(Attempting To Explain) Multiple Versions in Pokémon In-Universe

[bdt2002]

For the franchise’s entire lifespan dating back to the late 1990s, the mainline Pokémon games, as well as some of the spin-offs, have traditionally been “split” into two (or three in the case of Red, Green, and Blue) different versions. Pokémon’s not the only franchise that’s explored the concept, but it’s arguably the most notable and by far the most successful financially. What started as a desire of game design from Satoshi Tajiri inspired by loot drops in Dragon Quest evolved into the foundation for the entire franchise going forward.

And yet… something still feels like it’s missing to me. One of the things Pokémon has seen inconsistency with over the years is in its world building, and maybe this is just my opinion, but for several years now I’ve been interested in the idea of an in-universe explanation for why most Pokémon games are split into different versions like this. I know the financial incentives for Nintendo and Game Freak, obviously, I’m talking more in the lines of, like, actual game lore.

To my knowledge, out of the nine original releases of Pokémon games as of the release of Scarlet & Violet, only two of the nine “generations” have included some kind of feature that allows players to explore the “opposite” version of their chosen game world; Unova was the first region include something like this in the form of the Entralink, and the second was Alola in the form of the Ultra Wormhole, more specifically the one that you can find at the Altar of the Sunne/Moone to eventually find Cosmog on the other side. There is also a reference to the idea of an alternate world in the Battle Resort in Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire courtesy of some dialogue from Team Magma/Team Aqua. Unfortunately that is the full extent of what I was able to find before making this, and not even Pokémon Legends Arceus features any kinds of lore as far as how that version of Sinnoh/Hisui would have “split off” into the Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl series of events respectively. If anything, the storyline of Legends Arceus lines up more with Pokémon Platinum, seemingly confirming what Sinnoh fans have been saying for over a decade about Platinum bring the one true canon version of the Sinnoh games.

I was hoping either of the Pokémon Legends games we have received thus far would help explain things to me in more detail, but save for one theory I have about the Unova region and Reshiram and Zekrom, hence their Gen 5 sprites being at the top of this post, everything else I can think of is either entirely speculatory or has already been shot down in one way or another, and even my theory about Unova is leaning dangerously close to wishlisting so I won’t be posting that here. (It’s a real shame, too, that theory would be perfect for the Legends game we never got.) But what do you guys think? Do you think these games have any in-universe explanations for this phenomenon? Again, I’m not taking gameplay or financial incentive, I’m strictly talking canon, confirmed lore here. I’m looking forward to seeing what you have to say and enjoy discussion-style threads like these anyway.

 

[Esserise]

I think they basically covered all the bases of this between ORAS and USUM when they confirmed that the games occupy a multiverse.

It’s just the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. Little variations in chance cause new universes to branch off from one another. Thus, every game version — every individual save file, even — can happen in its own universe. There are even universes that represent events we can’t actually experience for ourselves as players, like the worlds that Team Rainbow Rocket’s members come from, in which they each succeeded in their respective plans, or the Ultra Ruin, where Hau’oli City suffered cataclysmic destruction.

Edit: Also, as far as Platinum being the “true canon version” of the Sinnoh games goes (and setting aside the fact that the establishment of a multiverse means there’s no real point in nailing down a single canonical version anyway), I would say that while I do think BW and Legends: Arceus are consciously referencing Platinum, they’re also just vague enough to where you can contrive a reading that allows those references to tie into Diamond or Pearl (Brilliance and Shine levels at your own discretion) instead. Cynthia only said you remind her of the Trainer that faced Giratina, which you can still do in DP, just without Cynthia being personally involved — but who’s to say Lucas/Dawn couldn’t just tell her about their encounter later on?

Similarly, with Platinum setting up Giratina’s interference in Cyrus’s plan, we should also remember that DP end the Galactic plot with a soft cliffhanger in which Cyrus merely storms off, swearing to make the world his own eventually. In theory, he could attempt something else in the future that ends up drawing Giratina’s attention. Or maybe he doesn’t, and in DP’s version of events, that setup from Legends: Arceus just goes unfulfilled. Legends: Arceus ultimately just supplies some additional context behind why Giratina would intervene in a scenario in which events were to play out as we saw in Platinum.

Lastly, I want to note that alongside its references to Platinum, Legends: Arceus also references BDSP in a few certain ways. Which I feel lends to my own impression that Game Freak view the Pokémon game canon as being more like a big multiversal soup from which anything can be fished out.

 

[doipy hooves]

I made a post in the Mysteries and Conspiracies thread in 2022 among similar veins about when the games specifically address the other versions in-universe, so I'll add on what I have there that you don't have already.

In HGSS, according to Mr. Pokemon through Professor Oak, the difference between the version-exclusive Hoenn legendary that shows itself to HG/SS players is specifically because of the colours of their spirits/hearts being shining-silver or golden, alluding more to the nature of the protagonist's soul being a noticeable difference/factor more so than the entire universe changing around it. Still, he acknowledges obtaining the opposite legendary from the Embedded Tower as a possibility albeit "difficult" alone.

Professor Oak: It's not hard to imagine
that the Blue Orb will make KYOGRE
appear at the Embedded Tower...
However, according to Mr. Pokémon,
KYOGRE does not show itself to
Trainers with shining-silver spirits,
but only to those with golden hearts.
It may be difficult for you alone to
accomplish this, [Name].
But if you manage to obtain a KYOGRE
that came from the Embedded Tower,
please do come and show me both
legendary Pokémon!
I will then share with you the rest
of the Hoenn myth!

BW also had a sidequest where you need to trade a Pokemon with Charge from the opposite game in Opelucid City in order to power a time machine to connect both worlds, and the implication is that the past/future styles of the city are in the literal past/future where the same father/inventor is on one side and his grown-up son is on the other (with the same names), so the events of Black and White technically might have happened a literal generation apart between worlds if you take that sidequest literally.

The relevant script lines can be found here: https://abcboy101.github.io/poke-corpus/#file=bw.script.135

 

[Castersvarog]

For stuff like the different Mons (Minus the Legendaries because those have a lot more happening) not being present in certain versions I've always imagined it as basic migration. In the (Fire)Red universe mons like Ekans, Scyther and Growlithe have migrated in while Sandshrew, Scyther and Vulpix have migrated out of those areas during that time, and vice versa in the (Leaf)Green universe.

 

[bdt2002]

I mentioned in the OP that I have a fan theory about Reshiram and Zekrom’s role into this whole thing, but prior to Gen 5, I think the foundation Game Freak was trying to set up with each game version being its own thing was pretty set-in-stone. You had Kanto leading into Johto, Hoenn leading into Sinnoh albeit not directly like Kanto did, and for each of these regions there was three parallel worlds. The easiest of the three to piece together seems to be what I’ll refer to as the “True Version”, referring to Emerald, Platinum, and eventually splits off into Gen 5. There’s also a very high chance the Colloseum series and the Ranger series both fit into the “True Version” based on various context clues, but that’s beside the point.

The main reason I wanted to make a follow-up post, aside from acknowledging I like a lot of what you guys have come up with so far (also, how did I miss that bit in HeartGold & SoulSilver?), was that there seems to be a pattern with which versions have which version exclusives. I will admit Castersvarog beat me to the punch on this a little bit and that’s what reminded me to post this, but nonetheless, the way version exclusives are laid out in Gens 1-4 (plus BDSP for the most part) seems to look something like this:

• World A: Red, Silver, Ruby, FireRed, Diamond, SoulSilver
• World B: Green/Blue, Gold, Sapphire, LeafGreen, Pearl, HeartGold

The idea that the “worlds” line up like this is further supported by more hints out of Platinum, namely Prof. Oak’s appearance and an NPC that still refers to the Bell Tower as the Tin Tower, suggesting Platinum and the Johto remakes don’t take place in the same world as each other and would thus explain how people like the Frontier Brains and Prof. Oak can seemingly be in two places at once. Furthermore, the pairings of Latias/Latios and Kyogre/Groudon in HeartGold & SoulSilver also match up with where they were “placed” in Ruby & Sapphire.

Starting in the Unova games but especially on the 3DS, which version exclusives were paired with who and where those pairs were placed started to change significantly. With the exception of some of the Legendaries in Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire, specifically all of the ones coming from other dimensions, most version exclusives from Gen 5 onwards tend to follow the classic “Version A-Version B” pattern Pokémon is so well known for, including the Legendary pairs in DLC expansions:

• Version A: Black, Black 2, X, Sun/Ultra Sun, Sword, Scarlet
• Version B: White, White 2, Y, Moon/Ultra Moon, Shield, Violet

 

[R_N]

The idea that the “worlds” line up like this is further supported by more hints out of Platinum, namely Prof. Oak’s appearance and an NPC that still refers to the Bell Tower as the Tin Tower, suggesting Platinum and the Johto remakes don’t take place in the same world as each other and would thus explain how people like the Frontier Brains and Prof. Oak can seemingly be in two places at once.

You should absolutely not use this as evidence for an already tenuous theory. The name never changed in Japanese. Chances are at the time they localized Platinum, the HGSS localization wasn't ready to start at all and thus no point to change the name.

Also, for the instance of Oak in particular, there is no reason to think that he can't just travel around. He is only stuck in one place for the sake of gameplay.
Similar thoughts goes to any cameo.

 

[Esserise]

Also, for the instance of Oak in particular, there is no reason to think that he can't just travel around.

Especially since, even if we were to take the games’ depiction of transit infrastructure 100% literally (meaning no airports or train stations in Sinnoh from which one could arrive from Kanto (although this is purely a though experiment since Skyla alludes to being able to fly her plane to both Kanto and Sinnoh in BW, implying that both regions can receive incoming flights)), he would still only be about a half a day’s length away from Sinnoh by boat.

The Frontier Brains are a little trickier if you want to take them at the face value of appearing in both Johto and Sinnoh, but:

1. Although I typically argue against this reading myself, a lot of fans consider battle facilities to be at least some degree of non-canonical, which I think is a point that’s worth considering as I can at least see why people tend to come to that conclusion. In particular, I think one could reasonably argue that the Battle Frontier’s appearance in Platinum has more canonical “weight” since it’s more closely connected to Sinnoh’s characters (Palmer is Barry’s dad, and the stat Trainer partners all appear there), whereas in HGSS it’s just sort of plunked down to replace/beef up the original Battle Tower from Crystal since the assets were all already made.

2. I’ve always felt that with the games that take place “at the same time,” it’s not so much that they’re happening in perfect synchronicity, but are probably more like… within 18 months of each other or so. The Johto and Sinnoh chronology especially seems like kind of a haze if you look at all of the data points:

- There’s the Red Gyarados “report” at the start of DPP, but it’s a common misconception that this is a live news report — an NPC elsewhere in the game clarifies that it’s actually a documentary that was spurred on by the rumors of the Red Gyarados, so it’s something that would have likely required planning, travel time, and post-production before making it to air.

- Jasmine has a chronological sequence across the two regions. She appears at Sunyshore in DPP and can participate in Contests with a male Steelix named Rusty, but in HGSS, after you’ve won all 16 Badges, she can be found having a conversation with Erika about wanting to go enter a Contest in Sinnoh. Later on, she can trade the player a male Steelix named Rusty. This would imply that 99% of Johto’s main and post-game story has to happen before Lucas/Dawn arrive at Sunyshore City in DPP.

- Similarly, Maylene can appear at the Pokéathlon in HGSS, using a Meditite and Machoke on her team. This matches her initial Gym battle team in DPP, but Platinum also has the Battleground in the post-game, and by that point, they’ve (seemingly, as they could in theory be different specimens) evolved into Medicham and Machamp. So it’d make sense for Maylene to be in Johto first, and then return to Sinnoh a little later in time for Lucas/Dawn’s adventure.

- On the flipside of all this, Cynthia appears in the Sinjoh Ruins event in HGSS and already knows about Giratina and it being associated with antimatter, whereas Giratina’s existence was unknown until the events of DPP. So this part of HGSS has to come after the climax of the Sinnoh story has occurred.

Thus, it’s probably more accurate to say that parts of the Johto story are contemporaneous with the Sinnoh story. And once you’ve established that, it’s easy enough to say that Prof. Oak likely just traveled to Sinnoh (as he only appears in the post-game of DPP) after most of the Johto/Kanto story is finished, and that the Frontier Brains might take shifts between the two Battle Frontiers periodically.

 

[bdt2002]

Okay, so I fact checked myself after I sent that last post through, and yeah, I’m an idiot, R_N and Esserise had it right. My apologies to the both of you. I admit my theories are… strange sometimes. failed to recognize the dialogue about the Tin Tower is also in the Diamond & Pearl versions (haven’t checked to see if they kept this in BDSP), but the important part is that would shoot down what I said about Platinum even if the language translation part wasn’t a factor. I’ll also acknowledge that Prof. Oak could travel between Sinnoh and Kanto/Johto if we assume that the timeline works as we’ve been told it does (Gens 1/3 —> Gens 2/4).

The Gen 4 Battle Frontier is the only thing I still have questions about. Just like Prof. Oak, I’m sure the Frontier Brains are capable of traveling, but what bothers me more is the idea of two of each battle facility existing- for example, if Darach and Caitlin go from the Sinnoh Battle Castle to the Johto one for whatever reason, say, a business trip, who’s left in charge of the Sinnoh facility while they’re absent? Hoenn’s Battle Frontier doesn’t have this problem since it’s just the one in Emerald and there’s not one in FireRed & LeafGreen. I like what Esserise suggested about them maybe taking different shifts, but as far as I know the game never elaborates on who would cover those shifts.

 

[R_N]

Okay, so I fact checked myself after I sent that last post through, and yeah, I’m an idiot, R_N and Esserise had it right. My apologies to the both of you. I admit my theories are… strange sometimes. failed to recognize the dialogue about the Tin Tower is also in the Diamond & Pearl versions (haven’t checked to see if they kept this in BDSP), but the important part is that would shoot down what I said about Platinum even if the language translation part wasn’t a factor. I’ll also acknowledge that Prof. Oak could travel between Sinnoh and Kanto/Johto if we assume that the timeline works as we’ve been told it does (Gens 1/3 —> Gens 2/4).

The Gen 4 Battle Frontier is the only thing I still have questions about. Just like Prof. Oak, I’m sure the Frontier Brains are capable of traveling, but what bothers me more is the idea of two of each battle facility existing- for example, if Darach and Caitlin go from the Sinnoh Battle Castle to the Johto one for whatever reason, say, a business trip, who’s left in charge of the Sinnoh facility while they’re absent? Hoenn’s Battle Frontier doesn’t have this problem since it’s just the one in Emerald and there’s not one in FireRed & LeafGreen. I like what Esserise suggested about them maybe taking different shifts, but as far as I know the game never elaborates on who would cover those shifts.

I mean if we insist on seeing the Johto Frontier as absolutely in canon*, then the easiest explanation is just they close the facility for the day(s). It is fashioned after a theme park. Rides close sometimes. Maybe it's seasonal! Someone can't be available all the time. Thanks to Z-A we even know that they closed the Battle Subway when Ingo went missing, and reopened it recently (presumably when he returned) rather than just replace it or having Emmet handle everything.
Alternatively they dont have the Brains in but you can just build up normal streaks. Make an appointment for the print battle later. Get a fast pass.



*Which for the Johto Frontier in particular its like....I don't think it ever gets referenced directly. I dont' think even Masters brings it up, even as a passing reference. Apparently Adventures wrote it off as saying it used to be located in johto but that's its own thing and Adventures is a slave to trying to shove as much from the games as possible at all times

 

[doipy hooves]

*Which for the Johto Frontier in particular its like....I don't think it ever gets referenced directly. I dont' think even Masters brings it up, even as a passing reference. Apparently Adventures wrote it off as saying it used to be located in johto but that's its own thing and Adventures is a slave to trying to shove as much from the games as possible at all times

I'm not even going to get too into Masters's merged multiverse continuity but the Johto Frontier has been brought up once by Dahlia in an event conversation in 2024.

images

 

[Esserise]

I mean if we insist on seeing the Johto Frontier as absolutely in canon*, then the easiest explanation is just they close the facility for the day(s). It is fashioned after a theme park. Rides close sometimes. Maybe it's seasonal! Someone can't be available all the time. Thanks to Z-A we even know that they closed the Battle Subway when Ingo went missing, and reopened it recently (presumably when he returned) rather than just replace it or having Emmet handle everything.
Alternatively they dont have the Brains in but you can just build up normal streaks. Make an appointment for the print battle later. Get a fast pass.



*Which for the Johto Frontier in particular its like....I don't think it ever gets referenced directly. I dont' think even Masters brings it up, even as a passing reference. Apparently Adventures wrote it off as saying it used to be located in johto but that's its own thing and Adventures is a slave to trying to shove as much from the games as possible at all times

This is pretty much what I was going to suggest, that the two Frontiers don’t stay open concurrently. (Or if they do, they could just operate without the usual Brains — I’m reminded somewhat of the Black Tower / White Treehollow after you defeat Benga for the first time; subsequent runs done in the opposite game’s facility replace him with a generic high-level Veteran.)

For what it’s worth though, to add on to what doipy hooves said, there is one reference to the Johto Frontier in B2W2. At the villa in Undella, Caitlin can say, “Tell me something. Are you familiar with Battle Castles? You can find them in Johto and Sinnoh, so challenge them to improve yourself."

 

[R_N]

I'm not even going to get too into Masters's merged multiverse continuity but the Johto Frontier has been brought up once by Dahlia in an event conversation in 2024.

images

View attachment 791850View attachment 791851
View attachment 791852View attachment 791853

This is pretty much what I was going to suggest, that the two Frontiers don’t stay open concurrently. (Or if they do, they could just operate without the usual Brains — I’m reminded somewhat of the Black Tower / White Treehollow after you defeat Benga for the first time; subsequent runs done in the opposite game’s facility replace him with a generic high-level Veteran.)

For what it’s worth though, to add on to what doipy hooves said, there is one reference to the Johto Frontier in B2W2. At the villa in Undella, Caitlin can say, “Tell me something. Are you familiar with Battle Castles? You can find them in Johto and Sinnoh, so challenge them to improve yourself."

This is what I get for only checking Palmer, Thorton & Argenta's. "Well if 3 of them don't mention there's no way the other 3 do...."

 

[doipy hooves]

For stuff like the different Mons (Minus the Legendaries because those have a lot more happening) not being present in certain versions I've always imagined it as basic migration. In the (Fire)Red universe mons like Ekans, Scyther and Growlithe have migrated in while Sandshrew, Scyther and Vulpix have migrated out of those areas during that time, and vice versa in the (Leaf)Green universe.

I was reminded of another point towards version exclusives being indirectly acknowledged as rarer Pokemon in-universe with Collector Hector in RS/ORAS and somewhat Emerald. This post sums it up pretty well.

It's not strictly asymmetrical though because it's specifically balanced out by Lunatone and Solrock having the same setup - Lunatone is only in Sapphire while Solrock is in both Ruby and Emerald. Yeah it sucks if you didn't play Ruby, but it... sucks equally for those who didn't play Sapphire (though I do really like Zangoose so I share your pain)

However this does remind me of something that's always irritated me about those two - there's a Collector in the Hoenn games on Route 115 who brags "check it out, I've got a rare Pokemon!" He has one Pokemon on his team: in (Omega) Ruby he has a Seviper, while in (Alpha) Sapphire he has a Zangoose, making his claim actually completely accurate - being version-exclusives, they're beyond rare in the titles they're not in, practically mythical in fact. He's notable for being one of a very few ordinary NPCs to have a different team based on the version, which is cool.

So how did Emerald handle this? Well, since Zangoose is absent from Emerald you'd think he'd just have that - but no, he has both. Stupid.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I was reminded of another point towards version exclusives being indirectly acknowledged as rarer Pokemon in-universe with Collector Hector in RS/ORAS and somewhat Emerald. This post sums it up pretty well.

HA I was actually going to respond to this thread but when I was writing a response I was like "nah, everyone else pretty much nailed it". Esserise's first response in particular sums up my thoughts. Like, Platinum is the canon version... in BW. Later entries refer to DP more overtly instead, much as Emerald is broadly taken as the canon version but HGSS has Steven call himself "the Champion of Hoenn".

And yes it's possible that it's simply the case that "once a champion, you're always the champion" but that's not really the impression the older games give - Lance calls the player "the new champion" after they defeat him - and for the sake of clarity it's weird to say "the" champion if you're not the incumbent. That'd be like calling Tony Blair "the Prime Minister"; like yes people would probably understand what you meant but it'd be a weird turn of phrase. That or we can assume Steven won the title back at a later point.

There's a million examples of this sort of thing, but one other that springs to mind is a Backpacker in B2W2 who says "the Mirage Tower in Hoenn has disappeared" which you could either take as "it crumbled away after Brendan/May explored it" or "it's sometimes there and sometimes not, and it hasn't been sighted for a number of years now". Therefore, in the RS timeline it simply never shows up.

For stuff like the different Mons (Minus the Legendaries because those have a lot more happening) not being present in certain versions I've always imagined it as basic migration. In the (Fire)Red universe mons like Ekans, Scyther and Growlithe have migrated in while Sandshrew, Scyther and Vulpix have migrated out of those areas during that time, and vice versa in the (Leaf)Green universe.

To expand on the version exclusivity thing, I always viewed that as to do with luck rather than a literal absence, because your rival is able to catch a Growlithe in Pokemon Blue (etc) so it can't be that Growlithe doesn't exist in Kanto in that game. NPCs who want to trade frequently ask for a common Pokemon available nearby (like the boy in Violet City who wants a Bellsprout, or the girl in Vermilion who wants a Spearow) so my impression was that they'd just been extremely unlucky and never found one. Therefore, it's not that Oddish is literally nowhere to be found in Kanto if you're playing LeafGreen, it's just that through happenstance the player never finds one.

Amusingly a recent exchange I had with a friend sums up this idea: we both play Pokemon Go and I asked if he'd trade me a shiny Petilil since I didn't have one. His response was "you need shiny Petilil? That's a really common shiny" and I said "...well, not for me, clearly."

 

[Ironmage]

On a tangential note, I wonder how the Battle Castle(s) dealt with Caitlin going off and becoming an Unova Elite Four. Even if being an E4 isn't a full-time job, the commute is probably unworkable. A different princess? A lookalike actor? An animatronic? Just having Darach do everything guest-facing?

 

[QuentinQuonce]

On a tangential note, I wonder how the Battle Castle(s) dealt with Caitlin going off and becoming an Unova Elite Four. Even if being an E4 isn't a full-time job, the commute is probably unworkable. A different princess? A lookalike actor? An animatronic? Just having Darach do everything guest-facing?

I would have assumed she'd have stepped down from her duties there. In HGSS, Janine tells the player that being a member of the Elite Four is a 24-hour job ("I'm on my way to my dad's house to give him his lunch. The Elite Four has no time to rest, day or night. It's such hard work, you know?"), something L:Z-A would seem to corroborate since Siebold steps down from his position to focus on being a chef; presumably he can't do both jobs like the Gym Leaders are shown to. Since her dialogue confirms that the Castles are still up and running by the time of B2W2 (and her mentioning that Darach travelled all the way to Unova just to clean her villa), Darach probably runs them entirely on her behalf.