice between Crunch and Ice punch is up to preference really, though Crunch is better in most cases. Tera Water liquidations just fucking melt anything even without an SD and this type of immediate power is invaluable for HO and offensive structures.
-> A-
Rhyperior I love you but the G-Weez train has knocked you out of A ranks quite convincingly, not much else to really say. Hippowdon I've been quite hard on and have called it B / B+. I'll settle for A- right now because I'm not hugely convinced its down to B+ in quality but it being A rank still is just a joke lmao
I know I've dogged on this thing, but after messing around with it, it's quite nice. Cell Slam + Ice punch is quality coverage on its own and with protect you can scout gapdos's click to revenge or scout your tera; and you can respond in kind. Resisting pompom stabs is nice and its not like this thing is particularly frail. Being a BB resist is also nice for HO teams, and with spikes being free as hell with lead mew / lass, this thing can get alot of easy kills. It's nice, and you can't tell me this isn't more useful than like, over half of C rank so.
Ninetales is not a whole rank higher than Torkoal and Venusaur isn't going to be sitting higher than their setter so down to C they go.
Nicheless. "Oh tera blast electric is fire though" yeah why sink tera on a mon who is fighting for a spot on HO with a fuckton of other actually GOOD water types when I can use Feraligatr, Gyarados or even Drednaw instead. Gyara needs no introductions, SD Gatr absolutely mauls Quagsires for HO to take advantage of and Drednaw is literally this but without the tera reliance so why are we using this.
See above.
People realized this RUPL that Pert is actually quite nice on some offensive teams and used it nicely. 10 uses and 50% winrate isn't groundbreaking, but I think its quite clear now that Swampert has some gas left in the tank to make it worth jumping above the B- crop. (Of those who should actually be B- to begin with, if ya'll dont raise gallade this slate I'm gonna need that justified)
Self explanitory. All of the noms here have my exact support.. except pawmot B is a crazy overshoot you can B- or C+ though. Shits good but not that good.
Rarelyme posted above about Terrakion to B+ and I gotta admit... That was so LENIENT on this guy. Genuinely borders on worthless into HO, its suicide lead shtick is pretty usurped by Mew in value and as a breaker... bro this shit is garbage. "Oh but you haven't peeped SD Tera Grass Blast shit is fire bro" yeah its fire all right. But why would I sink my Tera into something that when I can load one of the other myriad of fighting types who dont have insane tera reliance like yknow, all of them bar Lucario? As an offensive Rock Type, I'd rather use Duskroc at this stage because of Accelrock providing it with Armarouge insurance and having a way better HO and Gapdos MU, plus speed-tieing with stuff like Gengar is valuable. Also hits like a truck so like, where does this leave Terrakion? Outclassed and mediocore on its best days. I know C+ is a colossal drop but this VR is colossally fucking outdated and hasn't seen an update in 2 months so I think this type of nom is acceptable.
See above.
Has Wo-Chien soloing a metric ton of games with the resttalk set finally let people see this is A rank material yet? Who cares if its a tera captain because you can legit tera this turn 1 in some games and legit go unpunished for it because Wo-Chien brings that much to the table as a wall. It's not like its useless without tera either. Legion, Slowbro, and other threats get walled to eternity by this thing. Like what more evidence do we need? As for Gengar, H-Zoro is gone and its free real estate for it. It's movepool is pretty much unending and while it doesn't have the cheese factor its got even better power and has a ton of utility like Encore, Dbond and Twave. Might be a lil premature but I think it'll be A material in like 1-2 weeks of people giving it a shot, lord knows this VR won't get updated till right before shifts in July so hey.
SD Gatr seperates itself from competing with Gyara as a water nuke that absolutely mauls anything without a chester or Wo-Chien. The choice between Crunch and Ice punch is up to preference really, though Crunch is better in most cases. Tera Water liquidations just fucking melt anything even without an SD and this type of immediate power is invaluable for HO and offensive structures.
Rhyperior I love you but the G-Weez train has knocked you out of A ranks quite convincingly, not much else to really say. Hippowdon I've been quite hard on and have called it B / B+. I'll settle for A- right now because I'm not hugely convinced its down to B+ in quality but it being A rank still is just a joke lmao
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I'll also make the following nominations.
B- -> B/B+
Okay, so others have talked about gastrodon, but the other water grounds deserve a raise (quagsire more then swampert I think, but swampert ain't no slouch). Quagsire is the other water/ground you use if you want to stonewall sweepers easily, which is really nice in the tier where setup sweepers are really popular rn. Its access to toxic also makes it a lot more threatening to switch into, as something like umbreon which can switch into gastrodon no problem has to be cautious around quagsire. It also can diversify its moveset a decent amount if you drop spikes (klefki or chesnaught are good partners), with whirpool, counter and toxic spikes among other options. Swampert meanwhile, is one of offense's best defensive pokemon (as weird as that sounds). Its ability to softcheck mamoswine is amazing as otherwise the playstyle can struggle at times to switch into its moves. Swampert can keep up momentum for its team via flip turn while making good progress with stealth rocks and knock off or roar.
A+ -> A
When I said this opinion in RUcord, I thought that I would be met with heavy backlash. But people said while they disagree with the take, they can at least see it. So I'm here to make an official nomination. Bisharp is still great, but not A+ tier great. It struggles now more then ever with pokemon such as quagsire, chesnaught and umbreon in the tier to at the very least stonewall it. But the other issue is, that its just not consistent at sweeping. Encore jirachi is better then ever and stops a bisharp sweep in its tracks if it ever clicks SD or sucker punch, while sub krookodile has been seeing usage which stuffs the hell out of a sucker punch sweep. Most teams now have multiple answers to it, meaning a surprise tera flying on a ground is a lot less impactful when you probably have a wisp geezing in the back to stop it. I think this deserves a drop.
B- -> C+
Get this fraud ass HO lead outta here. This is not better then lead duskrock at all, and I refuse to believe it. Beating cyclizar is cool, but it is just inferior to other leads such as lycandusk and terrakion, who have either greater power, endeavour or priority.
C -> UR
(I will do these memes until vileplume is actually UR)
B- -> B/B+Okay, so others have talked about gastrodon, but the other water grounds deserve a raise (quagsire more then swampert I think, but swampert ain't no slouch). Quagsire is the other water/ground you use if you want to stonewall sweepers easily, which is really nice in the tier where setup sweepers are really popular rn. Its access to toxic also makes it a lot more threatening to switch into, as something like umbreon which can switch into gastrodon no problem has to be cautious around quagsire. It also can diversify its moveset a decent amount if you drop spikes (klefki or chesnaught are good partners), with whirpool, counter and toxic spikes among other options. Swampert meanwhile, is one of offense's best defensive pokemon (as weird as that sounds). Its ability to softcheck mamoswine is amazing as otherwise the playstyle can struggle at times to switch into its moves. Swampert can keep up momentum for its team via flip turn while making good progress with stealth rocks and knock off or roar.
A+ -> AWhen I said this opinion in RUcord, I thought that I would be met with heavy backlash. But people said while they disagree with the take, they can at least see it. So I'm here to make an official nomination. Bisharp is still great, but not A+ tier great. It struggles now more then ever with pokemon such as quagsire, chesnaught and umbreon in the tier to at the very least stonewall it. But the other issue is, that its just not consistent at sweeping. Encore jirachi is better then ever and stops a bisharp sweep in its tracks if it ever clicks SD or sucker punch, while sub krookodile has been seeing usage which stuffs the hell out of a sucker punch sweep. Most teams now have multiple answers to it, meaning a surprise tera flying on a ground is a lot less impactful when you probably have a wisp geezing in the back to stop it. I think this deserves a drop.
B- -> C+Get this fraud ass HO lead outta here. This is not better then lead duskrock at all, and I refuse to believe it. Beating cyclizar is cool, but it is just inferior to other leads such as lycandusk and terrakion, who have either greater power, endeavour or priority.
C -> UR(I will do these memes until vileplume is actually UR)
Wasn't planning on writing this but insomnia is real or something idk. Going to just talk about stuff that belongs in B or better for now.
Drops:
A+ -> A
Krookodile is still a great Scarfer and has upside with both its Taunt sets and more offensive stuff in CB or BU... but it's not a top eight mon and seems to hang out better with the A's. Likewise, Mamoswine is something you should account for in the builder, but it lost its best teammate in Horo and is not putting up performances worthy of its high ranking. Slither Wing is still one of my favorite mons in the tier and can put in work, but it's difficult to justify an A+ at the moment.
A -> A-
Offensive Empoleon is barely an A- threat, but it's a fine ranking for me - I don't rate the defensive sets as high but it works. Rhyperior is an effective rocker and trader, capable of usually going 1:1+ in most matchups, but isn't putting up the type of games worthy of an A mon to me.
A- -> B / B+
What is Flygon doing so high still? It's an okay option at best but generally outclassed by too many Ground- and Dragon-types to warrant this rating (or usage!), so it belongs in B. Gengar benefits from Horo leaving but the current A- is quite high, so B+ is a fine drop for a mon I've used a lot to some success.
B+ -> B/B-
Gligar is a fine B rank mon, still a nice defensive pivot that can fit either hazard and help soft check a lot of stuff, but it's not doing enough to warrant B+. Likewise, I am indifferent to Vaporeon dropping to either of B or B-, but it doesn't belong in B+ when it struggles to check the Water-types it should be checking and can't really Wish pass well.
Rises:
A+ -> S
This thing is still so damn obnoxious to check consistently and is inarguably a top two mon to me. It consistently shreds balance and bulky offense cores, disrupts fat stuff, and trades very well with offense because of how bulky it is.
A -> A+
I mentioned before that Feliburn had convinced me that Specs Noivern was legit - in this meta it still works fine, but Super Fang + Psychic Noise is absurdly powerful and warrants the bump to A+.
A- -> A
Reuniclus has four major sets to me (OTR, LO Recover + 3atk, CM, bulky knock + twave) and they're all so good. This is a top status absorber and is super splashable overall, totally warrants a bump. Likewise, Wo-Chien has seen a ton of great usage lately, with Ghost RestTalk being so obnoxiously effective at being impossible to kill.
B -> A
Okay, maybe a bit generous here, but both Entei and Gastrodon are way too low. Tera Blast Grass Entei is insanely busted at breaking up the good balance and bulky offense cores while offering tremendous upside as a priority cleaner and trader given its bulk. Gastrodon is such a great Spike setter and really effective given it can run either physical or special bulk depending on what you pair it with; both are solid options and this flexibility warrants the grade to me.
B- -> B/B+
These two fat bastards deserve a fat raise for what they do. Chansey fits on a lot of teams well since it can afford to run Healing Wish so gracefully for a plethora of teammates while also checking basically every special attacker. Quagsire, meanwhile, is just anti-bullshit and punishes most setup spam, although it is susceptible to stuff like RestoChesto Gyarados and Salamence and Taunt mons like Fezandipiti and PomPom. Still a great mon though and blanks enough stuff with ease to get a bump.
UR -> B
I don't get how my previous nomination didn't get this to at least be ranked, but surely we've seen this little fella farm enough games to know it's legit. Insane STAB coverage in CC, Double Shock, and Mach Punch to go alongside a ton of options like Knock Off, Revival Blessing, Volt Switch, etc. I unironically think this could go as high as B+ but will settle for a more realistic B if needed.
Other brief mentions:
Porygon-Z, Swampert, and sometimes Rotom-H feel like B mons, but I can't be assed to explain it in detail. Gallade and Chesnaught could go B+ but they both require some care to build and play with. Breloom to B has my support, same for Bellibolt and Infernape. SubLurk might be B+ if you're feeling spicy. Barraskewda and Cresselia could go A-, Feraligatr too but that I'm less passionate about. Galarian Weezing could go A and I wouldn't be opposed, same for Registeel.
Drops:
A+ -> AKrookodile is still a great Scarfer and has upside with both its Taunt sets and more offensive stuff in CB or BU... but it's not a top eight mon and seems to hang out better with the A's. Likewise, Mamoswine is something you should account for in the builder, but it lost its best teammate in Horo and is not putting up performances worthy of its high ranking. Slither Wing is still one of my favorite mons in the tier and can put in work, but it's difficult to justify an A+ at the moment.
A -> A-Offensive Empoleon is barely an A- threat, but it's a fine ranking for me - I don't rate the defensive sets as high but it works. Rhyperior is an effective rocker and trader, capable of usually going 1:1+ in most matchups, but isn't putting up the type of games worthy of an A mon to me.
A- -> B / B+What is Flygon doing so high still? It's an okay option at best but generally outclassed by too many Ground- and Dragon-types to warrant this rating (or usage!), so it belongs in B. Gengar benefits from Horo leaving but the current A- is quite high, so B+ is a fine drop for a mon I've used a lot to some success.
B+ -> B/B-Gligar is a fine B rank mon, still a nice defensive pivot that can fit either hazard and help soft check a lot of stuff, but it's not doing enough to warrant B+. Likewise, I am indifferent to Vaporeon dropping to either of B or B-, but it doesn't belong in B+ when it struggles to check the Water-types it should be checking and can't really Wish pass well.
Rises:
A+ -> SThis thing is still so damn obnoxious to check consistently and is inarguably a top two mon to me. It consistently shreds balance and bulky offense cores, disrupts fat stuff, and trades very well with offense because of how bulky it is.
A -> A+I mentioned before that Feliburn had convinced me that Specs Noivern was legit - in this meta it still works fine, but Super Fang + Psychic Noise is absurdly powerful and warrants the bump to A+.
A- -> AReuniclus has four major sets to me (OTR, LO Recover + 3atk, CM, bulky knock + twave) and they're all so good. This is a top status absorber and is super splashable overall, totally warrants a bump. Likewise, Wo-Chien has seen a ton of great usage lately, with Ghost RestTalk being so obnoxiously effective at being impossible to kill.
B -> AOkay, maybe a bit generous here, but both Entei and Gastrodon are way too low. Tera Blast Grass Entei is insanely busted at breaking up the good balance and bulky offense cores while offering tremendous upside as a priority cleaner and trader given its bulk. Gastrodon is such a great Spike setter and really effective given it can run either physical or special bulk depending on what you pair it with; both are solid options and this flexibility warrants the grade to me.
B- -> B/B+These two fat bastards deserve a fat raise for what they do. Chansey fits on a lot of teams well since it can afford to run Healing Wish so gracefully for a plethora of teammates while also checking basically every special attacker. Quagsire, meanwhile, is just anti-bullshit and punishes most setup spam, although it is susceptible to stuff like RestoChesto Gyarados and Salamence and Taunt mons like Fezandipiti and PomPom. Still a great mon though and blanks enough stuff with ease to get a bump.
UR -> BI don't get how my previous nomination didn't get this to at least be ranked, but surely we've seen this little fella farm enough games to know it's legit. Insane STAB coverage in CC, Double Shock, and Mach Punch to go alongside a ton of options like Knock Off, Revival Blessing, Volt Switch, etc. I unironically think this could go as high as B+ but will settle for a more realistic B if needed.
Other brief mentions:
Porygon-Z, Swampert, and sometimes Rotom-H feel like B mons, but I can't be assed to explain it in detail. Gallade and Chesnaught could go B+ but they both require some care to build and play with. Breloom to B has my support, same for Bellibolt and Infernape. SubLurk might be B+ if you're feeling spicy. Barraskewda and Cresselia could go A-, Feraligatr too but that I'm less passionate about. Galarian Weezing could go A and I wouldn't be opposed, same for Registeel.
Hi guys, I wanted to write this post in order to talk about a pokemon that is a bit underrated right now and that I discovered recently.
->C+/B- Nobody is talking about Tsareena at the moment but I think it has a decent niche as an offensive spinner that doesn't really care about spinblock thanks to its great attack and its access to Knock Off. It can be pretty hard to check it if it runs Triple Axel without Weezing Galar, Tera Poison Slowbro or Bisharp. Queenly Majesty paired with High Jump Kick can help Tsareena become a great Bisharp revenge killer or just punish them if they want to set up on you. But its strongest attribute is that in the RarelyUsed metagame there are a lot of Ground-types that let him come in easely without drowback and let it do its thing such as Hippowdon, Gastrodon or Quagsire which can be really good in some teams who need solid hazard control without losing against ghost pokemons or being really passive. However this pokemon is pretty slow and is a mono grass type which can be a bit hard to justify in a team.
with the bird banned, let's take an opportunity to look at some other noms:
UR --> C+/B-
the former princess of RU has found new life in the tier; not as a wall, but rather an offensive threat. as Canard's RMT demonstrates, diancie is a rising star on hyper offense, being arguably the archetype's best answer to gapdos. fairy is a busted offensive typing and its excellent coverage combined with the ability to neuter and eliminate faster threats that HO otherwise struggles with (the aforementioned gapdos, dd mence/gyarados, etc.) makes it a surprisingly solid choice. its awkward defensive typing and bad HP combined with the existence of Hoodra prevents it from being a staple, but it's a lot better than a good chunk of the shitters on the VR. speaking of...
B- --> C/UR
yeah this guy is an absolute master of none; even with a strong offensive typing and colorful movepool, its lacking offenses and awkward speed tier means that it'll do tickle damage at best before dying to an unresisted move above 60 power. doesn't help that there's tough competition among fighting types, with mienshao and The Roadrunner making infernape an even tougher sell. i guess special sets could have a tiny niche with the tier's lack of special walls (esp with vacuum wave), but again infernape just doesn't have the muscle to get past big boys like hoodra
B --> B+
a much better fire type with priority, entei hits hard, spreads burn, and picks off cheapo guys like armarouge. i think it was ranked b when people were mainly using banded sets, which eat shit and die upon entering the field if rocks/spikes are up. with the rising popularity of hdb sets entei can actually come in on stuff thanks to its surprisingly solid bulk and force guys like jirachi and registeel out, letting teammates take advantage of the switchin opportunities it creates as well as sacred fire's stupid 50% burn rate. if gastrodon and quagsire weren't rising in popularity, it'd be a solid a-, but the prevalence of said mons (+guys like slowbro and suicune) prevents it from going any higher
A --> A-
the horoark ban really shined a big light on cyclizar's issues; it's passive as all hell and ripe for exploitation by common mons such as bisharp, hoodra, gardevoir, fezandipiti, and just about any tera fairy setup sweeper (mew, armarouge, non-choiced gengar, reuniclus, etc). with cyc's middling natural bulk, it's basically mandated to run assault vest to not get one shot by special attackers like magnezone, which in turn leaves it vulnerable to spikes stack teams. this is in stark contrast to noivern (forces progress with super fang and/or taunt) and geezing (has actual natural bulk), both of whom are also immune to spikes. with hazard removal being absolutely dire this generation (+being a ghost resist that can actually take on gengar and hersculegion), it def has its place in the meta, but not any higher than a-
A --> A-
pretty much what LBN said about it, the only thing i have to add is that oricorio-pompom's ban was a massive boon to it, as it no longer has to worry about taunt variants using it as free setup. as such, i think b+ or lower is too harsh; a- is perfectly fine for it
UR --> C+/B-the former princess of RU has found new life in the tier; not as a wall, but rather an offensive threat. as Canard's RMT demonstrates, diancie is a rising star on hyper offense, being arguably the archetype's best answer to gapdos. fairy is a busted offensive typing and its excellent coverage combined with the ability to neuter and eliminate faster threats that HO otherwise struggles with (the aforementioned gapdos, dd mence/gyarados, etc.) makes it a surprisingly solid choice. its awkward defensive typing and bad HP combined with the existence of Hoodra prevents it from being a staple, but it's a lot better than a good chunk of the shitters on the VR. speaking of...
B- --> C/URyeah this guy is an absolute master of none; even with a strong offensive typing and colorful movepool, its lacking offenses and awkward speed tier means that it'll do tickle damage at best before dying to an unresisted move above 60 power. doesn't help that there's tough competition among fighting types, with mienshao and The Roadrunner making infernape an even tougher sell. i guess special sets could have a tiny niche with the tier's lack of special walls (esp with vacuum wave), but again infernape just doesn't have the muscle to get past big boys like hoodra
B --> B+a much better fire type with priority, entei hits hard, spreads burn, and picks off cheapo guys like armarouge. i think it was ranked b when people were mainly using banded sets, which eat shit and die upon entering the field if rocks/spikes are up. with the rising popularity of hdb sets entei can actually come in on stuff thanks to its surprisingly solid bulk and force guys like jirachi and registeel out, letting teammates take advantage of the switchin opportunities it creates as well as sacred fire's stupid 50% burn rate. if gastrodon and quagsire weren't rising in popularity, it'd be a solid a-, but the prevalence of said mons (+guys like slowbro and suicune) prevents it from going any higher
A --> A-the horoark ban really shined a big light on cyclizar's issues; it's passive as all hell and ripe for exploitation by common mons such as bisharp, hoodra, gardevoir, fezandipiti, and just about any tera fairy setup sweeper (mew, armarouge, non-choiced gengar, reuniclus, etc). with cyc's middling natural bulk, it's basically mandated to run assault vest to not get one shot by special attackers like magnezone, which in turn leaves it vulnerable to spikes stack teams. this is in stark contrast to noivern (forces progress with super fang and/or taunt) and geezing (has actual natural bulk), both of whom are also immune to spikes. with hazard removal being absolutely dire this generation (+being a ghost resist that can actually take on gengar and hersculegion), it def has its place in the meta, but not any higher than a-
A --> A-pretty much what LBN said about it, the only thing i have to add is that oricorio-pompom's ban was a massive boon to it, as it no longer has to worry about taunt variants using it as free setup. as such, i think b+ or lower is too harsh; a- is perfectly fine for it
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Alright! This time, i bear different news. VR Update time ladies and gentlemen! Proxy posting this time, here are our new updates!
-> RUBL
-> A
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A- -> B-
A- -> B+
A- -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C
C+ -> C
C -> UR
A -> A+
(Galar) A- -> A+
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> A
B ->A-
B -> B+
B- -> B
C+ -> B
UR -> B-
UR -> C
There were some good changes in the last slate, but there is still more to be done.
B- -> C+/C
Lets have the uncomfortable milotic chat. Look, I love milotic, but this mon is dogass. Now, it may not look bad at a first glance, but when you start looking at the rest of the tier, you realise that milotic doesn't really offer anything unique really. The only two things it offers is mirror coat (which any competent player should be playing around when they see it in team preview) and one turn recovery without a dark weakness (which like, slowbro already takes knock offs easily, so this isn't really worth it). Realistically, you are going to choose every other water type before this. Slowbro has regen and more utility options, gastrodon has a ground typing along with hazards, empoleon has a steel typing, knock off and decent coverage if you go offensive, quagsire has toxic, hazards and unaware, vaporeon has wish. Yeah, just every other water outclasses it. I'm leaning more C+ because on its own its fine, but honestly would not care if it is ranked C.
C+ -> B-/B
Idk why this mon is so low, it is not that bad lmfao. I'm going to put my own biases aside (if you don't know, I think this mon is amazing) and explain the qualities it brings to the table (its at least better then dogass milo). Vaporeon is one of the single best checks to suicune in the tier, which for balance teams, can otherwise be an immense struggle since with pressure and CM, it can shut down a lot of counterplay. Vaporeon can haze away the boosts (or roar if you use it on a spikes structure) and pivot to teammates such as cyclizar that can take a scald and then precede to pp stall suicune back. The only suicune set it really fears is tera blast electric variants, but those are a lot less common as of now. It also can wishpass to teammates to keep them healthy, which pokemon such as hoodra and registeel really appreciate, as they can take hits for much longer. Haze in general means that vaporeon can stuff a lot of setup sweepers alongside scald, making it a great catch all anti bullshit mon. Now, it does struggle with volcanion immensly (though just pair it with something like noivern for that tbh, and thats fine), so I'm putting it B-/B as of now, but come on, this is not C+ material. Its not as bad as Deo-D and palossand.
B- -> B/B+
Okay, so flygon at A- was a bit too high ranking, but B- is a criminal under-ranking I think. Flygon can utilise a decent amount of sets, from Dragon Dance, to Choice Scarf, to even Choice Band. However, the main set I will be talking about is the offensive rocker set. With this moveset, Flygon carves out a solid niche in the tier. It can keep up momentum for offensive teams via U-turn, while dealing decent damage with STAB earthquake. It can then choose between either scale shot with loaded dice to act as an cleaner/speed control if needed, while psychic noise can heavily bully walls such as Geezing that it might otherwise struggle with. This can be very nice for more offensively leaning teams as getting any guarenteed damage on geezing is massive for them, specially fighting type breakers such as Gapdos or setup sweepers such as Gyarados. Its not always going to be a standout mon, but it is one that will put in work game to game.
C -> C+
After trying out snow (which cetitan is mandatory on), this is so much better then the C tier crap. The main issue with snow and cetitan in general is that you have to build around two rock weak ice types, but if you make the herculean task of doing this (which tbh is just using espeon and having one or two general good tanks that work on offense, stuff like krook and cyclizar work well for this), then you will get a massive reward. A +6 cetitan is one of the scariest things in the world to face, as simply put not a lot of teams have answers to it. With tera fire, you can set up on both talonflame and geezing, and with ice shard you can keep the sweep going after snow has gone. Its really, really good if you setup, and I think it warrants a small rise.
C -> UR
Look, I'm one of the people who think sun is decent. But scovillain is not it. Yes, it has some of the most powerful attacks under the sun (get it?), but realistically its a rocks weak pokemon if it uses a boosting item (whether that be specs or LO, and the powerful attacks are why you use it in the first place, so if its not OHKO'ing things then its not worthwhile), with defenses that would make paper look tough (this shitter is 2hit ko'd by gastro eq, that is seriously pathetic). But realistically, venusaur or hilligant are better chlorophyll sweepers, and fitting scovillain alongside them is not possible and still creating a functioning team. After setter, chlorophyll sweeper, slither, hazard control, you only have two slots to fit any defensive pokemon or any other sun abuser, which will probably provide more defensive utility. Sure, it does damage, but that is not what sun needs, it needs stability, of which scovillain provides none.
(ignore that it recently won an RUGL game, tbh venu would have done the exact same shit and I stand by that claim)
UR -> C+
Fuck you Canard I ain't nomming it any higher then C+. Cool HO pokemon that helps against gapdos along with good damage output, but has awkward synergies due to TR and a bit of a tera hog due to its typing. Defensive sets... exist ig, but aren't really used since there is a lot of competition.
UR -> C
It is criminal that this mon still isn't ranked. Sableye mainly finds its niche on stall teams, though balance teams can also use it. There, it can utilise priority wisp, encore and recover to be an insanely annoying pokemon for offensive teams to deal with, with bulkier playstyles not enjoying knock off. Its also been featured on a few sample stall teams, which shows that its effectiveness is very much not a recent thing. Just a good all around mon.
B- -> C+/CLets have the uncomfortable milotic chat. Look, I love milotic, but this mon is dogass. Now, it may not look bad at a first glance, but when you start looking at the rest of the tier, you realise that milotic doesn't really offer anything unique really. The only two things it offers is mirror coat (which any competent player should be playing around when they see it in team preview) and one turn recovery without a dark weakness (which like, slowbro already takes knock offs easily, so this isn't really worth it). Realistically, you are going to choose every other water type before this. Slowbro has regen and more utility options, gastrodon has a ground typing along with hazards, empoleon has a steel typing, knock off and decent coverage if you go offensive, quagsire has toxic, hazards and unaware, vaporeon has wish. Yeah, just every other water outclasses it. I'm leaning more C+ because on its own its fine, but honestly would not care if it is ranked C.
C+ -> B-/BIdk why this mon is so low, it is not that bad lmfao. I'm going to put my own biases aside (if you don't know, I think this mon is amazing) and explain the qualities it brings to the table (its at least better then dogass milo). Vaporeon is one of the single best checks to suicune in the tier, which for balance teams, can otherwise be an immense struggle since with pressure and CM, it can shut down a lot of counterplay. Vaporeon can haze away the boosts (or roar if you use it on a spikes structure) and pivot to teammates such as cyclizar that can take a scald and then precede to pp stall suicune back. The only suicune set it really fears is tera blast electric variants, but those are a lot less common as of now. It also can wishpass to teammates to keep them healthy, which pokemon such as hoodra and registeel really appreciate, as they can take hits for much longer. Haze in general means that vaporeon can stuff a lot of setup sweepers alongside scald, making it a great catch all anti bullshit mon. Now, it does struggle with volcanion immensly (though just pair it with something like noivern for that tbh, and thats fine), so I'm putting it B-/B as of now, but come on, this is not C+ material. Its not as bad as Deo-D and palossand.
B- -> B/B+Okay, so flygon at A- was a bit too high ranking, but B- is a criminal under-ranking I think. Flygon can utilise a decent amount of sets, from Dragon Dance, to Choice Scarf, to even Choice Band. However, the main set I will be talking about is the offensive rocker set. With this moveset, Flygon carves out a solid niche in the tier. It can keep up momentum for offensive teams via U-turn, while dealing decent damage with STAB earthquake. It can then choose between either scale shot with loaded dice to act as an cleaner/speed control if needed, while psychic noise can heavily bully walls such as Geezing that it might otherwise struggle with. This can be very nice for more offensively leaning teams as getting any guarenteed damage on geezing is massive for them, specially fighting type breakers such as Gapdos or setup sweepers such as Gyarados. Its not always going to be a standout mon, but it is one that will put in work game to game.
C -> C+After trying out snow (which cetitan is mandatory on), this is so much better then the C tier crap. The main issue with snow and cetitan in general is that you have to build around two rock weak ice types, but if you make the herculean task of doing this (which tbh is just using espeon and having one or two general good tanks that work on offense, stuff like krook and cyclizar work well for this), then you will get a massive reward. A +6 cetitan is one of the scariest things in the world to face, as simply put not a lot of teams have answers to it. With tera fire, you can set up on both talonflame and geezing, and with ice shard you can keep the sweep going after snow has gone. Its really, really good if you setup, and I think it warrants a small rise.
C -> URLook, I'm one of the people who think sun is decent. But scovillain is not it. Yes, it has some of the most powerful attacks under the sun (get it?), but realistically its a rocks weak pokemon if it uses a boosting item (whether that be specs or LO, and the powerful attacks are why you use it in the first place, so if its not OHKO'ing things then its not worthwhile), with defenses that would make paper look tough (this shitter is 2hit ko'd by gastro eq, that is seriously pathetic). But realistically, venusaur or hilligant are better chlorophyll sweepers, and fitting scovillain alongside them is not possible and still creating a functioning team. After setter, chlorophyll sweeper, slither, hazard control, you only have two slots to fit any defensive pokemon or any other sun abuser, which will probably provide more defensive utility. Sure, it does damage, but that is not what sun needs, it needs stability, of which scovillain provides none.
(ignore that it recently won an RUGL game, tbh venu would have done the exact same shit and I stand by that claim)
UR -> C+Fuck you Canard I ain't nomming it any higher then C+. Cool HO pokemon that helps against gapdos along with good damage output, but has awkward synergies due to TR and a bit of a tera hog due to its typing. Defensive sets... exist ig, but aren't really used since there is a lot of competition.
UR -> CIt is criminal that this mon still isn't ranked. Sableye mainly finds its niche on stall teams, though balance teams can also use it. There, it can utilise priority wisp, encore and recover to be an insanely annoying pokemon for offensive teams to deal with, with bulkier playstyles not enjoying knock off. Its also been featured on a few sample stall teams, which shows that its effectiveness is very much not a recent thing. Just a good all around mon.
New shifts, new noms.
UR -> B
Blissey is basically chansey, but without the absolute crippling hazard weakness, which to say wasn't a good thing for chansey. A rank above where chansey is ranked rn I think is a fair start, its less bulky on the physical side, but everything else (actual special attack, ability to hold boots, much less weak to knock off) is an upgrade.
A -> A+
Yeah, geezing leaving helped this so much, as you don't have to auto include gunk shot to deal with it. To give you an idea of how much geezing impacted krook, in the krookodile analysis geezing was mentioned 18 times. Thats almost as much as the three rising combined had in other analyses'. So yeah, it was very impactful. Now that last slot can be used for anything else, gunk is still good to slam grasses and spread poison ofc, but other options such as taunt, stone edge, counter, scale shot, bulk up are now a lot more viable.
B+ -> A- / B- -> B
Now, these definetely get better with the three mons that rose, but I think for now, they only go up a subrank. Hilligant could kinda setup on geezing with tera fire, but they do improve with mons that resisted their stab combo going. But honestly, there are still a large amount of issues with these two. Hilligant has to play the lottery every time it attacks and breloom has the defenses of wet paper, along with both being weird defensively, since resisting krook's stab combo is really good, but they also are grasses that do not want to switch directly into the best water in the tier, slowbro, due to fearing a scald burn (toxic heal breloom less so, but cb and stuff are def going to rise) and not wanting to take a psynoise. I would wait a bit before we rise these higher.
B -> B+/A-
Speaking of resisting krook's stab combo, I'm honestly baffled that chesnaught has not risen up at some point. Its one of the better spike setters in the tier, it does amazingly into a lot of annoying stuff like crawdaunt and bisharp, and is a staple on stall teams at this point due to how much it opens up quagsire as it can drop spikes for something like whirlpool, counter or toxic spikes. Yeah, in general, ches is not on the level of other B rankers, its much better then that and the three rises also make it a lot better.
A- -> A
Now that geezing has left, people can stop coping that hippo wasn't good (lets be fr here, hippo was walled by geezing but so many things could setup on geezing that I question why it was A+ tier in the first place). Stop using mono-quake hippo, thats a good set, but needs support. Start running coverage. Stone edge is standard, but I've tried ice fang and even thought about thunder fang to rip through gyara (tera ofc is required). Its just such a good blanket wall, which is heavily appreciated in the tier.
B+ -> B
I need one drop nom, so here it is. Look, I've always been a cresselia hater, but can we be fr that its not B+ tier material at all. This mon is sooooo passive, and before somebody states "but t-wave doesn't make it passive" half the sweepers in the meta do not care about para. Gyarados in general laughs at para attempts, dd facade mence is still very good and with tera it can use cress as setup, cm slowbro just does not care, Iron Defense Registeel does not care etc. Now, how do you get around said passiveness? Well, two ways, trick scarf or cm. Trick scarf I do think is cress's best set, but its mostly an offense only mon as it cannot fit moonlight into its moveset, while cm is just ultimately outclassed by slowbro and reun as cm psychics, with there damage output being so much higher (seriously, the damage output is incredibly pathetic even at +2. Moonblast doesn't even have good odds to OHKO krook, which isn't exactly known for its special hit-taking abilities. Meanwhile specially defensive gastro isn't 2HKO'd by either psyshock or stored power). Now, I will give cress credit, it is extremely good at hit-taking and is the only reliable mamo counter, but even as the biggest mamo hater, I struggle to use this at all. The passiveness is just so detrimental and I think it deserves a drop.
UR -> BBlissey is basically chansey, but without the absolute crippling hazard weakness, which to say wasn't a good thing for chansey. A rank above where chansey is ranked rn I think is a fair start, its less bulky on the physical side, but everything else (actual special attack, ability to hold boots, much less weak to knock off) is an upgrade.
A -> A+Yeah, geezing leaving helped this so much, as you don't have to auto include gunk shot to deal with it. To give you an idea of how much geezing impacted krook, in the krookodile analysis geezing was mentioned 18 times. Thats almost as much as the three rising combined had in other analyses'. So yeah, it was very impactful. Now that last slot can be used for anything else, gunk is still good to slam grasses and spread poison ofc, but other options such as taunt, stone edge, counter, scale shot, bulk up are now a lot more viable.
B+ -> A- / B- -> BNow, these definetely get better with the three mons that rose, but I think for now, they only go up a subrank. Hilligant could kinda setup on geezing with tera fire, but they do improve with mons that resisted their stab combo going. But honestly, there are still a large amount of issues with these two. Hilligant has to play the lottery every time it attacks and breloom has the defenses of wet paper, along with both being weird defensively, since resisting krook's stab combo is really good, but they also are grasses that do not want to switch directly into the best water in the tier, slowbro, due to fearing a scald burn (toxic heal breloom less so, but cb and stuff are def going to rise) and not wanting to take a psynoise. I would wait a bit before we rise these higher.
B -> B+/A-Speaking of resisting krook's stab combo, I'm honestly baffled that chesnaught has not risen up at some point. Its one of the better spike setters in the tier, it does amazingly into a lot of annoying stuff like crawdaunt and bisharp, and is a staple on stall teams at this point due to how much it opens up quagsire as it can drop spikes for something like whirlpool, counter or toxic spikes. Yeah, in general, ches is not on the level of other B rankers, its much better then that and the three rises also make it a lot better.
A- -> ANow that geezing has left, people can stop coping that hippo wasn't good (lets be fr here, hippo was walled by geezing but so many things could setup on geezing that I question why it was A+ tier in the first place). Stop using mono-quake hippo, thats a good set, but needs support. Start running coverage. Stone edge is standard, but I've tried ice fang and even thought about thunder fang to rip through gyara (tera ofc is required). Its just such a good blanket wall, which is heavily appreciated in the tier.
B+ -> BI need one drop nom, so here it is. Look, I've always been a cresselia hater, but can we be fr that its not B+ tier material at all. This mon is sooooo passive, and before somebody states "but t-wave doesn't make it passive" half the sweepers in the meta do not care about para. Gyarados in general laughs at para attempts, dd facade mence is still very good and with tera it can use cress as setup, cm slowbro just does not care, Iron Defense Registeel does not care etc. Now, how do you get around said passiveness? Well, two ways, trick scarf or cm. Trick scarf I do think is cress's best set, but its mostly an offense only mon as it cannot fit moonlight into its moveset, while cm is just ultimately outclassed by slowbro and reun as cm psychics, with there damage output being so much higher (seriously, the damage output is incredibly pathetic even at +2. Moonblast doesn't even have good odds to OHKO krook, which isn't exactly known for its special hit-taking abilities. Meanwhile specially defensive gastro isn't 2HKO'd by either psyshock or stored power). Now, I will give cress credit, it is extremely good at hit-taking and is the only reliable mamo counter, but even as the biggest mamo hater, I struggle to use this at all. The passiveness is just so detrimental and I think it deserves a drop.
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New meta shifts are here, and with us finally crystalizing a bit without any suspects currently planned, let's talk VR. There's alot changed with G-Weezing rising, so let's start with some obligatory stuff and move on from there.
New! -> B-
B- -> D
Think this is mostly self-explanatory really. Truthfully I pitched to VR council about a nice slate with literally just these two on it, and an interesting question was brought up. Does chansey do LITERALLY anything that Blissey does not. And actually, the answer is yes! Your armarouge mu is much better with chansey. That being said, that ain't enough not to go to D rank though. While it may be a niche, its such a microscopic niche that is outweighed by all the benefits Blissey having boots and a better speed stat brings you.
A- -> A
Both of these are prime beneficiaries of Weezing rising, especially mence. Lum DD mence being fully untethered is huge for it being a threat, and while they are adaptations (foul play slowbro for instance), this pokemon is absurdly threatening. As for hippo, its benefitting from Mence making a comeback, since its a p decent check to it and some other mons on the come-up I'll get to in other noms but yea, this thing is back.
A -> A+
This thing had like, all of its sets unlocked again with G-Weezing gone man. Scale shot memes, CB memes, Scarf memes, etc. It's one of the biggest winners of the shifts, and sending it back to A+ feels very appropriate. Not even much to say idt many people are gonna disagree w me on this.
B- -> B+
Another mon with like, all its gas back with G-Weez gone, Flygon can properly use its good clicks as a choiced attacker, and doesn't need fuckass psynoise to get stuff done. DD sets are back, CB Sets are back, scarf sets are back. B- was already a bit harsh, so sending this to B+ feels appropriate.
C -> B-
After RULT was entering it's stall era, I was searching for a Solution. A mon able to make the matchup a glorified 100-0 with my brain attached, and yknow what? I found it. Taunt Torn fucking devours fat teams so easily, especially with partnered spikes. Gastrodon spikestack is a style rising in prominence, and not only is taunt torn good on it, it's amazing at bashing those teams too. Getting free knocks and positioning on Steels/Bike is very nice team utility for things like Legion who love seeing a knocked Hoodra among others. Fantastic team player mon and I think this thing is comfortably on the same playing field as the other quality B- crop like Pawmot and Swampert.
UR -> C
I Agree w these.
C -> UR
B- -> C+
You know sometimes I remember I have to be careful with some of my noms because there are a group of people who will come for my throat at the slander of them. I say this, fully knowing the cult of lunatics on Team Bellibolt will have me taken out back behind a denny's for this affront but it's time we face facts. This shit is not B- material, and these shifts improving the value of just about every ground in the tier most certainly makes that point even more clear. Gapdos fishing is less reliable than simply using Slowbro or hippo or cress, getting a Cyclizar paralyzed isn't the hardest thing in the world with other means, and while it is quite fat and cute fat and cute does not make you get into B- otherwise snorlax is getting on this VR at mach 4. Milotic has sucked for ages it should be grateful I'm not chucking that fraud into C.
B -> B+
Shift made this age like fine wine, I don't think this one is particularly contented.
Think this is mostly self-explanatory really. Truthfully I pitched to VR council about a nice slate with literally just these two on it, and an interesting question was brought up. Does chansey do LITERALLY anything that Blissey does not. And actually, the answer is yes! Your armarouge mu is much better with chansey. That being said, that ain't enough not to go to D rank though. While it may be a niche, its such a microscopic niche that is outweighed by all the benefits Blissey having boots and a better speed stat brings you.
Both of these are prime beneficiaries of Weezing rising, especially mence. Lum DD mence being fully untethered is huge for it being a threat, and while they are adaptations (foul play slowbro for instance), this pokemon is absurdly threatening. As for hippo, its benefitting from Mence making a comeback, since its a p decent check to it and some other mons on the come-up I'll get to in other noms but yea, this thing is back.
This thing had like, all of its sets unlocked again with G-Weezing gone man. Scale shot memes, CB memes, Scarf memes, etc. It's one of the biggest winners of the shifts, and sending it back to A+ feels very appropriate. Not even much to say idt many people are gonna disagree w me on this.
Another mon with like, all its gas back with G-Weez gone, Flygon can properly use its good clicks as a choiced attacker, and doesn't need fuckass psynoise to get stuff done. DD sets are back, CB Sets are back, scarf sets are back. B- was already a bit harsh, so sending this to B+ feels appropriate.
After RULT was entering it's stall era, I was searching for a Solution. A mon able to make the matchup a glorified 100-0 with my brain attached, and yknow what? I found it. Taunt Torn fucking devours fat teams so easily, especially with partnered spikes. Gastrodon spikestack is a style rising in prominence, and not only is taunt torn good on it, it's amazing at bashing those teams too. Getting free knocks and positioning on Steels/Bike is very nice team utility for things like Legion who love seeing a knocked Hoodra among others. Fantastic team player mon and I think this thing is comfortably on the same playing field as the other quality B- crop like Pawmot and Swampert.
I Agree w these.
You know sometimes I remember I have to be careful with some of my noms because there are a group of people who will come for my throat at the slander of them. I say this, fully knowing the cult of lunatics on Team Bellibolt will have me taken out back behind a denny's for this affront but it's time we face facts. This shit is not B- material, and these shifts improving the value of just about every ground in the tier most certainly makes that point even more clear. Gapdos fishing is less reliable than simply using Slowbro or hippo or cress, getting a Cyclizar paralyzed isn't the hardest thing in the world with other means, and while it is quite fat and cute fat and cute does not make you get into B- otherwise snorlax is getting on this VR at mach 4. Milotic has sucked for ages it should be grateful I'm not chucking that fraud into C.
Shift made this age like fine wine, I don't think this one is particularly contented.
New meta, old favorites:
A+ -> S
Slowbro is and has always been the best mon in the tier. Defensively, its bulk, typing, and ability lets it check a plethora of important threats time and time again. Offensively, it can spread status with scald and thunder wave, function as a win condition with calm mind, or force progress by setting up future sight for its partners. Furthermore, thanks to regen recovery it is not as easily forced to recover as other mons, which has the dual benefit of enabling its user to play it more proactively than other defensive mons while also not being anywhere near as prone to getting PP stalled out of recover PP in longer games. Due to these qualities, Slowbro is the most splashable mon in the tier. You could fit it on almost any given team, and at almost any given point in the building process, with the exception of HO. Moreover, it performs consistently in any given match up. There just isn't such a thing as a bad match up with Slowbro. It is always useful. I can't fathom what more anyone would want out of an S-rank mon.
A -> A+
I love using Mamo. It has two immensely valuable properties. First, it can break anything with the combination of eq/crash/knock (doing so is especially easy in conjunction with future sight Bro). Second, its priority is a lifesaver into set-up mons. I can't count the amount of times where it has saved me versus a weakened Bish, Arma, Gyara, Hilligant, Maus, Mimi, Entei, Lycan, or what have you. It also helps that it provides a volt immune, and that it has a decent speed tier and alright natural bulk, as this grants it many more opportunities to break than, say, a Crawdaunt, but this is more of an added benefit than a primary reason for using it imo.
A -> A+
Another personal fav of mine. Its bulk enables it to trade and check all sorts of stuff, while it makes progress offensively by clicking Draco and Knocking all the good Draco resists (Rachi, Regi, Empo). I'm especially fond of draco/knock/protect - again this has wonderful synergy with future sight Bro - since protect grants it the option of scouting out choiced moves and gaining lefties recovery. Take your pick regarding fourth move - tbolt (empo/cune/bro), eq (empo/zone), heavy slam (umb, garde, mimi, bee), and acid spray (draco kos practically all non-resists at -2) are all good on their own terms - but just draco and knock alone is oftentimes sufficient.
A+ -> A
I don't like Noivern as much as the A+ mons. Specs is good but prediction reliant and weak to sr. Defog loses to most rockers 1v1 and needs to be wary of clicking it into Gap/Empo (granted, it's risky to hard Gap on Vern and you could build your team such that it has answers for +2 Empo). Offensive pivot sets feel alright to me but not amazing. It is certainly valuable to be faster than all non-scarfers, and having STAB Draco and U-turn will always be valuable, but I don't value it as highly as a Volc, Bish, Mamo, or Goodra.
A -> A+
I agree, Geezing leaving makes all its offensive sets better. No point in regurgitating the same arguments outlined above, but I would add that it's a great partner for future sigth Bro.
A- -> A
I don't think this mon should have dropped to A- to begin with. I've always been fond off Hippo balance. But I don't agree that Geezing rising makes any difference for it. Mons like Flygon, Pads Gap, Azelf, Noivern are more annoying for it than Geezing imo since they wall mono quake hippo and threaten to make progress, whereas Geezing just sat there. You could always hard from your Hippo to Bro or whatever and be fine versus Geezing. Moreover, if you have a future sight set by Bro, Hippo can actually force progress either with edgequake or by phazing the opponent out as they hard into, say, their own Bro to absorb future sight + eq. Finally, Geezing was a neat partner to have alongside Hippo, so I don't think it leaving affects Hippo all too much.
B- -> B+/A-
Speaking of Flygon, this mon has always been underrated imo - special and mixed sets were underexplored and good in the Geezing meta - but now it should be obvious that the rank it has is too low. With Geezing and Mence leaving, DD Flygon got a major upgrade, in that it no longer needs to run DD Tera Blast Steel for Geezing and that it lost a major source of competition in DD Mence. I would expect DD Scale Shot sets, in particular, to see more usage.
B -> B+
Benefits from both Geezing and Mence leaving. Cute option.
B -> B+
Muk is great. You just sit there and spam knock rest talk haze, walling all sorts of stuff while removing items and spreading items. I've seen some mentions of protect Muk on discord but I have not found myself in a position where I have had the luxury of using it since it generally needs rest to absorb scalds and sit on mons like Bro and Cune. Anyway, it's a defensive mon which can check a bunch of special attackers, function as a status absorber, and make progress by brainlessly clicking poison touch knock. Would highly recommend using it together with future sight Bro, in particular (notice how everything synergizes with future sight bro btw).
C -> B
Let's raise this mon in the VR. Dumping it into UR doesn't make sense. Offensively, it's decent at making progress with gunk, cc, and sd, whereas sucker is valuable to revenge set up stuff or to clean after an sd (provided things have been sufficiently weakened). Defensively, its ability enables it to function as a vincune counter and beam cune check, and it fully walls CM Bro if tera dark. I've found myself building lots of HO and BO teams with this mon, usually with balloon as the item. Try it, it's cool!
-> C
I would only consider using either of these on stall and I don't consider stall to be particularly good (although it is viable). Accordingly, I see no reason for either of these to be in the B ranks. I think it's reasonable to prefer Blissey over Chansey given that HDB is a useful tool for preventing chip but I also think the additional bulk on Chansey is sufficient to give it a niche. Staving off Armarouge is quite important imo and it can trade 1v1 vs a surprising amount of physical attackers, especially post-tera, if need be. The difference in bulk is noticable into mons like Gapdos, Mamo, Lycan, Crawdaunt, Gatr, Azelf/Mew (psyshock), and DD Necrozma, to name a few. You obviously don't want to use Chansey to trade versus these mons unless you're forced to, nor do you want to use the tera unless it's absolutely necessary, but I think it's useful to have the opportunitity to do so.
UR -> C
Diancie is cool, especially into HO. Offensive trick room with meteor beam is a pretty cool mon both for making progress and for cleaning in the end game. It's difficult to build around but in battle it tends to perform decently. Worthy of being ranked.
I don't have any thoughts on anything else atm. Obviously, what I care the most about is the high ranked mons, hence why I mentioned them first.
A+ -> SSlowbro is and has always been the best mon in the tier. Defensively, its bulk, typing, and ability lets it check a plethora of important threats time and time again. Offensively, it can spread status with scald and thunder wave, function as a win condition with calm mind, or force progress by setting up future sight for its partners. Furthermore, thanks to regen recovery it is not as easily forced to recover as other mons, which has the dual benefit of enabling its user to play it more proactively than other defensive mons while also not being anywhere near as prone to getting PP stalled out of recover PP in longer games. Due to these qualities, Slowbro is the most splashable mon in the tier. You could fit it on almost any given team, and at almost any given point in the building process, with the exception of HO. Moreover, it performs consistently in any given match up. There just isn't such a thing as a bad match up with Slowbro. It is always useful. I can't fathom what more anyone would want out of an S-rank mon.
A -> A+I love using Mamo. It has two immensely valuable properties. First, it can break anything with the combination of eq/crash/knock (doing so is especially easy in conjunction with future sight Bro). Second, its priority is a lifesaver into set-up mons. I can't count the amount of times where it has saved me versus a weakened Bish, Arma, Gyara, Hilligant, Maus, Mimi, Entei, Lycan, or what have you. It also helps that it provides a volt immune, and that it has a decent speed tier and alright natural bulk, as this grants it many more opportunities to break than, say, a Crawdaunt, but this is more of an added benefit than a primary reason for using it imo.
A -> A+Another personal fav of mine. Its bulk enables it to trade and check all sorts of stuff, while it makes progress offensively by clicking Draco and Knocking all the good Draco resists (Rachi, Regi, Empo). I'm especially fond of draco/knock/protect - again this has wonderful synergy with future sight Bro - since protect grants it the option of scouting out choiced moves and gaining lefties recovery. Take your pick regarding fourth move - tbolt (empo/cune/bro), eq (empo/zone), heavy slam (umb, garde, mimi, bee), and acid spray (draco kos practically all non-resists at -2) are all good on their own terms - but just draco and knock alone is oftentimes sufficient.
A+ -> AI don't like Noivern as much as the A+ mons. Specs is good but prediction reliant and weak to sr. Defog loses to most rockers 1v1 and needs to be wary of clicking it into Gap/Empo (granted, it's risky to hard Gap on Vern and you could build your team such that it has answers for +2 Empo). Offensive pivot sets feel alright to me but not amazing. It is certainly valuable to be faster than all non-scarfers, and having STAB Draco and U-turn will always be valuable, but I don't value it as highly as a Volc, Bish, Mamo, or Goodra.
I agree, Geezing leaving makes all its offensive sets better. No point in regurgitating the same arguments outlined above, but I would add that it's a great partner for future sigth Bro.
A- -> A
I don't think this mon should have dropped to A- to begin with. I've always been fond off Hippo balance. But I don't agree that Geezing rising makes any difference for it. Mons like Flygon, Pads Gap, Azelf, Noivern are more annoying for it than Geezing imo since they wall mono quake hippo and threaten to make progress, whereas Geezing just sat there. You could always hard from your Hippo to Bro or whatever and be fine versus Geezing. Moreover, if you have a future sight set by Bro, Hippo can actually force progress either with edgequake or by phazing the opponent out as they hard into, say, their own Bro to absorb future sight + eq. Finally, Geezing was a neat partner to have alongside Hippo, so I don't think it leaving affects Hippo all too much.
B- -> B+/A-
Speaking of Flygon, this mon has always been underrated imo - special and mixed sets were underexplored and good in the Geezing meta - but now it should be obvious that the rank it has is too low. With Geezing and Mence leaving, DD Flygon got a major upgrade, in that it no longer needs to run DD Tera Blast Steel for Geezing and that it lost a major source of competition in DD Mence. I would expect DD Scale Shot sets, in particular, to see more usage.
Benefits from both Geezing and Mence leaving. Cute option.
B -> B+Muk is great. You just sit there and spam knock rest talk haze, walling all sorts of stuff while removing items and spreading items. I've seen some mentions of protect Muk on discord but I have not found myself in a position where I have had the luxury of using it since it generally needs rest to absorb scalds and sit on mons like Bro and Cune. Anyway, it's a defensive mon which can check a bunch of special attackers, function as a status absorber, and make progress by brainlessly clicking poison touch knock. Would highly recommend using it together with future sight Bro, in particular (notice how everything synergizes with future sight bro btw).
C -> B
Let's raise this mon in the VR. Dumping it into UR doesn't make sense. Offensively, it's decent at making progress with gunk, cc, and sd, whereas sucker is valuable to revenge set up stuff or to clean after an sd (provided things have been sufficiently weakened). Defensively, its ability enables it to function as a vincune counter and beam cune check, and it fully walls CM Bro if tera dark. I've found myself building lots of HO and BO teams with this mon, usually with balloon as the item. Try it, it's cool!
I would only consider using either of these on stall and I don't consider stall to be particularly good (although it is viable). Accordingly, I see no reason for either of these to be in the B ranks. I think it's reasonable to prefer Blissey over Chansey given that HDB is a useful tool for preventing chip but I also think the additional bulk on Chansey is sufficient to give it a niche. Staving off Armarouge is quite important imo and it can trade 1v1 vs a surprising amount of physical attackers, especially post-tera, if need be. The difference in bulk is noticable into mons like Gapdos, Mamo, Lycan, Crawdaunt, Gatr, Azelf/Mew (psyshock), and DD Necrozma, to name a few. You obviously don't want to use Chansey to trade versus these mons unless you're forced to, nor do you want to use the tera unless it's absolutely necessary, but I think it's useful to have the opportunitity to do so.
Diancie is cool, especially into HO. Offensive trick room with meteor beam is a pretty cool mon both for making progress and for cleaning in the end game. It's difficult to build around but in battle it tends to perform decently. Worthy of being ranked.
I don't have any thoughts on anything else atm. Obviously, what I care the most about is the high ranked mons, hence why I mentioned them first.
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yay eifo posted so im not double posting cuz i got more takes I haven't made yet!
-> UR
Get all of these waters off the VR bro. I said to send milotic to C+ and yknow what? I WAS SO LENIENT. Shit doesn't do ass, its a mediocore do-nothing blob that will maybe check a volcanion once and leave you with not impression but questions why you arent using Gastrodon instead the moment you see a magnezone. Shit sucks im sorry. Kingdra and cloyster haven't made tour appearances in eons and Vaporeon is in the same camp. I don't know why we've let milotic in particular stink up the joint in B- of all tiers for this long but can we please be serious and get these off they arent good and havent been good for awhile if ever.
-> A-/B+
This thing isn't like, bad but it just lacks the usage for A rank right now. Gastrodon and Volcanion pmuch entirely destroy any chances of crocune seeing good use, and its slower gameplay is hard to make work in a tier thats so brutally punishing to defense but sucky into offense. Not bad, but this isn't the meta for it. (BAN VOLCANION)
-> B-
Both of these two have been meh in both usage and performance for awhile. I actually like both, and I think more teams should try them out. But at the same time, neither of their best showings can be called B caliber to me. Their use as support options for HO is a joke so offensive sets are your only gig and im sorry these two are not on the same level as Gallade and shit.
-> C
Rain hasn't been good for a long time and I don't think anybody is arguing otherwise. Until Volcanion is gone and Gastrodon stops being borderline forced on teams at times Rain will still be ass. When its gone I'll check back in on Rain and give it its dues but until then yea no they stink.
-> B+
Thought i said this one in my previous post but honestly G-Weezing ban made Gligar feel 20x better to use. Shits nice for offense, full vouch. Soft checks a ton and gives the day its best 7/10 and tells you to stfu if you ask for anything more.
Get all of these waters off the VR bro. I said to send milotic to C+ and yknow what? I WAS SO LENIENT. Shit doesn't do ass, its a mediocore do-nothing blob that will maybe check a volcanion once and leave you with not impression but questions why you arent using Gastrodon instead the moment you see a magnezone. Shit sucks im sorry. Kingdra and cloyster haven't made tour appearances in eons and Vaporeon is in the same camp. I don't know why we've let milotic in particular stink up the joint in B- of all tiers for this long but can we please be serious and get these off they arent good and havent been good for awhile if ever.
This thing isn't like, bad but it just lacks the usage for A rank right now. Gastrodon and Volcanion pmuch entirely destroy any chances of crocune seeing good use, and its slower gameplay is hard to make work in a tier thats so brutally punishing to defense but sucky into offense. Not bad, but this isn't the meta for it. (BAN VOLCANION)
Both of these two have been meh in both usage and performance for awhile. I actually like both, and I think more teams should try them out. But at the same time, neither of their best showings can be called B caliber to me. Their use as support options for HO is a joke so offensive sets are your only gig and im sorry these two are not on the same level as Gallade and shit.
Rain hasn't been good for a long time and I don't think anybody is arguing otherwise. Until Volcanion is gone and Gastrodon stops being borderline forced on teams at times Rain will still be ass. When its gone I'll check back in on Rain and give it its dues but until then yea no they stink.
Thought i said this one in my previous post but honestly G-Weezing ban made Gligar feel 20x better to use. Shits nice for offense, full vouch. Soft checks a ton and gives the day its best 7/10 and tells you to stfu if you ask for anything more.
UR -> at least C but like even C+/B- if you want to group it with the rest of the sun staples.:
This mon is goated on sun, OHKOs pretty much everything besides like blissey w/ tera overheat, even through resists, + not a ton of particularly viable flash fire users to counter it. Realistically I think that it and sun as a playstyle has more of a niche than rain at the moment, does really well into offense and HO and doesn't start crying whenever a gastro or volc pops up. I'd put like ninetales + venusaur up a subrank or two, and have scovillain follow them, maybe a subrank lower just cus it competes with hilli for a slot, but definitely not ur. Probably the most consistent breaker on sun rn.
Alright, post shifts meta VR noms baby! I'm not going to cover everything, as there's alot of things I haven't made up my mind on / tested sufficiently, but these noms I'm atleast confident on as of right now.
UR -> C
Sand as a weather has always been in this tier since Hippowdon dropped, but not much has actual sand abuse been considered. It took awhile, but slowly we've started seeing normal sand balances throw a houndstone on there for offensive pressure. And I have to admit, it works well! Poltergeist rips ass, and the mons that can handle it by resisting / immunities like Bike or Krookodile take hefty chunks from Play rough. Poltergeist can be doubled down on with Tera Ghost, and this also makes shadow sneak much stronger outside of the sand, giving it some extra utility. There's a couple games scattered around of this thing getting use, and I'd have to admit it's got value.
Now that Gapdos has left. We're currently out of an S rank Pokemon, and I'm aware that some people think having zero S ranks is fine if there's no clear winner, but I don't agree with that sentiment. I believe there should always be atleast 1 S ranker, and as such I nominate two pokemon for S rank (Or S-, I'm not fussy.)
A+ -> S rank / S- Rank
I think everybody can generally agree that these are the most splashable Pokemon in this tier. Noivern has been the tiers defacto Defogger for awhile, and even when G-Weezing was still around. Super fang is ridiculously valuable utility, Psychic Noise and Taunt sets are fantastic disruption, and even more aggressive sets like Specs Boomburst have seen usage. As for Slowbro, it needs no introduction. Best physical wall, best CM wincon, future sight bot, just a fantastic defensive cornerstone, no ogerpon. It's a stalwart vs some of the tiers most dangerous problems, and it returning back to S rank would be justified in my eyes.
B+ -> A
B- -> B
UR -> Somewhere.
These mostly speak for themselves I think? Mienshao is the frontrunner threat to take over for Gapdos's departure, and it was always an effective Pokemon even beyond that. Most shifts lately has been to its benefit, and now its poised to be a fantastic attacker. Life orb is ridiculous, scarf is general good stuffs. Infernape meanwhile, people will constantly harp on it but if you think Gapdos, Volcanion and Gyarados leaving means this thing hasn't gotten better you have your head stuck in your ass. You can think it was potential man or w/e before hand but 3 high profile bans have revitalized physical sets, scarf sets and enhanced the previous special attacker sets. Flamigo I honestly need more time to throw a concrete ranking at it, but I know for certain it belongs on the VR, its just where. I want to spitball like.. B. The defensive downgrade is very painful vs stuff like Krookodile, and the stat drop makes it way less effective at forcing holes itself. On the flipside, Roost makes it an actual answer to Wo-Chien, so thats neat.
New -> B-/C+
This one is hard to nail down so far. On one hand, in post Volcanion land this thing has an actual job, and being an offensive sticky webber with strong Water clicks and defensive utility is objectively good. On the flip-side, Gastrodon and Noivern are two rough matchups and this accounts for a large gap in your coverage. Cyclizar teams are your aim, and there it's not bad. Noivern can be broken by investing Tera Water, but you have to sink Tera for that. Overall I'd say this thing is good, but still on the niche side. A very welcomed return.
I have more noms than this, but I'll wait for those. For now, this is enough.
Sand as a weather has always been in this tier since Hippowdon dropped, but not much has actual sand abuse been considered. It took awhile, but slowly we've started seeing normal sand balances throw a houndstone on there for offensive pressure. And I have to admit, it works well! Poltergeist rips ass, and the mons that can handle it by resisting / immunities like Bike or Krookodile take hefty chunks from Play rough. Poltergeist can be doubled down on with Tera Ghost, and this also makes shadow sneak much stronger outside of the sand, giving it some extra utility. There's a couple games scattered around of this thing getting use, and I'd have to admit it's got value.
Now that Gapdos has left. We're currently out of an S rank Pokemon, and I'm aware that some people think having zero S ranks is fine if there's no clear winner, but I don't agree with that sentiment. I believe there should always be atleast 1 S ranker, and as such I nominate two pokemon for S rank (Or S-, I'm not fussy.)
I think everybody can generally agree that these are the most splashable Pokemon in this tier. Noivern has been the tiers defacto Defogger for awhile, and even when G-Weezing was still around. Super fang is ridiculously valuable utility, Psychic Noise and Taunt sets are fantastic disruption, and even more aggressive sets like Specs Boomburst have seen usage. As for Slowbro, it needs no introduction. Best physical wall, best CM wincon, future sight bot, just a fantastic defensive cornerstone, no ogerpon. It's a stalwart vs some of the tiers most dangerous problems, and it returning back to S rank would be justified in my eyes.
These mostly speak for themselves I think? Mienshao is the frontrunner threat to take over for Gapdos's departure, and it was always an effective Pokemon even beyond that. Most shifts lately has been to its benefit, and now its poised to be a fantastic attacker. Life orb is ridiculous, scarf is general good stuffs. Infernape meanwhile, people will constantly harp on it but if you think Gapdos, Volcanion and Gyarados leaving means this thing hasn't gotten better you have your head stuck in your ass. You can think it was potential man or w/e before hand but 3 high profile bans have revitalized physical sets, scarf sets and enhanced the previous special attacker sets. Flamigo I honestly need more time to throw a concrete ranking at it, but I know for certain it belongs on the VR, its just where. I want to spitball like.. B. The defensive downgrade is very painful vs stuff like Krookodile, and the stat drop makes it way less effective at forcing holes itself. On the flipside, Roost makes it an actual answer to Wo-Chien, so thats neat.
This one is hard to nail down so far. On one hand, in post Volcanion land this thing has an actual job, and being an offensive sticky webber with strong Water clicks and defensive utility is objectively good. On the flip-side, Gastrodon and Noivern are two rough matchups and this accounts for a large gap in your coverage. Cyclizar teams are your aim, and there it's not bad. Noivern can be broken by investing Tera Water, but you have to sink Tera for that. Overall I'd say this thing is good, but still on the niche side. A very welcomed return.
I have more noms than this, but I'll wait for those. For now, this is enough.
I can't comment on the other noms, but I can comment about these ones, especially flamigo in particular, having experimented with it quite a bitmIn fact I think B to B- is the perfect ranking to start out for it. It is pretty much the closest replacement to gapdos that you can think of, from it's typing and immunity to intimidate, ability to dominate webs teams, it does all of the same things except it's worse speed is key vs stuff like scarf krook, the noticeable drop in bulk makes it much harder to bring in to battle, and it lacks knock off. It is also a little bit weaker.B+ -> A
B- -> B
UR -> Somewhere.
These mostly speak for themselves I think? Mienshao is the frontrunner threat to take over for Gapdos's departure, and it was always an effective Pokemon even beyond that. Most shifts lately has been to its benefit, and now its poised to be a fantastic attacker. Life orb is ridiculous, scarf is general good stuffs. Infernape meanwhile, people will constantly harp on it but if you think Gapdos, Volcanion and Gyarados leaving means this thing hasn't gotten better you have your head stuck in your ass. You can think it was potential man or w/e before hand but 3 high profile bans have revitalized physical sets, scarf sets and enhanced the previous special attacker sets. Flamigo I honestly need more time to throw a concrete ranking at it, but I know for certain it belongs on the VR, its just where. I want to spitball like.. B. The defensive downgrade is very painful vs stuff like Krookodile, and the stat drop makes it way less effective at forcing holes itself. On the flipside, Roost makes it an actual answer to Wo-Chien, so thats neat.
252 Atk Flamigo Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Noivern: 216-255 (69.4 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Noivern: 229-270 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This isn't a extreme gap, but flamigo is gonna need a little bit more chip damage to get the kills gapdos wouldn't need chip to achieve.
However it still does in fact work, just not up to par as the original. But it does have a couple of tricks gapdos lacked, namely scrappy, Roost, and Swords Dance. Scrappy means you can't just Tera ghost and stop close combat and as a set up move SD gives much more immediately terrifying than bulk up and can capitalize on krookodile with a set like SD/Roost/Acrobatics/Close Combat or agility on more fast paced teams gives you a potent breaker with impeccable coverage or cleaner if you decide to go with agility. With the double dance variant, you go with the more appropriate move to boost with depending on the team. So all in all I think B to B- suits it perfectly.
Infernape losing a form of competition and 3 offensive checks does wonders to improve all of its sets. While it does also compete with entei, I can't really say it's outclassed due to it's secondary stab, knock off, u-turn, switcheroo, and a neutrality to rocks as opposed to being weak to them. This makes it a lot easier to run band as your not losing 25% to rocks AND you have knock off/u-turn, allowing ape to play around potential switch ins.
Mienshao i cannot add onto much more than what you said.
And now for my own nomination
Losing gapdos helped this pokemon lose a form of competition and offensive checks, but I am nomming it higher for the basis of a set I've been using that worked pretty well.
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Quick Attack
This is a set I've been running with pretty good success. Why run this over the SD air balloon set you ask? Simple, the the first biggest advantage running life orb is that it gives terrakion the crucial power boost that allows it to muscle past the pokemon that set could only dream of tearing apart.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Chesnaught: 329-387 (86.5 - 101.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
And if it's Tera ghost, then as little as 2 spikes switch ins mean it dies.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Tera Ghost Chesnaught: 274-324 (72.1 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Hippowdon also cannot handle close combat with 2 spikes switch ins.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 325-383 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And if you can chip slowbro a bit, +2 Stone Edge destroys that.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 286-337 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And even if slowbro and hippo don't end up in those scenarios, now they are in no condition to check other physical attackers, thus terrakion has completed it's duties as a breaker.
The other major advantage is boosting quick attacks power in combination with Tera normal to eliminate faster threats not immune to normal are going to stop a sweep. With Tera normal, faster opponents aren't much of a factor, though some fatter stuff might need chipped a good bit. Though frailer scarfers die +2. And now you get the jump on other priority that isn't extreme speed.
If your doubting the sets effectiveness, here are replays of it in action. Nomming it to b- or even c ranks is extremely harsh.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2452483678
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2452532093
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2450474037
UR -> B/B+I'm honestly a little shocked that this dude isn't on the VR already, and I think that recent tier shifts have benefitted it massively so it definitely deserves some recognition. I think that the meta has and will continue to shift to being more bulky in nature, and Scrafty punishes those comps insanely well. Looking at A rank alone, Scrafty matches up positively into like 90% of these guys. It can very easily trade with a non-tera'd Armarouge, even with endure shenanigans. Bisharp doesn't really want to get near a Drain Punch, and Scrafty can still set up alongside Bisharp if it decides to tera. Rachi doesn't really want to take a Knock Off, Krook is again allergic to Drain Punch and does like 25% with Earthquake. Noivern kinda just gets wrecked by needing to lose it's flying type for recovery, and Slowbro is forced to burn tera in order to deal with it long term. The only real downside to Scrafty is it's abysmal matchup into Fairy coverage, which 1. is only really threatening coming from like 4ish mons which are usually pretty easy to prep for in building, and 2. tera go brr. Like just look at this calc for a reference to its bulk...
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 296-351 (88.6 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
This is probably our most comfortable, and strongest, CC clicker now that Gap is gone and it doesn't even have a super favorable chance to OHKO if Scrafty goes for the Bulk Up. And there's been a lot of shift towards Scarf or PPads on Shao as well, so that helps out Scrafty even more. I think that Scrafty has far too many favorable matchups to be UR, and to be honest, I think B+ might even be a bit low for it, but I digress.
One more add-on, it just serves really phenomenally as a knock switch in too, which I don't think can ever be bad. A-Muk runs(?) in terror of being completely shut down by this dude, same with big Woch. Put my man up there.
Also...
A- -> A. Maybe less necessity here if your iffy on if the subranking is all that meaningful, but I think that a lot of people are starting to realize how cheap Hilli is. It, like a certain flying eel I once knew, kinda just gets to pick and choose its counters, though maybe to less of an extent. Tera Fire synth has been used with more frequency recently to turn Talonflame, a usually decent check, into complete setup fodder. Tera Blast Psychic is also a funny way to give the middle finger to your usual checks of tera'd poison types like Slowbro and Umbreon. IDK, less concerned about the semantics of moving this up a rank, still a really good mon either way, just maybe deserving of a little bit more credit than the rest of its pool.
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Aight, VR Season! It's time I get some more noms out before the update come soon-ish, so here goes.
-> A/A+
This one is mostly self-explanitory. Volcanion rose and this thing reminded everybody what the incarnation of fucking baphomet can really do. You gotta go outta your way to make your bulky squads not lose to this bastard, and its a mon that frustrates all the time. Is it broken? That's another question I lowkey don't have an answer for. But I've seen the allegations. Either way, A- is underselling the hell out of it. Whether A or A+ I don't hugely care, but a raise is in order for sure.
-> A-
Both of these are B+ pokemon I'd give a rise. Porygon-Z is slowly but surely entering the "this mon is horseshit" stage and that's entirely thanks to Tera Blast memes. The moment I laid my eyes on Tera Fairy I was kinda sold as is on this thing being aids, but oh boy guessing what Tera it has to fuck with your checks and its variety in how it boots just makes it fucking lame. I'd rather ban Tera Blast itself, all told. But either way, PZ is too good for B+. Meanwhile the climate of people souring on Noivern and Bike has seen a small uptick in Talonflame. Personally, I think defog talon fucking blows. But as an actual mon, wisp u turn/taunt sets are quite nice. Good mon.
-> C+
-> B-
Next we have a trio of unranked mons. Some of which I've bashed before. I'm sorry vileplume I'll never doubt you again my beloved. Anyways, Grimmsnarl and Vileplume have both seen SCL usages and wins. If richard didn't choke on a million bags of sticks Grimmsnarl would be at 100% winrate alongside Plume but alas. BU rest talk sets w Grimmsnarl are collectively a better Scrafty in almost every context, and they can run away with games by being pretty damn annoying to kill. Vileplume is the Mienshao punker 9000, Effect spore is silly and games like Metallica's last 2 weeks showcase how much this mon can apply pressure and wall annoying guys. Meloetta meanwhile, has no SCL usage but after playing around with it on Ladder combined with running a clinic on Gewwge in a language PL I can say this mon fucking slaps. AV Sets are a nice check to ghosts on offense, and Relic song sleep memes are frankly hilarious to land.
->B-
This mon has been way too high for way too long what the hell is B+ Amoonguss is this a charity? Regenerator is nice, sure. But imo I think it's a sidegrade or tactical downgrade to Plume. It's value is not getting screwed by Defiant/Competitive/Hoodra. That's good. But it also lacks the Effect spore punking value and with Mienshao ruling the fighting pivot spot Helmet doesn't rlly cut it for punishing contact. Not bad but like, B+ is wild for what is, even in an optimistic lens, a glorified side-grade to Plume.
-> B+
Now here's a mushroom that deserves B+. And Crawdaddy. Muk too. Loom has been going crazy lately in tours including SCL. Poison Heal sets keep getting better and better, and Facade spam is ridiculously potent. Mon is just really damn good right now, and B rank is too low. Crawdaunt sash sets have been doing the lords work on HO teams, and even general offense teams have taken a liking to him. Thing is a nuke, and kills almost everything besides a chesnaught and a Wo-chien. Alolan Muk meanwhile has been a staple on stalls / fats for awhile now with resttalk, while being surprisingly annoying to kill / wall. Good SCL usage, better than B ranks not much to say.
Frankly I have a ton more noms than this but I'll handle that one on the actual voting sheet so I hope the litany of frauds in the C ranks are ready for some spring cleaning.
This one is mostly self-explanitory. Volcanion rose and this thing reminded everybody what the incarnation of fucking baphomet can really do. You gotta go outta your way to make your bulky squads not lose to this bastard, and its a mon that frustrates all the time. Is it broken? That's another question I lowkey don't have an answer for. But I've seen the allegations. Either way, A- is underselling the hell out of it. Whether A or A+ I don't hugely care, but a raise is in order for sure.
Both of these are B+ pokemon I'd give a rise. Porygon-Z is slowly but surely entering the "this mon is horseshit" stage and that's entirely thanks to Tera Blast memes. The moment I laid my eyes on Tera Fairy I was kinda sold as is on this thing being aids, but oh boy guessing what Tera it has to fuck with your checks and its variety in how it boots just makes it fucking lame. I'd rather ban Tera Blast itself, all told. But either way, PZ is too good for B+. Meanwhile the climate of people souring on Noivern and Bike has seen a small uptick in Talonflame. Personally, I think defog talon fucking blows. But as an actual mon, wisp u turn/taunt sets are quite nice. Good mon.
Next we have a trio of unranked mons. Some of which I've bashed before. I'm sorry vileplume I'll never doubt you again my beloved. Anyways, Grimmsnarl and Vileplume have both seen SCL usages and wins. If richard didn't choke on a million bags of sticks Grimmsnarl would be at 100% winrate alongside Plume but alas. BU rest talk sets w Grimmsnarl are collectively a better Scrafty in almost every context, and they can run away with games by being pretty damn annoying to kill. Vileplume is the Mienshao punker 9000, Effect spore is silly and games like Metallica's last 2 weeks showcase how much this mon can apply pressure and wall annoying guys. Meloetta meanwhile, has no SCL usage but after playing around with it on Ladder combined with running a clinic on Gewwge in a language PL I can say this mon fucking slaps. AV Sets are a nice check to ghosts on offense, and Relic song sleep memes are frankly hilarious to land.
Meloetta:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-881437
Vileplume:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-881437
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-883030
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-880203
Grimmsnarl:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-883171
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-881437
Vileplume:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-881437
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-883030
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-880203
Grimmsnarl:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ru-883171
This mon has been way too high for way too long what the hell is B+ Amoonguss is this a charity? Regenerator is nice, sure. But imo I think it's a sidegrade or tactical downgrade to Plume. It's value is not getting screwed by Defiant/Competitive/Hoodra. That's good. But it also lacks the Effect spore punking value and with Mienshao ruling the fighting pivot spot Helmet doesn't rlly cut it for punishing contact. Not bad but like, B+ is wild for what is, even in an optimistic lens, a glorified side-grade to Plume.
Now here's a mushroom that deserves B+. And Crawdaddy. Muk too. Loom has been going crazy lately in tours including SCL. Poison Heal sets keep getting better and better, and Facade spam is ridiculously potent. Mon is just really damn good right now, and B rank is too low. Crawdaunt sash sets have been doing the lords work on HO teams, and even general offense teams have taken a liking to him. Thing is a nuke, and kills almost everything besides a chesnaught and a Wo-chien. Alolan Muk meanwhile has been a staple on stalls / fats for awhile now with resttalk, while being surprisingly annoying to kill / wall. Good SCL usage, better than B ranks not much to say.
Frankly I have a ton more noms than this but I'll handle that one on the actual voting sheet so I hope the litany of frauds in the C ranks are ready for some spring cleaning.
Ok I know I'm supposed to be gone and shit but I would like to remind everyone that Amoonguss does have access to Effect Spore as well, contrary to what big Regenerator might want you to believe
It's value is not getting screwed by Defiant/Competitive/Hoodra. That's good. But it also lacks the Effect spore punking value
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Alright, Gapdos, Volcanion, Gyarados and Mamoswine leaving was a big fucking shift, so imma make some noms since the meta is going to shift dramatically.
UR -> C+
Oh right, this. Uh, its alright, volcanion leaving is definetely a benefit to it, but theres still stuff such as slowbro which kinda just perma walls it. Maybe sticky web sets rise up with ice coverage? Not really convinced though tbh, I need to test it more.
B+ -> A
Mienshao is most likely going to take over Gapdos's role as Fighting type scarfer, with its high speed, knock+u-turn and regenerator making it a great pokemon. Half the issue with mienshao was "why don't I just slap a gapdos on instead?" which really hurt it. Now though, mien can stand out as a superior scarfer. Uh, LBN explained it and I'm tired so just put it there, scarf is good, pads is good, LO is good. Just a really good mon.
B -> B+
This technically just dropped to NU, but ladder also has kept chansey in the tier so saying that is reliable would be like asking canard for his opinions on the diversity of HO, which is not reliable at all (sorry bro, still love you). Anyways, now that Gapdos is gone, scarf terrak can also do better, as rock stab is genuinelly good for hitting a lot of the fighting resists in the tier and being faster then mien. Sure, mienshao has ice spinner and stone edge, but when your stone edge does 80% max to vern, I think that its not as great. I've also really been liking SD sub sets, particularly air balloon variants, as if your team doesn't have a stone edge hippo or slowbro, it can be very difficult to answer this. It was a star of my suspect run when I used it on a webs team, so I think SD can be explored more, especially since lycanrocs traits of being flying neutral and priority are less useful now (though obviously the second part is useful). So maybe finally we can stop coping that terrak is bad and use it.
UR -> C
Really shitty gapdos, and no I am not joking around. Yes, the typing is good both defensively and offensively, and having roost is cool, but apart from that this thing is shit. Pretty frail, way too slow (outsped by scarf krook is not good when you are 2HKO'd by gunk shot) and just lacks the damage output that gapdos had. Also not having knock off means against bulkier walls, its not making much progress. I honestly think staraptor is better then this (check CB calcs and holy shit), but thats a discussion for another time. Go into niche territory flamigo, you will stay there forever.
Also no, I am not nomming up infernape, that bum is still bad. When you can fit all the moves you want to actually diversify yourself from mien, you can come to the big boy table. And you prob still get walled by slowbro.
B+ -> A-
Another win for fighting types. The biggest issue with chesnaught was that it was a physical wall that was deathly afraid of gapdos, which is not great though that could be recitified with proper teambuilding. And with the rise of craw and other threats that chesnaught can check incredibly well, this is becoming a pokemon that is better to slap onto teams. Spikes are excellent, iron defense sets are sneakily good at stealing games, and the rare belly drum set can be okay on occasion. This also is very good for stall teams as checking the menace that is crawdaunt will never not be appreciated.
UR -> C
Okay, speaking of grass fighting types, here we have a pokemon that I've been loving recently. Hecidueye combines chesnaughts typing and the ability to defog, which for certain teams is massive, as it gives answers to Pokemon such as crawdaunt, krookodile and bisharp, while removing hazards for teammates. Its basically balance and stall exclusive, though SD sets have seen some use on webs. And ofc, triple arrows is a broken ass move that can just win games if the opponent is slower because why not.
B -> B+
Ngl, somebody commented on why isn't a-muk higher on the VR, and when I thought about it, I genuinelly don't know why. This is basically mandatory on good stall teams it feels like, as its ability to check a litany of special attackers in the tier while also making insane progress with knock off+poison touch, and stopping setup attempts with haze. You can also fit drain punch to make steels hate you, but thats more niche. It can also be used on balance teams as a great stop to threats such as cm slowbro and gengar, though having to rely on rest talk is annoying. Still though, it can overcome this with proper careful play and I think it should be higher because of that.
A -> A-
Now that volcanion is gone, we can finally nom this down. Yes, gyarados leaving means a pokemon which took advantage of gastro is gone, but I would say 50% of the usage gastro had was because of storm drain set being the only good wall into volcanion (tera blast grass sets withstanding, which were becoming more popular ngl), so while it now can solely run sticky hold, theres a lot less reason to slap it onto teams. Now, gastro isn't bad, but theres a lot less reason to use it now, as other ground types can thrive more in a world where checking volcanion isn't the top of your priority list, but I do think a small drop is understandable.
C -> B-/B
Aight, so I'm going to do some vapo gushing about why its so great in the meta (I swear to fucking god if any of yall ping me about Did you know... imma block your ass on discord). Volcanion leaving was the single best thing for it, as no longer is there an omnipresent mon that can use vaporeon as a switchin to start wallbreaking, and while there is technically gastrodon still here, storm drain is most likely going to fall out of favour. This means that Vaporeon can do what Vaporeon does best, walling the hell out of multiple Pokemon. Suicune? Completely walled and just have another thing that can take a scald in a pinch. Slowbro? If you tera dark, you completely sit on it. Bisharp? Does need some careful play, but you can beat that too. Hilligant? Just tera and boom, you beat that too.
C+ -> B-
Idk why this dropped last vr shift, just seems like a case of nobody using it. Anyways, glowbro is like worse slowbro but it counters the hell out of hilligant. If you don't know, this is a pretty big thing. While tera blast psychic sets do chunk it heavily, glowbro can at least put it on a timer with toxic, which limits the amount of ko's it gets. Its also just generally annoying to switch into between toxic+steel/poison detterent move being either earthquake or flamethrower.
Some other noms from pre-shifts that I should have done.
A+ -> A
I've felt this for a while, but IDT bisharp is A+ rn. When I compare it to other A+ mons, all of them are just better, more versatile, or more threatening. Even some A tiers I think are potentially better, but some its better then in that tier too, so I think A tier is perfect for it. Dangerous sweeper but it has pretty consistent answers and really only wins when a team is weakened and it can tera. Only really greedy squads that use regi as the sole bisharp check are still getting punked by this but those are bad for a multitude of a reasons.
B- -> B/B+
Okay, if there is one thing thats been clear in recent meta developments, its that craw stocks are up through the roof. This is primarily due to the innovation of sash craw, which is absolutely amazing at revenge killing pokemon for HO teams while also acting as a standout wallbreaker. But in general, crawdaunt is incredibly effective at making sure any team that doesn't have chesnaught or wo-chien has a rough time. Priority in aqua jet is also a pretty great tool that means crawdaunt can still be effective in offense mus.
UR -> C+/B-
Still don't understand why this isn't ranked. Its probably the best HO lead, tied with Mew. This is primarily for a few reasons. Firstly, the only faster lead is azelf, which while good, doesn't have some traits that make lycanroc stand out. This means its incredibly reliable at denying opposing rocks and getting up its own, which is really great. Secondly, endeavour+accelerock means that it can not only revenge kill setup sweepers if you keep it around, but also can take something down to 1hp then kill it, which is massively valuable. Now, why not use dusk? Well, not only is it faster then dusk, but we have the third and final reason, which may not seem important, but is incredibly valuable, steadfast. Scarf jirachi is a pain for HO leads, as it can potentially flinch them down and deny rocks altogether. There are ofc teammates that can handle it, but you also aren't getting rocks up, and if they are non scarf jirachi, they may have gotten up rocks of there own. With steadfast, jirachi cannot do this. If lycanroc gets flinched, it gets a +1 speed boost, at which point it can either get up stealth rocks or threaten to endeavour the jirachi. This is like, absolutely massive, and means that lycanroc is one of the most reliable suicide leads in the tier. Oh, it was also brought 5 times to SCL, if thats any indication of how good it is.
UR -> C+Oh right, this. Uh, its alright, volcanion leaving is definetely a benefit to it, but theres still stuff such as slowbro which kinda just perma walls it. Maybe sticky web sets rise up with ice coverage? Not really convinced though tbh, I need to test it more.
B+ -> AMienshao is most likely going to take over Gapdos's role as Fighting type scarfer, with its high speed, knock+u-turn and regenerator making it a great pokemon. Half the issue with mienshao was "why don't I just slap a gapdos on instead?" which really hurt it. Now though, mien can stand out as a superior scarfer. Uh, LBN explained it and I'm tired so just put it there, scarf is good, pads is good, LO is good. Just a really good mon.
B -> B+This technically just dropped to NU, but ladder also has kept chansey in the tier so saying that is reliable would be like asking canard for his opinions on the diversity of HO, which is not reliable at all (sorry bro, still love you). Anyways, now that Gapdos is gone, scarf terrak can also do better, as rock stab is genuinelly good for hitting a lot of the fighting resists in the tier and being faster then mien. Sure, mienshao has ice spinner and stone edge, but when your stone edge does 80% max to vern, I think that its not as great. I've also really been liking SD sub sets, particularly air balloon variants, as if your team doesn't have a stone edge hippo or slowbro, it can be very difficult to answer this. It was a star of my suspect run when I used it on a webs team, so I think SD can be explored more, especially since lycanrocs traits of being flying neutral and priority are less useful now (though obviously the second part is useful). So maybe finally we can stop coping that terrak is bad and use it.
UR -> CReally shitty gapdos, and no I am not joking around. Yes, the typing is good both defensively and offensively, and having roost is cool, but apart from that this thing is shit. Pretty frail, way too slow (outsped by scarf krook is not good when you are 2HKO'd by gunk shot) and just lacks the damage output that gapdos had. Also not having knock off means against bulkier walls, its not making much progress. I honestly think staraptor is better then this (check CB calcs and holy shit), but thats a discussion for another time. Go into niche territory flamigo, you will stay there forever.
Also no, I am not nomming up infernape, that bum is still bad. When you can fit all the moves you want to actually diversify yourself from mien, you can come to the big boy table. And you prob still get walled by slowbro.
B+ -> A-Another win for fighting types. The biggest issue with chesnaught was that it was a physical wall that was deathly afraid of gapdos, which is not great though that could be recitified with proper teambuilding. And with the rise of craw and other threats that chesnaught can check incredibly well, this is becoming a pokemon that is better to slap onto teams. Spikes are excellent, iron defense sets are sneakily good at stealing games, and the rare belly drum set can be okay on occasion. This also is very good for stall teams as checking the menace that is crawdaunt will never not be appreciated.
UR -> COkay, speaking of grass fighting types, here we have a pokemon that I've been loving recently. Hecidueye combines chesnaughts typing and the ability to defog, which for certain teams is massive, as it gives answers to Pokemon such as crawdaunt, krookodile and bisharp, while removing hazards for teammates. Its basically balance and stall exclusive, though SD sets have seen some use on webs. And ofc, triple arrows is a broken ass move that can just win games if the opponent is slower because why not.
B -> B+Ngl, somebody commented on why isn't a-muk higher on the VR, and when I thought about it, I genuinelly don't know why. This is basically mandatory on good stall teams it feels like, as its ability to check a litany of special attackers in the tier while also making insane progress with knock off+poison touch, and stopping setup attempts with haze. You can also fit drain punch to make steels hate you, but thats more niche. It can also be used on balance teams as a great stop to threats such as cm slowbro and gengar, though having to rely on rest talk is annoying. Still though, it can overcome this with proper careful play and I think it should be higher because of that.
A -> A-Now that volcanion is gone, we can finally nom this down. Yes, gyarados leaving means a pokemon which took advantage of gastro is gone, but I would say 50% of the usage gastro had was because of storm drain set being the only good wall into volcanion (tera blast grass sets withstanding, which were becoming more popular ngl), so while it now can solely run sticky hold, theres a lot less reason to slap it onto teams. Now, gastro isn't bad, but theres a lot less reason to use it now, as other ground types can thrive more in a world where checking volcanion isn't the top of your priority list, but I do think a small drop is understandable.
C -> B-/BAight, so I'm going to do some vapo gushing about why its so great in the meta (I swear to fucking god if any of yall ping me about Did you know... imma block your ass on discord). Volcanion leaving was the single best thing for it, as no longer is there an omnipresent mon that can use vaporeon as a switchin to start wallbreaking, and while there is technically gastrodon still here, storm drain is most likely going to fall out of favour. This means that Vaporeon can do what Vaporeon does best, walling the hell out of multiple Pokemon. Suicune? Completely walled and just have another thing that can take a scald in a pinch. Slowbro? If you tera dark, you completely sit on it. Bisharp? Does need some careful play, but you can beat that too. Hilligant? Just tera and boom, you beat that too.
C+ -> B-Idk why this dropped last vr shift, just seems like a case of nobody using it. Anyways, glowbro is like worse slowbro but it counters the hell out of hilligant. If you don't know, this is a pretty big thing. While tera blast psychic sets do chunk it heavily, glowbro can at least put it on a timer with toxic, which limits the amount of ko's it gets. Its also just generally annoying to switch into between toxic+steel/poison detterent move being either earthquake or flamethrower.
Some other noms from pre-shifts that I should have done.
A+ -> AI've felt this for a while, but IDT bisharp is A+ rn. When I compare it to other A+ mons, all of them are just better, more versatile, or more threatening. Even some A tiers I think are potentially better, but some its better then in that tier too, so I think A tier is perfect for it. Dangerous sweeper but it has pretty consistent answers and really only wins when a team is weakened and it can tera. Only really greedy squads that use regi as the sole bisharp check are still getting punked by this but those are bad for a multitude of a reasons.
B- -> B/B+Okay, if there is one thing thats been clear in recent meta developments, its that craw stocks are up through the roof. This is primarily due to the innovation of sash craw, which is absolutely amazing at revenge killing pokemon for HO teams while also acting as a standout wallbreaker. But in general, crawdaunt is incredibly effective at making sure any team that doesn't have chesnaught or wo-chien has a rough time. Priority in aqua jet is also a pretty great tool that means crawdaunt can still be effective in offense mus.
UR -> C+/B-Still don't understand why this isn't ranked. Its probably the best HO lead, tied with Mew. This is primarily for a few reasons. Firstly, the only faster lead is azelf, which while good, doesn't have some traits that make lycanroc stand out. This means its incredibly reliable at denying opposing rocks and getting up its own, which is really great. Secondly, endeavour+accelerock means that it can not only revenge kill setup sweepers if you keep it around, but also can take something down to 1hp then kill it, which is massively valuable. Now, why not use dusk? Well, not only is it faster then dusk, but we have the third and final reason, which may not seem important, but is incredibly valuable, steadfast. Scarf jirachi is a pain for HO leads, as it can potentially flinch them down and deny rocks altogether. There are ofc teammates that can handle it, but you also aren't getting rocks up, and if they are non scarf jirachi, they may have gotten up rocks of there own. With steadfast, jirachi cannot do this. If lycanroc gets flinched, it gets a +1 speed boost, at which point it can either get up stealth rocks or threaten to endeavour the jirachi. This is like, absolutely massive, and means that lycanroc is one of the most reliable suicide leads in the tier. Oh, it was also brought 5 times to SCL, if thats any indication of how good it is.
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