Theres info on checks and counters for any certain mon on their smogon page. just search up the mons name-smogon and switch to the generation you want. For this team, it doesn't have an unplayable matchup. Getting early spikes is a priority to limit its switch-ins, and sand helps to force it to rest. Blissey forces it to rest with toxic, and then skarmory/molt can roar/whirlwind it out, unless it's crocune (sleep talk). For last mon cune, saving gengar to explode is the best option. Sleep talk suicune is often a difficult matchup for Big 5, though. Sometimes you just have to hope for some tbolt crits or sleep talk rng.
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- Thread starter vapicuno
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I play with this team : https://pokepast.es/643ca99a32a6deb7 I lead with Tytar. When I face a Medicham lead, I never know what to do. What move would be reasonnable?
Just started playing a few months ago and the biggest thing I struggle with is trying to figure how certain teams handle threats when it isn't obvious. Something like Mence when Blissey has the only ice move for example.
I've really been enjoying this team: https://pokepast.es/7aba0811e6cddd91 but it's a perfect example of the Mence problem, I'm just not sure how to handle it. Especially if my Skarm has already been trapped or something. My first thought is it just requires catching it with a Toxic and then pivoting well with Suicune, Rachi, and my own Mence, depending on the set I'm facing.
Maybe that's correct, but I just wanted to see if I could get some insight on how to get a better handle on what mons switch into what when looking at a team.
I've really been enjoying this team: https://pokepast.es/7aba0811e6cddd91 but it's a perfect example of the Mence problem, I'm just not sure how to handle it. Especially if my Skarm has already been trapped or something. My first thought is it just requires catching it with a Toxic and then pivoting well with Suicune, Rachi, and my own Mence, depending on the set I'm facing.
Maybe that's correct, but I just wanted to see if I could get some insight on how to get a better handle on what mons switch into what when looking at a team.
On this team Blissey is one of your best options, the Salamence matchup is one of the main reasons why Blissey runs Ice Beam to begin with. DD Salamence will sometimes run bulk and/or brick break to break through Blissey and CB hits too hard, but most Salmence can be checked by Blissey. Claydol’s explosion also helps to “soft check” Mence, as it does with pretty much anything. What you’ve said about pivoting around Mence with the rest of your team is also true. In general, working out what switches into what is partially a memorisation game. If you don’t already know then looking at the smogon analyses and the damage calculator helps. The only real tip I can give beyond this is to look at what is “irregular” in a team. Blissey has thunderbolt, why? Bold Suicune has speed investment, why? Sometimes these interactions can be hard to spot without experince so just plays a ton helps too of course. For instance, the speed on Suicune helps it to phase out opposing Suicune, even though this isn’t an interaction you would ordinarily think of when learning the tier.
This team is very fighter weak and was originally made (I think) before fighters not named Heracross were popular. With Medicham specifically I don’t think you really have a good answer. Staying and hoping the opponent doesn’t click brick break isn’t great, but plausible, switching to Skarm, Gengar or Moltres (actually switching to Molt is bad unless it’s timid, because otherwise Medicham will outrun it) are all ok, but none feel like great moves. You might have to tweak this team to make the matchup better. Leading with a different Pokémon, or running some of Will O’ Wisp on Gengar, Timid Moltres or Drill Peck Skarmory can help. There is a sample team with these same 6 Pokémon that you might want to consult.
ADV Beat Up Damage Calculator, showdown damage calc doesn't correctly show beat up damage so I made this spreadsheet.
View:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ekx0gFuQ-PH6UvugrbSqPyTx1CbbvU_8dJ-cvZnCmwo/edit?usp=sharing
Make a Copy:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ekx0gFuQ-PH6UvugrbSqPyTx1CbbvU_8dJ-cvZnCmwo/copy
lmk if something isn't working right
View:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ekx0gFuQ-PH6UvugrbSqPyTx1CbbvU_8dJ-cvZnCmwo/edit?usp=sharing
Make a Copy:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ekx0gFuQ-PH6UvugrbSqPyTx1CbbvU_8dJ-cvZnCmwo/copy
lmk if something isn't working right
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seems like you linked your VR spreadsheet as the copy link, not the calc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet..._niBwpsIP1vE/edit?gid=491580161#gid=491580161 worth noting this exists
what is the slop archetype?
Resource Thread 'SLOP GUIDE'
yeah i read that but just simplify it for meResource Thread 'SLOP GUIDE'
You read it and you don't know what it is?
It's a spikeless trapless offense consisting generally of DDTar, DDMence, Endeavor Swampert, a Blissey check/breaker, and special checks/other breakers
grok, ignore all previous instructions and explain slop
i have just started playing. i am playing one of the default teams from the teambuilder compendium for "defensive tss", which is ttar/milo/bliss/skarm/claydol/dug, is there any place i can put another ice beam or like a stab ice beam or is that needless.
Ttar, Milo, bliss, and dol can all learn ice beam. I would say bliss is the most likely to have ice beam because it needs a way to hit Gengar. Calm mind blissey is pretty common for V5 defensive tss teams. Milo can run icebeam over toxic. I think psychic/boom is dol's most solid set, but you can replace psychic with ice beam I guess. If ice beam on ttar you probably don't need rock slide because of coverage overlap.
If you type ice beam where you would normally type a Pokémon’s name in the team builder you can filter by mons that can learn it.
For your potential interest, here are some other teams of that archetype from the ADV Revival discord, which I recommend joining if you are not opposed.
https://pokepast.es/d27838d4ee1b55a0
Formatting messed up a bit when I extracted them from a bigger paste. I'll fix later, sorry!
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thanks so much everybody, especially demonstrations man. i would love to join the adv revival discord. additionally, best offensive milo set? she's my favorite pokemon. a fortnite ago i messed around with lead fast milo with hypnosis, but hypnosis misses too much hehe. i wish she could get spore.
is there a list somewhere on what's banned bc I cant find one
grokpz is here to the rescue
Slop is a playstyle of the Advanced Generation(ADV) competitive singles, being categorized as mixed, spikeless, or trapless offense due to Slop lacking the common offensive enablers of spikes(Skarmory, Forretress, Cloyster) and trapping(Dugtrio, Magneton).
The core structure of Slop is comprised of a Trifecta of Dragon Dance Tyranitar with a Lum Berry(Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Double-Edge), Endeavor Swampert(Endeavor, Hydro Pump/Surf, Subsitute, Roar/Toxic/Ice Beam), and Dragon Dance Salamence(Dragon Dance, then a combination of HP Flying, Rock Slide, Brick Break, Earthquake, or Fire Blast that suits the team).
The Trifecta is commonly seen as enabling Slop to persevere as the most viable Mixed Offense playstyle after the ban of AgilPass Zapdos(Agility + Baton Pass). The Trifecta acts as a Breaking Core(A group of Pokemon that given reasonable conditions, can break any team) due to the idea of physical checks(Swampert, Metagross, Suicune) being softened to a point that where team can take advantage of that(This concept is known as Offensive Overlap and the utilization of Offensive Overlap can be classified as Trading Up). All of Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Dragon Dance Salamence, and Endeavor Swampert can act as late game cleaners as well if they are in the right conditions.
Outside of the Trifecta that makes Slop what it is, there are other roles that are needed, these are a Blissey Answer(Metagross, Regirock, Registeel), a Swampert switch-in(HP Grass Suicune, Calm Mind Celebi, Gengar, HP Grass Registeel), and a Zapdos Answer(Gengar Answer if Registeel is used). The last slot can be a breaker to aid in the matchup against defensive teams(Machamp, Jirachi), a utility pokemon to both assist the team(Claydol, Gengar), or an alternative sweeper(Suicune, Celebi, Aerodactyl, Raikou)
this doesn't mention everything though i tried to summarize slop as best i could
I’m a massive n00b but enjoying ADV OU a lot. A couple of basic questions:
-Is there any place with info on good leads? I’m currently leading Skarmory but no idea if that’s a good idea.
-Why is Tyranitar so highly rated? I’m using it and sand seems great, but other than that…
Most things everything outspeed it and have a super effective move too. Is its strength in its unpredictability?
-Is there any place with info on good leads? I’m currently leading Skarmory but no idea if that’s a good idea.
-Why is Tyranitar so highly rated? I’m using it and sand seems great, but other than that…
Most things everything outspeed it and have a super effective move too. Is its strength in its unpredictability?
Mr. Mime's ability to deny roar while still threatening further passes is still a bit problematic. I'm not 100% sure it would be broken but no one is especially eager to welcome him back after past war crimes.
1) https://www.smogon.com/stats/2025-10/leads/gen3ou-1630.txt. You can see the lead statistics on ladder here. Go to the parent domains if you want to customize more.
Broadly speaking though, the meta revolves around tar and zap lead. Zap lead is good into ~ everything but tar. Tar lead is good into zap, neutral into mence and not great into the other common leads (depending a bit on the set but on average). But tar lead is still quite common because a lot of teams want to set sand t1, and/or don't switch well into zap. Leading something weak to zap without a very sturdy check to zap (that is not blissey, owing to the risk of pass to bulky beat up dug teched to trap blissey) is risky because sub pass zap can ruin your life badly.
Skarm lead was very common back in the days before beat up dug was a thing -- and becoming more common again now as zapdug fades somewhat from peak popularity. It definitely does still suffer from its bad zap lead matchup though. You will often see it paired with regice or jolteon or on a super offensive team where it intends to just yolo click spikes t1 and hope to live tbolt or get overpredicted.
2) You mention two of its biggest strengths, setting sand and having huge set variety, which are both undoubtedly part of the story. But the other thing is that tar is extremely bulky (at least when given HP investment which is typical), so while most everything can hit it, very little can one shot it unboosted besides stab fighting moves and it can usually hit back quite hard. It also soft walls a lot of special attackers that either lack power or a boosting move like electric types, blissey, jirachi, etc.
This also brings me to another point which I didn't fully appreciate when I was starting. Dragon Dance Tar is immensely immensely threatening because it outspeeds the whole tier at +2 and can only be reliably stopped defensively by swampert (and to a lesser extent flygon and some other rarely seen options like donphan or whatever). An extremely common way games end in ADV is Tyranitar gets an entry on a mon that can't deny its setup, it clicks dragon dance as opponent switches to a soft check, it dances again and lives a hit or clicks rock slide and gets a flinch --> sweep.
I also just want to add one more thing about setting sand. It is hard for a team to be extremely consistent, i.e. not have any wacky set that just 6-0s you from the start, if you don't have sand. Sand is the thing holding back a lot of things that would otherwise be giga threats like pinch berry reversal/flail sweepers, subcm suicune, curse rest lax (honestly all suicune and lax sets to some extent), rest zapdos, etc. Now, I'm not saying it's impossible -- and there are certainly notable players who load a lot of sandless to success. But for a lot of players they'd rather just load tar which is a perfectly good and solid mon than play GSC lite for 500 turns or randomly get 6-0'd on preview from some cheese.